I think I see a solution. One of the overarching rules in Redemption is that when a special ability is being carried out, no other abilities can activate - even abilities that were triggered by the card that is being carried out must wait until the card is carried out. (There are a few exceptions, like Instead abilities, but they don't matter for the sake of this discussion.)
NJ is unique in that it has the phrase "Play this card simultaneously..." in it. I think a simple game rule about the word "Simultaneously", or cards with abilities that allow them to be played simultaneously with other cards, is all we need.
Simply make the definition of "Simultaneously" something similar to this:
"When a card has an ability that allows it to be played simultaneously with another card, and that other card is played, the card with the simultaneous ability may be played immediately before the triggering card is activated. The simultaneous ability is now pending, but it cannot activate while the first card is completing. The triggering card is then carried out, and the simultaneous card will activate once the triggering card has completed."
I see 2 major benefits:
1. NJ becomes playable.
2. It opens up "Simultaneous" abilities for future cards. These have never been explored due to the headaches caused by NJ in the past. If we codify simple and logical rules for "simultaneous", I think we just created a new keyword ;)
I like where your idea is going though I just have two thoughts.
--We'll still have conflicts such as player A using SoG to rescue one LS and then players B and C both trying to play New Jerusalem to rescue the only other LS on the table (after SoG resolves).
--What other card types besides dominants would even work as "simultaneously" abilities? I suppose maybe TC placed enhancements (i.e. Gam's Speech, Treasures of War, Paying Taxes et al)?
I like where your idea is going though I just have two thoughts.
--We'll still have conflicts such as player A using SoG to rescue one LS and then players B and C both trying to play New Jerusalem to rescue the only other LS on the table (after SoG resolves).
--What other card types besides dominants would even work as "simultaneously" abilities?
Well one only Dom so far has simultaneously as part of the ability. I just wouldn't print anymore doms like that.
I see your point but this is a pretty important card. Plus, like Josh mentioned "simultaneous" special abilities can be printed for everything else not a dom. If simultaneous abilities are not going to be printed in the future, I personally would sacrifice taking two steps back for a card this important. I see this basically requiring the same amount of effort it took to ban the two liner which improved the game just like this would do.Well one only Dom so far has simultaneously as part of the ability. I just wouldn't print anymore doms like that.
Which then brings us back to the "one ruling for one card" issue ;)
Believe me, I'm one of the Elders who wants to see NJ playable again, but I don't want us to take one step forward and two steps back. 8)
I like where your idea is going though I just have two thoughts.
--We'll still have conflicts such as player A using SoG to rescue one LS and then players B and C both trying to play New Jerusalem to rescue the only other LS on the table (after SoG resolves).
--What other card types besides dominants would even work as "simultaneously" abilities? I suppose maybe TC placed enhancements (i.e. Gam's Speech, Treasures of War, Paying Taxes et al)?
Could someone explain the issue with few words in a simplified manner?
What's even the point of NJ now that we have TSC? There is no reason for choosing NJ over TSC or am I mistaken? I think that's pretty sad that NJ became so much weaker..
Could someone explain the issue with few words in a simplified manner?
What's even the point of NJ now that we have TSC? There is no reason for choosing NJ over TSC or am I mistaken? I think that's pretty sad that NJ became so much weaker..
Could someone explain the issue with few words in a simplified manner?
What's even the point of NJ now that we have TSC? There is no reason for choosing NJ over TSC or am I mistaken? I think that's pretty sad that NJ became so much weaker..
Quote from: YeshuaIsLordCould someone explain the issue with few words in a simplified manner?
What's even the point of NJ now that we have TSC? There is no reason for choosing NJ over TSC or am I mistaken? I think that's pretty sad that NJ became so much weaker..
About the only negative to TSC is that it can be stopped/hindered by anti-search abilities like Hezekiah's Signet Ring. New Jerusalem was boosted somewhat in the Revelation of John set by New Jerusalem/Bride of Christ, One of Seven, and The Woman with Child (which also boosts TSC), but it definitely is much weaker than TSC as we all know. I agree that it is sad and I'm definitely hoping that something will be done through this thread! :)
Quote from: YeshuaIsLordCould someone explain the issue with few words in a simplified manner?
What's even the point of NJ now that we have TSC? There is no reason for choosing NJ over TSC or am I mistaken? I think that's pretty sad that NJ became so much weaker..
About the only negative to TSC is that it can be stopped/hindered by anti-search abilities like Hezekiah's Signet Ring. New Jerusalem was boosted somewhat in the Revelation of John set by New Jerusalem/Bride of Christ, One of Seven, and The Woman with Child (which also boosts TSC), but it definitely is much weaker than TSC as we all know. I agree that it is sad and I'm definitely hoping that something will be done through this thread! :)
I'm also all for nerfing TSC, but sadly, boosting NJ is not the best way to go about that.
Now, if TSC gets an errata where it can't be in the same deck as SoG (instead of NJ), and NJ can be played with other players' SoGs... That would be more interesting ;)
Simply make the definition of "Simultaneously" something similar to this:
"When a card has an ability that allows it to be played simultaneously with another card, and that other card is played, the card with the simultaneous ability may be played immediately before the triggering card is activated. The simultaneous ability is now pending, but it cannot activate while the first card is completing. The triggering card is then carried out, and the simultaneous card will activate once the triggering card has completed."
Unlike NJ, TSC promotes strategy. This makes for more interesting games.
These advantages wont affect most games though and with proper deck building there shouldnt be a big difference.
I definitely want to steer away from dominant rescues. I like the battles!
+1 versatility≠ strategyUnlike NJ, TSC promotes strategy. This makes for more interesting games.
TSC gives you more decisions to make, but those decisions are still autopilot decisions. Is there a LS in opponent's LoB that is ruining your deck? Play SoG earlier, since TSC can bail you out later.These advantages wont affect most games though and with proper deck building there shouldnt be a big difference.
The big thing missing from your analysis is that playing SoG twice (and possibly much earlier in the game) is huge when LS abilities can be oppressive against certain decks. Being able to dump SoG early to get rid of your opponent's Dull can easily be game-changing. Can't do that if you have to hold SoG and wait for NJ.I definitely want to steer away from dominant rescues. I like the battles!
I (and it seems like most other players) agree with this, but TSC doesn't really change this vs. NJ. TSC is just another SoG or AotL rescue. You still redeem 3 LS each game w/ SoG/TSC/AotL, the only difference is you don't know which Dom TSC is going to copy.