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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Unofficial Tournaments => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption March Madness => Topic started by: Bryon on March 07, 2012, 02:32:15 AM
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Which is the better Redemption hero?
Susanna (TP)
Daniel (P)
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Go Daniel!
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So, the winner: Susanna. Big surprise. BUT, suppose all of these cards (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/daniel-revival/) were printed. Would that shift the votes?
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Are the people voting even reading Daniel's ability! Yes Susannah can hide souls but Daniel can use HT, band, and negates the opponent's defense. Not to mention negating their forts, and if the happen to be using an N.T. defense, their enhancements too!
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Susanna all the way!
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Daniel is BY FAR the better Hero. Susanna is used in a better decktype, so people will vote for her regardless =/
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Daniel is BY FAR the better Hero. Susanna is used in a better decktype, so people will vote for her regardless =/
Truth. The Daniel/Michael band is probably the best CBN band in the game with the possible exception of PhilBart. So many options.
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Daniel is BY FAR the better Hero. Susanna is used in a better decktype, so people will vote for her regardless =/
my lost souls on the bottom of my deck and instant inish disagree.
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Are the people voting even reading Daniel's ability! Yes Susannah can hide souls but Daniel can use HT, band, and negates the opponent's defense. Not to mention negating their forts, and if the happen to be using an N.T. defense, their enhancements too!
Daniel is a great hero except for the fact that for him to work you have to play a Daniel [edit: or Prophets] deck, which means you lose.
I'm pretty sure that Susanna will rescue more LSs than Daniel will.
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Are the people voting even reading Daniel's ability! Yes Susannah can hide souls but Daniel can use HT, band, and negates the opponent's defense. Not to mention negating their forts, and if the happen to be using an N.T. defense, their enhancements too!
Daniel is a great hero except for the fact that for him to work you have to play a Daniel deck, which means you lose.
That is just plain incorrect in all points.
I'm pretty sure that Susanna will rescue more LSs than Daniel will.
Only because she fits in a popular deck, so people will attack with her. However, I posit that Daniel's average (LS's rescued per rescue attempt) will be significantly higher. People attack with Susanna to seek for a card, but she'll lose more RA's than she wins. TGT players win LS's with the Garden Girls/John. Susanna is just a setup Hero.
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Are the people voting even reading Daniel's ability! Yes Susannah can hide souls but Daniel can use HT, band, and negates the opponent's defense. Not to mention negating their forts, and if the happen to be using an N.T. defense, their enhancements too!
Daniel is a great hero except for the fact that for him to work you have to play a Daniel deck, which means you lose.
I'm pretty sure that Susanna will rescue more LSs than Daniel will.
How exactly? I consider him a staple in any prophets deck. Look at your opponent's hand, negate the meta offense (including Gomer if Hosea is out), plus negate cards like Wrath of Satan and Gates of Samaria. I voted Daniel because I think Daniel is the better hero by a long shot.
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Last time I checked 90% of all battles now-a-days are won with CBN battle winners, which white has plenty of and susanna gives you the perfect opportunity to play.
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Last time I checked 90% of all battles now-a-days are won with CBN battle winners, which white has plenty of
Umm....such as?
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Last time I checked 90% of all battles now-a-days are won with CBN battle winners, which white has plenty of and susanna gives you the perfect opportunity to play.
Except for Faith in Our High Priest+Battle Winner, what CBN battle winners does white have? 'He is Risen,' nope. Magnificat, nope. Transfig could be a battle winner I guess…
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Only because she fits in a popular deck
And her deck is popular because it wins, which goes back to my point.
I consider him a staple in any prophets deck.
Good point, I edited my post. However, it doesn't change anything since prophets decks are ALSO not top tier this year.
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TGT isn't top tier this year either, and I actually there's precedent to say that Teal/Green is better than TGT, especially since its faster.
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I'm sorry but what? What precedence is there to say that TGT isn't top tier?
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The fact that Genesis, Gardensciples, and Sam decks are generally agreed upon (at least from what I've seen) to be better than TGT. TGT is high on the tier list, sure, but not top tier.
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most Gardenciples decks I've seen have Suzzy splashed it, but I think when you've one a couple nats in a row you should actually have to LOSE a nats before you can be declared no longer top tier.
Edit: also let me see if I understand this, any deck that contains Samuel is a Sam deck, but gardenciples and TGT are mutually exclusive?
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Last time I checked 90% of all battles now-a-days are won with CBN battle winners, which white has plenty of and susanna gives you the perfect opportunity to play.
Umm....such as?
Except for Faith in Our High Priest+Battle Winner, what CBN battle winners does white have? 'He is Risen,' nope. Magnificat, nope. Transfig could be a battle winner I guess…
I take it that neither of you played against Matt's deck last year? Susie + FioHP + Magnificat/He Is Risen = virtually guaranteed soul. Gabriel gets brought in with HiR to recur Consider the Lilies to recur FioHP and do it all again. And you will never get inish to counter it. All 1/1 ECs will get AotL/Grapes and can't be saved by HT (which must be drawn by the opponent to be used). Susie is also saved by Herod's Temple. A CBN HiR allows for walkins with the TGT ladies. And his deck was so fast that counters like Unholy Writ usually don't get drawn by the opponent in time, or they get DoN'd. And since she's got access to all lost souls, you can basically troll your deck with her, grabbing Doms and other important cards while making rescue attempts.
*insert topic change*
I've got to say, to those who think Susanna is good because she buries lost souls - have you accounted for the souls she brings closer to the top of the deck as well? Frankly, I don't see how she decreases the odds that you won't draw a soul on your next draw, which is the one that she immediately affects. Anyone care to share the calculations behind their statistics?
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1 soul I know for sure is on the bottom of my deck = 1 more lost soul I know for sure I'm not drawing.
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most Gardenciples decks I've seen have Suzzy splashed it, but I think when you've one a couple nats in a row you should actually have to LOSE a nats before you can be declared no longer top tier.
Edit: also let me see if I understand this, any deck that contains Samuel is a Sam deck, but gardenciples and TGT are mutually exclusive?
Sam decks are the blanket term for a spread offense, because most decks with a spread offense can splash Sam in for some extra drawing. Gardensciples and TGT are, at least in my opinion, different decks, because of how different a traditional TGT deck (even WaterTomb) is from a Gardensciples deck. If you want to disagree, that's fine, that's just what most people I've talked to have agreed on (which is admittedly a relatively small amount of people). I'm pretty sure that most people would agree that straight TGT isn't good enough to compete with the three deck archetypes I listed.
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The fact that Genesis, Gardensciples, and Sam decks are generally agreed upon (at least from what I've seen) to be better
I'm including Susanna in the Gardensciples decks that are in the top tier. Which of those 3 decks is Daniel in?
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The fact that Genesis, Gardensciples, and Sam decks are generally agreed upon (at least from what I've seen) to be better
I'm including Susanna in the Gardensciples decks that are in the top tier. Which of those 3 decks is Daniel in?
None of them, and in general, I tend to vote towards the deck that the hero is in rather than the hero itself, but Daniel is so good that it's hard for me not to vote for him. I actually got the idea to try splashing him into a TGT/NT Prophets deck, which I'm working on now.
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I for one agree with Chronic on TGT being distinct/inferior to Gardensciples.
As for why I picked Daniel, I have two words from a high school debater. Impact Calculus.
Joanna can grab a dom (+3 impact) which can give you a great edge, and put a soul beneath deck (+ 1 impact) which potentially is helpful defensively and still have inish to drop FioHP + HiR.(+2 impact). Along with her identifier (+2 impact) and CBN status (+2 impact) it's pretty darn good.
However what about Daniel? Dan counters everything in the meta defense even Gomer in some cases with his negates (+4 impact) He can band or look at hand, both useful abilities (+3 impact) as for enhancement stuff he's white/green giving him access to lots of awesome stuff and the ability to use HT for preblock wins (+3 impact). Lastly his CBN rounds him off well. (+2 impact)
Total for Joanna 9 Impact points
Total for Daniel 12 Impact points
It's really close but in the end Daniel wins out.
EDIT: Joanna can also put a dom beneath deck if you get multiple doms which is at least a -1 impact (Joanna's total has been adjusted to reflect opinions of below posts.
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Not to mention Suzie doesn't deserve +2 for "soul hiding" since she shifts all souls below her purview to the top.
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Also remember that if, for instance, you get both SoG and NJ off of Susie, one of them has to go under.
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Fixed, now Daniel is up by three now
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Let's compare Suzy vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense and Daniel vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense:
Daniel vs. Uzzah: Daniel wins, Uzzah does nothing
Daniel vs. Sabbath Breaker: Daniel wins, SB does nothing
Daniel vs. The Amalekite's Slave: Daniel wins, TAS does nothing
Daniel vs. KoT: Daniel can play any white/green battle winner to win, usually without fear of negation, since no one uses Gold/Orange negates.
Daniel vs. Gomer: Gomer can still band to any male EC, but they won't do anything.
Suzy vs. Uzzah: Uzzah dc's an art, and gets a successful block.
Suzy vs. Sabbath Breaker: Sabbath Breaker draws 3 AND makes Suzy use a battle winner in order to get an LS.
Suzy vs. TAS: TAS captures himself generating a Soul, and can search for one of the above to get their benefits.
Suzy vs. KoT: Suzy needs two cards, FioHP+Battle Winner, or AotL, to win.
Suzy vs. Gomer: Gomer can band to any of the above, and get their benefits.
Just some food for thought.
P.S. Daniel is now winning! Go Danny go!
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If Hosea is in play, Gomer can't band.
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What I'm curious about is how this matchup occured so quickly? These recent ones are the first white contests I have seen. Were both of these heroes "middle of the pack" in voting, or did one of them get several votes and the other one hardly any? I ask because this one is just hard to call, for me at least.
Also, and this may have been addressed elsewhere, do 2-color heroes get entered in both colors, or does someone choose a contest for them? If they are only in one contest, like say having Daniel only competing in white, should I be voting only on his usefulness with white enhancements?
Thanks for the clarification.
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What I'm curious about is how this matchup occured so quickly? These recent ones are the first white contests I have seen. Were both of these heroes "middle of the pack" in voting, or did one of them get several votes and the other one hardly any? I ask because this one is just hard to call, for me at least.
Also, and this may have been addressed elsewhere, do 2-color heroes get entered in both colors, or does someone choose a contest for them? If they are only in one contest, like say having Daniel only competing in white, should I be voting only on his usefulness with white enhancements?
Thanks for the clarification.
I think what happened was the early voters put the bi-colored heroes in their division, but it turned out they were added by Bryon to one color or the other. I'm not sure what the seeds are, but I'm guessing it's a 1v8 or 2v7.
You can vote for the bi-colored heroes on whatever criteria makes sense to you. If you want to vote for Daniel solely on his whiteness, (racist!!!!11!!) then go for it.
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Glad to see Daniel getting the respect he deserves, given that he hasn't the rest of the season.
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Let's compare Suzy vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense and Daniel vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense:
Daniel vs. Uzzah: Daniel wins, Uzzah does nothing
Daniel vs. Sabbath Breaker: Daniel wins, SB does nothing
Daniel vs. The Amalekite's Slave: Daniel wins, TAS does nothing
Daniel vs. KoT: Daniel can play any white/green battle winner to win, usually without fear of negation, since no one uses Gold/Orange negates.
Daniel vs. Gomer: Gomer can still band to any male EC, but they won't do anything.
Suzy vs. Uzzah: Uzzah dc's an art, and gets a successful block.
Suzy vs. Sabbath Breaker: Sabbath Breaker draws 3 AND makes Suzy use a battle winner in order to get an LS.
Suzy vs. TAS: TAS captures himself generating a Soul, and can search for one of the above to get their benefits.
Suzy vs. KoT: Suzy needs two cards, FioHP+Battle Winner, or AotL, to win.
Suzy vs. Gomer: Gomer can band to any of the above, and get their benefits.
Just some food for thought.
P.S. Daniel is now winning! Go Danny go!
Yes because everyone knows that negating a special ability on a character makes you win. In the first scenario I'm guessing that you're assuming the defense has no enhancements with which to combat daniel, yet all of the sudden in the second defense has counters to the white band winners. fair comparison, this is not.
Not to mention Suzie doesn't deserve +2 for "soul hiding" since she shifts all souls below her purview to the top.
Yeah that's called luck and it happens every time you draw cards. The difference being if there are 7 LSs in my deck, and I bury one, now there's only 6 LSs that have the potential to be on top of my deck. before there was a potential for all 7. now I only got a C in calc but I think you guys are missing the point.
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Let's compare Suzy vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense and Daniel vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense:
Daniel vs. Uzzah: Daniel wins, Uzzah does nothing
Daniel vs. Sabbath Breaker: Daniel wins, SB does nothing
Daniel vs. The Amalekite's Slave: Daniel wins, TAS does nothing
Daniel vs. KoT: Daniel can play any white/green battle winner to win, usually without fear of negation, since no one uses Gold/Orange negates.
Daniel vs. Gomer: Gomer can still band to any male EC, but they won't do anything.
Suzy vs. Uzzah: Uzzah dc's an art, and gets a successful block.
Suzy vs. Sabbath Breaker: Sabbath Breaker draws 3 AND makes Suzy use a battle winner in order to get an LS.
Suzy vs. TAS: TAS captures himself generating a Soul, and can search for one of the above to get their benefits.
Suzy vs. KoT: Suzy needs two cards, FioHP+Battle Winner, or AotL, to win.
Suzy vs. Gomer: Gomer can band to any of the above, and get their benefits.
Just some food for thought.
P.S. Daniel is now winning! Go Danny go!
You can't consider Daniel's SA and not Susyboo's. Well, I mean, you can, but it's not really fair. I could consider Susyboo's status as a hero and not Daniels, meaning Susyboo wins by default.
tl;dr: I voted for Daniel.
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Yes because everyone knows that negating a special ability on a character makes you win. In the first scenario I'm guessing that you're assuming the defense has no enhancements with which to combat daniel, yet all of the sudden in the second defense has counters to the white band winners. fair comparison, this is not.
He was specifically talking about a standard meta defense. Susie is vulnerable to every single evil character in a meta defense, but does have an advantage against Plot. Since A Slave and Gomer don't win battles, but have abilities that help them both a lot, I'll give them each a half point, which would translate to Susie winning four battles and Daniel losing one. Additionally, Daniel can both look at the opponent's hand, and use Hidden Treasures, so he's much more well-prepared at the beginning of a battle than Susie is.
Yeah that's called luck and it happens every time you draw cards. The difference being if there are 7 LSs in my deck, and I bury one, now there's only 6 LSs that have the potential to be on top of my deck. before there was a potential for all 7. now I only got a C in calc but I think you guys are missing the point.
Exactly, that's nothing but luck, so you can use a factor that's determined by nothing but luck as a benefit for Susie.
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Everything in redemption is based on luck, but Suzzys ability, just like speed, helps give you at least some control over it.
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It's complete luck of the draw; if you want to cite a feigned sense of "control" as making Susie better, that's fine, but if you don't draw any souls with her, then every other soul in the deck is that much closer to being drawn.
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Any time you DRAW CARDS every other soul in the deck is closer to being drawn, at least Susanna gives you a chance to bury them. You're argument doesn't make sense, by virtue any time a card is removed from the deck the rest of the cards in that deck are closer to being drawn, with Susanna you have a chance to bury your lost souls. There is no way that isn't an advantage especially in speed vs. speed when often times games come down to who drew 3 LSs first.
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Daniel stops one of the best ecs in the game and can play HiR preblock so he gets my vote.
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Any time you DRAW CARDS every other soul in the deck is closer to being drawn, at least Susanna gives you a chance to bury them. You're argument doesn't make sense, by virtue any time a card is removed from the deck the rest of the cards in that deck are closer to being drawn, with Susanna you have a chance to bury your lost souls. There is no way that isn't an advantage especially in speed vs. speed when often times games come down to who drew 3 LSs first.
But it's still just luck. Unless you have six or seven female NT heroes in play and you manage to bury all of your lost souls, Susie's effect is negligible. I see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, burying one or two lost souls usually isn't going to have too huge of an effect on the game. Even if it does, Daniel's ability is still way, way better.
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Daniel stops one of the best ecs in the game and can play HiR preblock so he gets my vote.
To be fair, he does negate HiR, but if you use The Sabbath...
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First of all, Suzanna is awesome. She was my favorite hero from her set. People forget that if both players are using NT characters, she might be looking at 7+ cards sometimes, AND the ability to put them back in the order that she chooses. She will almost always have initiative, and her ability cannot be negated. In an all-white NT female/TGT deck she is just devastating.
But despite all of that, I voted for Daniel. Wow, how many CBN abilities can one character have? He pauses fortresses, He looks at opp's hand, He negates evil characters, and then he can band to Michael or another Daniel hero. He can combine his ability to look at opp's hand with Hidden Treasures so that you can see EXACTLY what you need to do next to win the battle. He has access to both the Golgotha site and the Nazareth site. I can MAYBE see him being weaker in Type 2 than Suzanna just because you can only have one of him. But short of that, he's just SO useful.
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I can MAYBE see him being weaker in Type 2 than Suzanna just because you can only have one of him. But short of that, he's just SO useful.
You can have two of multi color cards in T2 now.
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I can MAYBE see him being weaker in Type 2 than Suzanna just because you can only have one of him. But short of that, he's just SO useful.
You can have two of multi color cards in T2 now.
Good point. I had forgotten that. I rarely ever played Type 2.
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I'm not sure which hero is better (haven't played with or against Daniel yet) but I think people are underestimating Susanna.
Her CBN/protected from ability to grab a card of choice can be huge. However be able to put souls on the bottom of deck can be even better. I've had multiple games where she singlehandedly won me the game because she put 3 of my souls on the bottom of deck, even allowing a comeback from 4-0/4-1 to win. I haven't seen any other hero do this. I have multiple times had the # of females be above 10. The deck manipulation with that is amazing.
I garauntee that she makes a difference (on average) of not having souls come out. I don't know how to express it in a mathematical formula but the people who say it is just luck are wrong (even if x is lower like 3-5). Think of it this way:
On every turn you draw 3 cards and if there is a lost soul it comes into play. With Susie, every other "draw" you get to put the souls on the bottom of deck. I'll take the odds of drawing a soul reduced by 50%. If you hit 1 or 2 souls this can often be enough to give you the game.
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I take it that neither of you played against Matt's deck last year? Susie + FioHP + Magnificat/He Is Risen = virtually guaranteed soul.
Virtually, but yeah, that was really annoying.
I voted for Susie because she wins games by grabbing SoG/NJ. She IS TGT's speed, and can grab just what you need to shut down your opponent (and is more reliable than people would like to believe). Also, Daniel isn't a good white hero, so by no means should he win in the white category. Daniel is a pretty good green hero, but not white.
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I take it that neither of you played against Matt's deck last year? Susie + FioHP + Magnificat/He Is Risen = virtually guaranteed soul.
Virtually, but yeah, that was really annoying.
I voted for Susie because she wins games by grabbing SoG/NJ. She IS TGT's speed, and can grab just what you need to shut down your opponent (and is more reliable than people would like to believe). Also, Daniel isn't a good white hero, so by no means should he win in the white category. Daniel is a pretty good green hero, but not white.
This is a good point. Daniel doesn't splash well, in my opinion, into white. I guess I see why they needed him to be white (for Daniel decks), but most of the best white cards are NT (IMO). Sadly I confess that I was voting for him as a green/prophet hero, because I didn't see a chance to vote for him among the green guys and gals.
But it didn't ask who is the better white hero, only who is the better hero.
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I'm with the previous couple guys, I can't legitimately vote for Daniel in the White category. He's a great hero, just not the greatest white one.
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IMO, the contest is for the best Hero, so that at every level, the brigade shouldn't matter, just who is the better hero. If this were the finals, then who would you vote for? If you believe that Daniel is the better Hero in general, even though Susanna is obviously a better Hero for a White offense, you should vote Daniel. Daniel shouldn't be punished just because he wasn't put in the Green division.
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Go guy that my parents named me after!
Also, Daniel wins in a side battle vs Susanna... he negates every one of her enhancements. Therefore, he is the better hero.
This will officially be one of my voting qualifiers. Who wins in a side battle between the two.
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Because side battles are so common, eh... ::)
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No, because side battles are so epic 8)
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Pot of Manna. Rhymes with Susanna. BAM. Susie wins.
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Pot of Manna. Rhymes with Susanna. BAM. Susie wins.
Because Pot of Manna is so common, eh... ::)
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Pot of Manna. Rhymes with Susanna. BAM. Susie wins.
Because Pot of Manna is so common, eh... ::)
I add a copy of Pot of Manna to every deck. That way I always have a coaster available to place my soda can on.
Don't be hatin' on Pot of Manna. ;)
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Pot of Manna. Rhymes with Susanna. BAM. Susie wins.
Because Pot of Manna is so common, eh... ::)
Rhymes are cooler than Johnny players.
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Also, Daniel wins in a side battle vs Susanna... he negates every one of her enhancements. Therefore, he is the better hero.
Susanna (TP) cannot be negated.
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Also, Daniel wins in a side battle vs Susanna... he negates every one of her enhancements. Therefore, he is the better hero.
Susanna (TP) cannot be negated.
Her enhancements can be negated, which is what he said.
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I think people are getting off track here. I think the way to judge which hero is better is not by comparing how each handles specific situations (or comparing what each rhymes with, although that is a bit more accurate), but rather how useful they are, because there is no such thing as a one-card offense. IMO, the power level of a card is defined by how well the card supports a winning deck, and that ability is reflected in popularity. You might say "Daniel is so powerful! He negates your whole defense and looks at your hand CBNOMGOSH!!1!!11!" or "Susanna is so OP! She puts all my souls at the bottom so you can't make a rescuePWNAGE!1!!!1" but which of these do you actually use more? If it's Susanna, vote for her; if it's Daniel, vote for him.
I personally thought Susanna would be the quick and obvious choice, because I've never even seen Daniel in a deck, whereas she is in pretty much any deck with NT women. But I haven't actually played in quite a while, so maybe Daniel's out there kicking butt and I've just never heard about it.
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BubbleBoy, most of the time I do agree with you that it should be based on the deck (and usefulness to the deck) rather than the hero, but Daniel is, frankly, quite splashable, and has enough very solid abilities to merit him with my vote. Add the fact that he's 100% CBN, and that drives it home for me (admittedly, Susie is CBN as well, but I don't think that matters as much). Daniel can just handle so many different situations, especially when given support. Plus, Daniel decks, while not top tier, are certainly viable, and I had the pleasure of having my butt handed to me by someone playing a Daniel deck twice today.
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Plus, Daniel decks, while not top tier, are certainly viable, and I had the pleasure of having my butt handed to me by someone playing a Daniel deck twice today.
I would like to know more about this...were you using Crimson by any chance?
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No, just the standalone, so he was negating my hero abilities and banding. Admittedly, he got a great draw and I got a bad one (I was using Sam), but even so, Daniel decks are viable.
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To be fair, it was a Daniel and Isaiah deck, but it does include all 6 Daniel Heroes in the game (Rack, Shack, Benny, Danny, Mike and Gabe). But in the second game, Daniel did get 4/5 rescues.
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Also, Daniel wins in a side battle vs Susanna... he negates every one of her enhancements. Therefore, he is the better hero.
Susanna (TP) cannot be negated.
Her enhancements can be negated, which is what he said.
What enhancements? I thought we were needlessly arguing best hero, not best deck, and several people use "enhancement" for "special ability". Besides, A Child is Born (P) and Transfiguration (Ap) are also cannot be negated, and Words of Encouragement is OT.
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No high-tier decks are going to be using A Child is Born, and Transfiguration is also not used that much (though it's more viable). 'He is Risen', No Need for Spices, Passover Hymn (in Gardensciples), Magnificat, and others I'm sure I'm forgetting are all negated by Daniel. Words of Encouragement is fine, but it's also not a battle winner. I've never seen anyone who wasn't a new player or otherwise a new member use "enhancement" to refer to a hero's special ability.
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I guess SamSam can kiss S tier goodbye. :-* ;)
obvious troll is obvious.
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Rack, Shack, Benny
Kudos for Veggie Tales reference. :D
On another note.
Dan is green which means he can haz ANB! ;)
Seriously though I think that we should consider Daniel's greeness and the awesomeness he has because of that. It allows him to drop things like Two Bears, Search, ANB, and Spiritual warfare preblock with HT. I think that when considering the best 'hero' I think that we have to consider the greenness of Dan because green adds a new (and far more potent) dynamic to him.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco#ws)
That's absurd. Being Green is a negative.
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BubbleBoy, most of the time I do agree with you that it should be based on the deck (and usefulness to the deck) rather than the hero, but Daniel is, frankly, quite splashable, and has enough very solid abilities to merit him with my vote. Add the fact that he's 100% CBN, and that drives it home for me (admittedly, Susie is CBN as well, but I don't think that matters as much). Daniel can just handle so many different situations, especially when given support. Plus, Daniel decks, while not top tier, are certainly viable, and I had the pleasure of having my butt handed to me by someone playing a Daniel deck twice today.
Daniel is somewhat splashable, but the problem is if you splash him into a deck he won't have the support that other cards have.
I'm still not sure why Daniel got put in White instead of Green. He wouldn't have made it past first round in green, so he got shoved into a category with weaker heroes? (let's face it, TGT is why white is so powerful, not MMOJ and Susie)
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And in a side battle scenario, Daniel would negate TGT!
Therefore, he is better.
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Not counting Daniel, white had 11 heroes nominated. One of those was Timothy. The 8th non-Daniel hero in white had 6 nominations.
Not counting Daniel, green had 13 heroes nominated, all of whom are better than Timothy. The 8th non-Daniel hero in green had 7 nominations.
I put Daniel where there were fewer nominated heroes, and where the 8th hero had fewer nominations. As a plus, of the 7 heroes Daniel can band to, 3 are white. 0 are green. The fact that green has better enhancements (and the fact that prophets have better artifact and fortress support) would have tilted me toward green, but the fact that green already had so many decent heroes to include meant that Daniel went to white. Who knows, maybe he'll represent green next year.
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Bryon is a fascist for not including Timothy and thinking anyone in green is better than him.
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Maybe Daniel was placed in white because he has a common denominator with him :p
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Bryon is a fascist for not including Timothy and thinking anyone in green is better than him.
It has nothing to do with the strength of his card. I just don't like his name. :P
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Fine. I'm going home.
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Go Daniel!
Incidentally, Suzy was winning by 7-8 votes when I posted this. Does this make me a hipster?
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Fine. I'm going home.
LOL. Truth be told, I love the name Timothy. I just suspected that the only reason he was nominated was because of his name.
I feel bad for players named Timothy who wish there was a more worthy hero for their namesake (likewise players named Mark). The Timothy I have on my "Future Cards" list is so much better than either of the existing Timothys that I just can't take an Timothy seriously as a nomination. Maybe that will make you feel a little better?
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I feel bad for players named Timothy who wish there was a more worthy hero for their namesake (likewise players named Mark). The Timothy I have on my "Future Cards" list is so much better than either of the existing Timothys that I just can't take an Timothy seriously as a nomination. Maybe that will make you feel a little better?
Meanwhile, Andrew is an awesome hero. The best Red/Purple decks are disciples decks. 8)
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I suppose the current John will suffice.
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I feel bad for players named Timothy who wish there was a more worthy hero for their namesake (likewise players named Mark). The Timothy I have on my "Future Cards" list is so much better than either of the existing Timothys that I just can't take an Timothy seriously as a nomination. Maybe that will make you feel a little better?
Essentially every Hero in the game - from Philemon to Green Joanna to Gaius - is better than the apostles Timothy (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/LinkedDocuments/Timothy%20(Ap).gif) who doesn't allow himself to be in battle on his own. So saying that there's a planned card better than Timothy is like saying there's a person more fun than Alan Greenspan or a show more beloved than the Star Wars Christmas Special.
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That is what happens when you let the art director design the set.
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Fine. I'm going home.
LOL. Truth be told, I love the name Timothy. I just suspected that the only reason he was nominated was because of his name.
I suspect he was nominated because of this post. (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-march-madness/next-month/msg417071/#msg417071)
I feel bad for players named Timothy who wish there was a more worthy hero for their namesake (likewise players named Mark). The Timothy I have on my "Future Cards" list is so much better than either of the existing Timothys that I just can't take an Timothy seriously as a nomination. Maybe that will make you feel a little better?
Yeah, what about those of us with non-biblical names who missed out on the chance to get a custom card?
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No, I nominated him because he's the best hero in the game.
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I feel bad for players named Timothy who wish there was a more worthy hero for their namesake (likewise players named Mark).
Amen brother. I sure hope you have an AWESOME version of Mark on that future list of cards :)
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(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz18%2FLambo_Diablo_Svtt%2FMark.jpg&hash=6eb0edf6565aeed46728e4e18c8769109d5959b7)
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(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz18%2FLambo_Diablo_Svtt%2FMark.jpg&hash=6eb0edf6565aeed46728e4e18c8769109d5959b7)
How did you get access to my list??!!?!?!?!?
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Hey Mark has a II Timothy reference.
Does that mean that he's twice as useless and Timothy? ::)
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Danny is on track to knock out last year's winner in the first round. Big upset. =)
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Which just means it will be that much more devastating when he loses to MMoJ. :( I gotta say though, after being the main workhorse in 3 consecutive wins vs. Sam decks, Daniel is quickly becoming my favorite Hero in the game. He's. Just. So. Good. The best part is when I look at a meta-defense player's hand with him and see Uzzah, TAS, and Sabbath Breaker all just sitting there so uselessly.
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Question: What happens if you play one of the green enhancements on Daniel that says his next enhancement cannot be negated, and then try to play a NT enhancement? Does the ability happen or not?
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Question: What happens if you play one of the green enhancements on Daniel that says his next enhancement cannot be negated, and then try to play a NT enhancement? Does the ability happen or not?
Yes, the ability on the NT enhancement would take effect.
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If Daniel is so great, why don' people use them in their decks?
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If Daniel is so great, why don' people use them in their decks?
-1'd. Professors are people too... >:(
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If Daniel is so great, why don' people use them in their decks?
-1'd. Professors are people too... >:(
Okay so there's one. Anybody else?
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Based on the logic already submitted, Daniel is a worse version of every Fbtn hero in the game. I don't need to look at their hand to know Uzzah and Breaker will sit there uselessly.
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Based on the logic already submitted, Daniel is a worse version of every Fbtn hero in the game. I don't need to look at their hand to know Uzzah and Breaker will sit there uselessly.
Wait, looking at hand is a bad thing? Especially with HT? Why play next when you know they've got nothing to block with?
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The only play off HT being an anti-plot? Still don't need to look at their hand to know Fbtnb still poops all over their meta defense.
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I will say this, I have faced a lot more of Susanna than I have of Daniel. Shoot, I've faced HUR more than I've faced Daniel... (you catch the pun there?)
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It appears that, in this poll at least, people are voting on who they think is better, not who fits into a more popular deck more easily.
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Which is, for the tournament as a whole, a good move. It shows people will vote for the best hero in some circumstances and for the best deck in anothers.
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How is going back and forth between the two a good thing>
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I doubt most people are voting for the better hero here. I'm betting alot of votes are due to Daniel being the newest and shiniest Nats promo, which still makes it a popularity contest.
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I wonder if Split Altar would win best green enhancement...
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I wonder if Split Altar would win best green enhancement...
Maybe if it could shuffle face down arts… ;)
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I doubt most people are voting for the better hero here. I'm betting alot of votes are due to Daniel being the newest and shiniest Nats promo, which still makes it a popularity contest.
See Goliath.
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See Goliath. KoT vs SWS
FTFY
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I doubt most people are voting for the better hero here. I'm betting alot of votes are due to Daniel being the newest and shiniest Nats promo, which still makes it a popularity contest.
See Goliath.
Of course, the key difference there is that Goliath hadn't been released when he ultimately lost April Fools, and Daniel has been out for 8 months now. I've heard a few people mention that they haven't even ever seen Daniel played, and for the most part, he has been entirely absent from the online meta. I think claiming that Daniel is beating Susie by 5 votes (out of 45 votes total, mind), simply due to the fact that he's the newer card is pretty ridiculous. He's been out for 8 months now, and "he's the new and shiny card!" argument doesn't work when there's more people calling out, "who even uses him?!"
We've already examined the two cards assuming that neither one is receiving any support (a point that Daniel wins by a landslide, mind), let's look at it from just a little support then, maybe 3-4 cards. Even then, Daniel is still, in my mind, way ahead. Susie would need to take a couple of those cards and just have them as female NT heroes (which, is one of them is MMoJ and the other is another Garden Girl, I'd rather just be rescuing with them anyway) just so her ability isn't a glorified d1. Maybe she has 'He is Risen' and Herod's Temple or something like that, and shoot, gains a white enhancement off her ability (a pretty bad grab most of the time, but at times, it's exactly what you need), letting her survive a Christian Martyr and get a chance to play a negatable good enhancement. We'll neuter Daniel and only give him three cards: Search, Hidden Treasures, and Two Bears. Daniel right away negates protect forts and all evil abilities so there won't be any auto-blocks coming his way. He takes a peak at his opponent's hand so he knows exactly what's coming, then pulls out whatever card he needs to deal with it (or, if there's nothing that needs dealt with, just searches the opponent's deck and takes out Plot or Confusion or something).
I tried to make that relatively unbiased, and I may have failed miserably, but I did end up giving Susie two extra cards over Daniel and I gave her some good cards to work with too. The fact of the matter is she's a support character. She has great initiative, but unless she plays FiOHP, everything she plays can also be interrupted (and white, by the way, doesn't have that many interrupts of their own [admittedly, only purple and teal really have a ridiculous amount to write home about]), so her initiative only really goes so far. She may fit into a superior deck than Daniel does, but she's not the best hero in those decks. Her ability doesn't win battles, Daniel's does. For me, that's an easy one. Daniel should win this, but MMoJ v. Daniel is a much, much tougher battle for me.
How is going back and forth between the two a good thing>
Because it shows that people are going by the individual merits of a card and it's placement, rather than a flat set of inward rules. Sometimes individual heroes deserve to be voted for because they're great heroes, over heroes that fall into great decks. Likewise, sometimes heroes that fall into great decks deserve to be voted over heroes that are just great (Angel Under the Oak v. CoTH [or TSA] is going to be vicious).
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I like Oak, but there is a major weakness he has, Jacob + any judge in your territory... ouch!!! Rachel+Jacob+CotH... not bad... its going to be a tight race with Oak and CoTH
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I've heard a few people mention that they haven't even ever seen Daniel played, and for the most part, he has been entirely absent from the online meta. I think claiming that Daniel is beating Susie by 5 votes (out of 45 votes total, mind), simply due to the fact that he's the newer card is pretty ridiculous. He's been out for 8 months now, and "he's the new and shiny card!" argument doesn't work when there's more people calling out, "who even uses him?!"
So what you're trying to say...is that even though people dont use him, that doesnt make him a 'new and shiny card'? Riiiiiight. A cards playability or lack of it certainly does not correlate to it being a new card or not. Daniel was released in a weaker theme that is not top tier, and people really wonder 'who even uses him'? The fact he came out 8 months ago is also completely irrelevant. You might have an argument if Cactus released 3 more expansions like other CCG's between that time to warrant him an 'old' card. 6 of those 8 months are completely DEAD for the season until serious tournaments start beginning. Fact is he is the latest and most brand newest Nationals promo with limited amounts in circulation. There is still PLENTY of hype surrounding a card of that status, as with any brand new Nationals promo first year. I am more than sure plenty of RLK's have voted for Daniel in this poll based soley on those credentials alone.
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I'm saying that a card can't have a lot of hype surrounding it if nobody uses it, and if you want to chalk Susie's (last year's winner, which probably holds a fair amount of hype on its own) loss in the first round down to RLKs, then you do that.
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A card can have hype for many different reasons. Playability is one. Brand spankin' new is another. Rarity can be another. Its fairly obvoius Daniel still holds a lot of hype because it satisfies two of those conditions.
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True, and I'm not saying Daniel didn't get some votes just because that card is that card, but Susie did win last year, and that's going to pick up votes from the same kind of people who'd vote for Daniel just because he's a $35 card. At least three people changed their votes from Susie to Daniel (saw Susie's number go down and Danny's go up) during the course of this whole debate, so people did clearly think the Daniel side of the debate had a lot of merit, and I don't think "RLKs vote for the shiny new card" accounts for a six vote difference this late in the game against the former challenger.
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Yes because if there's one thing RLKs are known for its resisting changing to te popular opinion
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True, and I'm not saying Daniel didn't get some votes just because that card is that card, but Susie did win last year, and that's going to pick up votes from the same kind of people who'd vote for Daniel just because he's a $35 card.
I dont understand your point here. You're describing two different types of voters. One type of person votes for a card based on playability, the other votes based on new card hype.
At least three people changed their votes from Susie to Daniel (saw Susie's number go down and Danny's go up) during the course of this whole debate, so people did clearly think the Daniel side of the debate had a lot of merit...
OR, people simply look at the leading numbers on the first page and decide to jump on the bandwagon, because honestly at this point this thread has become tl;dr, probably even moreso to an RLK.
and I don't think "RLKs vote for the shiny new card" accounts for a six vote difference this late in the game against the former challenger.
Sure it does. What other logical possibility could it be? There are more RLK's than seasoned players.
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I dont understand your point here. You're describing two different types of voters. One type of person votes for a card based on playability, the other votes based on new card hype.
No, I'm really not. RLKs are just as likely to go, "Susie won last year! Susie! Susie! Susie!" as they are to go, "Daniel is new! Daniel! Daniel! Daniel!"
OR, people simply look at the leading numbers on the first page and decide to jump on the bandwagon, because honestly at this point this thread has become tl;dr, probably even moreso to an RLK.
Uh huh, people took the time to change their vote for no other reason than so they would be voting with what they thought would be the winning side? It couldn't be the intelligent debate and excellent reasons to vote for Daniel brought forth? That's the story you're sticking with? That people are too stupid to vote for themselves?
Sure it does. What other logical possibility could it be? There are more RLK's than seasoned players.
I'm curious about the ratio of seasoned players to RLKs that actively participate on the boards, and March Madness in particular, but we have at least 50 active, non-RLK members online on any given week, and I'm willing to be that a good percentage of them vote in the March Madness polls. I think that blaming RLKs that Daniel is winning can easily translate to, "I'm angry my side isn't winning." Daniel is a good hero, and just because you don't see that, it doesn't mean RLKs are voting to sabotage the poll because he's the shiny new card. Be realistic.
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No, I'm really not. RLKs are just as likely to go, "Susie won last year! Susie! Susie! Susie!" as they are to go, "Daniel is new! Daniel! Daniel! Daniel!"
Lulz no. RLK's care less about what has happened in the past. Chances are they weren't even here during last March Madness. RLK's are much more likely to be hyped about a brand new card, especially a just released National promo.
Uh huh, people took the time to change their vote for no other reason than so they would be voting with what they thought would be the winning side? It couldn't be the intelligent debate and excellent reasons to vote for Daniel brought forth? That's the story you're sticking with? That people are too stupid to vote for themselves?
Straw man argument much? I never said voters are not being swayed by some of the arguments presented here. I submitted a very likely theory as to why RLK's are voting for Daniel.
On a side note, seeing numbers fluctuate (and on three seperate occasions, as unlikely as that may be) also does not necessarily equate to people changing sides.
I'm curious about the ratio of seasoned players to RLKs that actively participate on the boards, and March Madness in particular, but we have at least 50 active, non-RLK members online on any given week, and I'm willing to be that a good percentage of them vote in the March Madness polls.
For every 50 seasoned players there are over 9000 RLK's.
I think that blaming RLKs that Daniel is winning can easily translate to, "I'm angry my side isn't winning."
What makes this statement ironic is you don't know my side.
Daniel is a good hero, and just because you don't see that, it doesn't mean RLKs are voting to sabotage the poll because he's the shiny new card. Be realistic.
Daniel is a good hero, but not great. And yeah, RLK's will usually always favor the shiny new chase card. Once his sugarcoated new car smell wears off after next Nationals, he'll be nothing more than an inferior coaster for my Raspberry Iced Tea at Perkins.
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Lulz no. RLK's care less about what has happened in the past. Chances are they weren't even here during last March Madness. RLK's are much more likely to be hyped about a brand new card, especially a just released National promo.
Perhaps, perhaps not.
Straw man argument much? I never said voters are not being swayed by some of the arguments presented here. I submitted a very likely theory as to why RLK's are voting for Daniel.
Suggesting that they're voting for whoever has more votes at point in time is suggesting that they're too stupid to vote for themselves.
On a side note, seeing numbers fluctuate (and on three seperate occasions, as unlikely as that may be) also does not necessarily equate to people changing sides.
Actually seeing numbers go down on one side and seeing numbers go up on the other does equate to switching sides. That's the very definition of switching sides. It was right around the end of page 1 and throughout page 2 that I actually saw the votes shift.
For every 50 seasoned players there are over 9000 RLK's.
Seems legit.
What makes this statement ironic is you don't know my side.
Chalking up Daniel winning to RLKs is a pretty good indicator that you think Susie should win. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's the overwhelming vibe I've gotten from you.
Daniel is a good hero, and just because you don't see that, it doesn't mean RLKs are voting to sabotage the poll because he's the shiny new card. Be realistic.
Daniel is a good hero, but not great. And yeah, RLK's will usually always favor the shiny new chase card. Once his sugarcoated new car smell wears off after next Nationals, he'll be nothing more than an inferior coaster for my Raspberry Iced Tea at Perkins.
Daniel is a great hero. At what did negating evil protect forts, evil characters, NT enhancements (very few of which Daniel can use effectively anyway), AND being part of what can be at least a four man banding chain, AND allowing you to look at your opponent's hand, or otherwise band in a 10/10 or 12/8 Angel NOT constitute as "great"? And did I mention that all of that is CBN? Daniel is a great hero, he just doesn't fall into any spectacular themes right now. If prophets get some more help (there's a ton of material to justify it) or a Daniel theme gets help (a ton of material to justify it), Daniel could become a part of a very, very viable theme, one way or another.
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Suggesting that they're voting for whoever has more votes at point in time is suggesting that they're too stupid to vote for themselves.
Not sure if trolling or actually not seeing the point. RLKs are followers by nature. Pretty much anyone older than them is someone they look up to in a sense and try to emulate. One of those ways is by voting the way they vote. Of course it doesn't have to be someone older either. Go in to any elementary-middle school class room and take a vote on something. When you ask people to raise their hands, watch their faces and see how many of them either raise or lower their hands after the initial burst goes up. Don't pretend this doesn't happen, it doesn't make them stupid it makes them easily influenced. That's why tobacco companies can't have add campaigns that target kids anymore, they're easily impressionable. They see what the crowd is doing and they want to fit in. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.
Seems legit.
So now because you're arguing this is the one time you're going to take the over 9000 meme as a literal indication of the number? Come on man you know he was using a hyperbole, you know it's a meme, don't sink to that.
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Perhaps, perhaps not.
Thats just how it is and will more than likely always be. I'm not just quoting experience from this game, but from other CCG's as well. RLK's flock to the shiny new chase card, even if it blows chunks.
Suggesting that they're voting for whoever has more votes at point in time is suggesting that they're too stupid to vote for themselves.
So I suppose the very definition of an RLK is extremely condescending, as everything they do they tend to do out of naivety and ignorance. :/
Actually seeing numbers go down on one side and seeing numbers go up on the other does equate to switching sides. That's the very definition of switching sides.
So I suppose if 1 person votes for Daniel and another completely different person removes their vote for Susanna that constitutes 'switching sides', eh?
Chalking up Daniel winning to RLKs is a pretty good indicator that you think Susie should win. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's the overwhelming vibe I've gotten from you.
So I wonder what that makes me if I voted for Daniel then.
Daniel is a great hero. At what did negating evil protect forts
Because people use those in Type 1.
evil characters
FBTN still does it better.
NT enhancements
The best white enhancements are NT. Does nothing to the #1 used evil enhancement in the Type 1 meta.
AND being part of what can be at least a four man banding chain
Inferior if you dont +Gajillion with it or arent FBTNB.
AND allowing you to look at your opponent's hand
Not that great if your name doesnt start with 'Damsel' and end with 'Divination'.
or otherwise band in a 10/10 or 12/8 Angel
Because passing initiative is awesome in this meta.
NOT constitute as "great"?
See above.
And did I mention that all of that is CBN?
You can slap CBN on Timothy, but does that make him great?
Daniel is a great hero, he just doesn't fall into any spectacular themes right now. If prophets get some more help (there's a ton of material to justify it) or a Daniel theme gets help (a ton of material to justify it), Daniel could become a part of a very, very viable theme, one way or another.
The problem with Daniel is he has a ton of good things going on with his card, but is not specialized at doing anything great. He does not specialize at doing at least one thing exceptionally well, which relegates him to a mediocre jack of all trades within his theme. The only silver lining to him is he is still able to poop all over the meta defense, but there are heros that still do that marginally better.
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For no other reason other than that I'm bored....I want everyone to know that I voted for Susanna.
2 Reasons:
1. I don't think it is right to set a multi-colored hero in a single colored brigade. Susanna is the better WHITE hero...Daniel is the better multi-colored hero. (Likely better hero too). People are seeing his power of greenness, likely voting for that, in a WHITE only match up.
2. I voted Susanna just to see how close it is...I'm really not participating this year, but this thread got the better of my curiosity.
3. I want to sway RLK votes because I am OLD. RLKs who have read this far...I am old, somewhat smart, so follow me in choosing a truly WHITE hero.
5. You just noticed that I provided more than 2 reasons.
6. You just noticed that I skipped #4.
7. I agree with MKCs assertions that newness is likely winning the day more than any laid out argument for Daniel.
9. I am tempted to switch my vote, just so you guys think more RLKs are swayed (RLKs keep your votes on Susanna though I switched mine despite my older and smarter demeaner.)
10 My "side" is "winning" in the poll that really counts.
11. Yes, I skipped 8 too...It's my way of making up for leap year...by taking out 4s (and multiples thereof). Yes, you guess it...I went with 12 reasons why I rock at sleeping. ;)
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Not sure if trolling or actually not seeing the point. RLKs are followers by nature. Pretty much anyone older than them is someone they look up to in a sense and try to emulate. One of those ways is by voting the way they vote. Of course it doesn't have to be someone older either. Go in to any elementary-middle school class room and take a vote on something. When you ask people to raise their hands, watch their faces and see how many of them either raise or lower their hands after the initial burst goes up. Don't pretend this doesn't happen, it doesn't make them stupid it makes them easily influenced. That's why tobacco companies can't have add campaigns that target kids anymore, they're easily impressionable. They see what the crowd is doing and they want to fit in. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.
I work as a camp counselor and don't need lectured on child and early adolescent psychology. Both of those age groups are easily influenced, yes, but if they actually care enough about something to undo their own vote, more likely than not, they've become entrenched in their own viewpoint - for whatever reason - and are not going to be inclined to change it. On the other hand, if they didn't care enough about their viewpoint to begin with, they're not going to care enough to change it either.
So now because you're arguing this is the one time you're going to take the over 9000 meme as a literal indication of the number? Come on man you know he was using a hyperbole, you know it's a meme, don't sink to that.
I was just wondering something aloud and he made a joke, which I acknowledged. No need to get all bent out of shape about it.
So I suppose if 1 person votes for Daniel and another completely different person removes their vote for Susanna that constitutes 'switching sides', eh?
First off, why would someone remove their vote for a hero and not vote for the other one? Second, If a person does remove a vote without voting for the other hero, they still did it knowing that that would be one less vote for the hero they had originally voted for, which is still sides since it's essentially a point for that other hero.
So I wonder what that makes me if I voted for Daniel then.
Then I'm confused why you seem to be so avidly against him.
Because people use those in Type 1.
You're not familiar with the online meta, but yes, people do use evil forts, especially right now when people are trying to come up with different defenses that will be effective, not to mention good ol' Gates of Samaria. They don't get used often, but they do get used, and Daniel inadvertently tackles that situation when it comes along.
FBTN still does it better.
We're not talking about whether FBTN or Daniel is better, it's whether Susie or Daniel is better.
The best white enhancements are NT. Does nothing to the #1 used evil enhancement in the Type 1 meta.
There aren't many evil NT enhancements to begin with, so it's not much of a defensible point. Wrath of Satan at least. Meh.
Inferior if you dont +Gajillion with it or arent FBTNB.
It's still better than any banding options Susie has to offer.
Not that great if your name doesnt start with 'Damsel' and end with 'Divination'.
Looking at your opponent's hand while negating their evil characters isn't great? Now you're just trolling.
Because passing initiative is awesome in this meta.
How many enhancements really take out a five character banding chain these days?
You can slap CBN on Timothy, but does that make him great?
No, but Timothy doesn't have a plethora of solid abilities.
The problem with Daniel is he has a ton of good things going on with his card, but is not specialized at doing anything great. He does not specialize at doing at least one thing exceptionally well, which relegates him to a mediocre jack of all trades within his theme. The only silver lining to him is he is still able to poop all over the meta defense, but there are heros that still do that marginally better.
As far as I know, there's no three card combination beyond Hidden Treasures, Search, and Daniel, that lets you view your opponent's hand, then pull out the exact card you need to deal with that scenario.
Greeson, I laughed at your post.
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First off, why would someone remove their vote for a hero and not vote for the other one?
I wouldn't know, I'm not here to question a persons motivation in this area, but to entertain the possibilities.
Second, If a person does remove a vote without voting for the other hero, they still did it knowing that that would be one less vote for the hero they had originally voted for, which is still sides since it's essentially a point for that other hero.
Taking a vote away and deciding to sit on the fence is not switching sides.
Then I'm confused why you seem to be so avidly against him.
I'm confused why you avidly insist I'm against him in the first place. I'm not necessarily taking sides during this discussion. I'm just calling an ace an ace.
You're not familiar with the online meta, but yes, people do use evil forts, especially right now when people are trying to come up with different defenses that will be effective, not to mention good ol' Gates of Samaria. They don't get used often, but they do get used, and Daniel inadvertently tackles that situation when it comes along.
When I hear Type 1 meta defense, I know what it is. And it does not involve forts. If forts do not get used often, then that means Daniels fortress-negating ability does not get used often. So he stops a King Omri block during battle. Gates still wrecks him outside of battle.
We're not talking about whether FBTN or Daniel is better, it's whether Susie or Daniel is better.
We're talking about Daniels abilities and how he stacks up to the precedent. How else can you possibly judge a character?
There aren't many evil NT enhancements to begin with, so it's not much of a defensible point. Wrath of Satan at least. Meh.
Exactly, so not only does this do absolutely zero against the meta defense, but hurts yourself in the end.
It's still better than any banding options Susie has to offer.
The difference is Susie excels at what she does. Daniels banding options are sub-par.
Looking at your opponent's hand while negating their evil characters isn't great? Now you're just trolling.
Not nearly as good as looking defensively.
How many enhancements really take out a five character banding chain these days?
I thought my reply was in reply to Daniel banding to a 10/10 or 12/8. In regards to what takes out 5+, there are quite a few.
No, but Timothy doesn't have a plethora of solid abilities.
Of course not, the analogy being what use is the CBN if half the abilities aren't getting used half the time or aren't exactly a game changer.
As far as I know, there's no three card combination beyond Hidden Treasures, Search, and Daniel, that lets you view your opponent's hand, then pull out the exact card you need to deal with that scenario.
Its a good combo. But its a combo that works only one time in a typical T1 game and requires 3 pieces. Susie wins for consistency soley because she is one of the best tutors on legs in the game.