Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Topic started by: h20tor on September 14, 2017, 03:19:58 PM
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I was reading in Revelations and came across Chapter 18:23 which says:
"and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery." (ESV)
I checked out a few other translations and all the ones I checked either said magic, spell or sorcery.
So I was wondering if Babylon/the Harlot should have Magician as an identifier??
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Which book is Revenlations? :P ;)
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Which book is Revenlations? :P ;)
What?
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I think he was trying to point out that it's Revelation, not Revelations, but messed up the spelling himself.
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I've heard more than one Pastor refer to it as the Book of Revelations. In the same way that Acts and Acts of the Apostles are one in the same... But either way, that's not what the thread is for. :)
Babylon/The Harlot - magician?!
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https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5331&t=NASB (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5331&t=NASB) Blueletterbible.com is a great place for cross reference of the greek. It does look like the greek could be interpreted as more just general deception as in idolatry related deception. Although one of the bigger uses of the greek word does convey sorcery, especially Biblical usage of the word.
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I've heard more than one Pastor refer to it as the Book of Revelations. In the same way that Acts and Acts of the Apostles are one in the same... But either way, that's not what the thread is for. :)
Babylon/The Harlot - magician?!
I know that this Revelation/Revelations got off topic but just wanted to clear it up. Regardless of what a pastor says is irrelevant if that pastor(s) simply doesn't read the title of the book: Revelation. There weren't multiple revelations, it was one big revelation. And for the record, it's actually the Revelation of (or from) Jesus Christ, as denoted in 1:1, not Revelation of John.
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And for the record, it's actually the Revelation of (or from) Jesus Christ, as denoted in 1:1, not Revelation of John.
I was also thinking this when the set name was announced. (This could go in a separate thread).
Any Elders to chime in on the Magician aspect?
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Based on the Bible verse, which does indeed say sorcery/magic/witchcraft in a variety of versions, I would say she could qualify as a magician, as much as she qualifies as a human. Since she is the symbolic representation of the city of Babylon/all wicked cities of the earth (depending on your interpretation of Revelation), but we made her human, so I don't see a good argument to exclude her. We have given the magician identifier to others based on a single verse describing a magician act (Laban and his divining from Genesis 30:27) so there is certainly precedent
I'd let another elder or two weigh in before planning all of your Harlot/magician decks, but unless anyone else strongly disagrees, I'd say she counts.
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Based on the Bible verse, which does indeed say sorcery/magic/witchcraft in a variety of versions, I would say she could qualify as a magician, as much as she qualifies as a human. Since she is the symbolic representation of the city of Babylon/all wicked cities of the earth (depending on your interpretation of Revelation), but we made her human, so I don't see a good argument to exclude her. We have given the magician identifier to others based on a single verse describing a magician act (Laban and his divining from Genesis 30:27) so there is certainly precedent
I'd let another elder or two weigh in before planning all of your Harlot/magician decks, but unless anyone else strongly disagrees, I'd say she counts.
+1
That also means Whore of Babylon (L) or Whore of Babylon (UL) or Babylon the Great (Wa) gain that identifier since they are the same unique character.
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I'm on board.
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I assume it would only be a magician while it's an evil character right?
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Correct--just as she is only a human as an EC.
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Would have been nice as a place to put magic charms ::)
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Cool that The Harlot gets that identifier! Also as far as "Revelation of John", that's not referring to the Book of Revelation but to all 5 Books that John wrote (John, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, and Revelation). If you notice, there are cards from all of these Books in the set.
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So when does the Magician identifier become official? Next REG?
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So when does the Magician identifier become official? Next REG?
Yesterday. It will be published when the updated REG is released.
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I've heard more than one Pastor refer to it as the Book of Revelations. In the same way that Acts and Acts of the Apostles are one in the same... But either way, that's not what the thread is for. :)
Babylon/The Harlot - magician?!
I know that this Revelation/Revelations got off topic but just wanted to clear it up. Regardless of what a pastor says is irrelevant if that pastor(s) simply doesn't read the title of the book: Revelation. There weren't multiple revelations, it was one big revelation. And for the record, it's actually the Revelation of (or from) Jesus Christ, as denoted in 1:1, not Revelation of John.
To add to the rabbit trail . . .
The actual title in Koine Greek is "John's Apocalypse" or "The Apocalypse of John"
John begins the work by ascribing that the book is actually an apocalypse given by Jesus Christ ("Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ")