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Arrogance (Pa)Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may play as many evil enhancements as desired. Initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements. • Play As: Holder may play as many evil enhancements as desired [play an enhancement]. Initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon, Connected with David • Verse: I Samuel 17:43-44 So I was wondering that if since it says that initiative doesn't pass until you're done does that mean that if you discard the hero in battle they don't have initiative to negate it? I'm assuming that they can but I just wanted to double check that.
Interrupt the battle interrupts the following: Your opponent’s special abilities that are (1) causing you to be losing by removal (e.g., your opponent’s Net (BL)), or (2) causing a mutual destruction by mutual removal (e.g., your opponent’s King Zimri (Ki) but not your own King Zimri (Ki)). The last enhancement played in battle, as long as it was played by an opponent (e.g., your opponent’s False Peace (Pr) but not your own Reach of Desperation (Wo)). ALL ongoing special abilities (see Ongoing Abilities).
The search function is broken, but we've had plenty of arguments over this card in the past.I'm still not really sure how it works.
Quote from: SirNobody on July 23, 2009, 04:49:51 PMArrogance is like Babel for enhancements. You choose a certain number of enhancements to play put them all into play at once, they then take effect in the order you choose. Once the last enhancement completes you determine initiative normally (giving a character the opportunity to negate their own removal from battle if that is applicable).I asked Mike to include a Play As for Arrogance in the REG update that is coming out this weekend. If things go smoothly come Monday Arrogance will have the play as, "Holder may play X enhancements." With the new identifier: "X = any number that holder chooses"
Arrogance is like Babel for enhancements. You choose a certain number of enhancements to play put them all into play at once, they then take effect in the order you choose. Once the last enhancement completes you determine initiative normally (giving a character the opportunity to negate their own removal from battle if that is applicable).I asked Mike to include a Play As for Arrogance in the REG update that is coming out this weekend. If things go smoothly come Monday Arrogance will have the play as, "Holder may play X enhancements." With the new identifier: "X = any number that holder chooses"
Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on May 31, 2012, 05:36:28 PMThe search function is broken, but we've had plenty of arguments over this card in the past.I'm still not really sure how it works.This is what Gabe posted the last time this came up, quoting an even older post:Quote from: Gabe on August 26, 2011, 04:46:38 PMQuote from: SirNobody on July 23, 2009, 04:49:51 PMArrogance is like Babel for enhancements. You choose a certain number of enhancements to play put them all into play at once, they then take effect in the order you choose. Once the last enhancement completes you determine initiative normally (giving a character the opportunity to negate their own removal from battle if that is applicable).I asked Mike to include a Play As for Arrogance in the REG update that is coming out this weekend. If things go smoothly come Monday Arrogance will have the play as, "Holder may play X enhancements." With the new identifier: "X = any number that holder chooses"
Just end the chain with an end-the-battle card and they can't negate anything.
Quote from: Minister Polarius on June 01, 2012, 05:31:01 PMJust end the chain with an end-the-battle card and they can't negate anything.You'd need a multi brigade character to do that.
Well, the plan is to play Arrogance on a Babylonian and then play Mask of Worldliness which allows you to play enhancements of any brigade
Momentum Change and then something like Belshazzar's Banquet to discard the evil character and protect the souls.
i always thought that with arogance, you played them as you would if it was your iniciaive untill you passed it.
Well the specific wording on the card is "Holder may play as many enhacements as desired, initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements." thats the part that always made me think that.
Well, based on the "Play As" that was suggested, wouldn't X be dynamic? Could I then change X as my turn progresses?
Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 03, 2012, 10:13:36 AMWell, based on the "Play As" that was suggested, wouldn't X be dynamic? Could I then change X as my turn progresses?No. Or at least "no" based on Sir Nobody's ruling (for which the play as you are referencing is a part).If the proposed play as were the only thing we had, that would be a valid possible interpretation. The thing is that this interpretation is in direct conflict with the description given immediately prior of choosing all enhancements, putting them in play at once and then activating them in any chosen order.
That play as would sound more like an errata. But YMT is correct, X is always dynamic. So yes X would change because of that. Also, I don't think X can be something that is your option.
X is only dynamic as a strength or toughness, but not as part of a special ability. Abilities activate when you play the card, so the X of the "play as" would not activate, change, reactivate... But either way, I agree that this whole subject needs some clarification.
Redoubter, your correct, X is dynamic. The Zebulun ruling explained that X is always dynamic, but if the effect is completed, you can't do anything else, (ie If another Babylonian is played after Head of Gold completed, I can't capture another Human, even though X has increased) I could back that up, if the Search option worked...
X is dynamic when it's defined by a dynamic circumstance. When X is whatever you choose, you get to choose it once.
Although... Is there anything stopping me from choosing X = 100, and that way if I draw cards with Dream or Swift Horses, I can play more enhancements?
If one of the enhancements you choose to play with Arrogance is Swift Horses, you still get to play another enhancement due to SH's play ability (which is part of SH resolving which, in turn, is part of Arrogance resolving). There isn't a problem unless you draw 2 enhancements you want to play, and even then you shouldn't be complaining as you've already plopped Arrogance and are no doubt messing thoroughly with your opponent.
Quote from: jmhartz on June 05, 2012, 08:07:30 AMAlthough... Is there anything stopping me from choosing X = 100, and that way if I draw cards with Dream or Swift Horses, I can play more enhancements?No. By the current wording of the ruling, you choose X and play them all on the table at once, at that time. So you cannot choose a higher X and play them later, they must be played at that moment.
I see nothing stopping me from choosing any number I want to be X. It doesn't say "X <= the number of evil enhancements in your hand" or any other limiter. It just says "X = any number that holder chooses". And when X is chosen, Arrogance's ability then says "Holder may play X enhancements", which is not cost-benefit, but do-as-much-as-you-can (like Zeal, Two Possessed by Demons, etc).
Quote from: SirNobody on July 23, 2009, 04:49:51 PMArrogance is like Babel for enhancements. You choose a certain number of enhancements to play put them all into play at once, they then take effect in the order you choose. Once the last enhancement completes you determine initiative normally (giving a character the opportunity to negate their own removal from battle if that is applicable).
Arrogance is like Babel for enhancements. You choose a certain number of enhancements to play put them all into play at once, they then take effect in the order you choose. Once the last enhancement completes you determine initiative normally (giving a character the opportunity to negate their own removal from battle if that is applicable).
Quote from: SirNobody on July 23, 2009, 04:49:51 PMArrogance is like Babel for enhancements. You choose a certain number of enhancements to play put them all into play at once, they then take effect in the order you choose. Once the last enhancement completes you determine initiative normally (giving a character the opportunity to negate their own removal from battle if that is applicable).That was the ruling, and the important part is bold. The ruling currently is (unless an Elder would step in to clarify all of this for us) that you choose X, play them all at once on the table, and they activate. You don't get to play more if you draw them, only if a SA requires it. That's the ruling of the card and the proposed Play-As, which the same Elder gave (and another agreed with by reposting it).We really need them to confirm all of this and clarify the card, but that's where it stands.
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