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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: Sadness on February 21, 2018, 07:26:02 PM

Title: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: Sadness on February 21, 2018, 07:26:02 PM
Card retirement:  which ones or set should be retired

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: YourMathTeacher on February 21, 2018, 07:43:11 PM
So we're starting the discussion over again?  :scratch:
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 07:48:19 PM
Quote from: YourMathTeacher on February 21, 2018, 07:43:11 PM
So we're starting the discussion over again?  :scratch:

Someone played A New Beginning... :o
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: YourMathTeacher on February 21, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 07:48:19 PM
Quote from: YourMathTeacher on February 21, 2018, 07:43:11 PM
So we're starting the discussion over again?  :scratch:

Someone played A New Beginning... :o

Well then this is clearly your fault for not banning ANB.....  :o
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: Gabe on February 21, 2018, 08:42:56 PM
But we errata’d it! ...twice!  ::)
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: Kevinthedude on February 21, 2018, 09:00:47 PM
Quote from: Gabe on February 21, 2018, 08:42:56 PM
But we errata’d it! ...twice!  ::)

Forget to specify that it does not affect forum threads :P
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 09:03:33 PM
Third time's the charm!  ;D
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: ChristianSoldier on February 21, 2018, 09:17:03 PM
The way I see it is banning is a useful short term solution. Are there a few cards that are drastically warping the meta? Maybe banning them is a good idea.

Set Rotation and Card Retirement are both useful tools to keep a game interesting in long term. Set rotation can also be used to lower the overall power level of the game.

In talking about Redemption specifically:
1) Redemption has had very slow release schedule, usually one set a year, and ever since FooF they've been pretty small (>150 cards if I'm remembering correctly), so the issues that set rotation solves have been a lot slower to build.
2) You can still buy cards from most sets from Cactus (either on their own or from Tins/Gift sets) so we have you consider the economic effect of retiring sets that Cactus is still trying to sell.
3) Right now the designers/playtesters have to consider how the old cards will affect new cards they create, set rotation (or even a Legacy/Modern split) could make that process easier.
4) The very process that Redemption has been using to deal with problem cards has often led to unexpected effects that often had to be dealt with, often when banning, or limiting cards would have been more effective with less disruption to the game. However, I will say that the designers have gotten very creative in dealing with problems.
5) There is a lot of baggage in Redemption's history, and it would probably be easier on the playtesters if at least some of it was cleared away.
6) One of the problems in customizable games that have been around for a long time is that there are just so many options, (I believe one of the stated problems with CoL is that there are several ways to search her out that there's a good chance to get one in your opening hand), set rotation could start getting rid of various situations where it's better to use the new one and the old one.
7) It also has the benefit for new players not needing to dig up old cards that are hard to find. I remember when I started playing, Warrior was already sold out and I couldn't easily get some of the powerful cards from there, and while I'm not sure if that's a problem anymore as Redemption hasn't really done a toned down versions of cards since then, but it's still something to be considered.

If I were to be proposing set rotation, I'd probably start by rotating out everything up through Warriors for sure, as well as the first, second and third edition starter decks, and maybe Apostles and Patriarchs as well. I would probably want to keep Kings around until there is a replacement for Hezekiah's Signet Ring, and keep Priests around until replacements for the Priests protect forts are out or coming out soon.
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: The Schaefer on February 21, 2018, 09:17:30 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 09:03:33 PM
Third time's the charm!  ;D
Could we really survive another ANB errata though? Maybe ANB needs to be added to the list of cards to appear in a spoof set.
Title: Re: Set rotation,card bans and card retirement
Post by: Gabe on February 21, 2018, 11:47:07 PM
Quote from: The Schaefer on February 21, 2018, 09:17:30 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 09:03:33 PM
Third time's the charm!  ;D
Could we really survive another ANB errata though? Maybe ANB needs to be added to the list of cards to appear in a spoof set.

ANB's new errata...

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: Eragon5 on February 22, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: Gabe on February 21, 2018, 11:47:07 PM
Quote from: The Schaefer on February 21, 2018, 09:17:30 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 09:03:33 PM
Third time's the charm!  ;D
Could we really survive another ANB errata though? Maybe ANB needs to be added to the list of cards to appear in a spoof set.

ANB's new errata...

Spoiler (hover to show)
Should also put in, call over a judge to make sure you understand how it works XD
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: JonathanW on February 22, 2018, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: Eragon5 on February 22, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: Gabe on February 21, 2018, 11:47:07 PM
Quote from: The Schaefer on February 21, 2018, 09:17:30 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 09:03:33 PM
Third time's the charm!  ;D
Could we really survive another ANB errata though? Maybe ANB needs to be added to the list of cards to appear in a spoof set.

ANB's new errata...

Spoiler (hover to show)
Should also put in, call over a judge to make sure you understand how it works XD

Heck, just call over the Judge to sit at your table for the next 5 minutes....
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: Gabe on February 22, 2018, 11:54:15 AM
Don't forget to ask the judge what to do when one of the players at your MP table shuffles his discard pile into his deck...
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on February 22, 2018, 12:03:13 PM
ANB Final Errata:  We give up. You know what the card is supposed to do, so just do that.
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: The Guardian on February 22, 2018, 12:05:19 PM
Might as well errata it to make it a dominant while we're at it.  :o
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: Xonathan on February 22, 2018, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 22, 2018, 12:05:19 PM
Might as well errata it to make it a dominant while we're at it.  :o

Spoiler for the next set
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: The Guardian on February 22, 2018, 12:58:38 PM
Quote from: Xonathan on February 22, 2018, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 22, 2018, 12:05:19 PM
Might as well errata it to make it a dominant while we're at it.  :o

Spoiler for the next set

You wish  ;D

Edit* Okay, wish granted.  8)
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: Xonathan on February 22, 2018, 01:11:23 PM
I think nobody wishes that
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: Gabe on February 22, 2018, 01:13:03 PM
ANB Dominant FTW! You heard it here first folks! 8)
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: YourMathTeacher on February 22, 2018, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: Xonathan on February 22, 2018, 01:11:23 PM
I think nobody wishes that

STAMP would...  ;)
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: The Schaefer on February 22, 2018, 02:51:33 PM
I wouldn't say it's likely that ANB would get printed as a dominant but why not right? That's how the best cards are made.  :laugh:
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: h20tor on February 22, 2018, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: Gabe on February 22, 2018, 01:13:03 PM
ANB Dominant FTW! You heard it here first folks! 8)

You could make it like Haman's Plot.

"Reset all tournament standings and pairings. The Tournament starts over. Tear this card into at least 100 pieces or you are disqualified and receive 0 Lost Souls for the duration of the Current Redemption Tournament Season."

Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: Ironisaac on February 22, 2018, 04:21:27 PM
Quote from: h20tor on February 22, 2018, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: Gabe on February 22, 2018, 01:13:03 PM
ANB Dominant FTW! You heard it here first folks! 8)

You could make it like Haman's Plot.

"Reset all tournament standings and pairings. The Tournament starts over. Tear this card into at least 100 pieces or you are disqualified and receive 0 Lost Souls for the duration of the Current Redemption Tournament Season."

It's not allowed in any decks though. only judges get them, and they can throw them down on a table at any time.
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on February 22, 2018, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 22, 2018, 12:05:19 PM
Might as well errata it to make it a dominant while we're at it.  :o
ANB Dominant Errata: Give selected Warrior-class Red-brigade Hero in battle +2 toughness.
Title: Re: card retirement...(why certain cards should be retired)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on February 22, 2018, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 22, 2018, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on February 22, 2018, 12:05:19 PM
Might as well errata it to make it a dominant while we're at it.  :o
ANB Dominant Errata: Give selected Warrior-class Red-brigade Hero in battle +2 toughness.

Seems a bit OP with TSC  :angel:
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