Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: Gabe on February 01, 2009, 11:44:50 PM
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Sometimes people feel inclined to complain about strategies and deck types that they feel are unfair or aren't fun to play against. If you've been around very long, you've heard it. I believe that the inclination to complain comes from a lack of understanding of their fellow player. What one player values in a game isn't always the same thing that another player values.
This list tries to profile CCG players into four basic categories according to what they enjoy most about a game. Most players probably fit into more than one category and some might fit into a category not mentioned here. I think that if you're honest with yourself you have a strong tendency towards one specific profile. I didn't come up with these, they were created by people who've studied CCG players in depth for the purpose of marketing other games (profile names have been changed be appropriate for Redemption).
My hope in presenting it here is that people will stop to think about their fellow player instead of starting a campaign to change an aspect of the game that doesn't fit their preferred play style. What you dislike might be the very thing that someone else enjoys.
Abraham - Abraham primarily plays to have a good time. He plays with cards that make him happy, create cool moments, and cause him to have fun. Winning and losing isn't really the point even though he feels that winning is fun. Abraham might enjoy playing with cards like Goliath, or the Caleb & Joshua band, just because they're fun. Abraham might primarily value the social interaction with their friends. Abraham might come up with his own variant(s) of the game and/or wish ban cards that they feel take away from the fun of the game. Abraham may enjoy trying something new all the time, like playing a new brigade and civilization regularly. However you like to go about it, the primary reason you play is to have fun.
Isaac - Isaac primarily plays to express something. He might play to show people how creative, clever or offbeat he is. Deck building is one of the primary things Isaac enjoys about Redemption. He may try to come up with combos that nobody else had thought of or build decks that will impress everyone when they see it. Isaac might enjoy the challenge of coming up with a deck type that nobody has ever thought of or succeeded with before. He might simply enjoy using cards that nobody else expects. Isaac might try to prove that cards that everyone believes to be worthless actually have some value (like finding a good use for Casting Lots). However he goes about it, Isaac has something to prove to everyone about himself.
Jacob - Jacob primarily plays to prove something, usually how good he is. He values winning most, because the game is an opportunity to show what he's capable of. Jacob is often one of the first to realize which new cards are the best or to create the next dominant deck type. He may spend a lot of time understanding the intricacies of the game. Jacob may not always come up with the next dominant deck but he's willing to copy or tweak a version from another player or the internet. He might simply add cards to his deck based on what he expects a certain opponent to be using (like adding Journey to Egypt when you think you're opponent will be playing Egyptians). Jacob might try to perfect his own game play because he believes that victory comes from a flawless performance. For Jacob, games are a way to test himself and he enjoys measuring his performance.
Joseph * - Joseph primarily plays for the spiritual value of Redemption. He values the scripture tied to every card. Joseph wants to use Redemption as an opportunity to teach others about the Bible. He learns more about the scriptures through the game. For Joseph, Redemption is an outreach tool and a way to encourage others with spiritually healthy entertainment.
*Joseph didn't come from the secular psychological profile I used.
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You stole this from magic. We actually already use the "secular" names for redemption players so you're a bit late.
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Casting lots is broken Issac wouldn't touch it. Intresting, Names came into my head for each of those.
Stole is such a mean word, should we say...liberated?
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You stole this from magic. We actually already use the "secular" names for redemption players so you're a bit late.
I didn't come up with these, they were created by people who've studied CCG players in depth for the purpose of marketing other games (profile names have been changed be appropriate for Redemption).
You should read before you post.
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Crud....I'm the deceiving twin! A deceiver! I mean, come on! But how can I deny it? I'm spot on: Jacob. Please, do not think ill of me!
@ Gabe, can you PM me the real names? I'm curious to what it is.....something like snake or jerk....or something that will embarrass me further, but I have to know!
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I don't remember the names being inappropriate.
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soul seeker, I'll do better than that. I'll pm you a link to an article written on the subject. The real names aren't anything embarrassing though. I only changed them to be more appropriate to the Bible based game we all love.
If it makes you feel any better I fit most closely with Jacob too. ;)
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Yeah, but most Christians don't put a lot of value on "Jacob."
No lie, at my last church, my competitive spirit was brought up every time during job performance critique time. I have worked on it through the years, but I don't know how to play without giving it 100%. I think throwing a game is patronizing. It's a balance I've tried to work at, but sometimes you can't please people. Seems like I'm always stuck playing Abrahams with a "Jacob" mentality.
Gabe, there is one thing, I probably don't do enough which you might have noticed in our games. I don't study or memorize the REG like I should. I know it would make me better, but I don't want to invest that much time. It is my only non-Jacob quality. Whereas, I'm impressed that you always find the little things the REG needs to update. That reason, not your wins, is why I think you are a better player than me. I think that fact is just manifested in your wins.
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Growing up playing with Pol (which meant I never really ever won a game against him for like, a decade) turned me into an Issac.
Wouldn't the next logical progression be Judah rather than Joseph?
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thanks for the article Gabe! It was a great read even though I don't agree with the game. I found my major type, and then I found out what my minor type was too. Actually, I'm a mix of two minors but I do lean towards one then the other.
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This list tries to profile CCG players into three basic categories according to what they enjoy most about a game.
I think my lone wolf experience turned me into an Issac/Abe Hybrid, I love to just play to have fun (Anb abuse) but at the same time do try to express things (Heroless).
I need more david greens to be in people's decks.
SS could you send me the article as well?
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I'm Johnny/Spike.
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Hey,
Gabe, did you summarize these at all or just copy/paste them and change the names?
I find it interesting that both Isaac and Jacob are largely about trying to prove something, while the other two (Abraham and Joseph) are the non-competitive - it's not all that important who wins - types. Are there no competitive players that don't have something to prove? And what happens to an Isaac or Jacob when they prove what they want to prove?
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Ah I found my ones in the article.
Johnny/offbeat designer/Uber johnny. (shocker eh?) I love the word UBER.
So I guess I'd be Johnny
If anyone who has read the article thinks differently I'd love to discuss it. Or heck discuss theirs even!
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Gabe, did you summarize these at all or just copy/paste them and change the names?
I just summarized the three main profiles. There have been a few articles writen on this topic. They actually break down each profile into sub profiles but not all those apply to our game.
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I'm Jacob/Isaac
but mostly Jacob
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The redemption player is but a rope between beast and Jacob...
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haman doesn't use haman's plot cause he gets bored from it
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Abraham - Abraham primarily plays to have a good time. He plays with cards that make him happy, create cool moments, and cause him to have fun. Winning and losing isn't really the point even though he feels that winning is fun. Abraham might enjoy playing with cards like Goliath, or the Caleb & Joshua band, just because they're fun. Abraham might primarily value the social interaction with their friends. Abraham might come up with his own variant(s) of the game and/or wish ban cards that they feel take away from the fun of the game. Abraham may enjoy trying something new all the time, like playing a new brigade and civilization regularly. However you like to go about it, the primary reason you play is to have fun.
Jacob - Jacob primarily plays to prove something, usually how good he is. He values winning most, because the game is an opportunity to show what he's capable of. Jacob is often one of the first to realize which new cards are the best or to create the next dominant deck type. He may spend a lot of time understanding the intricacies of the game. Jacob may not always come up with the next dominant deck but he's willing to copy or tweak a version from another player or the internet. He might simply add cards to his deck based on what he expects a certain opponent to be using (like adding Journey to Egypt when you think you're opponent will be playing Egyptians). Jacob might try to perfect his own game play because he believes that victory comes from a flawless performance. For Jacob, games are a way to test himself and he enjoys measuring his performance.
Joseph * - Joseph primarily plays for the spiritual value of Redemption. He values the scripture tied to every card. Joseph wants to use Redemption as an opportunity to teach others about the Bible. He learns more about the scriptures through the game. For Joseph, Redemption is an outreach tool and a way to encourage others with spiritually healthy entertainment.
I guess I'm a Joseph since it was the only one that I wouldn't cross out anything when describing myself. However, I have a lot of Abraham and Jacob as well. I was surprised that absolutely none of Issac resonated with me though.
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I'mjacob as is Rawr with his banding ;)
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A variation on this topic was discussed partially in this thread: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12651.0
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Issac/Jacob. They seem to coincide with one another, in a way.
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I think I'm an Abraham when actually playing the game, but I'm an Isaac when building my decks.
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Hey,
A variation on this topic was discussed partially in this thread: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12651.0
I immediately thought of that thread too when I read the article. Although this seems to be more about why a player comes to the game and how they approach the game whereas the other was more about how they play once the game has started.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Hey,
A variation on this topic was discussed partially in this thread: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12651.0
I immediately thought of that thread too when I read the article. Although this seems to be more about why a player comes to the game and how they approach the game whereas the other was more about how they play once the game has started.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Same here. I like how the 2 articles compliment each other. You get some insight into the "Why" players do what they do. It would be interesting to see if these 2 articles combined with a personality test would reveal any drastic deviation into which category players would autofit with minor subsets. Meaning, could a Type A personality be predisposed to say "Jacob" and so on. I wonder if this could be done with a high success rate in predictability?
Godspeed,
Mike
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Ah I found my ones in the article.
Johnny/offbeat designer/Uber johnny. (shocker eh?) I love the word UBER.
Also Timmy/social/adrenaline (anb is insane fun.)
So I guess I'd be Johnny/Timmy
If anyone who has read the article thinks differently I'd love to discuss it. Or heck discuss theirs even!
Sorry, RR, I don't see a lot of Timmy in you. Even though, I don't know you as well as others. When I was reading Johnny....I thought of you then I read "uber Johnny" and that completely confirmed it. I think what you're calling Timmy is your non-competitive not-trying-to-prove-something Johnny form.
After you and Gabe read the article, you'll understand this: I feel I'm a Spike Tuner with a bit of Nuts&Bolts in me. (which is why I complain about myself after games & sometimes during...the Nuts&Bolts part is kicking itself.) So, Jacob resonates with me through and through. I like the Joseph aspects, but that is not why I personally play the game...that little part is why I expand and "market" the game.
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Probably so. I agree I'll edit myself ;)