Author Topic: Round 2 - Teal - Phinehas son of Eleazar or Priests of Christ (Read 5315 times)

Bryon · « **on:** March 15, 2011, 03:33:28 AM »

Which is the better Redemption hero?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2011, 10:25:11 AM »

This is a close one. I put both in every teal deck I make, so that makes it a little tougher to tell which is actually better...

Isildur · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2011, 06:48:02 PM »

PoC is over rated

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2011, 07:35:25 PM »

PoC had won me so many games after i do ANB... I always get him in my opening hand and he beasts.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:54:18 AM »

Both of these are pretty critical in an all teal offense. However, Phineas + Zeal is way better to splash into just about any other kind of deck.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2011, 01:15:12 AM »

PoC is WAY overrated. I cannot believe this is happening. Phineas can play an interrupt + discard CBN, and can't be captured by Writ or Charms. On top of that, if they try nuking your territory, your heroes are safe.

The Guardian · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2011, 02:28:17 AM »

For real this has to be a joke...Nazareth makes PoC nearly useless. Phinehas wins LS sometimes just for the fact that he can create a mutual destruction with King of Tyrus without any enhancements on either side.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2011, 02:48:10 AM »

UPSET ALERT!

PoC is pretty much only good in one situation: if you draw him on your first turn/before your opponent has had a chance to put an EC down. Otherwise he's pretty much out of sync with everything else that makes Teal good. Phinehas should be winning this hands down...

Master KChief · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2011, 06:43:00 AM »

poc is severely overrated, especially now with naz shutting him down. phin wins on almost all facets by a mile.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:13:20 AM »

I like how all of the PoC fans refuse to post. Or rather, I dislike.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:16:42 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 16, 2011, 11:13:20 AM

I like how all of the PoC fans refuse to post. Or rather, I dislike.

as I was about to post...

PoC+Passover is good and he gets even better in type 2 with 5 of him being NT and generic. My type 2 teal looks sic tricked out with PoC x5

Irish_Luck · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:21:26 AM »

Priest of Christ has plenty of uses. His search can be very useful in either a judges or A-bomb deck if used right. If you get him off the draw he is practically a free lost soul, whether they block or not.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:22:12 AM »

Quote from: Irish_Luck on March 16, 2011, 11:21:26 AM

Priest of Christ has plenty of uses. His search can be very useful in either a judges or A-bomb deck if used right. If you get him off the draw he is practically a free lost soul, whether they block or not.

If they block, you're getting a free soul that you would already get anyway. He just does it a bit quicker.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:25:54 AM »

Quote from: Irish_Luck on March 16, 2011, 11:21:26 AM

Priest of Christ has plenty of uses. His search can be very useful in either a judges or A-bomb deck if used right. If you get him off the draw he is practically a free lost soul, whether they block or not.

I bet that 7/10 times you draw Phinehas first turn when you're opponent draws a soul, you'll get a free soul from him as well. And that's without using a dominant.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:26:03 AM »

This voting process is just proving to me Speed is still the most heavily used archetype.

Bryon · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2011, 01:05:26 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 16, 2011, 11:26:03 AM

This voting process is just proving to me Speed is still the most heavily used archetype.

It's proving to me that the FBN heroes from The Warriors expansion are still too powerful. The Strong Angel, Moses, Captain, and Benaiah all made it to the top 4 of their brigades. Only Ira was left out, and that is mainly due to the huge Genesis flood of heroes, and the recent Job uptick.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2011, 01:13:11 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 16, 2011, 11:26:03 AM

This voting process is just proving to me Speed is still the most heavily used archetype.

You needed a whole March Madness to tell you that?

I voted PoC. NT teal is more important than you think. Sure, Naz hurts them, and I've seen mention of most sites all over these threads. But how often do you see Naz in T1? (I'll get into T2 eventually, I promise.) With territory clearing in teal, like Holy Unto the Lord, it's still fairly easy to force your opponent to block from hand. After all the initiative love, I'm surprised that Phineas is doing that well.

As to their ability outside of Teal, I've never been in favor of splashing one hero for one enhancement. I've always preferred to have a fully-loaded theme.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2011, 05:48:15 PM »

Quote

But how often do you see Naz in T1?

Please join us on ROOT

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2011, 05:49:15 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on March 16, 2011, 01:05:26 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 16, 2011, 11:26:03 AM
This voting process is just proving to me Speed is still the most heavily used archetype.
It's proving to me that the FBN heroes from The Warriors expansion are still too powerful. The Strong Angel, Moses, Captain, and Benaiah all made it to the top 4 of their brigades. Only Ira was left out, and that is mainly due to the huge Genesis flood of heroes, and the recent Job uptick.

And all of those cards are most commonly played in a faster, spead style offense because they require little additional support.

Master KChief · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2011, 06:20:23 PM »

just because people vote for it doesnt mean its powerful...this thread being a prime example.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2011, 06:24:21 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 16, 2011, 06:20:23 PM

just because people vote for it doesnt mean its powerful...this thread being a prime example.

Exactly. Not who's more powerful, but who the general populace thinks is better. Which made making brackets really interesting. Who did I think everyone else thought was the best?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2011, 06:45:31 PM »

Yeah. If we were actually voting on who was best, Watchful Servant would be makign a strong run at the Title.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16, 2011, 07:08:23 PM »

Except, by the time your opponents deck is low enough for him to become effective, they probably have ways to counter him.

Master KChief · « **Reply #23 on:** March 16, 2011, 07:12:35 PM »

im assuming that was sarcasm...

browarod · « **Reply #24 on:** March 16, 2011, 07:24:58 PM »

Guys, seriously, everyone has a different idea about what the "best hero" is, which is why these polls are even working at all. Different playgroups have different metas (no meta is more important than any other, except maybe the meta at Nationals) which leads to different heroes getting the spotlight from different people. One person may think Watchful Servant is the best, another might go with Thad, a third might think something completely random. That doesn't inherently make any of them wrong (or right).

Master KChief · « **Reply #25 on:** March 16, 2011, 07:32:53 PM »

no meta is more 'important' than any other, but some meta's are more powerful than others. a meta that abuses buckler is obviously more powerful than a meta that uses que.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2011, 11:13:09 AM »

Despite Thad getting pulled through by recommendations of good players, it doesn't look like people are swaying on this one. Jordan, Justin, and MKC have all said that Phineas is far superior to PoC.

Red · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2011, 11:52:37 AM »

Quote from: Bryon on March 16, 2011, 01:05:26 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 16, 2011, 11:26:03 AM
This voting process is just proving to me Speed is still the most heavily used archetype.
It's proving to me that the FBN heroes from The Warriors expansion are still too powerful. The Strong Angel, Moses, Captain, and Benaiah all made it to the top 4 of their brigades. Only Ira was left out, and that is mainly due to the huge Genesis flood of heroes, and the recent Job uptick.

Because the other heros by them selvelves stink.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #28 on:** March 17, 2011, 04:25:20 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 17, 2011, 11:13:09 AM

Jordan, Justin, and MKC have all said that Phineas is far superior to PoC.

Don't forget me

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2011, 04:49:48 PM »

PoC wins for its shininess.

Master KChief · « **Reply #30 on:** March 17, 2011, 05:01:32 PM »

thats what i was going to say...poc is more than likely winning because of its nats promo status and gold border.

browarod · « **Reply #31 on:** March 17, 2011, 05:24:29 PM »

People aren't idiots just because they disagree with what some "REP"s (and Elders) say. Sure you may think Phinehas is better, but in teal decks I've used that included one or both, I have used PoC for more successful rescue attempts than I have used Phinehas for. Does that mean PoC is "better"? For me, yes. Does that mean PoC is OH MAH GOODNESS, THE BEST HERO OF THE TWO HANDS DOWN AND ANYONE THAT DISAGREES DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING? No way. You obviously think Phinehas is better, which you are perfectly allowed to think. But to say that one card or another is winning just because "it's shiny and is a promo" is an insult to people's intelligence. It's like me saying you only picked Phinehas because he has BIG NUMBERS and the pic looks COOL. You don't know, so don't speak against them.

I'm tired of seeing people berating those who voted differently just because they disagree with "the right choice". This is an opinion contest, there is no "right choice", only "your choice". If you don't agree, that's fine, but they're not a worse person just because they have a differing opinion than you.

[/rant]

Bryon · « **Reply #32 on:** March 17, 2011, 05:48:26 PM »

I disagree with your rant. Therefore you are ignorant.

Kidding aside, thank you for the reminder. Please remember, "Always try to be kind to each other."

Master KChief · « **Reply #33 on:** March 17, 2011, 06:38:57 PM »

i believe enough of us in this thread have thoroughly weighed the pros and cons of both characters to arrive at a sound conclusion of who is the 'better' redemption hero. saying peters mother in law is better than mary the mother of james just because you use her alot and shes won a couple rescues for you is fine and dandy, but that doesnt negate the fact of which has won more rescues and been proven over and over through the test of time and high ranking tournaments played by high calibur players to be the 'better' redemption hero. poc is severely limited in scope and only potentially useful early game, is easily shut down by naz (a commonly used card now), retains mediocre numbers, and has a nigh-useless secondary ability (immunity on heroes is on the same scale as ignore on evil characters). the only thing going for it over phin is access to the nt soul.

phin, on the other hand, is accessible at every stage of the game...big numbers to kick a solo kot in the teeth, protection from writ/charms and other popular captures, protection from conversion (phin laughs at gold shield), protects your other heroes from discard (also laughs at plot), and is even wc (though admittedly this is oft not used). oh wait, did i mention his synergy with zeal, one of the most broken and unnegateable 2 card combos since the inception of priests?

its cool to have an opinion and personal bias towards a card, everyones entitled to their own perogative...but when it comes down to the facts, in terms of sheer utility and power creep, phin stands heads and shoulders over 90-100% of teal heroes.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #34 on:** March 17, 2011, 06:48:38 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on March 17, 2011, 04:25:20 PM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 17, 2011, 11:13:09 AM
Jordan, Justin, and MKC have all said that Phineas is far superior to PoC.
Don't forget me

I disagree with many of your disagreements.

Yeah, KoT would absolutely destroy PoC.

browarod · « **Reply #35 on:** March 17, 2011, 06:56:28 PM »

Your "facts" are just as much opinion as anything else considering they depend completely on what others are playing. When what other people are playing changes, so does the usefulness of any one specific card.

That's all I'm going to say on this. I don't want to turn this it an argument.

Master KChief · « **Reply #36 on:** March 17, 2011, 07:05:32 PM »

and whats a poc going to do to a kot? bounce off, chalk another one up for kot.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #37 on:** March 17, 2011, 07:10:59 PM »

There's this card I use in almost every teal deck now... its called ezra's journey.

Master KChief · « **Reply #38 on:** March 17, 2011, 07:21:50 PM »

i believe a cards power creep is also measured by how many other cards are needed to make a 'stop'. kot in most cases requires the hero to use up one additional card (while that card is also a card that must be limited in scope due to kots stellar ability) just to take him out by himself. even if kot loses, its usually a win for d in terms of card advantage. poc/ezras already puts kot at + 1 card advantage, is conditional upon ot human heroes, AND you must be playing as lambo.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #39 on:** March 17, 2011, 07:34:25 PM »

Yeah, and PoC is the only N.T. teal hero, so that means you can band in everyone else.

browarod · « **Reply #40 on:** March 17, 2011, 08:02:35 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on March 17, 2011, 07:34:25 PM

Yeah, and PoC is the only N.T. teal hero

You forgot about Zecharias.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #41 on:** March 17, 2011, 10:13:34 PM »

I didn't mean any offense by my post. I just can't help but think that if PoC were not a national promo and Phinehas was, he would be winning hands down. I'm not sure who all is voting in this thing, but it's unquestionable that more naïve players prefer shininess and pretty pictures over actual playability. I'm almost positive that has played a role in this vote. That shouldn't be offensive to anyone who actually has playstyle reasons for voting for PoC over Phinehas.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #42 on:** March 17, 2011, 10:18:57 PM »

Also playing a role in this vote: Brackets.

News:

Poll

Which is the better Redemption hero?

Author Topic: Round 2 - Teal - Phinehas son of Eleazar or Priests of Christ (Read 5315 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod

Warrior_Monk

browarod

Warrior_Monk

browarod

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod