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This is an interesting question...do you have an example of an interaction that made you ask this?
The answer is yes but you have to remember the reason..Only abilities can be negated. Modifiers are not abilities. For example, Herods temple is not cbn, the instead portion is a modifier but is conditional upon a discard ability which can be negated.
Quote from: kariusvega on May 16, 2018, 10:02:45 AMThe answer is yes but you have to remember the reason..Only abilities can be negated. Modifiers are not abilities. For example, Herods temple is not cbn, the instead portion is a modifier but is conditional upon a discard ability which can be negated.This is why I was curious for an example. Watchman, are you asking if "Herod's Temple" were to be Negated, would the modifier continue?
I've always played that modifiers granting CBP/CBI/CBN to other abilities are the only ones that by definition are CBN. If the REG now states that all modifiers are CBN, that's something completely new to me.
So I'm a bit unclear here. Example:My opponent has the 'wicked' lost soul which grants the first evil enhancement he plays regardless of protect abilities.I have Moses CoW in territory negating lost souls.I attack with AUtO and exchange for Gideon.Is the first evil enhancement my opponent plays regardless of protect abilities because it is a modifier?
if abilities that make other things CBN are themselves CBN because they are really modifiers, I don't see why an ability that makes things regardless of protection should be any different
All modifiers are CBN.This does not make Herod's Temple CBN, because the instead modifier modifies it's own ability, so it replaces the triggering event rather than waiting until all other abilities complete, but the modified ability is still negateable.
All modifiers are CBN.
Are all abilities that grant any modifier CBN? If so the REG is currently inconsistent with the rules.
Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 17, 2018, 04:06:53 PMAll modifiers are CBN.This does not make Herod's Temple CBN, because the instead modifier modifies it's own ability, so it replaces the triggering event rather than waiting until all other abilities complete, but the modified ability is still negateable.So what does this mean for The god of This World then? His "Instead" ability is CBN, no matter what - so when my opponent draws via his/her special ability, it gets Insteaded, and therefore the only question is whether my opponent draws 1 (TgoTW doesn't get negated later) or 0 (TgoTW later gets negated)?
Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 17, 2018, 04:06:53 PMAll modifiers are CBN.Are all abilities that grant any modifier CBN? If so the REG is currently inconsistent with the rules.
Quote from: Kevinthedude on May 17, 2018, 04:32:17 PMAre all abilities that grant any modifier CBN? If so the REG is currently inconsistent with the rules.Saying something is "inconsistent" isn't helpful you, us or the rest of the community. Showing how you feel it's inconsistent, especially with reference to specific "inconsistent" parts is constructive criticism we'd be glad to hear and possibly address.
The REG also says weapons are normal Enhancements in battle - we haven't gotten a new version released yet.
Quote from: Josh on May 17, 2018, 04:27:23 PMQuote from: RedemptionAggie on May 17, 2018, 04:06:53 PMAll modifiers are CBN.This does not make Herod's Temple CBN, because the instead modifier modifies it's own ability, so it replaces the triggering event rather than waiting until all other abilities complete, but the modified ability is still negateable.So what does this mean for The god of This World then? His "Instead" ability is CBN, no matter what - so when my opponent draws via his/her special ability, it gets Insteaded, and therefore the only question is whether my opponent draws 1 (TgoTW doesn't get negated later) or 0 (TgoTW later gets negated)? It's X-1 or 0, but yes. That's stated in the definition of instead (Special Conditions -> 5th bullet).
Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 17, 2018, 04:43:30 PMQuote from: Josh on May 17, 2018, 04:27:23 PMQuote from: RedemptionAggie on May 17, 2018, 04:06:53 PMAll modifiers are CBN.This does not make Herod's Temple CBN, because the instead modifier modifies it's own ability, so it replaces the triggering event rather than waiting until all other abilities complete, but the modified ability is still negateable.So what does this mean for The god of This World then? His "Instead" ability is CBN, no matter what - so when my opponent draws via his/her special ability, it gets Insteaded, and therefore the only question is whether my opponent draws 1 (TgoTW doesn't get negated later) or 0 (TgoTW later gets negated)? It's X-1 or 0, but yes. That's stated in the definition of instead (Special Conditions -> 5th bullet).I feel like I'm completely misunderstanding but does this mean that KoT+Moses=opponent always draws 0?
Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 17, 2018, 04:43:30 PMThe REG also says weapons are normal Enhancements in battle - we haven't gotten a new version released yet.I didn't mean to insist that all updates happen immediately, I mainly bring this up because I think it's still a subject of debate for some people whether the REG actually needs to be changed in this area.
Why do we even call them modifiers at all? Cant they just all be abilities and then you have abilities that grant CBx be CBN? That seems a lot simpler...
Quote from: sepjazzwarrior on May 17, 2018, 04:15:10 PMWhy do we even call them modifiers at all? Cant they just all be abilities and then you have abilities that grant CBx be CBN? That seems a lot simpler...Dear all,I think it would be great if everything was marked "CBN" if it was CBN (even if it was just a modifier). The reason is because it is sometimes very difficult to tell the difference between a special ability and a modifier (see previous discussion on Peter (EC) -i.e. you have to parse out his ability into part 1 & 2, where the first part is negatable, but the second part is not. This is very confusing.)Here are some other examples:Michael (Ki) is a clear MODIFIER: "Enhancements played with Michael cannot be negated" - so this would be inherently CBN, right?However, Captain of the Host (Ki) is a SPECIAL ABILITY: "Negate all non weapon class special abilities except banding". So, am I right to assume Captain of the Host would be negatable?Now, here is an interesting example -- King of Tyrus. One version (Priests) appears to be negatable, whereas the other version (Warriors) appears to be CBN. What is the difference? Only a slightly different wording. The Priest version states: "Negate all special abilities on characters and enhancements (except this special ability)." This one is written in active voice, so it is a special ability, hence it would be negatable, because it does not say "CBN" on it. The other version, Warriors, is written in passive voice: "All special abilities on character cards and enhancement cards except this one are interrupted and prevented. Battle is determined by the numbers." So, this one appears to be a MODIFIER, not an ability, so it would be CBN.Is this correct?Thank you
Looks like you’re having trouble with abilities vs modifiers. All a modifier is is wording that modifies abilities. CBN, CBI, and CBP are modifiers. They are not abilities. Modifiers are telling you that the previous ABILITY cannot be X. In your KoT examples his ability is just an ability in both versions. He has no modifiers at all since there are no CBx printed on his cards. Same thing with Captain. His and KoT ability can be prevented or interrupted. Kings and AW Michael, on the other hand, has a modifier since it has CBN wording.
Kings and AW Michael, on the other hand, has a modifier since it has CBN wording.
Demetrius the Siversmith is another good example. DtS' special ability contains 3 sentences. The first 2 sentences are special abilities, so they are NEGATABLE, but the last sentence is a modifier, so it is CBN.It would be wrong to claim that ALL of DtS' special ability was CBN, just because of the modifier present in the third sentence.Thanks
Quote from: Watchman492 on May 23, 2018, 02:12:23 PMKings and AW Michael, on the other hand, has a modifier since it has CBN wording.Watchman, I just wanted to clarify something. In your last statement you wrote: Kings and AW Michael has a modifier since it has CBN wording.Yes, that is true, but just because there is a modifier (somewhere) within a character's special ability (total text), that does not guarantee that his WHOLE special ability is CBN. There are cards in which part of the special ability must be parsed out from the modifier portion in order to determine which part is CBN and which is not (case in point = Peter, EC).That's all I am saying.Thanks
Quote from: emonier on May 23, 2018, 03:11:08 PMDemetrius the Siversmith is another good example. DtS' special ability contains 3 sentences. The first 2 sentences are special abilities, so they are NEGATABLE, but the last sentence is a modifier, so it is CBN.It would be wrong to claim that ALL of DtS' special ability was CBN, just because of the modifier present in the third sentence.ThanksActually that’s a bad example because his modifier says “Acts 19 cards cannot be negated.” Since he is an Acts 19 card his entire card ability cannot be negated.
Moses doesn't negate Artifacts, but for the non-CBX modifiers, the modified ability is negateable. So you can negate everything but the limit."Limit once" means limit once until reset to face value. It does get discarded when the limit is reached. Older cards like Burial Shroud use "limit twice" in the Play As.
Quote from: Watchman492 on May 23, 2018, 03:13:28 PMQuote from: emonier on May 23, 2018, 03:11:08 PMDemetrius the Siversmith is another good example. DtS' special ability contains 3 sentences. The first 2 sentences are special abilities, so they are NEGATABLE, but the last sentence is a modifier, so it is CBN.It would be wrong to claim that ALL of DtS' special ability was CBN, just because of the modifier present in the third sentence.ThanksActually that’s a bad example because his modifier says “Acts 19 cards cannot be negated.” Since he is an Acts 19 card his entire card ability cannot be negated.Wow, nice catch. Thank you.I still think it would be clearer if the card said "Acts 19 cards (including this one) cannot be negated."Don't you think?Thanks*NOTE: I would just like to see more clarity (on the cards themselves) about what can be negated and what cannot. I don't like being surprised in tournaments when people say things like: "Oh, you can't negate that because of x, y, z..." And, I have heard people argue that Peter (EC) cannot be negated, which is simply not true.