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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Unofficial Tournaments => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption March Madness => Topic started by: Bryon on March 21, 2011, 05:50:51 PM

Title: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Bryon on March 21, 2011, 05:50:51 PM
Which is the better Redemption hero?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Sean on March 21, 2011, 06:08:21 PM
Wait...I'm the first person to vote for Thad and 6 people have already voted for Susanna?  This is totally ridiculous.  ET >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Susanna, Thad is at least >>>>> Susanna.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 21, 2011, 06:18:25 PM
Has anyone voting here played a legal deck lately? ::)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 21, 2011, 06:29:20 PM
In T1, Susanna>>>>>>>>>Thad. Cost me the game against Gabe at nationals. Her ability to hide or nab lost souls (namely the 2 liner), Son of God, etc, is awesome. She needs less support than Thad, and works with a better theme and brigade.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 21, 2011, 06:32:03 PM
Thad's still a monster in T1.  Just not as much of one.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 21, 2011, 06:39:29 PM
Susanna hands down.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 21, 2011, 06:45:28 PM
Looks like Thaddeus might get good fighted in the irl card game kthx.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 21, 2011, 06:50:44 PM
Please.  The voting's only been open for a day.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 21, 2011, 06:55:15 PM
Please. Look up the definition of might.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 21, 2011, 06:55:55 PM
Once all the people who have said Thad is a beast say that Susanna is better, Thad doesn't stand a chance. Thad's going to might be beaten by a girl.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: The M on March 21, 2011, 07:12:05 PM
I can't decide:

Thad
Pros: If he wins we get a bunch of counters to him next set
Cons: Susanna is actually better

Susanna
Pros: Sheer Awesomeness
Cons: If she wins Thad might not get the counters we are looking for
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 21, 2011, 09:23:01 PM
Both Susanna and Thaddeus are really awesome cards that are significantly better with their support cards out. The difference I see is that Thad can actually win battles (and thus games) and is uncounterable. He's better in both T1 and T2 in my opinion and experience.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on March 21, 2011, 10:30:54 PM
Susana has more versatility than Big Thad does imo. And she has won me sooooo many games by hiding lost souls it's unreal. As soon as I put her down, people play cm outside of battle because I abuse her.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 21, 2011, 11:34:40 PM
People do the same to Thad (who, by the way, is incredibly valuable even if you don't have 9 disciples and Crown of Thorns). I'll bet you he's won even more games than Susanna since Disciples came out, especially in T2.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 21, 2011, 11:35:14 PM
If Thad loses, then everyone needs to shut up about him.

=)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 21, 2011, 11:37:09 PM
He's still WAY op in T2.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 21, 2011, 11:41:37 PM
If Thad loses, then everyone needs to shut up about him.

=)
How about everyone who didn't vote for him. :P I'm gonna think he's the most OP card ever (besides NJ) even if he loses the vote.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Bryon on March 22, 2011, 12:05:07 AM
I can't decide:

Thad
Pros: If he wins we get a bunch of counters to him next set
Cons: Susanna is actually better

Susanna
Pros: Sheer Awesomeness
Cons: If she wins Thad might not get the counters we are looking for
As I said in the last Thad poll, counters to Thad are already on their way.  Susanna is gonna stay awesome.  :)

Thankfully, she won't get MORE awesome, since there isn't a single female N.T. hero in the whole 2011 set.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 22, 2011, 12:32:37 AM
If Thad loses, then everyone needs to shut up about him.

=)
How about everyone who didn't vote for him. :P I'm gonna think he's the most OP card ever (besides NJ) even if he loses the vote.
"Best" is totally subjective, it doesn't mean strongest or most powerful.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Prof Underwood on March 22, 2011, 07:53:20 AM
Susanna is only going to be in a TGT deck, Thad is only going to be in a Disciples deck.
Both are strong in both T1 and T2, but Disciples are definitely stronger in T2.  Point - Thad

Susanna helps your offense by getting great cards from the top of your deck, but also helps your defense by putting LSs on the bottom of your deck.  Thad only helps your offense.  Point - Susanna

Susanna is helpful throughout the game.  Thad is close to unstoppable in the late game, but useless while waiting to get enough other disciples in play.  Point - Susanna

Winner - Susanna
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 22, 2011, 09:31:51 AM
Susanna is helpful throughout the game.  Thad is close to unstoppable in the late game, but useless while waiting to get enough other disciples in play.
Really? Susanna needs other NT Females in order to be better, just like Thad needs other Disciples to be better. Neither of them are useless in the early game. I mean, even just being able to protect from all characters 3/3 or less can win souls, or at least cause your opponent to have to use a character that he wouldn't otherwise.

Another thing about Susanna: Everyone keeps mentioning that she is so good at placing Lost Souls beneath deck. But I've never seen that to be a real plus, unless you have an impractical number of NT females, get really lucky, and/or only have a few cards left in your deck. She is forced to put all the cards she looks at beneath deck, which means next time you use her ability, the lost souls you placed under last turn are that much closer to the top, and in the end, the ability hardly does anything to actually bury souls. She is much better used for her "search" ability IMO.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Prof Underwood on March 22, 2011, 10:08:48 AM
Really? Susanna needs other NT Females in order to be better, just like Thad needs other Disciples to be better. Neither of them are useless in the early game. I mean, even just being able to protect from all characters 3/3 or less can win souls, or at least cause your opponent to have to use a character that he wouldn't otherwise.
Susanna has great numbers for initiative in the early game which is useful even if she can't search much.  And you don't mind attacking with her early and risking her getting beat.  No one wants to use Thad until the end of the game when he's invincible, so you just hold on to him until then to make sure that he doesn't get wasted early.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 22, 2011, 10:10:23 AM
Thad's still totally useful early-mid game, simply by virtue of being a Disciple, with access to MLaMG, Reach, etc.

Also, I don't play Disciples to strictly abuse Thad, I really enjoy their versatility, so my opinion's probably different than the majority.  (surprise....)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on March 22, 2011, 10:17:29 AM
Susanna is helpful throughout the game.  Thad is close to unstoppable in the late game, but useless while waiting to get enough other disciples in play.
Really? Susanna needs other NT Females in order to be better, just like Thad needs other Disciples to be better. Neither of them are useless in the early game. I mean, even just being able to protect from all characters 3/3 or less can win souls, or at least cause your opponent to have to use a character that he wouldn't otherwise.

Another thing about Susanna: Everyone keeps mentioning that she is so good at placing Lost Souls beneath deck. But I've never seen that to be a real plus, unless you have an impractical number of NT females, get really lucky, and/or only have a few cards left in your deck. She is forced to put all the cards she looks at beneath deck, which means next time you use her ability, the lost souls you placed under last turn are that much closer to the top, and in the end, the ability hardly does anything to actually bury souls. She is much better used for her "search" ability IMO.

Are you kidding? Susanna is the best defense in my TGT deck. If I can bury a soul and get one more free turn to get a soul off you then I'm way ahead. Do it more than once and you're really looking good.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Professoralstad on March 22, 2011, 11:06:04 AM
Since it's pretty clear that Thad is going to lose, I will assure all of you Thad-fanatics that we're going to help him out in the next set. Here's one of the cards we're making this year:

Calling of the Twelve

Good Dominant

Negate Sites and Artifacts. Search your deck and discard pile for all Disciples and place them in your territory. Return all Heroes from set-aside areas to play. Discard all curses, Evil Enhancements, and N.T. Evil Fortresses in play.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 22, 2011, 11:11:14 AM
One of two things:
You need to add a "convert Judas" clause
or you need to reprint Judas as a hero.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: TechnoEthicist on March 22, 2011, 11:14:32 AM
Since it's pretty clear that Thad is going to lose, I will assure all of you Thad-fanatics that we're going to help him out in the next set. Here's one of the cards we're making this year:

Calling of the Twelve

Good Dominant

Negate Sites and Artifacts. Search your deck and discard pile for all Disciples and place them in your territory. Return all Heroes from set-aside areas to play. Discard all curses, Evil Enhancements, and N.T. Evil Fortresses in play.

Ok what's the catch...:P also how would that work with type 2 since I obviously can't have 3 Thad's in territory :P. Although that is an amusing concept.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Gabe on March 22, 2011, 11:21:50 AM
One of two things:
You need to add a "convert Judas" clause
or you need to reprint Judas as a hero.

Pay attention son. :)

Quote from: Gabe during nominations
Purple
...
Judas Iscariot (2011 version)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: CJSports on March 22, 2011, 03:24:08 PM
Since it's pretty clear that Thad is going to lose, I will assure all of you Thad-fanatics that we're going to help him out in the next set. Here's one of the cards we're making this year:

Calling of the Twelve

Good Dominant

Negate Sites and Artifacts. Search your deck and discard pile for all Disciples and place them in your territory. Return all Heroes from set-aside areas to play. Discard all curses, Evil Enhancements, and N.T. Evil Fortresses in play.

This means Thaddeus is going to be good early game. :o.. :o......... :o............................. :o......................................................NO,BAD THAD.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 22, 2011, 03:42:42 PM
Am I the only one that thought that was really funny?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Crashfach2002 on March 22, 2011, 03:50:06 PM
My feeling is that whoever wins this, wins the whole thing!
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 22, 2011, 03:58:52 PM
Mr. Mo might disagree.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Sadness on March 22, 2011, 04:26:46 PM
Based off some of the posts, does this mean we might be getting some OT females? Thaddeus can be played in a mixed deck aka (OT & NT). Susanna-white,plus a red brigade for some interesting battles :)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: hi123 on March 22, 2011, 05:17:57 PM
If Thad loses, then everyone needs to shut up about him.

=)
How about everyone who didn't vote for him. :P I'm gonna think he's the most OP card ever (besides NJ) even if he loses the vote.
Susanna will win. Honestly, she is the better hero. Ya, Thaddeus is protected from harm(sometimes) . But still, a 1/x white hero with a cant be negated ability is very powerful. Thaddeus is 8/8 and bad for initiative.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 22, 2011, 05:29:42 PM
Thaddeus doesn't need initiative. Thaddeus will blast through almost any defense without enhancements, and an AoCP is always ready if need be.

White doesn't need inish 90% of the time. Words, Blessings, and He is Risen are the most used White Enhancements, as well as First Fruits and Consider the Lilies, but those are pre-battle. Those are all interrupts. Inish is irrelevant in this matchup.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: hi123 on March 22, 2011, 05:33:06 PM
Thaddeus doesn't need initiative. Thaddeus will blast through almost any defense without enhancements, and an AoCP is always ready if need be.

White doesn't need inish 90% of the time. Words, Blessings, and He is Risen are the most used White Enhancements, as well as First Fruits and Consider the Lilies, but those are pre-battle. Those are all interrupts. Inish is irrelevant in this matchup.
Thaddeus needs a lot of disciples in play to make him work. But, for white enhancements, you do need some initiative for the enhancements that do not interrupt.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 22, 2011, 05:39:54 PM
Susanna will win. Honestly, she is the better hero. Ya, Thaddeus is protected from harm(sometimes) . But still, a 1/x white hero with a cant be negated ability is very powerful. Thaddeus is 8/8 and bad for initiative.
As RW said, he doesn't need initiative. He protects everything from everything. He doesn't even need enhancements most of the time.

You are entitled to your opinion on which is the better hero, but I know what I think. In my experience, Thaddeus has won more games than Susanna.

Besides, Thad's in a better brigade (IMO), so even if he somehow becomes incapacitated (which is quite difficult to do - something that can't be said for Susie), the deck he's in is more likely to win than a Susanna deck without Susanna.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 22, 2011, 05:55:26 PM
Thaddeus doesn't need initiative. Thaddeus will blast through almost any defense without enhancements, and an AoCP is always ready if need be.

White doesn't need inish 90% of the time. Words, Blessings, and He is Risen are the most used White Enhancements, as well as First Fruits and Consider the Lilies, but those are pre-battle. Those are all interrupts. Inish is irrelevant in this matchup.
Thaddeus needs a lot of disciples in play to make him work. But, for white enhancements, you do need some initiative for the enhancements that do not interrupt.
Susanna needs a lot of N.T. Females in play to make her work. But, for purple enhancements, you do not need some initiative for the enhancements that do interrupt.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 22, 2011, 11:16:54 PM
One of two things:
You need to add a "convert Judas" clause
or you need to reprint Judas as a hero.

Pay attention son. :)

Quote from: Gabe during nominations
Purple
...
Judas Iscariot (2011 version)

That isn't legitimate is it?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: soul seeker on March 23, 2011, 10:09:12 AM
One of two things:
You need to add a "convert Judas" clause
or you need to reprint Judas as a hero.

Pay attention son. :)

Quote from: Gabe during nominations
Purple
...
Judas Iscariot (2011 version)
That isn't legitimate is it?

It should be.  Judas was an active member of Jesus' ministry for almost 3 years.

EDIT:  Separated my comment from the quote box.  FWIW, I've thought Judas has needed a hero card for awhile now.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Red on March 23, 2011, 10:18:28 AM
I do not want a good Judas. Ever. His betrayal may have been used by God but he was still an evil man. Don't paint a picture of light around him.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 23, 2011, 10:25:10 AM
Don't judge a man because of one evil thing he did.

I am against a Judas hero.

We've had this discussion before. Lets not have it again.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: soul seeker on March 23, 2011, 10:38:25 AM
I do not want a good Judas. Ever. His betrayal may have been used by God but he was still an evil man. Don't paint a picture of light around him.
It is not a "picture of light," it is facts from the Bible and I can prove it.  Like it or not, he did minister with the rest of the disciples.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 23, 2011, 11:59:56 AM
Kenneth Copeland "ministers" too.

*Trollface*
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Red on March 23, 2011, 12:30:43 PM
I do not want a good Judas. Ever. His betrayal may have been used by God but he was still an evil man. Don't paint a picture of light around him.
It is not a "picture of light," it is facts from the Bible and I can prove it.  Like it or not, he did minister with the rest of the disciples.
I am aware of that. He still betrayed Christ that outweighs the amount of good he did imo. If Judas was printed as a hero I'd raise a large amount of cain he
re on the boards till the elders regetted the idea.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: soul seeker on March 23, 2011, 12:36:26 PM
I do not want a good Judas. Ever. His betrayal may have been used by God but he was still an evil man. Don't paint a picture of light around him.
It is not a "picture of light," it is facts from the Bible and I can prove it.  Like it or not, he did minister with the rest of the disciples.
I am aware of that. He still betrayed Christ that outweighs the amount of good he did imo. If Judas was printed as a hero I'd raise a large amount of cain he
re on the boards till the elders regetted the idea.
So what you are saying is that you will throw a temper tantrum of epic proportions to the status of the first murderer in the Bible because your theological feathers got a bit ruffled.  Ironically, you want to cause misery for your fellow Christians over a Christian card game because of your Christian beliefs. 

Funny thing is the person who Judas betrayed loves him and treated him with love more than you are willing to do.  You do realize that Judas could have been forgiven had he asked right?  Afterall, Peter betrayed Christ and was aloud to repent and get to be a hero in Redemption too!   ::)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Red on March 23, 2011, 12:42:02 PM
Think about it for a second.  This man betrayed the Son Of God. I wouldn't throw a major tantrum but I may quit if he was published.(PM if you wanna contenue the debate. I don't wanna derail this further)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 23, 2011, 01:23:33 PM
You do realize that Judas could have been forgiven had he asked right?
I think this is the point of the matter. Nowhere does it say Judas repented. As far as we know, he should not be a hero.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 23, 2011, 01:26:20 PM
Don't paint a picture of light around him.
The shiny gold border on the Ultra-Rare doesn't count?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: soul seeker on March 23, 2011, 02:36:11 PM
You do realize that Judas could have been forgiven had he asked right?
I think this is the point of the matter. Nowhere does it say Judas repented. As far as we know, he should not be a hero.
Last comment on the tangent:
    Judas was one of the twelve, given the power and message to deliver as evident in Mt 10:1-4.  He was a "hero" (in Redemption terms) before his mistake.

1 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions

Yes, Judas didn't repent, but neither did Solomon or Saul or others who also have good cards that made mistakes later in life.  In fact, all the disciples (but John as far as I can tell) betrayed him in their abandonment.  That is why Judas has an evil card and the others doesn't.  I don't think it means that he never deserves a hero card (because he did do good things early in the ministry) or that it's worth quitting the game over.

Remember this, all the disciples were grappling with the problem of Jesus not living up to their expectations.  It appears that, on some level, they recognized the possibility of betrayal otherwise they wouldn't have taken turns to see if they were the betrayer in Matthew 26:20-22.

20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21 And while they were eating, he said, “Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me.”
22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, “Surely you don’t mean me, Lord?”

Judas ministered, in the SAME WAY, as all the other disciples early in the ministry.  He let unrepentant sin grow in his life (greed), found Jesus teachings hard (not the military messiah the Jews wanted), and turned away ("converted" in Redemption terms).  It makes perfect sense to me to have a Judas' purple hero.

    And one more thing...
We all crucified Jesus.  It was our sin that hung him there (Isaiah 53).  We all betray Jesus when we are ashamed to speak up for what is right, to witness about the good news, or when we actively choose to participate in secret habitual sin in our life.  Instead of throwing rocks at Judas and vilifying him for being human, how about we examine our own lives and realize how much like Judas we are. 

But what do I know, I'm only a noob.  My :2cents: has now been deposited.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 23, 2011, 02:39:40 PM
I agree completely Jonathon.  Sometime I should come down and hear one of your sermons.

So, Biblically, it's possible for Judas to have a hero.  However, do we really want *another* disciple for Thad?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Carl deuty on March 23, 2011, 02:47:58 PM
Man, doesn't Jesus preach forgivness? Judas played a part in the story of Christ. God knew what was going to happen. I am pretty sure biblical writers did not prboe the mind of Judas to see whether he repented for what he did or not.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: CJSports on March 23, 2011, 02:57:21 PM
I do not want a good Judas. Ever. His betrayal may have been used by God but he was still an evil man. Don't paint a picture of light around him.
It is not a "picture of light," it is facts from the Bible and I can prove it.  Like it or not, he did minister with the rest of the disciples.
I am aware of that. He still betrayed Christ that outweighs the amount of good he did imo. If Judas was printed as a hero I'd raise a large amount of cain he
re on the boards till the elders regetted the idea.

I guess that you're perfect then. In the bible Jesus said that not one sin is worse than the another. Every sin is against God. We don't deserve anything he gave us, none of us should be considered heros without gods forgiveness. Judas was forgiven because he was a believer. If you recall he did try and take it all back after he saw what happened. His one sing is equal to you or anyone else lieing or using the lords name in vain. SO to say he should not be a hero is saying that every hero and you are perfect.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Professoralstad on March 23, 2011, 02:58:06 PM
If there were ever a Hero Judas, he'd probably be something like this*:

Judas Iscariot
6/4 Purple Hero////12/15 Crimson Evil Character
-Disciple, Enters play as a Hero-

Hero Side: If Son of God is discarded without rescuing a Lost Soul while Judas is in play, convert him to the Evil Character Judas regardless of protection. Cannot be negated.

Evil Character Side: Immune to Disciples and protected from good dominants. While in play, discard Judas if Thirty Pieces of Silver discards a Hero, regardless of protection. Cannot be negated.


But, what do I know. INE.

Owait... ::)


*This post has not been reviewed for accuracy, and several fabrications may or may not exist within the previous sentences.

Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Red on March 23, 2011, 02:59:49 PM
I'm not saying that. I sin just as bad as others. Judas being a hero would paint a bad picture for the game. I wouldn't hate PofA's idea.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: CJSports on March 23, 2011, 03:03:06 PM
God forgave him, he tried to repent, he was a disciple. He's a hero. You're holding one sin against that is equal to one of yours. I could argue against you being made a custom hero because of a sin you made but no because the Lord almighty forgives. If that's not good enough for you then I don't know what is.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Professoralstad on March 23, 2011, 03:14:04 PM
While I personally wouldn't object to Judas being printed as a Hero, Red does have a valid point. Whether we like it or not, it probably wouldn't go over well from a marketing standpoint. Consider the average Christian family, who have always taught their kids that Judas was evil because he betrayed Christ. They've learned the story in Sunday School, and overall see him as nothing but a Disciple who made secret "withdrawals" from the Disciples' money, and later betrayed the source of humanity's salvation. Now this parent hears about Redemption, but sees that in the game, Judas is a Hero, i.e., presented in a positive light. The parent may be uncomfortable with a game that allows people like Judas to rescue the Lost. Sure, it may lead to thought-provoking discussions about Judas' inherent goodness or evil, and the definitions of good and evil in general, but that may not be the conversation that a parent wants to have with his 11-year old.

Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 23, 2011, 03:20:52 PM
God forgave him, he tried to repent, he was a disciple. He's a hero. You're holding one sin against that is equal to one of yours. I could argue against you being made a custom hero because of a sin you made but no because the Lord almighty forgives. If that's not good enough for you then I don't know what is.

Wait, how is it Biblical that he tried to repent, or that he was forgiven? He hung himself. Debates about that being a mortal sin aside, that doesn't suggest forgiveness. He regretted it, sure, but that's all. I don't believe there's any Biblical evidence to prove that Judas was ever a "hero". He was a thief, and we're not told how much into Jesus' ministry that that was. I may just be not very well-read, but yeah.

I'm inclined to agree with Red. I think that making Judas a Hero is toeing some very, very critical lines. I would probably drop Redemption if he was printed as a Hero, honestly.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Sadness on March 23, 2011, 03:57:46 PM
Quote
Sure, it may lead to thought-provoking discussions about Judas' inherent goodness or evil, and the definitions of good and evil in general, but that may not be the conversation that a parent wants to have with his 11-year old.


What about King Solomon? He is a good hero-he started out loyal to God,but allowed his foreign wives to influence him. He started worshiping foreign gods,ignoring God,inflicting heavy taxes on the common people,building temples to false gods. God then raised up individuals against King Solomon. Maybe we will get a evil King Solomon. That would be great. Someone to counter King David and perhaps some priests.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Professoralstad on March 23, 2011, 04:06:54 PM
Quote
Sure, it may lead to thought-provoking discussions about Judas' inherent goodness or evil, and the definitions of good and evil in general, but that may not be the conversation that a parent wants to have with his 11-year old.


What about King Solomon? He is a good hero-he started out loyal to God,but allowed his foreign wives to influence him. He started worshiping foreign gods,ignoring God,inflicting heavy taxes on the common people,building temples to false gods. God then raised up individuals against King Solomon. Maybe we will get a evil King Solomon. That would be great. Someone to counter King David and perhaps some priests.

While all that is true, the more common view of Solomon is the wisest man in the world, the son of Israel's most godly King, who built God's temple. I doubt that there will ever be a King Solomon EC, I wouldn't be surprised if there was ever a card similar to Adonijah for Joab, that could convert him to an Evil Character.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 23, 2011, 04:10:38 PM
EC Solomon would be useless against King David, unless you've got Golgatha.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Noah on March 23, 2011, 04:16:12 PM
EC Solomon would be useless against King David, unless you've got Golgatha.

And even then Golgotha only protects N.T. characters.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Professoralstad on March 23, 2011, 04:17:01 PM
EC Solomon would be useless against King David, unless you've got Golgatha.

Correction: EC Solomon would be useless against King David, even if you have Golgotha. I know Solomon was mentioned once in the N.T. (Consider the Lilies) but I don't think that's the verse that would be chosen for him.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 23, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
Would anyone be opposed to me making a topic in the proper forum to address the concept of a "Hero" Judas? It's an interesting topic I don't mind talking about.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Professoralstad on March 23, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
You'd have to have a Global Mod do that, since I'm pretty sure Bryon mods this section. I think the topic has already been discussed at length previously, however, so maybe you could do a search and bring up any new points if you find the thread.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 23, 2011, 04:43:04 PM
EC Solomon would be useless against King David, unless you've got Golgatha.

Correction: EC Solomon would be useless against King David, even if you have Golgotha. I know Solomon was mentioned once in the N.T. (Consider the Lilies) but I don't think that's the verse that would be chosen for him.
Gah, fail.  I keep forgetting Golgatha is NT.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 23, 2011, 05:51:21 PM
King Solomon was a good guy who repented at the end of his life and wrote the book of Ecclesiastes to tell the world of his discovery. Don't bring him into this debate.

And again I say, we've had this debate before. here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=24698.0)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Sadness on March 23, 2011, 08:18:06 PM
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

on another note: who is going to win?  the guy? or the girl?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 23, 2011, 11:08:18 PM
who is going to win?  the guy? or the girl?
This is absolutely NOT a matter of boys vs. girls and I hope no one voted that way.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 23, 2011, 11:29:24 PM
I felt bound to vote for Susanna thanks to AA.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on March 24, 2011, 09:58:17 AM
This is probably the closest match so far and the most talked about since this tourney started....I hope my favorite wins. I call whoever wins this match wins the whole tourney
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 24, 2011, 10:44:04 AM
I felt bound to vote for Susanna thanks to AA.
AA?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 24, 2011, 12:05:04 PM
This is probably the closest match so far and the most talked about since this tourney started....I hope my favorite wins. I call whoever wins this match wins the whole tourney

I think Captain has a shot at being both of them, but definitely Susanna.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Josh on March 24, 2011, 12:12:25 PM
who is going to win?  the guy? or the girl?
This is absolutely NOT a matter of boys vs. girls and I hope no one voted that way.
There were no implications that anyone voted that way.  Sometimes a statement of fact is just a statement of fact...
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: soul seeker on March 24, 2011, 12:32:26 PM
This is probably the closest match so far and the most talked about since this tourney started....I hope my favorite wins. I call whoever wins this match wins the whole tourney

I think Captain has a shot at being both of them, but definitely Susanna.

Don't underestimate Jacob....he butters Captain's bread AND has the option to play first! 
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 24, 2011, 12:44:18 PM
who is going to win?  the guy? or the girl?
This is absolutely NOT a matter of boys vs. girls and I hope no one voted that way.
There were no implications that anyone voted that way.  Sometimes a statement of fact is just a statement of fact...

I voted for Thad because girls are icky and have cooties!
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 24, 2011, 01:35:43 PM
This could very well decide the winner. And it's tied. Epic.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 24, 2011, 01:36:46 PM
I felt bound to vote for Susanna thanks to AA.
AA?
Affirmative Action
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Korunks on March 24, 2011, 01:38:21 PM
Hrmm a tie, now what :)
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 24, 2011, 01:43:44 PM
Now SQF changes their votes from Thaddeus to Susana 5 minutes before voting closes.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Korunks on March 24, 2011, 01:47:45 PM
When does voting close?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 24, 2011, 01:55:26 PM
"(Voting closes: Today at 05:50:51 PM)"
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 24, 2011, 02:09:08 PM
This is probably the closest match so far and the most talked about since this tourney started....I hope my favorite wins. I call whoever wins this match wins the whole tourney

I think Captain has a shot at being both of them, but definitely Susanna.

Don't underestimate Jacob....he butters Captain's bread AND has the option to play first!  
Ah, but man does not live on bread alone.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: CJSports on March 24, 2011, 02:46:26 PM
This is getting extremely close, I'm sweating right now.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: The M on March 24, 2011, 04:40:57 PM
We are tied!!!! AAAAAAAAGH!
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Sadness on March 24, 2011, 05:00:07 PM
Chill.   We still have a hour and some change.

Quote
I voted for Thad because girls are icky and have cooties!
  Well,this person must be a young fellow,wait till you get older and you
will see how sweet and awesome girls are ;)


May the best one win!   Susanna that is :angel:
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Master KChief on March 24, 2011, 05:01:17 PM
i have not voted yet.

on a completely different note, i like mt dew and m&m's. thank you.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 24, 2011, 05:01:58 PM
Actually, the clock is eastern time, so we only have 50 minutes left. :D

Unfortunately, I'm guessing Bryon will vote for Thad...
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Sadness on March 24, 2011, 05:33:17 PM
Clock is ticking.


So who will break the tie.

Oh,the suspense
Oh,the agony

Oh, brother
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on March 24, 2011, 05:56:16 PM
NOOO. I FEEL ASLEEP AND FORGOT TO CHANGE MY VOTE :c.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 24, 2011, 06:22:07 PM
Maybe PM Bryon?
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: Bryon on March 25, 2011, 01:17:20 AM
4 rounds of voting.  
60 matchups.
And we finally have our first tie.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing Bryon will vote for Thad...
Kurt voted for Thad.  Kurt loves disciples.  Kurt played Disciples at nats in California.  Yeah, when disciples were... um... yeah.  Kurt won the first 4 or 5 rounds of Type 1 2-player and made it all the way to the top table with the Red Phillip in his deck!  Imagine Gabe's surprise at seeing a red 9/7 Phillip!  In honor of that achievement, the father in me wants to vote for Thad for his sake.

But I've always loved Susanna.  I've loved her since I found her art on goodsalt, and when her stats and special ability were nothing but typed letters on our "2009 set" list.  Since before I knew what "Thesaurus ex Preteritus" meant.  Susanna does a great job supporting your heroes, just as she supported Jesus during His ministry.  And she does it without spilling your lost souls out all over the table.  Now that Herod's Temple is around, it is pretty useful to have a hero who gets you cards without shrinking your deck too quickly.  She gets you only what you most need.  She has great initiative.  She has great art.  She has a great ability.  She is part of a great theme.

I vote for Susanna.
Title: Re: The Elite Eight - Thaddeus or Susanna
Post by: SomeKittens on March 25, 2011, 01:22:37 AM
I vote for Susanna.
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