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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: slugfencer on December 22, 2010, 05:30:24 PM

Title: Adding a site to battle
Post by: slugfencer on December 22, 2010, 05:30:24 PM
Can you add a site to battle (you are rescuing) even if you don't need it for access?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The M on December 22, 2010, 05:37:26 PM
I don't see why not, but why would you need to.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: slugfencer on December 22, 2010, 05:48:19 PM
Entering battle, single color sites special ablities don't work, So I can make Nazareth turn off while I search with a hero, then it should turn back on after the battle against my opponent.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: TheHobbit13 on December 22, 2010, 07:20:26 PM
Can you add a site to battle (you are rescuing) even if you don't need it for access?

Thanks!

Yes, that is my understanding.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on December 22, 2010, 07:37:04 PM
Entering battle, single color sites special ablities don't work, So I can make Nazareth turn off while I search with a hero, then it should turn back on after the battle against my opponent.

smart, unless they set-it aside...
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 22, 2010, 10:54:59 PM
Entering battle, single color sites special ablities don't work, ...

Why would Nazareth's ability not work while in battle?
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: TheHobbit13 on December 22, 2010, 11:26:46 PM
Entering battle, single color sites special ablities don't work, ...

Why would Nazareth's ability not work while in battle?

I found this in the REG

Quote from: REG=topic=24829.msg391977#msg391977 date=1293076499

All the single color sites are mainly used defensively as “lost soul sites”.  The special abilities on single color sites are written to take effect when they are holding a lost soul.  Therefore, if you are using an “access site” defensively or a “lost soul site” offensively the special abilities don’t activate.

Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on December 22, 2010, 11:54:26 PM
based on that, must sites have a lost soul to activate the SA? and if that's true, do the SA's immediately de-activate when one is rescued?
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 22, 2010, 11:59:18 PM
based on that, must sites have a lost soul to activate the SA? and if that's true, do the SA's immediately de-activate when one is rescued?

With the addition of these new sites, that part of the REG is outdated.

Also, you cant add a site into battle before a hero's SA activates.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on December 23, 2010, 12:05:26 AM
can you add a site at any time?
can you add multiple sites?
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: RTSmaniac on December 23, 2010, 12:17:58 AM
I would say yes and yes
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on December 23, 2010, 12:25:46 AM
I would say yes and yes

really??
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: RTSmaniac on December 23, 2010, 12:31:06 AM
why not?
i mean you couldnt insert sites into battle in the middle of another ability trying to resolve, but other than that...
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 23, 2010, 12:52:02 AM
Sites can enter battle simultaneously with Heroes. There hasn't been firm resolution on if/how this would allow a Hero with a search ability to work if Nazareth were presented. Sites can be added at any time, but only from territory. You can add as many Sites as you want. Single-Color Sites are active while in territory and multi-color Sites are active in battle (the REG is wrong). I think that wraps up the latest batch of site confusion on this thread.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: RTSmaniac on December 23, 2010, 12:56:33 AM
Quote
Sites can enter battle simultaneously with Heroes.

this doesnt sound right to me.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 23, 2010, 09:07:25 AM
Wait, so the REG says that single-color site SAs are active only when they are occupied, but that is outdated and should be ignored. However, the REG also says that single-color site SAs are not active in battle, but that should not be ignored. How exactly am I supposed to know which entry to believe?

Frankly, if single-color sites do not need to be occupied to be active, then being in battle or in territory should not make a difference. Since the REG is continuing its updates, I think we need to make a more consistent default for sites, especially with the new sites that have come out in the latest sets.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Korunks on December 23, 2010, 10:34:12 AM
Wait, so the REG says that single-color site SAs are active only when they are occupied, but that is outdated and should be ignored. However, the REG also says that single-color site SAs are not active in battle, but that should not be ignored. How exactly am I supposed to know which entry to believe?

Frankly, if single-color sites do not need to be occupied to be active, then being in battle or in territory should not make a difference. Since the REG is continuing its updates, I think we need to make a more consistent default for sites, especially with the new sites that have come out in the latest sets.

+1 I request that sites be fixed in The OFFICIAL REG CORRECTION THREAD.  That way we hosts have a quick reference.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 23, 2010, 11:59:33 AM
Quote
Since the REG is continuing its updates, I think we need to make a more consistent default for sites, especially with the new sites that have come out in the latest sets.
Um, that is the new, consistent default for Sites. It's in the new rules thread and only went into effect in Di.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 23, 2010, 12:04:23 PM
Quote
Since the REG is continuing its updates, I think we need to make a more consistent default for sites, especially with the new sites that have come out in the latest sets.
Um, that is the new, consistent default for Sites. It's in the new rules thread and only went into effect in Di.

Could you point me to that thread? I just looked in two "New Rulings" threads (which is silly in itself) and found nothing about sites.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 23, 2010, 12:14:49 PM
Well fancy that, it's not there. I could have sworn there was an announcement thread. Needs to be added to the REG updates thread.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 23, 2010, 12:15:55 PM
Well fancy that, it's not there. I could have sworn there was an announcement thread. Needs to be added to the REG updates thread.

I just wanted to be sure it wasn't just me (as is usually the case  ;)  ).
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The Guardian on December 23, 2010, 03:27:57 PM
Sites can enter battle simultaneously with Heroes. There hasn't been firm resolution on if/how this would allow a Hero with a search ability to work if Nazareth were presented. Sites can be added at any time, but only from territory. You can add as many Sites as you want. Single-Color Sites are active while in territory and multi-color Sites are active in battle (the REG is wrong). I think that wraps up the latest batch of site confusion on this thread.

The above is essentially correct. We will work on clarifying/finalizing this and getting it in the REG update thread.

These rules are for sure:
*Single-color Sites are always active in territory (occupied or not--though some only trigger upon certain conditions) and cease to be active once they enter battle.
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This rule is being discussed (and we are leaning towards implementing it):
*Sites can be presented in battle simultaneously with a Hero thereby allowing combos such as a Hero with a search ability to rescue with Nazareth and use his ability.



Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 23, 2010, 03:42:18 PM
That last one cannot be a rule as written. A Site would have to be in battle before the Hero.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The M on December 23, 2010, 05:27:51 PM
Quote
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This doesn't make any sense.
This severely inhibits most if not all access sites!
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 23, 2010, 05:49:49 PM
Quote
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This doesn't make any sense.
This severely inhibits most if not all access sites!

No it doesn't.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 23, 2010, 07:50:23 PM
Quote
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This doesn't make any sense.
This severely inhibits most if not all access sites!

That has always been the rule for multicolor sites. What exactly is being inhibited?
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on December 23, 2010, 11:20:18 PM
Quote
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This doesn't make any sense.
This severely inhibits most if not all access sites!

No it doesn't.

I agree
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: TheJaylor on December 24, 2010, 12:16:16 AM
Quote
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This doesn't make any sense.
This severely inhibits most if not all access sites!

No it doesn't.
I don't understand why it doesn't but then again i don't understand why it does.

I agree
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The Guardian on December 24, 2010, 12:34:31 AM
That last one cannot be a rule as written. A Site would have to be in battle before the Hero.

I'm not sure I follow why. I'm not disagreeing, but merely wondering what your line of reasoning is.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 24, 2010, 09:35:07 AM
SoG NJ Shuffler and Thorns. To be consistent with the Site ruling, you'd have to be able to shuffle all LS's off the play.
Title: Merry Christnmas 2010
Post by: faithraider on December 24, 2010, 09:54:35 AM

To All  in the Redeption Community.....  Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !!!!

I always think of the of the outstanding group of people who play Redemption with a sincere sense of blessing to know you all !!!!!



JOHN
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 24, 2010, 09:55:19 AM
???
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The M on December 24, 2010, 10:36:15 AM
Quote
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This doesn't make any sense.
This severely inhibits most if not all access sites!
Yeah, The Ends of the Earth and Promised Land!!!!
Sites that already give access don't need to be in battle.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: TheHobbit13 on December 24, 2010, 12:52:32 PM
Quote
*Multi-color Sites are not active in territory and activate once they enter battle, but after Hero abilities are completed (if they are put into battle at the same time).

This doesn't make any sense.
This severely inhibits most if not all access sites!
Yeah, The Ends of the Earth and Promised Land!!!!
Sites that already give access don't need to be in battle.


How? Multi color sites are not active in territory.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 24, 2010, 01:22:52 PM
Yeah, The Ends of the Earth and Promised Land!!!!
Sites that already give access don't need to be in battle.

This is where you are mistaken. Those sites have always had to be in battle to be active. This is not a rule change. You have been playing it wrong. For the record, I understand why there may have been confusion. The multicolor icon already gives access, however the intent of the SA was to limit the use of these sites (except Dragon Raid).

The original defaults were that multicolor sites were only active in battle, and that single-color sites are only active when occupied. New sites have changed those defaults, without an accompanying advertised rule change. If we are going to overhaul traditional defaults, then it needs to be shouted from the mountaintop and then posted on a billboard.

???

That's just John. You'll get used to him.  ;)

To All  in the Redeption Community.....  Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !!!!

I always think of the of the outstanding group of people who play Redemption with a sincere sense of blessing to know you all !!!!!

Merry Christmas to you, too! Congratulations on a successful Nationals! I hope to see y'all again when I visit family in New England. Of course you know that I am quite perturbed you held Natz after I left for Florida.  ;)
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The M on December 24, 2010, 02:23:34 PM
Quote
This is where you are mistaken. Those sites have always had to be in battle to be active. This is not a rule change. You have been playing it wrong. For the record, I understand why there may have been confusion. The multicolor icon already gives access, however the intent of the SA was to limit the use of these sites (except Dragon Raid).
Hmm...
That is how I have played it at every tournament I've gone to and nobody has objected.
Can we have a rule update or at least an errata for TEotE , because the ability is really useless if you can only use it in battle. What is the point of only giving N.T. heroes access when you can give all your heroes access with just the site itself?
The site wouldn't be negated and you would just return it to your territory but keep the access.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The Guardian on December 24, 2010, 02:38:18 PM
Hmm...
That is how I have played it at every tournament I've gone to and nobody has objected.
Can we have a rule update or at least an errata for TEotE , because the ability is really useless if you can only use it in battle. What is the point of only giving N.T. heroes access when you can give all your heroes access with just the site itself?
The site wouldn't be negated and you would just return it to your territory but keep the access.

Maybe it never came up, but YMT is definitely correct.
Multi-color Sites are not active in territory otherwise DragonRaid could discard evil cards from Sites without ever being placed in battle.
I'm not sure what exactly you are saying with Ends of the Earth...it's special ability gives access to all NT Heroes. If there are no NT Heroes in battle, it withdraws itself. If your opponent steals it during battle, (Danites Attack) NT Heroes still have access from the special ability.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 24, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Can we have a rule update or at least an errata for TEotE , because the ability is really useless if you can only use it in battle. What is the point of only giving N.T. heroes access when you can give all your heroes access with just the site itself?

The SA was intended to override the icon. You can not use TEotE to give access to anyone except NT heroes (unless the SA is somehow negated, which is not likely). We did not want to have a plethora of anytime access sites (like Dragon Raid), so the other multicolor sites have stipulations for use.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 24, 2010, 02:53:40 PM
Can we have a rule update or at least an errata for TEotE , because the ability is really useless if you can only use it in battle. What is the point of only giving N.T. heroes access when you can give all your heroes access with just the site itself?

The SA was intended to override the icon. You can not use TEotE to give access to anyone except NT heroes (unless the SA is somehow negated, which is not likely). We did not want to have a plethora of anytime access sites (like Dragon Raid), so the other multicolor sites have stipulations for use.
I don't think you're right. I believe they both work together. Example: RA with Jacob + Cap + Promised Land (Jacob). Opponent CMs Jacob. I should still have access, right?

Last tourny I realized Ends of the Earth was a brilliant card, so it wasn't awesome like Dragon Raid. Go ahead and look at the SA again, ;D
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 24, 2010, 02:59:48 PM
I don't think you're right. I believe they both work together. Example: RA with Jacob + Cap + Promised Land (Jacob). Opponent CMs Jacob. I should still have access, right?

Yes, but only for two uses.

Last tourny I realized Ends of the Earth was a brilliant card, so it wasn't awesome like Dragon Raid. Go ahead and look at the SA again, ;D

I looked. It can still only be used by NT heroes.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The Guardian on December 24, 2010, 03:01:37 PM
Quote
I don't think you're right. I believe they both work together. Example: RA with Jacob + Cap + Promised Land (Jacob). Opponent CMs Jacob. I should still have access, right?

Of course.

Now take a slightly different scenario.

Simeon bands to Capt. using Ends of the Earth for access.
(Simeon has access via the multi-color Site AND by the special ability. Captain has access via the multi-color Site only.)
Opponent CMs Simeon.
Ends of the Earth withdraws itself.
Captain no longer has access.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 24, 2010, 03:03:51 PM
Nevermind. I misread YMT's post :o.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 24, 2010, 03:13:44 PM
Nevermind. I misread YMT's post :o.

When I was your age, misreading someone's post meant that you got too close to their fence with your tractor.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: joeycauldron on December 24, 2010, 03:15:45 PM
Wrong topic.  :)
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: TheJaylor on December 24, 2010, 11:50:49 PM
Wrong topic.  :)
so what it is still funny
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The M on December 25, 2010, 08:46:04 AM
Quote
I don't think you're right. I believe they both work together. Example: RA with Jacob + Cap + Promised Land (Jacob). Opponent CMs Jacob. I should still have access, right?

Of course.

Now take a slightly different scenario.

Simeon bands to Capt. using Ends of the Earth for access.
(Simeon has access via the multi-color Site AND by the special ability. Captain has access via the multi-color Site only.)
Opponent CMs Simeon.
Ends of the Earth withdraws itself.
Captain no longer has access.
Yeah, but Access to Sites is an ongoing ability.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 25, 2010, 09:47:27 AM
Quote
I don't think you're right. I believe they both work together. Example: RA with Jacob + Cap + Promised Land (Jacob). Opponent CMs Jacob. I should still have access, right?

Of course.

Now take a slightly different scenario.

Simeon bands to Capt. using Ends of the Earth for access.
(Simeon has access via the multi-color Site AND by the special ability. Captain has access via the multi-color Site only.)
Opponent CMs Simeon.
Ends of the Earth withdraws itself.
Captain no longer has access.
Yeah, but Access to Sites is an ongoing ability.

That is not relevant in this case.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: RTSmaniac on December 25, 2010, 02:26:29 PM
Quote
Yeah, but Access to Sites is an ongoing ability.

what if they block and you play grapes and rescue again with a NT guy- does he have access?

Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 25, 2010, 04:49:39 PM
Quote
Yeah, but Access to Sites is an ongoing ability.

what if they block and you play grapes and rescue again with a NT guy- does he have access?

Just bring the site back into battle.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The Schaef on December 30, 2010, 08:06:13 AM
Yeah, but Access to Sites is an ongoing ability.

Access to Sites is an ongoing SPECIAL ability, but the multicolor Site does not continue to grant multicolor access when it is no longer in battle.  If there are no NT Heroes in battle, the card withdraws, leaving no access for the OT Heroes.
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The M on December 30, 2010, 10:46:55 AM
Yeah, but Access to Sites is an ongoing ability.

Access to Sites is an ongoing SPECIAL ability, but the multicolor Site does not continue to grant multicolor access when it is no longer in battle.  If there are no NT Heroes in battle, the card withdraws, leaving no access for the OT Heroes.
OK. I think I get it now...
Title: Re: Adding a site to battle
Post by: The Schaef on December 30, 2010, 10:53:21 AM
It's like the NT-only Lost Soul.  If you have a NT Hero in battle, you are able to rescue that Lost Soul, but if the NT Hero is removed, you don't still have the ability to rescue that soul with your other OT Heroes.  Stuff that relies on basic characteristics of a card - the type of card or the brigade or the Scripture reference, stuff like that - doesn't hang around the way an active special ability hangs around.
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