Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption® Online Gaming => Topic started by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on February 11, 2009, 06:46:58 PM
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Continues from http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12850.1155
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Call me a jerk, but I expect a torn card every time the special ability of HP is used. I don't care if I'm playing against a 4 year old. If you want to use the special ability then you should use the special ability.
Jerk.
I find this extremely over-competitive. If you were teaching a new player, and they used HP, you would make them rip it!?
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If you were teaching a new player, and they used HP, you would make them rip it!?
If a new player read the special ability, they would have no knowledge of the unspoken rule that you don't have to rip it in non-tournament games. I would fully expect them to say something like, "man, that's a weird special ability. Does anyone use this?" Then that gives me the opportunity to teach them about special abilities that say "may"
Actually when my friend pulled that card from a pack, that was our exact reaction, with alot of laughing (A self ripping card is funny). Also I (I also, as stated don't like HP in online play but I will deal with it, I'm just presenting sean's side from my view) would warn them they have to rip it if they wanna use it. If they want to, great, if not well, they learned the value of when to use super cards.
This isn't a tournament meant to test decks, Cameron. It's meant to be won, as any tournament is. It's a competetive environment, and the rules should follow suit.
I'm so glad I don't live in your world, I've brought more experimental decks to tournies than working decks(proven and tried)
By your statement, I could not even test my decks without ripping cards.
Just one card, Haman's Plot. I would sure hope you don't rip other cards.
Paging Orangebus
Honestly, Double standards are no fun, and as much as I love super combos beating me senseless (yes, If you beat me with something I've never seen before, I enjoy it cuz I learneded) butt the most enfuriating(sp?) thing to me in online play is someone who can beat my deck because he can 'rip' an online card without ripping a real one, making it have no consequences for a super card. Its like saying I can play wickedness removed, without removing it. Anyways /endrant
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Yes, rip it. It's no different than not removing wickedness removed.
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Except in this case, you'd be depriving a brother (assuming, not a big jump since it's a Christian based card game) of soemthing worth a few bucks. What would you rather have somebody do for you in a pick up game-tear your $3 in half, or just tell you to remove it from the game?
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Rip it. I didn't make the rules. I never would have put that clause on the end. But since they did... it's a RULE! You HAVE to uphold it.
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Why? It is a rule that when you play a dom, you MUST choose a target. However, in a friendly game, you normally allow the player to take it back. Using your logic, ALL games must be played with ALL tournament rules.
Except in this case, you'd be depriving a brother (assuming, not a big jump since it's a Christian based card game) of soemthing worth a few bucks. What would you rather have somebody do for you in a pick up game-tear your $3 in half, or just tell you to remove it from the game?
I like to remove it from the game with Cov w/ Eden up. =D
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Yes... I always play by the rules with friends, especially with cards like HP.
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guys the online games you CAN"T RIP IT so knock IT OFF!
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DUDE YOU ARE SO ANTI HP SOME LIKE ME DON"T HAVE HP SIDES I DON"T HAVE ONE
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You don't make people rip HP when they're playing an exhibition game with you to test their decks. This is the same thing. There's no prize, it's not an official tournament, and most people (including myself) are playing because of the opportunity to play people better than they are and practice with their decks. As such, HP shouldn't have to be ripped.
Further, we already voted on this and decided, overwhelmingly, to allow HP in the SOT. I don't understand why we're having this discussion again.
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DUDE YOU ARE SO ANTI HP SOME LIKE ME DON"T HAVE HP SIDES I DON"T HAVE ONE
then don't use it. simple as that. Yes online tournaments don't require (sometimes) that you own a card which is nice.
You don't make people rip HP when they're playing an exhibition game with you to test their decks. This is the same thing. There's no prize, it's not an official tournament, and most people (including myself) are playing because of the opportunity to play people better than they are and practice with their decks. As such, HP shouldn't have to be ripped.
Further, we already voted on this and decided, overwhelmingly, to allow HP in the SOT. I don't understand why we're having this discussion again.
ok so whenever a ruling is made, no matter how wrong it is because its an older ruling, we shouldn't change it to fix the rules? thats logic won't get us anywhere, if its been brought up again its usually because its a valid concern.
Yes they are playing to get better, I understand that. But how is spamming a card you should of ripped because your deck 'has it' every game gonna teach you that you can't rely on that card? its not. It just teaches bad practices. You can't rely on hp every game in a tournament (which this is a tournament, even if it is for fun) why should you be able to do it here? Anyone who knows me, knows I'm not big on oh noes its serious but how can one test out a deck seriously when someone can just spam hp every game you play against them? People online (As far as I can see) will use hp without a second thought while someone using it irl will think because they WILL lose a card. Why deprive the game of what was put into it? Its like if you were going to play anb, you are going to consider what you are going to lose territory wise before slapping it down. But unlike anb, hp has no drawback online.
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ok so whenever a ruling is made, no matter how wrong it is because its an older ruling, we shouldn't change it to fix the rules? thats logic won't get us anywhere, if its been brought up again its usually because its a valid concern.
That's obviously not what I'm saying, and is a completely different topic. Everyone who is currently playing in the tournament, with the exception of Sean and a few others who appear to not care at all about this discussion, has already voted on the topic. The majority is, and was, clearly in favor or HP in this tournament, and so I don't see what the point of voting once again is.
Yes they are playing to get better, I understand that. But how is spamming a card you should of ripped because your deck 'has it' every game gonna teach you that you can't rely on that card? its not. It just teaches bad practices.
Deck spamming? How many people, really, have you seen playing HP in this tournament so far? I have seen exactly one, and it was a dedicated brown deck. This argument seems irrelevant to me, because nobody's doing it.
You can't rely on hp every game in a tournament (which this is a tournament, even if it is for fun) why should you be able to do it here? Anyone who knows me, knows I'm not big on oh noes its serious but how can one test out a deck seriously when someone can just spam hp every game you play against them? People online (As far as I can see) will use hp without a second thought while someone using it irl will think because they WILL lose a card. Why deprive the game of what was put into it? Its like if you were going to play anb, you are going to consider what you are going to lose territory wise before slapping it down. But unlike anb, hp has no drawback online.
That's still beside the point. Drawback or no drawback, people should have the opportunity to play decks with the express intention of learning the game better in this type of tournament.
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I'm so glad that all this whining :'( and complaining :( got moved to it's own thread. Thank you, RR! :)
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I personally don't think that this needs a rule for an online tournament. I think if a player intends to use Haman's Plot in a competitive game, they should be prepared to rip it. If they aren't comfortable with that, they should ask their opponent before the game starts.
I personally would never make anyone rip a Haman's Plot in anything other than a real tournament, but that's just my opinion on the matter. It's a rule, and bending it let my opponent keep a useful card doesn't bother me, but people wanting to use the card should be prepared to follow it. In anything but a friendly game, you should rip Haman's Plot, unless your opponent is ok with you not ripping it.
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I agree with Tsavong that the current members of the tourney voted to allow HP to be used without a real card being torn. If you want to change the rules, then I would suggest asking SS for a re-vote at the start of the next round with the players in that round.
I agree with Sir Nobody that allowing people to play HP in their deck is the best way to test your deck against a real tournament experience. I don't like seeing HP in my opponent's deck, and I usually don't put it in mine. However, if I want to win a big tournament, then I better be able to beat a deck with HP in it. And as for someone playing it every round when they couldn't do that in a regular tournament, that is really only hurting themselves. That might mean that I would have to face a HP every round, but that could actually happen in a tournament, so it is good practice for me. But they will not be able to really play it every round in a tournament so they will not be getting as good practice.
I agree with Gabe that I'm glad this whole discussion got moved to a separate thread.
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This is how I think we should do it, to be fair to both players: Both players must agree that it isn't shady to use, and both agree that it is fair game.
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For an online tournament, could you just assume that players are allowed to check in either 2-3 decks (depends on the number of rounds), and say that they're only allowed to use that number of Haman's Plots?
I realize I don't know anything about Substitute Online Tournament, and I don't think that idea would have worked with Jacob's Ladder due to the ongoing, tournament that never ends nature of the thing, but if you're playing like a real tournament, with a specified number of rounds per amount of time (one month long tournament, round robin), then I think that allowing a player only a certain amount of uses of a Haman's Plot would be the fairest thing to do.
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I think it should stay..It gets removed from the game what more do you want!?! and asking beforehand is like sayinghey would you like toplay esther or not?It gives away your defense
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I'm an advocater of a new HP with a "remove from game" ability instead - a UR version. I mean, come on; Brown hardly has anything else going for it! :dunno:
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I'm an advocater of a new HP with a "remove from game" ability instead - a UR version. I mean, come on; Brown hardly has anything else going for it! :dunno:
HA. Don't worry, it will be fine. =D
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lol, yes it will
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I'm an advocater of a new HP with a "remove from game" ability instead - a UR version. I mean, come on; Brown hardly has anything else going for it! :dunno:
O_o have you played vs brown? its insanely powerful.
Also I have played 3 times vs an HP (diff games each time) and it always leaves my gut turning. I use brown and don't use HP because I refuse to rip it, that includes online :-p I know people who use HP in online that wouldn't even consider it in IRL. I completely agree with prof that it is great training. I'm fine with the tournament, I still play, I just really hate seeing HP used as if it was a normal battle winner.
*To people who thanked me*
Its no problem, I rather have the discussion here than the tournament thread. It is just something that urks me. (And in type nw cost me a game ;) )
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It seems to me that some players aren't understanding the original intent of the SOT (Substitute Online Tournament, ie. Not Officially Sanctioned) with emphasis on the Substitute. This is not replacing Jacob's Ladder (Officially Sanctioned) in anyway. The Ladder was not active and SS thought is would be fun to have something going in the meantime, with some looser rules. There were no prizes in the beginning and if prizes are causing the argument of how "Official" this tournament is and leading to an HP supercard blowout, I would suggest "No Prizes". They were offered outta someones pocket as an incentive to attract more players, but not in anyway to imply "Official" anything. I am saddened to see where this has gone over one lousy card. Isn't this game for FUN and FELLOWSHIP? then why all the quibbling? This enviroment was intended to promote players to play what they had designed, come up with new ideas, improve on ideas, but all in all to have fun with RTS. There was nothing to imply that you could only use cards you owned, Haman's Plot was voted on and agreed to be used "UNRIPPED" in this Substitute Online Tournament (ie: Unofficial) for players new and old, skilled and unskilled, competitive or non-competitive. How would many newer players feel if they didn't have/couldn't afford the Uber cards that some have said you had to own in order to use them on RTS? Nonesense. In this FUN tournament, any player should be able to use any legal Redemption card in RTS to build his or her deck. This may be the only time for them to be able to use the so-called Super cards at this time in their Redemption playing career. There are future Champions floating around here, so let them indulge in an Unofficlal SOT and use/build whatever is legal for them to use.
I had planned on rejoining the SOT, but I'm rethinking that decision at this point. Everyone has beaten their opinion into the ground and it now is only tiresome to read. SS came up with the SOT and it is his to run. I support SS in all that he is doing to promote Redemption through the SOT.
Godspeed,
Mike
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Fact: Being fair to all = Unfair to fun and fellowship. Oh wells. I shall accept my lot in life and by that... welll you'll see.
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For the new Official Online Tournament I think it's appropriate that if you play a Haman's Plot you must rip an untorn Haman's Plot in half as the card states.
The reason for the change of heart is that this is now official, sponsored by Cactus Games, with prizes and RNRS points. I expect that we should be required to follow all official rules.
For the record I still don't feel that people should have to rip a HP in unofficial, casual or test games.
Gabe
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I agree with Gabe on this, though my position on non tournament games is that it should not need to be ripped.
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what if we don't have hp, eh?
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what if we don't have hp, eh?
Then you can't play it. Another rule that was enforced with Jacob's Ladder when it was sanctioned (and should be considered this time as well) is that you can't play with cards you don't own. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I could see it both ways. Ponder this I will. ::)
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Then, like a physical tournament, you can't use it.
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what if we don't have hp, eh?
Then you can't play it. Another rule that was enforced with Jacob's Ladder when it was sanctioned (and should be considered this time as well) is that you can't play with cards you don't own. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I could see it both ways. Ponder this I will. ::)
how exactly was that enforced?I mean he can't very well come from 10 states up just tolook thorugh my collection and I agree about the HP being ripped now
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what if we don't have hp, eh?
Then you can't play it. Another rule that was enforced with Jacob's Ladder when it was sanctioned (and should be considered this time as well) is that you can't play with cards you don't own. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I could see it both ways. Ponder this I will. ::)
how exactly was that enforced?I mean he can't very well come from 10 states up just tolook thorugh my collection and I agree about the HP being ripped now
We'll go on the honor system, I believe. Or show it to someone you know IRL and they can confirm you did it (if they are a board user).
I don't think we should do the "must own a card to play it" idea. I always thought online tournaments were great because they gave you freedom to try out new ideas, and see how you fare. I know it could be done in non-tournament games, but many people won't be able to play as many/with the same people. Doesn't really matter to me how it is ruled to me, though. I believe I have every card in the deck I'm using aside from 1, and that can be easily rectified... ;)
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what if we don't have hp, eh?
Then you can't play it. Another rule that was enforced with Jacob's Ladder when it was sanctioned (and should be considered this time as well) is that you can't play with cards you don't own. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I could see it both ways. Ponder this I will. ::)
how exactly was that enforced?I mean he can't very well come from 10 states up just tolook thorugh my collection and I agree about the HP being ripped now
We'll go on the honor system, I believe. Or show it to someone you know IRL and they can confirm you did it (if they are a board user).
I don't think we should do the "must own a card to play it" idea. I always thought online tournaments were great because they gave you freedom to try out new ideas, and see how you fare. I know it could be done in non-tournament games, but many people won't be able to play as many/with the same people. Doesn't really matter to me how it is ruled to me, though. I believe I have every card in the deck I'm using aside from 1, and that can be easily rectified... ;)
i say HP is NOT to be ripped online EVEN if it is sacontioned!
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I have to agree with RED. Except with the official Online tourney. Its a card simulator. Thats whats fun about it. If you were playing a simulation game in which you had to run 50 miles, do you have to do that in real life? Heck no. But if its RNRS, yes, rip it.
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Hey,
I think it is worth noting that none of the prizes (packs) mentioned for ROOT are awarded based on winning games. In fact players that don't win a lot of games have a better chance of getting prize packs than players that win most of their games. The RNRS points are awarded to the players that win the most games, but no prize (pack-wise) has been announced for the RNRS champion for the year either. While it is now official and now has prizes those characteristics seem to be an attempt to increase participation not an attempt to reward success in the event.
I would like to see players continue to be allowed to use cards that they do not own. I believe that encourages more players to participate. And I don't see any drawback to letting players use cards they don't own.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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While it is now official and now has prizes those characteristics seem to be an attempt to increase participation not an attempt to reward success in the event.
Very astute observation Sir Nobody. Indeed the prizes are set up in a way to encourage the most participation. Hopefully the people who most need the packs will get the packs, and the people who don't need packs anymore will hopefully be attracted by the RNRS points :)
As for the Haman's Plot issue, my main concern is having a rule that can't be enforced. As a teacher, I have been trained to avoid doing that sort of thing. So here's my main question. For those of you who want HP to be physically torn...what would be a way to actually ensure that this actually happened. And for all our sake, please make it be something that would be relatively easy (ie. not having to video the whole thing and post it on YouTube) :)
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don't tell me i have to OWN the cards in my deck that i have on rts to play in the tournament
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While it is now official and now has prizes those characteristics seem to be an attempt to increase participation not an attempt to reward success in the event.
And for all our sake, please make it be something that would be relatively easy (ie. not having to video the whole thing and post it on YouTube) :)
video chat!
and that is a very good point I have no idea how that would work
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I would like to weigh in (I've talked/PM a few people privately about it.)
I think people should be able to play with cards they don't own. This tourney was meant to encourage a lot of participation and to allow newer players an opportunity to play with people of different skills & decks to learn the game. Even to learn which cards they like and would buy if they don't own. If anything, I think not owning a card and getting used to it in your deck promotes and encourages people to get it. They've gotten used to using it, and they will need it come "live" tournament time.
As far as Haman's Plot, I could go either way and don't really care about the ultimate conclusion. Personally, I like a game to be as close to "real life tournament reality" as possible. People play with Haman's Plot, and I must be ready to face it and get around it. I've had them played on me all through the last 6 months. I say "good block" or "bummer" and move on. If the majority decides on having them ripped, then I would suggest an investment of another $0.42 and mail the torn card to your opponent. Honestly, there is really no easy way to keep a check on this. Personally, I think if someone wants to sell their integrity and soul for an online tournament then they got bigger problems than losing a $5 card.
Just my 2 credits. I still stand by my original purpose statement: the tourney was created for all of our enjoyment and fellowship. (A good byproduct is making all of us better, so Nats will be even harder to win.)
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i say HP is NOT to be ripped online EVEN if it is sacontioned!
Then you're a stones throw away from claiming that you shouldn't have to rip it if you use it in an official tournament. I have no problem with people using cards they don't own. People borrow cards from other people for tournament decks all the time. I have a friend who played with a deck that was 52/53 borrowed. There's nothing in the rules that says you have to own your deck or the cards you're using. Haman's Plot does say you have to rip it.
I say you need to rip it in the online tournaments and remove it from your deck after it has been done so. There should be a firmer set on how many decks you're allowed to use as well, IMO. If you only use one deck, then I'd be fine with you being able to use it twice (analogous to checking in two of the same deck), as long as you tear two Plots.
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You are totally contradicting yourself.
I think people should be able to play with cards they don't own. This tourney was meant to encourage a lot of participation and to allow newer players an opportunity to play with people of different skills & decks to learn the game.
Personally, I like a game to be as close to "real life tournament reality" as possible.
If you want real like, then why are you fine with playing with cards you don't own. So, would you be fine with people playing HP without ripping if they DIDNT own it but you want them to rip it if they DO own it!? I don't get it.
If the majority decides on having them ripped, then I would suggest an investment of another $0.42 and mail the torn card to your opponent.
Wow, this would be the faster way ever for the SOT to be substituted with another online tourny.
Personally, I think if someone wants to sell their integrity and soul for an online tournament then they got bigger problems than losing a $5 card.
How do you say this and this:
I still stand by my original purpose statement: the tourney was created for all of our enjoyment and fellowship.
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Thanks for calling me out, others might have been confused with the ideas that I was trying to convey.
You are totally contradicting yourself.
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I think people should be able to play with cards they don't own. This tourney was meant to encourage a lot of participation and to allow newer players an opportunity to play with people of different skills & decks to learn the game.
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Personally, I like a game to be as close to "real life tournament reality" as possible.
If you want real like, then why are you fine with playing with cards you don't own. So, would you be fine with people playing HP without ripping if they DIDNT own it but you want them to rip it if they DO own it!? I don't get it.
I don't think I'm contradicting myself at all. You took two different statements and trains of thoughts from two different paragraphs. I don't mind people not owning cards at all. As for the second statement, me...myself....I....personally, am a competitive person who likes to challenge myself. I want the very best someone can throw at me. I want to get better, and playing the best makes me better. Not everyone is like me, it is just what makes me tick. So, both statements are true in my mind. The reality is what I will face at tournaments. At tournaments, not everyone uses their own cards. At tournaments, I have had HPs ripped against me. Both of those things have happened to me in reality and I was okay with both. They make me a better player.
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If the majority decides on having them ripped, then I would suggest an investment of another $0.42 and mail the torn card to your opponent.
Wow, this would be the faster way ever for the SOT to be substituted with another online tourny.
Prof wanted suggestions, so I gave one. I don't know why the suggestion offended you so much especially since I can't remember you playing in any of the SOTs yet. If you have a suggestion, then give it. That is what Prof asked for.
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Personally, I think if someone wants to sell their integrity and soul for an online tournament then they got bigger problems than losing a $5 card.
How do you say this and this:
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I still stand by my original purpose statement: the tourney was created for all of our enjoyment and fellowship.
I stand by both statements. First statement: I was just pointing out that if someone is out to deceive others or had it in their mind to get away with cheating then they have some major spiritual problems. I think that everyone should keep the game in perspective. Which leads to the second statement that you qouted: this game is to be enjoyed and to have fellowship with other Christians. Maybe even to learn a little Bible. People shouldn't let winning (which trying to cheat with HP may be a symptom of) get in the way of that.
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Hey,
I've had them played on me all through the last 6 months. I say "good block" or "bummer" and move on.
Your comment today was "that's not cool" :D
If the majority decides on having them ripped, then I would suggest an investment of another $0.42 and mail the torn card to your opponent.
That doesn't stop people from mailing previously torn plots. I've got a collection of about 10 torn Haman's plots, so I could play for a couple months before I'd actually have to tear a new one. Also when I tear one it goes to my collection, so I wouldn't be able to mail it to my opponent :D Of course method of verification doesn't really matter to me because if it's decided we have to tear them I'll just stop using them in this tournament, despite the fact that that significantly reduces the point of me playing in this tournament.
If we do require tearing plots I would hope we can use an honors system. Anything else is more hassle than its worth. I'd like to think we are comfortable trusting the integrity of members of the redemption community, but I guess the fact that we already require RTS means apparently we don't.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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tearing a real life hamans plot for an online redemption SIMULATOR is about as asinine as it gets. seriously, this is about as sad as redemption has ever come.
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tearing a real life hamans plot for an online redemption SIMULATOR is about as asinine as it gets. seriously, this is about as sad as redemption has ever come.
It is still an official tournament. Just because it's online doesn't mean rules can be changed. Imagine having different rules with different hosts.
I guess you can tell that I'm in favor of the ripage.
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Hey,
Imagine having different rules with different hosts.
I don't have to imagine, I've been there. :D
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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tearing a real life hamans plot for an online redemption SIMULATOR is about as asinine as it gets. seriously, this is about as sad as redemption has ever come.
It is still an official tournament. Just because it's online doesn't mean rules can be changed. Imagine having different rules with different hosts.
I guess you can tell that I'm in favor of the ripage.
I have been following this conversation with a little bit of disbelief until this statement. Is the SOT a sanctioned tournament event? With Prizes and RNRS points? If so then I say we require the Torn HT and if someone decided not to tear it when they play it, just leave it at that. It is on their conscious and in reality there is nothing you can do besides ban the card from SOT play.
but if SOT is NOT a sanctioned tournament with no RNRS points and no prizes then why even bother with it? Let people play with the card and just adjust your decks to counter it. There are several counters to this card anyway (protection forts for your EC, etc. and heroes can be recurred from discard piles) so I dont see why everyone is all flustered about it?
So is it a real, sanctioned tournament event? IF so that stinks because that thread ALWAYS CRASHES MY INTERNET! so I take issue with that and say it is unfair that some people have access to a tournament that I cant have access to.
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No, SOT is not a sanctioned tourny event. We did have a FSP, but that was from a 3rd party (Gabe)
tearing a real life hamans plot for an online redemption SIMULATOR is about as asinine as it gets. seriously, this is about as sad as redemption has ever come.
It is still an official tournament. Just because it's online doesn't mean rules can be changed. Imagine having different rules with different hosts.
I guess you can tell that I'm in favor of the ripage.
It may be a organized tournament but it is not official.
tearing a real life hamans plot for an online redemption SIMULATOR is about as asinine as it gets. seriously, this is about as sad as redemption has ever come.
+1
I don't know why the suggestion offended you so much especially since I can't remember you playing in any of the SOTs yet.
I'm not offended, I just think that that is not a good way for the SOT to go. Like SirNobody said, why are we assuming the Redemption community is not truthful?
For the new Official Online Tournament I think it's appropriate that if you play a Haman's Plot you must rip an untorn Haman's Plot in half as the card states.
The reason for the change of heart is that this is now official, sponsored by Cactus Games, with prizes and RNRS points. I expect that we should be required to follow all official rules.
For the record I still don't feel that people should have to rip a HP in unofficial, casual or test games.
Gabe
When did this happen? Or are you talking in "ifs"?
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No, SOT is not a sanctioned tourny event.
For the record, we are no longer talking about the SoT. We're talking about ROOT. It's official. It's sancationed. There are RNRS points.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=14793.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=14793.0)
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No, SOT is not a sanctioned tourny event. We did have a FSP, but that was from a 3rd party (Gabe)
It may be a organized tournament but it is not official.
Indeed the SOT was not official, although it was a well-run tournament with a lot of participation. However, it has now transitioned into ROOT, which is official. Therefore, this discussion is very relevant.
As for the suggestion of mailing the torn plot, I agree with Sir Nobody that it would be possible for people to just keep mailing around the same torn plots repeatedly. However, if a person had to NEATLY print their name in big letters on their plot before tearing it, then this could work. No one could remail a HP because it would have someone else's name on it. This would also be kinda cool because you would end up with a collection of all the HPs that had ever been torn on you, signed by all those people.
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just ban HP porplem solved!
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No, SOT is not a sanctioned tourny event.
For the record, we are no longer talking about the SoT. We're talking about ROOT. It's official. It's sancationed. There are RNRS points.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=14793.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=14793.0)
that that was what I was missing. ok, that changes the situation a bit.
Since there are RNRS points I must agree that ripping HP is required. However, I"m not sure about the mailing. What about ripping it, writing your name and date, then taking a picture of it and emailing it? That would solve the problem.
Or, of course, honor system is another way to do it. Some may cheat, but most won't.
Cameron
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Instead of requiring a player to rip HP maybe we should just "restrict" it's use the way we do at real life tournaments.
Even at a high level tournament like Nationals, you can only check in 3 decks for T1-2P. That mean that you can rip no more than 3 Haman's Plots during that tournament. For ROOT we could enforce a limit of three HP's per tournament (or month) per player. It could be easily tracked if players were required to report the torn HP when they reported the score.
This way nobody has to worry about ripping cards. Nobody has to worry about mailing proof. Nobody has to worry about signing cards to prove it's actually the one you ripped. Nobody has to worry about not being able to play HP because they don't own one. And we mirror a real life tournament more closely.
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Instead of requiring a player to rip HP maybe we should just "restrict" it's use the way we do at real life tournaments.
Even at a high level tournament like Nationals, you can only check in 3 decks for T1-2P. That mean that you can rip no more than 3 Haman's Plots during that tournament. For ROOT we could enforce a limit of three HP's per tournament (or month) per player. It could be easily tracked if players were required to report the torn HP when they reported the score.
This way nobody has to worry about ripping cards. Nobody has to worry about mailing proof. Nobody has to worry about signing cards to prove it's actually the one you ripped. Nobody has to worry about not being able to play HP because they don't own one. And we mirror a real life tournament more closely.
+1 (especially since HP is one of my main trading cards :))
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Instead of requiring a player to rip HP maybe we should just "restrict" it's use the way we do at real life tournaments.
Even at a high level tournament like Nationals, you can only check in 3 decks for T1-2P. That mean that you can rip no more than 3 Haman's Plots during that tournament. For ROOT we could enforce a limit of three HP's per tournament (or month) per player. It could be easily tracked if players were required to report the torn HP when they reported the score.
This way nobody has to worry about ripping cards. Nobody has to worry about mailing proof. Nobody has to worry about signing cards to prove it's actually the one you ripped. Nobody has to worry about not being able to play HP because they don't own one. And we mirror a real life tournament more closely.
I like Gabe's idea...in a month's time, the max number of games is 12. You only get to use 3 plots or 2 because this is equivalent to a district? I could keep a running track beside their names or at the bottom. It should be easy enough.
To Cameron and Matt (crustpope), SoT is official now...we just call it ROOT and it has it's own sticky under Official Tournaments. I consider it the same tourney because it is under the same management and same rules. We are just sponsored now. Because of the sponsorship by Cactus is why this discussion is being had for the 3rd time.
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...in a month's time, the max number of games is 12. You only get to use 3 plots or 2 because this is equivalent to a district? I could keep a running track beside their names or at the bottom. It should be easy enough.
The way we determine how many decks a person can register in a real tournament (thus the number of HPs they can potentially rip) is by the number of rounds that will be played. Even at a districts if there were going to be enough rounds you could register 3 decks and rip three HPs. I forget if the cut off between registering 2 or 3 decks is 5 or 6 rounds (or games in this case). Either way a month of ROOT offers more than that.
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I also like this idea of Gabe's. It seems to be a good compromise.
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Hey,
We're talking about ROOT. It's official. It's sancationed. There are RNRS points.
There really aren't RNRS points. We can call them RNRS points, but they don't count towards any of the existing six categories and there is no established prize as of yet for the person that accumulates the most in a years time. So they don't have anything in common with RNRS points as we know them.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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could it possibly be called ROOTNRS? ::)
Redemption Official Online Tournament National Ranking System. :D
Godspeed,
Mike
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ROFL!!!
that's clever, mike :laugh:
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There really aren't RNRS points. We can call them RNRS points...
Well since Rob called them RNRS points when I talked to him, I think that is good enough for me. You are right that they are in a separate (7th) category, but they are still RNRS.
I know it's new, so I understand your confusion.
P.S. As for Gabe's suggestion about reporting HP usage with the scores, that is just a bit more trouble for Soul Seeker to keep track of, but if he's willing to do it, then I would be fine with that as a solution if that is the final decision.
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Just to chime in, since I'll hopefully be able to dive back in to online play in a couple months when school slows down:
I really like Gabe's idea. It restricts people who have a zillion HPs and can play them every game, but it allows new players to use (and learn) a powerful card once in a while. This is still an online tournament, and I think ripping HPs outside of a physical tournament setting is silly. If we're voting, allowing three HPs a month and posting a usage along with the game scores definitely has my support.
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So have we decided anything about this? What are we doing w HP?
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So have we decided anything about this? What are we doing w HP?
This is still an issue that we are looking at, and are open to input on. I suspect that we will announce the decision at the start of the next round so that the rule will be consistent throughout the tournament.
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Well since a rule like that is virtually impossible to enforce, I say just ban HP for online.
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At this point they are looking for new ideas. Saying the same thing over and over is not a new idea. You have given your input and it has not gone unnoticed. Everyone's input is valuable in the decision-making process. However, now that you've said it, please stop repeating it.
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...What are you talking about?
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Well since a rule like that is virtually impossible to enforce, I say just ban HP for online.
No! Thats ridiculous. It shouldnt have to be ripped in person in the first place. :P
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It shouldn't have been made in the first place.
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Well sorry...it was :P
Now, Angry Mob shouldnt have been made.
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Well sorry...it was :P
Now, Angry Mob shouldnt have been made.
aw come on.
angry mob is what ties my two faced deck together.
flip of a coin and "heads: you get to keep your head, Tails: not so lucky"
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Why don't we just ask Rob what he wants to be done? That would settle any and all arguments. Whether people agree or disagree, frankly, wouldn't matter.
We've checked with Rob to see if he feels strongly about a couple topics (Haman's Plot included) and he's leaving it up to the people he's entrusted to run the tournament. His only strong feeling on the matter is that he doesn't want to see any cards banned.
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I would either like the old rule reinstated (due to it being completely official, and no longer just a supported catagory) or there to be a limiter per month. Like say 2?
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Hm...a twice a month rule wouldn't be completely uninforcable; the opponent of the player could report whether he used HP.
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Yeah, that was what I was thinking. just every time you report a score, report a HP score with it lol. I beat Soul Seeker 5-0 and played `1 hamans plot or something like that.
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A more reliable option would be to have the opponent report a HP used against them, since they are more likely to remember. ;)
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I fully agree with the limit on hp rather than
banning or requiring it to be torn.
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Yeah, that was what I was thinking. just every time you report a score, report a HP score with it lol. I beat Soul Seeker 5-0 and played `1 hamans plot or something like that.
First, I would like to address the ludicrousness of this post. I may be a n00b, but (to my knowledge which I'm 99.999% sure) I don't get skunked...ever. I request an edit of "5-1 loss," it hurts the great reputation of noobiness that I have earned on this board. :P
On a more serious note, I have made the final ruling on the ROOT rules page (#1) and on the current last page (#12). I think it is the best one and I would like to thank Gabe for coming up with it.
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Yeah, that was what I was thinking. just every time you report a score, report a HP score with it lol. I beat Soul Seeker 5-0 and played `1 hamans plot or something like that.
First, I would like to address the ludicrousness of this post. I may be a n00b, but (to my knowledge which I'm 99.999% sure) I don't get skunked...ever. I request an edit of "5-1 loss," it hurts the great reputation of noobiness that I have earned on this board. :P
On a more serious note, I have made the final ruling on the ROOT rules page (#1) and on the current last page (#12). I think it is the best one and I would like to thank Gabe for coming up with it.
oOoOoOoOoOoOohhhh I think I ruffled someones feathers. let me see if I can one up myself. IU>UNC ;D ;D ;D
of course then I wake up and realize my beloved hoosiers, in the greatedt state of the union, are no where near the march dancing floor. what sort of parralel universe have I awoken too?
BTW, I fully agree with the ruling. props to Gabe for suggesting it. it makes perfet sense given that we will play about 12 rounds per month, I say we treat it like any other tournament in as many respects as we can.
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Yeah, that was what I was thinking. just every time you report a score, report a HP score with it lol. I beat Soul Seeker 5-0 and played `1 hamans plot or something like that.
First, I would like to address the ludicrousness of this post. I may be a n00b, but (to my knowledge which I'm 99.999% sure) I don't get skunked...ever. I request an edit of "5-1 loss," it hurts the great reputation of noobiness that I have earned on this board. :P
On a more serious note, I have made the final ruling on the ROOT rules page (#1) and on the current last page (#12). I think it is the best one and I would like to thank Gabe for coming up with it.
let me see if I can one up myself. IU>UNC ;D ;D ;D
this post barely deserves the time or this sentence to even dignify the above statement, but at least you realized this:
of course then I wake up and realize my beloved hoosiers, in the greatedt state of the union, are no where near the march dancing floor. what sort of parralel universe have I awoken too?
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If someone rips a Haman's Plot against you, then please report it when you report your score
I'm probably going to join ROOT soon. Are people expected to actually rip or are we just counting the number of times HP is used by each person?
Nobody is required to rip Haman's Plot for ROOT. We've decided to limit it's use to 3 times per tournament which is the same number of time you'd be able to use it in a live 12 game tournament. When you report the score we ask that you also report if a Haman's Plot was used against you. So far we've had 0 Haman's Plots used in March to my knowledge.