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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Chronic Apathy on September 23, 2008, 12:51:21 PM

Title: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Chronic Apathy on September 23, 2008, 12:51:21 PM: Quote
Type: Site • Brigade: Green • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: This Site may hold one Lost Soul for each Babylonian Site in play. • Identifiers: Babylonia • Verse: Daniel 5:3 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 5)

I have Babylon and Babylonian Banquet Hall in my territory, can I place one or two LS in BBH? It doesn't say additional, so I wanted to make sure. Also, Babylon isn't listed in the REG. It's mentioned, but not actually present.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: TimMierz on September 23, 2008, 12:53:07 PM: Babylon (1 Babylonian Site)
+ Babylonian Banquet Hall (1 Babylonian Site)
= 2 Babylonian Sites in play.

BBH can hold 2 souls in this arrangement.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Chronic Apathy on September 23, 2008, 12:54:40 PM: Ah, alright, thanks.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 23, 2008, 02:19:10 PM: Only cards with SA's are in the REG.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Ryupeco11 on March 24, 2009, 09:42:44 PM: I have a question regarding Babylonian Banquet Hall(BBH) sorta pertaining to this.
I know if I have BBH and two babylon's in my territory then BBH can hold 3 lost souls. so lets say I put 3 lost souls in there and make a rescue attempt. If my opponent is able to discard one of my babylon sites I would then only have two babylon sites in play. what whould happen to the 2 lost souls in BBH?
Would I have to remove one lost soul immediately or could all 3 stay in there until two of them are rescued then I could only add 1 additionally lost soul?
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: crustpope on March 24, 2009, 10:09:29 PM: I would say so. When a site is discarded, then the LS is always kicked out to the general land of bondage. Id BBH's ability is ongoing, then any change to its status would also, IMO immediately effect its ability to hold a certain # of LS's.

but then again if I get to choose which site is discarded, I would probably target BBH in the first place ;)
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 24, 2009, 10:11:32 PM: I think the LS stays in BBH. The SA only regulates when a LS can be put into BBH. There is no "check" during each new turn for whether they can stay.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Bryon on March 25, 2009, 02:58:34 AM: I agree with YMT. If you put a lost soul in a site, it can only be removed by being rescued, or by the site leaving play, or by a special ability that removes a lost soul from a site. I think that's it.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Gabe on March 25, 2009, 08:46:31 AM: I'm going to disagree with YMT and Bryon, which means I'm probably wrong. :P

BBH says "This Site may hold one Lost Soul for each Babylonian Site in play."

If it said "You may place a Lost Soul in this site for each Babylonian Site in play" then I'd agree. But the ability specifies what BBH can hold, not what can be placed there. It seems like the ability to "hold" is dynamic and ongoing (as long as the site is occupied).

I did find the following quote that seems related to YMT and Bryon's response.

Quote from: Redemption® Rulebook > Diagram of a Turn > Preparation Phase
Once a site is occupied, neither the Lost Soul nor the site can be moved until the Lost Soul is rescued or discarded.

We know that this quote is only true of game rules. It's trumped when a special abiilty can remove a Lost Soul from a site, like Panic Demon (brown) or Lost Soul (site remove - Matthew 8:34).

I don't understand why BBH's ability would allow additional LSs to be added (when another Babyonian Site is put in play) but not force a LS to be removed (if a Babyonlian Site is removed from play).
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: TimMierz on March 25, 2009, 10:21:24 AM: I believe I agree with Gabe. There is a distinction between BBH's "hold" ability and something like the Site Doubler's "place" ability ("This Lost Soul may be placed in a Site currently occupied by one Lost Soul."). At any time there are fewer Babylonian sites in play than there are Lost Souls in BBH, souls must be removed. Same if BBH's special ability is negated.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Bryon on March 25, 2009, 10:27:14 AM: I was initially going to disagree with YMT, but the ruling on the site doubler + exchanger changed my mind. However, Tim's post just clarified the difference: "Hold" vs. "place."

Therefore, I'm back on the side of Gabe/Tim. Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: crustpope on March 25, 2009, 04:04:10 PM: yay, I was actually right for once! woohoo! I must mark this day in history and create parades in my honor!
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: SirNobody on March 25, 2009, 04:16:56 PM: Hey,

A "hold" ability is just a "place" ability in disguise. This was discussed by the PTB shortly after nationals 2008 and will be addressed more clearly in the next update to the REG.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: sk on March 25, 2009, 04:28:11 PM: Will this update come prior to Nats?
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: SirNobody on March 25, 2009, 09:36:50 PM: Hey,

Quote from: sk on March 25, 2009, 04:28:11 PM
Will this update come prior to Nats?

I sure hope so.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Babylonian Banquet Hall
Post by: Ryupeco11 on March 27, 2009, 02:51:15 PM: ok thanks alot I thought thats how it was played but I wanted to make sure. ^_^