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While I'm not completely opposed to the idea, it should be considered that allowing a player to view his discard pile at any time could also lead to more opportunities for cheating. Obviously cheating is always a potential issue but if a player is going back and forth quickly from his hand to his discard pile, it would make it that much easier.
Quote from: The Guardian on May 17, 2016, 10:25:58 AMWhile I'm not completely opposed to the idea, it should be considered that allowing a player to view his discard pile at any time could also lead to more opportunities for cheating. Obviously cheating is always a potential issue but if a player is going back and forth quickly from his hand to his discard pile, it would make it that much easier.If I wanted to cheat in this game it would already be so hilariously easy, and moving stuff between my hand and discard pile would be more obvious than other ways I could already cheat. Other games allow you to look at your discard and yet cheaters tend to do things more like stacking their decks than cheat with discard.
We trust people not to cheat in easier ways in this game, I think we have to be able to trust them here.
well, I would think that it is a much harder way to cheat, and a simple way to make it harder is that people need to put their hand down before they look at the discard. that would make it where a player is less likely to take something, and it would be more obvious if they did.
Quote from: wyatt_marcum on May 17, 2016, 11:24:40 AMwell, I would think that it is a much harder way to cheat, and a simple way to make it harder is that people need to put their hand down before they look at the discard. that would make it where a player is less likely to take something, and it would be more obvious if they did.That's what I was thinking would need to be the guideline for viewing your discard pile if we ended up going that direction. Something like "A player may view his discard pile but must first place his hand face down on the table" (i.e. you cannot view your hand and discard pile together).
and "because cheating" is a really weak argument against making this change.
FTR, I see "because other card games" as a weak argument, but that's just me
Maybe it's not necessary, but a more general rule could also be that you cannot view two "unknown" locations simultaneously. For example, if I use Urim and Thummim to look at my opponent's hand I cannot look back and forth between his hand and mine--I would put my hand down until I was finished looking at his.
If the discard pile shouldn't be searchable, wouldn't it make more sense to have made it go face down or something to begin with?
In practice, two face down piles next to each other are really easy to get mixed up.
Is the rule change being proposed for us to be able to search our decks at any time? Because it would be nice to search though it while I'm on defense too, for similar reasons as on offense. In T2 with multiple copies of cards, it can be easy to lose track of what is where. It would be nice to check to see if I have that one last copy of Belshazzar's Banquet left in my deck before I decide to block with Nebuchadnezzar, versus using a little guy for initiative.
they haven't had a problem with people cheating off being able to view their discard pile, or by being able to view multiple things at once.
I thought that same thing once too - so it must be a great idea, right?
I agree that there doesn't seem to be any major drawbacks from allowing players to search their discard piles while there are definite advantages (which have been listed). Similarly, there doesn't seem to be any drawback of restricting players from searching multiple face-up piles (such as hand and discard pile) simultaneously, but there is the definite advantage of curbing cheating as well as accidents of mixing piles, switching cards, etc. (which new players are much more prone to but can still happen to anybody). It seems wisest to put in the restriction that The Guardian is suggesting where you can only search the discard pile with your hand face-down.
If this rule is to be changed, it should be changed to allow a player to look at cards in *any* discard pile. Given that players are forced to discard face up, there is no reason that the discard pile should be treated as hidden information.
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on May 17, 2016, 08:01:47 PMIf this rule is to be changed, it should be changed to allow a player to look at cards in *any* discard pile. Given that players are forced to discard face up, there is no reason that the discard pile should be treated as hidden information.I agree with this being the case in Type-1. Type-2 is already slow enough without players thumbing through discard piles occasionally.
Quote from: jesse on May 17, 2016, 03:22:41 PMI agree that there doesn't seem to be any major drawbacks from allowing players to search their discard piles while there are definite advantages (which have been listed). Similarly, there doesn't seem to be any drawback of restricting players from searching multiple face-up piles (such as hand and discard pile) simultaneously, but there is the definite advantage of curbing cheating as well as accidents of mixing piles, switching cards, etc. (which new players are much more prone to but can still happen to anybody). It seems wisest to put in the restriction that The Guardian is suggesting where you can only search the discard pile with your hand face-down.There is certainly a disadvantage to the rule Guardian suggested. It arbitrarily restricts players from doing natural actions for no real benefit with a rule that will only ever serve to unfairly rules lawyer people if it is ever enforced.