Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: megamanlan on April 03, 2017, 06:57:06 PM
-
If Angel's Sword is Discarded when Silly Women enters battle, does it still trigger? (As the effect is technically activated)
Angel's Sword
3/2 Silver Weapon Class Enhancement
If blocked by a Human Evil Character, Hero may play First Enhancement
Silly Women
X/X Multi Evil Character
X = # of Evil Characters
Discard a Good Enhancement. After Battle, Capture this to your Opponent's Land of Bondage. Cannot be prevented.
-
Absolutely. Angel's Sword enters battle, so it activates, and Silly Women doesn't negate the ability.
You would get to play an Enhancement after Silly Women finishes resolving.
-
My understanding is that "if" is a dynamic condition requiring the card with dynamic condition to find that condition while still in play to activate. Another example: Golden Cherubim. If it leaves play it no longer activates even in the same phase if an opponent uses a draw ability..
Same with throne/poz/tc characters/placed enh/etc. So in this case I see Silly Women discarding Angels Sword at which point "if" is no longer a dynamic option to check upon Silly Women's ability completing and therefore yielding no play as Angel's Sword is no longer in play to activate that very ability
-
My understanding is that "if" is a dynamic condition requiring the card with dynamic condition to find that condition while still in play to activate. Another example: Golden Cherubim. If it leaves play it no longer activates even in the same phase if an opponent uses a draw ability..
Same with throne/poz/tc characters/placed enh/etc. So in this case I see Silly Women discarding Angels Sword at which point "if" is no longer a dynamic option to check upon Silly Women's ability completing and therefore yielding no play as Angel's Sword is no longer in play to activate that very ability
This was my thinking as well, though I'm not 100% sure either way.
-
I agree as well.
In this specific example, Angel's Sword would not trigger until Silly Women's ability has completed, at which point it is no longer in play to trigger.
-
I agree as well.
In this specific example, Angel's Sword would not trigger until Silly Women's ability has completed, at which point it is no longer in play to trigger.
Yep, Karius and I wanted to be sure. (We were playing before and the question came up.)
-
*Inserts obligatory "Ongoing mandatory triggers persist when the card leaves play, ongoing optional triggers do not" quote*
Angel's Sword happens to meet the "ongoing optional trigger" definition because of the word "may". If it was mandatory, it would still work.
-
*Inserts obligatory "Ongoing mandatory triggers persist when the card leaves play, ongoing optional triggers do not" quote*
Angel's Sword happens to meet the "ongoing optional trigger" definition because of the word "may". If it was mandatory, it would still work.
Or triggered before effects resolve ;P
-
Angel's Sword happens to meet the "ongoing optional trigger" definition because of the word "may". If it was mandatory, it would still work.
Oh.
That's frustratingly confusing.
My bad.
-
Angel's Sword happens to meet the "ongoing optional trigger" definition because of the word "may". If it was mandatory, it would still work.
Oh.
That's frustratingly confusing.
My bad.
Think of it this way: When a card has an ongoing ability and is removed from play without being negated, the ongoing ability continues to work for the rest of the phase IF the ongoing ability is mandatory.
-
Think of it this way: When a card has an ongoing ability and is removed from play without being negated, the ongoing ability continues to work for the rest of the phase IF the ongoing ability is mandatory.
I get that, but it still strikes me that the card entered battle, so the special ability activated. Even if it leaves play, the special ability was never negated, so it should still activate, as it would were the ability not optional.
I understand this is the official ruling, but I'm not a fan, which finally isn't what's important.
-
I get that, but it still strikes me that the card entered battle, so the special ability activated. Even if it leaves play, the special ability was never negated, so it should still activate, as it would were the ability not optional.
I understand this is the official ruling, but I'm not a fan, which finally isn't what's important.
I know it's confusing, because it has the same effect as "not activating at all". But just remember that if Angel's Sword forced you to play an enhancement when you are blocked by a human EC, then it would work even if it was discarded.
So in a sense, it did activate. It just turned off when it left battle because it wasn't mandatory.
-
Think of it this way, the trigger totally activated but you can't use cards in the discard pile. If an automatic trigger is set, you use the card right then, but if it has an optional ability it has to be in a valid location to use the card when you want to do so.
-
Think of it this way, the trigger totally activated but you can't use cards in the discard pile. If an automatic trigger is set, you use the card right then, but if it has an optional ability it has to be in a valid location to use the card when you want to do so.
Well said
-
Still feels like an unnecessary distinction to make. If you Christian Martyr a Moses that was banded into battle the battle is still btn. I don't see that as using Moses from discard pile but rather his ability activated and is continuous. Same thing with Angel's Sword, except apparently the REG makes a distinction between mandatory and optional triggers. Yet, I don't understand how you are somehow using Angel's Sword from discard pile because it is optional but not if it was a mandatory trigger .
-
I agree, the way triggers work in Redemption is very confusing and needlessly so.