Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Gabe on November 20, 2019, 03:47:38 PM
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My male Hero is in battle and the defending player uses Fiery Darts to to discard my Hero. I have Death of Family played as good in my territory so I discard it to add Rahab, the Defender to battle. Rahab negates Fiery Darts. Under the current cascade negate rule does Rahab leave battle and I get Death of Family back?
Fiery Darts - Discard a Hero.
Death of Family - Place in territory: If your male Hero is discarded, you may discard this card to add your female Hero to battle.
Rahab, the Defender (relevant portion) - negate an evil card.
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*shrug* I don't know. Guess that's why we're getting rid of it
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This is less of a problem with cascade negate, but with the idea that negate "goes back in time" because there are cases like this where it obviously doesn't. Negate should be treated as undoing the effects of an ability rather than trying to pretend it never happened.
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Sure, you get Death if Family back. Why not?
Then since your male hero was never discarded (the discard was negated), then Rahab goes back to your territory, which means Rahab never entered battle and never negated fiery darts, so your male hero is being discarded again.
Since this creates an infinite loop, the game immediately ends in a timeout based on the score as of the time of that scenario...new strategies emerge.
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So admittedly I'm a bit fried atm, so if this is incoherent/incorrect feel free to ignore me.
Death of Family is an instant ability that triggers off a condition. Negating Firey Darts doesn't actually negate Death of Family, it just undoes the condition of an instant ability that has already triggered. My gut would say that you don't get DoF back, but both Rahab and the original hero in battle.
Not that it'll be relevant in a couple months.
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Under current rules I'm not sure and that's part of why I dont like how convoluted "cascade" rulings are.
Intuitively I feel that any backtracking shouldnt affect cards no longer in play, so basically once a resource has been used you dont regain it through some backtracking stuff. Resources used should remain resources used imo.
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Since this creates an infinite loop, the game immediately ends in a timeout based on the score as of the time of that scenario...new strategies emerge.
As is typical, I was mostly kidding with my response. I thought the last part would probably get that across, but wanted to mention that explicitly just in case.
Not that it'll be relevant in a couple months.
If by in a couple of months you mean a couple of weeks. December 1st is almost here!
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The bans are scheduled for December 1st. Cascade doesn't get removed until the new REG releases, sometime early next year.
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Ah, I see
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My male Hero is in battle and the defending player uses Fiery Darts to to discard my Hero. I have Death of Family played as good in my territory so I discard it to add Rahab, the Defender to battle. Rahab negates Fiery Darts. Under the current cascade negate rule does Rahab leave battle and I get Death of Family back?
Fiery Darts - Discard a Hero.
Death of Family - Place in territory: If your male Hero is discarded, you may discard this card to add your female Hero to battle.
Rahab, the Defender (relevant portion) - negate an evil card.
Mr. 777Godspeed texted me today to let me know some changes are a'comin'. :)
I realize I'm rustier than a '72 Buick in International Falls, MN, but isn't Death of Family out of play when Fiery Darts is negated? Wouldn't the only way to target Death of Family, whether by activating a special ability OR un-activating a special ability (cascading negate), be to specify last good enhancement?
I also realize that there are probably a gajillion other scenarios I don't know about because of the bazillion new cards that are in circulation since I last posted anything in this section. ;D
Now my head hurts.
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aawwww, STAMP so good to see ya back... I had to pique your interest somehow and what better way than with all the awesome things happening.... :o
Godspeed,
Mike
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My understanding is to go with what Gabe said originally, Death in the Family gets negated and returned to play and Rahab gets kicked out, but Rahab's negate doesn't get undone because of the rule against loops (like banding Moses into battle). That being said, it seems a little ridiculous that you would essentially negate the card for free. But I think that's how it should work (at least pending reading something in the REG that makes me think otherwise).
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I believe this would fall under the current rule as if YWR is used to ATB (such as adding Moses who would negate the hero removing ability). YWR would still be banished and Moses not kicked out.
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I believe this would fall under the current rule as if YWR is used to ATB (such as adding Moses who would negate the hero removing ability). YWR would still be banished and Moses not kicked out.
+1
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So, without cascade negate, does that also remove the need for the rule that says "you can't indirectly negate yourself" like how banding to a FBTN character has been ruled since, forever?