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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Unofficial Tournaments => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption March Madness => Topic started by: Professoralstad on April 21, 2011, 05:55:09 PM
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Vote now!
WINNER: Goliath (Promo)
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Why? :'( I refuse to vote, but I do think that the winner of this wins it all.
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Goliath. This isn't even close.
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uzzah. 99% guaranteed block + access to hp wins it in my book.
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I almost voted for Goliath, just because I'm mad that Gomer lost, but I went with Uzzah. Seriously, autoblock that doesn't give a chance to interrupt is win. Goliath is good, but I'm not sure he'll cut it in the end.
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I almost voted for Goliath, just because I'm mad that Gomer lost, but I went with Uzzah. Seriously, autoblock that doesn't give a chance to interrupt is win. Goliath is good, but I'm not sure he'll cut it in the end.
But it can only block once. Goliath is also an auto block if the opponent only has one character/banding chain. Goliath is huge and cna block Thad for a long time. Goliath can Taunt Thad and other under the pile. Goliath can wear his armor and be epic Thad killing master.
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I almost voted for Goliath, just because I'm mad that Gomer lost, but I went with Uzzah. Seriously, autoblock that doesn't give a chance to interrupt is win. Goliath is good, but I'm not sure he'll cut it in the end.
But it can only block once. Goliath is also an auto block if the opponent only has one character/banding chain. Goliath is huge and cna block Thad for a long time. Goliath can Taunt Thad and other under the pile. Goliath can wear his armor and be epic Thad killing master.
And Uzzah can be used in a deck.
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Not only is Goliath almost never an autoblock, but he also allows your opponent to use two different heroes' abilities. And there are still very few counters to Uzzah.
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Uzzah wastes an artifact, so I hope you have one to lose. Goliath is an early game autoblock if for no other reason than someone does not expect a Goliath from hand and has to rescue with the wrong hero. You guys are in for a surprise.
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there are many expendable artifacts that can become food for uzzah. not only that, but there really should be no hesitation at all between deciding if you want to save an art or win the game by staying one turn ahead of your opponent by chump blocking. goliath can be an autoblock early game, but uzzah is autoblock at every stage of the game. many games amongst top tier players are decided by only one turn.
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I'll stick with Goliath for now, but I'm considering Uzzah. I don't think Goliath is going to be what we think he will.
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What is Uzzah doing against FBTN? Pretty sure I have a FBTN in virtually every deck. Goliath can be Uzzah, but he can be so much more than that as well. Uzzah is too one dimensional. That dimeonsion is great, but not that great compared to Goliath's toolkit. You can plan for an Uzzah. You can't really plan for Goliath effectively.
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Yes I can ;) I call it Holy Grail.
That being said I agree that he's better.
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Goliath is going to open up a whole new psychology factor to Redemption...
Imagine I use Urim and Thummim to view your hand. I see that you're hiding Goliath. I attack with Hero A. At this point you aren't sure if I'm attacking with what is actually my 2nd best option because I'm hoping you block with the G-Man and allow me to switch for my 1st best option or if I'm already attacking with my 1st best option because I'm guessing you won't block with Goliath since I know that you know that I know... ;D
All that being said, I voted for Uzzah simply for the fact that Goliath is yet unproven.
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I almost voted for Goliath, just because I'm mad that Gomer lost, but I went with Uzzah. Seriously, autoblock that doesn't give a chance to interrupt is win. Goliath is good, but I'm not sure he'll cut it in the end.
But it can only block once.
Uzzah can block more than once. He's also great for initiative, with a Haman's Plot to drop.
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I was once in a game where 2 Uzzahs (1 from each player) made a combined 3 blocks, none of which were by using his special ability. :P
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If Uzzah isn't using his SA, he is a largely a worthless character. At that point, you are essentially viotoing Gib Trick and Haman's Plot on a 3/2 are better than Goliath.
I have played one game with Goliath. He blocked my TGT band. I didn't have other heroes because he came from hand. I was sold.
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If Uzzah isn't using his SA, he is a largely a worthless character. At that point, you are essentially viotoing Gib Trick and Haman's Plot on a 3/2 are better than Goliath.
I have played one game with Goliath. He blocked my TGT band. I didn't have other heroes because he came from hand. I was sold.
You're essentially saying that Uzzah's ability, along with HP and in some scenarios Gibeonite Treachery isn't amazing? That's two, possibly three blocks. Somebody asked what Uzzah is doing against FBTN? It's Haman's Plot.
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Goliath has 2 "themes" - Philistine and Giant. Goliath is warrior-class. Goliath has big numbers against Ira, Captain, Moses, etc. His numbers become even better when using his own weapons/armor. Goliath can taunt you to place your favorite hero under your deck (even better if you had a weapon or other enhancement on them).
Uzzah has zero theme, is not warrior-class, has small numbers that will lose in a FBTN battle (unless he also has Haman's Plot, which you have to destroy), he has no "name on name" options, and he cannot taunt. Against the right heroes I concede that Uzzah can auto-win up to two times, but you have to have two artifacts that you don't mind losing. I also like him for playing Image of Jealousy TC.
My vote was for Goliath.
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If Uzzah isn't using his SA, he is a largely a worthless character. At that point, you are essentially viotoing Gib Trick and Haman's Plot on a 3/2 are better than Goliath.
I have played one game with Goliath. He blocked my TGT band. I didn't have other heroes because he came from hand. I was sold.
You're essentially saying that Uzzah's ability, along with HP and in some scenarios Gibeonite Treachery isn't amazing? That's two, possibly three blocks. Somebody asked what Uzzah is doing against FBTN? It's Haman's Plot.
If that's your reason, you are essentially just voting brown brigade over black brigade. At least do it with your eyes open.
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I voted for Uzzah with the main reason in mind that Guardian mentioned. Goliath is unproven.
Uzzah has proven auto-blocks.
Uzzah has proven initiative (for the brown enhancements mentioned already).
It was a tough call, but what if Goliath is over-hyped like Split Altar?
Finally, I don't think "best EC" should be won on hype alone. It would be nice to see a proven track record.
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I voted Goliath with hopes that one day there will be an evil version of pre-block. Then again I am also still hoping to find a way to convert a demon.
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Goliath is AMAZING in the early game. When your opponent only has 1 hero (or only one hero that can win a battle). Uzzah stinks in the early game, when you have zero artifacts to burn (or zero artifacts you can afford to give up base on the cards you see your opponent is using).
Goliath is not as good at the end of the game. By then, your opponent has so many options for heroes, that you are just trading death by hero A for death by hero B. At the end of the game, Uzzah is amazing. You have artifacts you don't need, so Uzzah is pretty much a free block.
Kurt has both of these guys in one of his decks. If he draws Uzzah early and Goliath late, I can win. If he gets Goliath early and Uzzah late, then he gets too much of a head start and often I can't catch up.
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Goliath might be unproven, but he is still a huge EC with enhancements. Everyone is talking about HP on Uzzah, what about Goliath w/ his armor, and Bringing Fear to back up on him, as well as other negates? Don't count enhancement's, we're voting on EC's. Uzzah has great initiative and a great SA, but he is a solo block. Goliath is good for a while. And although he might not be as good late game, he still is making you use a different hero than what you chose originally. Goliath got my vote, and it was tied at 20 when I voted.
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All that CBP stuff still hurts to FBTN enhancements.
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I personally have no problem with Goliath as he really doesnt harm any of my single brigade or dual brigade strats vs Uzzah he either has inish vs me or gets a auto block. Imo the whole point of a auto block is more then enough reason to vote for him vs the "anti" banding GMan.
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This entire thing will be illegitimized if a character that's not even released yet wins. I don't think he'd be able to stand up to Manasseh, though, but still, the final matchup really should be Uzzah v. Manasseh.
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Goliath has 2 "themes" - Philistine and Giant. Goliath is warrior-class. Goliath has big numbers against Ira, Captain, Moses, etc. His numbers become even better when using his own weapons/armor. Goliath can taunt you to place your favorite hero under your deck (even better if you had a weapon or other enhancement on them).
Uzzah has zero theme, is not warrior-class, has small numbers that will lose in a FBTN battle (unless he also has Haman's Plot, which you have to destroy), he has no "name on name" options, and he cannot taunt. Against the right heroes I concede that Uzzah can auto-win up to two times, but you have to have two artifacts that you don't mind losing. I also like him for playing Image of Jealousy TC.
My vote was for Goliath.
You do have good points. But, Goliath has horrible initiative. Also, there is not many people using FBTN these days. Half of the redemtion players are using either priests or disciples now. So, Goliath can just get Zeal for the Lord'ed/Angel of the Lord'ed. Ya, hes WC but there arnt alot of enhancements to be put on him besides phillistine chariots and horses.
I do agree that because he is a philli he can be recurred w/Philli outpost.
Uzzah: Great for initiative. Also, he is a garunteed block. ( plus he is an EC actualy in print...) He can also play Hamans Plot( which dosent have to be desroyed now with Hamans Gallows). And he also has initiative to play that unless he is blocking one of those heros that have 1 toughness. ( which there arnt many of those.) Also, your opponent dosent have the initiative to play AOTL, or Zeal againt Uzzah. His ability comes first. Now, If you dont use Uzzahs SA, then he can get AOTL. But, he can be used twice, with a gaunteed block if you play torment on him. - Just a reminder, Uzzah has been in almost every tournament deck, unless it has been defensless. How many people will be using Goliath in every tournament deck when he comes out?
Uzzah wins.
***Plus, like Minister Polarius said, Goliath isnt even out yet. Why should he even be in the brakets?
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Probaby not every tournament deck will put goliath in but every splash defense will use him for sure.
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Goliath will be out before this thing is over.
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Goliath for sure !!!
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can Uzzah play Image o' Jealousy
Yes, actually, he can. Without any outside help, even. Also, how is Goliath anymore recurrable than Uzzah? He's not generic, so Outpost does nothing for him....
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can Uzzah play Image o' Jealousy
Yes, actually, he can. Without any outside help, even. Also, how is Goliath anymore recurrable than Uzzah? He's not generic, so Outpost does nothing for him....
Ever heard of Philistine Armorbearer?
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I have. Momentarily forgotten about him, though. But honestly, in Type 1, if you're losing your Goliath enough that you're having to keep recurring him then you're probably also losing battles in which case you're about to lose the game. Uzzah doesn't have that problem.
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In T1, it's arguably better because you can dominant block 2-3 times per game when Goliath dies without drawing out your huge 100 card deck.
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can Uzzah play Image o' Jealousy
Yes, actually, he can. Without any outside help, even. Also, how is Goliath anymore recurrable than Uzzah? He's not generic, so Outpost does nothing for him....
Ever heard of Philistine Armorbearer?
This actually brings up a good point...based on the fact that Philistine Armorbearer can recur Goliath, 12 Finger Giant or Garrison, would he actually be a better EC than Goliath? Essentially Armorbearer can copy any of those 3 very strong ECs so I think it's just worth thinking about...
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can Uzzah play Image o' Jealousy
Yes, actually, he can. Without any outside help, even. Also, how is Goliath anymore recurrable than Uzzah? He's not generic, so Outpost does nothing for him....
Ever heard of Philistine Armorbearer?
This actually brings up a good point...based on the fact that Philistine Armorbearer can recur Goliath, 12 Finger Giant or Garrison, would he actually be a better EC than Goliath? Essentially Armorbearer can copy any of those 3 very strong ECs so I think it's just worth thinking about...
Seven Wicked Spirits can do all that AND interrupt Wall. SWS is the best character in the game.
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Goliath Ftw. uzzah is cool and works well as a splash or theme card yes but seriously ONE block?
Goliath has a well established theme and one of the best Sa's ive seen yet, ALSO I MEAN WHO DOESN'T LIKE TAUNT
oh and
Philly Armorbearer > SWS
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If an EC can get another EC, it's not the first one that counts.
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Philly Armorbearer > SWS
I fail to see how that's possible, considering SWS is the best character in the game.
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Outpost can discard SWS to grab Armorbearer.
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It jsut shows how versatile sws is! I can even discard him from my hand to satisfy the site discard lost soul.
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Vote Uzzah!!!
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Not only is Goliath almost never an autoblock, but he also allows your opponent to use two different heroes' abilities. And there are still very few counters to Uzzah.
except fbtn, preblock ignore, CTB, crown of thorns, immune to brown, the new custom hero sa that negates SA's on EC's of */2 or less, et/aocp. any prophet/hiddeent treasures and a shuffle/convert/discard/remove
Goliath ftw.
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Not only is Goliath almost never an autoblock, but he also allows your opponent to use two different heroes' abilities. And there are still very few counters to Uzzah.
except fbtn, preblock ignore, CTB, crown of thorns, immune to brown, the new custom hero sa that negates SA's on EC's of */2 or less, et/aocp. any prophet/hiddeent treasures and a shuffle/convert/discard/remove
Half of those hit Goliath too. Plus, Uzzah shouldn't be on the table. He should be in your hand. In which case, FBTN, Joanna, CTB (which really isn't a counter), and preblock are the only things. I'm not sure how Immune to Brown would help...
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actually with the new ruling on reducing defense (by the hunger discussion), crown of thorns would work, even in battle
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actually with the new ruling on reducing defense (by the hunger discussion), crown of thorns would work, even in battle
Citation needed because I haven't heard about that.
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actually with the new ruling on reducing defense (by the hunger discussion), crown of thorns would work, even in battle
It has always worked in battle do you mean it would discard the character?
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actually with the new ruling on reducing defense (by the hunger discussion), crown of thorns would work, even in battle
What? You can go negative in battle, and the fact that Uzzah is in battle means that he can use his ability.
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I think he was saying that they might change that.
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I still don't see how Uzzah couldn't still use his ability if he came from hand.
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I still don't see how Uzzah couldn't still use his ability if he came from hand.
the question of whether he is being discarded due to a game rule or due to his ability. and if he can use his ability if he is being discarded due to a game rule.
its not official yet, but several elders have said they would be in favor of the change.
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Oh yes lets make thaddeus more powerful... and kill pharisees. ::) ;)
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Hunger I could see getting ruled differently because it specifically says "If result is */0 or less, discard Hero" but converting that to a game rule seems illogical and very bad for the game, imho.