Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Market => Topic started by: redemptioncousin on July 02, 2010, 01:43:06 PM
-
Okay, so basically what it comes down to is that occasionally I get somewhat frustrated with the way cards are valued. Everyone seems to use Three Lion's for pricing, which does a good job for some of the things, but I think that most would agree that there are some cards that are severely over or under valued. I'd be willing to take time out of my summer to create a new price list based on my trading experience, game play, availability of cards, research of trades and purchases on ebay and the boards, and other miscellaneous categories. It would be subject to peer review and be posted for open discussion on possible changes. I would also have some more experienced traders take a look at it before releasing it.
But basically I'm posting this to see if this is something:
1. People would be interested in.
2. People would use.
3. Others would contribute to the review process (I'm willing to do the initial brute work).
4. People have ideas about the best way to do this (ie... we don't have to necessarily use monetary value
for a price guide that is for trading purposes). For example, we could have commons start at the arbitary
value of 1 and then have every other card be a multiple of that. But I'm leaning toward monetary right
now just because that is what everyone is used to.
Long story short, is it worth my time?
-
I would definately use it. I would say that you should do it based on trade value and make a note that purchase value is approximately 1/2 of trade value.
Your system sounds like a good start. I'd arbitrary put all commons at 1, and then review the list to upgrade some more sought after cards to perhaps a 2, and then proceed through.
You'd probably have to assign each point a value. I'd suggest that 1 point equals 10 cents.
-
Hey,
Have you looked into the collectability page of URCL? It's designed to combine the prices from various sellers and come up with an average price. There's not a lot of people selling cards these days and I don't know how recently Gil has updated that page, but that's the intent.
I am also frustrated at times by the use of Three Lions prices, but it's not really the prices that bother me but how rigidly some people hold to them. I think the enjoyability of trading stems from the fact that different people have different values for different cards and thus the challenge/fun comes in finding people whose values best serve your trading interests. If everyone is using the same values for all of the cards then the whole point of trading is kinda lost, not to mention that based on economic principles people have to be wrong because uniform value of items isn't a realistic free market equilibrium. (Not that I really do much trading myself, so I'm really just talking in theory here.) I think the trading environment of Redemption is kinda out of whack because so many of the major players have all of the cards or have access to all of the cards.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
-
As a seller I greatly disagree with this system. My price differences are what keeps me marketable compared to the other major sellers. If a player does not like the prices they should make up their own. A peer pricing is not a good idea for a free market system...
-
As a seller I greatly disagree with this system. My price differences are what keeps me marketable compared to the other major sellers. If a player does not like the prices they should make up their own. A peer pricing is not a good idea for a free market system...
I'm not a seller, but I agree with Brad's reasoning. If something like this would be done, I can envision a "split" that would evolve among the Redemption players where some use TLG prices and some use "peer pricing"... The net effect would be a lot of time and effort would go into this, and what would happen is everyone would have a harder time to get the cards they need via trading because half (or whatever percentage) of players would want to trade under a different system.
-
I think the current system actually works pretty well, and instead the problem is in the distribution of the regular cards. The last 3 sets have been great for Cactus in that they have been useful in making old product into a viable product again. This has kept Redemption going when other CCGs are disappearing. But they have made it a lot harder to have extras of the newest cards than was the case back when there were regular booster packs. This makes trading more difficult.
As for prices, I think that TLG prices are fair if you have a specific card that you need immediately (advantage seller). The discounted prices that people sell for are fair when they are trying to get rid of their cards (advantage buyer). And having everyone use the same prices for trading is also helpful for giving people a starting point and making sure that new players don't get completely taken advantage of. At the same time people always have the freedom to trade cards at whatever value they want if they can find someone who will do it. For instance, I've seen someone just in the past week offer something like triple value for a card that they REALLY want.
-
Specifically to you Brad... upon thinking about this initially, I knew mainline sellers wouldn't like this idea all that much. That is why I thought about not pricing the cards with a monetary value, but rather given them all arbitrary worth (as in a number).
As far as economics, I realize that a free market cannot have a uniform pricing system. This would be put into place more to let players new and old see how much a specific card is worth compared to others based on what the majority of the Redemption community thinks. As it is now I think some of Ken's prices are based on the stock of the item he has, or how he can obtain it. For example, FooF and RoA cards are all worth the same. From a seller's point of view, that's just fine because they know exactly how to obtain a specific card and are able to sell it at that price. But from a trading perspective, I think this is rediculous. A TGT, uzzah and Amalikite's Slave all being worth the same as Abdon or Mephibosheth...
-
I would like a new pricing system TLG prices are fine for trade but terrible for buying/selling
-
I would like a new pricing system TLG prices are fine for trade but terrible for buying/selling
Yeah Ken should have seperate prices for selling too.
-
FYI, I haven't had the time I hoped I would, but I am in the process of revisiting all prices at Three Lions Gaming. Original, Prophets, and Thesaurus have been overhauled, resulting in lower prices all-around. I don't think the prices will drop as much for most sets, but I agree that something needs to change with Faith of Our Fathers and Rock of Ages especially, so those are the next ones to see a major price readjustment.
I have no issues with a "new pricing guideline", but I'm not sure that it's really necessary or worth the work. As others have mentioned, there are a few people that sell individual cards on the message boards based on their supply and demand. People trade based on their need for the card(s). Three Lions Gaming is a nice 'cap' on selling prices.
I agree that the URCL spreadsheet would be the resource that would likely serve the purpose of what you're looking for, or at least be used as a great resource. If you'd like to put your project on hold until I've had a chance to update Three Lions Gaming, you could decide if the prices make more sense comparatively at that point. :)
-
Sounds good Ken. Just a specific question... is there any reason Philistine Outpost is priced so low compared to all the other TexP??? It just seems like a powerful card...
Oh, and can someone link me to this URCL??? I don't think I've ever seen it before.
-
Oh, and can someone link me to this URCL??? I don't think I've ever seen it before.
URCL (http://www.freewebs.com/redemptionne/UltimateRedemptionCardList6-5-3.xls)
-
Sounds good Ken. Just a specific question... is there any reason Philistine Outpost is priced so low compared to all the other TexP??? It just seems like a powerful card...
I priced the Thesaurus cards based on 9 months of sales, and it wasn't in very high demand. :-\
-
FYI, Faith of Our Fathers cards have now been completely repriced at Three Lions Gaming. The average price per card has dropped from $2.50 to $1.50, and the prices are now based on demand - not just a flat price for all of them. I hope that helps! I am now working on Rock of Ages and will see if I can get it up this weekend, but I'm guessing I won't since I have other things I need to get done, as well...
-
I just finished and uploaded the Rock of Ages as well. :)
-
Thanks Ken. We do appreciate all your extra work. ;D
-
I tried the link to the URCL and got a bunch of card abilities and references with some garbled dingbat type font between.
I remember the pre-priests trading time. It seemed to be a battle between 3 lions and C. Bany's spreadsheet pricing. I can see the problem with a new pricing system being similar. I would like to see a system with the number or star type of pricing for trades so as not to effect the selling of the cards.
Kind of like this
***** Highly valuable/playable cards in high demand
**** Very Good cards that are sought out often with good playablity
*** Good playability, average demand
** Common type cards that you need to fill a collection
* Cards that aren't very valuable but still in the mix to get the trade finalized.
-
Thanks Ken. We do appreciate all your extra work. ;D
YES WE DO!!
-
Two things came to mind as I read this thread:
First: I like what RCuz is considering doing. He is right...there are a lot of cards either over or under priced. Which is okay, in one respect, because I have only bought from Ken once maybe twice and that was complete sets (which I feel his prices are fair.) However, it is when someone sticks to those prices hard during trading is when it gets annoying. Like Tim said, I like to have a mix of value with how much does the card mean to you.
Second: I'm glad to see Ken weigh in on this, adjust some of the prices, and consider adjusting others. Because then maybe people will realize: card prices fluctuate in price & playability, and people should have a little flexibility when working out a trade.
For example: on paper (by Ken's prices).... Primary Objective is worth way more then TeP Gomer (last I looked anyway). However, majority of people will go after the Gomer in a Booster draft (provided AW Primary Objective was ever an option.) Why? Because Gomer is more playable and versatile...where PO is just for one style of play.
One has to have flexibility when working out a trade.
-
i didnt think po was for any style of play. :P
-
I'm hoping that the price changes will be beneficial and make sense when I have a chance to get to the other sets. I have not done a complete re-evaluation since Thesaurus came out, which completely changed the distribution of cards from a few sets. Disciples will do the same. As I'm able to get cards cheaper through those means, I would like to then offer them for less, which is my goal in these revisions. I had a lot of time this weekend to get the tin cards repriced, which I've really been needing to do. It will take quite a bit longer to make the changes for the older sets, but they'll be coming.
As you mentioned, and as others have here, people need to realize that you shouldn't require an "even trade" every time based on listed prices. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and the trading dynamics of the players on the message board are very different than the overall Redemption community. For example, I have a hard time keeping some tournament promos in stock, but many players on here have multiples of them that they don't need. It's this type of situation that causes the prices at Three Lions Gaming to seem over- or undervalued even when they make sense from my end.
As far as booster draft, though, I have to say that I'll take a $0.25 10/10 character over an ultra rare most of the time. ;)
-
As sort of a project of mine, I have considered working on this project proposed by Redemption Cousin. Would anyone be opposed? *Note I will not be assigning monetary or purchase values. I would only be assigning values based on availability and relative trade value using a .00 to 1.00 scale (or perhaps 00.00-10.00). So, DoN might be an 8.77 and Samuel (UL) a 0.12, etc.
-
no objections here. it would be nice.
-
Any objections would probably come from big sellers.
-
OBJECTION!
*just kidding...would love to see your results of the pricing structure...
-
I see no problem with doing this, but I'm not certain it's worth the time. If you'd like to, go for it!
-
I'm not certain it's worth the time.
agreed
-
I see no problem with doing this, but I'm not certain it's worth the time. If you'd like to, go for it!
That's why I am only starting it because I want to find an excuse to use Excel more. No one will listen to my prices because I don't typically sell and I do not own a site/prominent thread, but I hope to find a better alternative of pricing.
-
well, for how much people "attack" the 3LG pricelist when trading (claim it's not a good comparison/value guideline),
yours will receive much heavier "attack"
-
well, for how much people "attack" the 3LG pricelist when trading (claim it's not a good comparison/value guideline),
yours will receive much heavier "attack"
I think you underestimate that. At first it would certainly be attacked, but there are several ways to combat that which I am keeping in my back pocket. No point spoiling my plans until the plane gets off the ground.
The fact is that TLG is what it is: a sales guideline. It's largely based on Ken's stock and past sales history. It's the best guide we have for now, but for trading purposes, there are certainly better options.
-
Easy,guys.
Let's not let this get ugly(not saying it will).
Before anymore posts are added,pray and think about what you are going to post.
just looking out for y'all
Sadness
-
Good call ^
I will let my opinion rest at: "I like the current setup. I think making a new one would be a waste of time, and i probably won't accept it myself."
-
Good call ^
I will let my opinion rest at: "I like the current setup. I think making a new one would be a waste of time, and i probably won't accept it myself."
I don't think you should accept it. You sell cards. You shouldn't look at any price other than the lowest cost of a card currently on the market.
-
Good call ^
I will let my opinion rest at: "I like the current setup. I think making a new one would be a waste of time, and i probably won't accept it myself."
I don't think you should accept it. You sell cards. You shouldn't look at any price other than the lowest cost of a card currently on the market.
yep, and your list is for trades, not sales.
I sell using 3LG as a starting point and then look at what others' prices are and what I can get (as well as my supply).