Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Sorry in advance for not posting abilities on cards, but the experts know the cards in question.

1.  If the Amelikites slave has become a lost soul in my opponent's territory, and I have the anti-ignore lost soul in my territory. Who does the dual color slave count against?  For example:  Rebekah comes at me with Reuben's Torn Clothes and I only have PG in territory: can she ignore me?
    I think it is: no she can't.  If she can, then explain to me (not Gabe, sorry  ) how the Slave's dual color counts against me when it is in the opponent's territory as a lost soul?

2.  "Simple" question:  is initiative check made after every enhancement played without the play next ability?
     Situation:  I go in with the Generous Widow.  I'm blocked by Unclean Spirit (Brown) and my Tartan (PG).  I play Battle Prayer....get Fishers of Men and play it to convert The Tartan.  I don't want to acknowledge initiative so I can play AoTL.  However, I'm told that interrupts don't have to check for initiative and can be just played as a counter action.  So, again, the question is begged:  is or is not an initiative check made after every enhancement?

hah, I knew it!!!

But what about the initiative check?

*edit*  you hadn't typed the initiative part yet. 

Captured characters no longer have brigades for the purposes of counting such things.

That's good; otherwise, capture could be rather risky.

A Curse or Covenant being used as an Artifact still has a brigade that counts, even though Artifacts don't have brigades.  Why would a captured character be treated differently?  It still has a brigade.  So why doesn't the brigade count?

I agree that this seems inconsistent.  And I think that the reasoning behind the rule was based more on the fact that there were already cards printed that referred to the brigades of curses, than it was to fit into and overall consistent game model.  However, it is a clearly established rule.

You can't play dominants while another card is resolving.  If Fishers of Men is going to cause the blocker to be in a losing position, then the blocker has initiative to interrupt/negate.  How exactly do you insert AotL in there?

The way I think of it is that when you play an enhancement that has numbers alone and it makes you higher than the other character, then they are losing by the numbers.  You can either play a dominant or recognize their initiative to do something about it.  Similarly, if you play an enhancement that has a special ability to remove the other character, then they are losing by removal.  You can either play a dominant or recognize their initiative to do something about it.  The only difference is that their options of what they could do about it (if given initiative) are limited to negates and interrupts.

So, you can play AotL any time; it just doesn't stop your opponent from negating the last enhancement played?

Not to intrude on this thread, Gabe, I'm not sure I totally understand. Are you saying the conversion card isn't complete until there's been an opportunity to negate?

If you play High Priests Plot against me, I can't play SoG/NJ from my hand before you get to take it with HPP.  So why can Angel of the Lord be inserted before a conversion card completes?

It's not.  So there's no issue here.

It's not.  So there's no issue here.

Thanks, Schaef.  That doesn't help me understand this any better but it definitely proves your intellectual superiority.

Either way, I am certain you agree that interrupts do NOT bypass the normal rules of initiative, as Jonathan was asking in his OP?

Yes.  I was the other player in that game.  Jonathan's question came from a misunderstanding why we played the battle the way we did.  Nobody said interrupts bypass the normal rules of initiative but somehow he must have gotten that impression since he asked the question.

I still don't understand how any "removal" enhancement can be completed enough to allow a dominant to be inserted but not completed enough to have removed my character from battle.  Either it's completed and my character has been removed or it's not completed and my character remains until I've passed intiative to interrupt/negate.  What am I missing?

To help clarify what happened and my position (hopefully to bring clarity and not muddy things up more).  I converted the Tartan leaving only Unclean Spirit and Gabe's Initiative, but I didn't recognize that initiative until I played Angel of the Lord on Unclean Spirit.  Then I "recognized" Gabe's initiative.

I see "recognizing" and "checking" as the same thing.  Time to play my dominant.  Especially when I'm not very fast at clicking cards on the computer.

You passed initiative to him by playing the conversion.  The check between cards also serves as a time frame for players to play Dominants.  He gained initiative from the initial conversion, regardless of when you verbally "granted" the ability to play his Enhancement.

That is what created the misunderstanding, I wanted to play AoTL during this check, and Gabe (to my understanding) didn't think I could play a dom during this check.
That misunderstanding led to my question.

Ok if I block with POGreece to anti the 4th, he d/cs a diff hero for the ability then plays glit sword vs my Anti the 4th then aotls my POgreece, I can inturupt his sword with namaans horses can I not?

If I am reading this correctly, then yes you can play Namaan's horses to interrupt glittering sword because it's your init by removal.   If I'm reading it right.

Are you serious?  If that's true then I just cheated RR in our game (sorry, RR). 

How is that different than the situation in our game Soul Seeker?

How come I can't seem to get this right? 

Quote from: soul seeker on October 30, 2008, 03:31:20 PM

If I am reading this correctly, then yes you can play Namaan's horses to interrupt glittering sword because it's your init by removal.   If I'm reading it right.

Are you serious?  If that's true then I just cheated RR in our game (sorry, RR). 

How is that different than the situation in our game Soul Seeker?

How come I can't seem to get this right? 

Its cool. I woulda lost either way, stupid king david

That's a good point Schaef...I didn't even think to ask for the heroes numbers...that would change things.

It sounds like you are saying that:
if a 8/8 GC makes a RA and is blocked by 2 5/5 ECs banded together, and
if the GC plays a GE that discards 1 of the 2 ECs, then initiative passes to the defender, but
if the attacker plays AotL on the 2nd EC, then there would be noone left in battle to negate the discard, but
the defender can still play the negate on the first EC that was discarded.

Is that right?

if the attacker plays AotL on the 2nd EC, then there would be noone left in battle to negate the discard, but
the defender can still play the negate on the first EC that was discarded.

If the player had an opportunity to interrupt before AotL was played, he still has an opportunity after.
If the player did not have an opportunity before AotL was played, he does not have an opportunity after.
So in this case, the passing of initiative allows you to play a negate on the first EC, whether AotL is played or not.

Actually, unless that ability is prevented, or a 'battle winner,' then you're supposed to follow through with the ability before it can even *get* negated.

Example:
*I make a RA with Gabriel (SA: Search Opp's Draw Pile and DC one enhancement)
~~I know my opponent can, or will, negate this ability, but according to game rule I search their Draw Pile and DC an enhancement
*They block with King of Tyrus (Negate all Special Abilities)
~~Gabriel's ability is NOW negated, and the Enhancement is returned to their Draw Pile and the Draw Pile is shuffled.