Author Topic: Self-searching (Read 5459 times)

stefferweffer · « **on:** March 17, 2009, 01:27:10 PM »

Hello all,

Is there a way to search my deck for Self, or any other evil character, but NOT to add them to the battle? If they were added to the battle they might die, and sometimes cards like Self you just want "in play" for other reasons (like against Garden Tomb). I know that Amalekite's Slave and Unknown Nation can bring certain evil characters into battle, but I was unsure if there are enhancements or artifacts that allow you to search for an evil character and just put in your hand or in play. Thanks.

Gabe · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:39:26 PM »

The only cards that I can think of that search for Self are False Peace and Search.

FYI - At face value Self is not human so Unknown Nation and Amalekite's Slave cannot search for Self.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:43:25 PM »

I thought there was something on Self that said genderless human?

thestrongangel · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:46:21 PM »

genderless non-generic nothing not-prophet non-evil non-good non-non-non

Gabe · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:52:02 PM »

The card Self doesn't have the identifier "human". When I look up Self in the REG I see that Mike has accidently listed "human" as one of Self's identifiers.

At face value Self is similar to Doubt in the sense that it's genderless, non-human, non-demon. Once you put Self in play it copies a hero. If that hero is human then Self becomes human. If that hero is an angel then Self becomes a demon (for Redemption purposes there are no evil angels).

stefferweffer · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:52:27 PM »

Here's why I said that. In searching for "Self" in other threads (In Rulings), I found this thread posted by a "tournament host"?

"Does Self become warrior-class if copying a warrior-class hero?

Self
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: * / * • Class: None • Special Ability: Abilities (*/*) match the abilities of one of opponent’s Heroes in play. If that Hero leaves the field of play, abilities become 0/0. • Identifiers: Generic NT Human, (gender, testament, and other identifiers match selected Hero) • Verse: Colossians 3:9"

I assumed he was copying and pasting from some database of cards that said "Generic NT Human". Sorry for the confusion.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:01:38 PM »

And to make sure I use these cards right, I better make sure I understand Self right (and Kingdoms of the World). I thought Self's ability only activates if he goes into battle. Is that wrong? In other words do you have to have a hero to copy to simply put it into play?

Can you not place an EC like Self directly into Kingdoms of the World from hand? Regardless of how you place him there, does he have to be a "copy" of one of opponent's heroes? If that hero dies, and Self is in KOTW, will Self die also because he has become 0/0?

I'm just trying out this Self/KOTW idea I was given to defend against Garden Tomb, and I need to make sure that I am doing it right. I have not used either card very much at all.

Thanks.

Gabe · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:15:25 PM »

It sounds like your starting to understand how Self works. It's a rather confusing card. I think that Self has caused more ruling questions than any other since it was released.

I think a lot of the confusion comes because cards with a */* ability have an explanation of the */* printed over the picture but it's not a special ability. See also Silly Women and Angel with the Secret Name.

The text on Self is an explanation of it's copy ability and the */* ability. Self copies the hero one time - immediately when it's put into play. There is no ability to activate so when Self enters battle so you don't choose a new character to copy. If the copied Hero leaves play (even if it's set aside) Self will immediately become 0/0 and be discarded (unless it happens during battle), even if Self is in KotW.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:27:26 PM »

If the copied hero is captured, are they still "in play" for purposes of Self?

Gabe · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:44:21 PM »

Yes, captured characters are placed in the Land of Bondage (under normal circumstances) which is in play.

Now you've got me wondering if controlling Self and the hero it copies would cause you to have a duplicate if the hero was unique... hmmm. I told you Self caused all kinda of ruling questions.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:48:17 PM »

And can Self be converted somehow into a Multi-colored hero, still a copy of the original hero?

Gabe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:50:41 PM »

Saul/Paul is the only card in Redemption that would convert from evil character to a multi color hero. Any means that you would use to convert Self would make him a single color hero.

The Schaef · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2009, 12:50:11 PM »

FWIW, cards that say you "may search or X and add it to battle" has two components:
- may search for X
- may add X to battle

So while there may not be an easy way to search for Self, keep in mind for other cards that you DO have the option to search but just keep it in your hand instead.

STAMP · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2009, 01:26:25 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on March 17, 2009, 03:48:17 PM

And can Self be converted somehow into a Multi-colored hero, still a copy of the original hero?

Quote from: BrianGabe on March 17, 2009, 03:50:41 PM

Saul/Paul is the only card in Redemption that would convert from evil character to a multi color hero. Any means that you would use to convert Self would make him a single color hero.

Another question would be, "Does Paul's Self convert to multi-color?"

Colin Michael · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2009, 01:38:19 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on March 17, 2009, 01:52:02 PM

If that hero is an angel then Self becomes a demon (for Redemption purposes there are no evil angels).

This is unfortunate that we don't have a distinction between demons and fallen angels (but probably for the best).

crustpope · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2009, 01:48:47 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on March 17, 2009, 02:44:21 PM

Now you've got me wondering if controlling Self and the hero it copies would cause you to have a duplicate if the hero was unique... hmmm. I told you Self caused all kinda of ruling questions.

I would say no, because self is an evil copy of the hero. Can y ou not have an evil king saul and a good kin saul in your territory at the same time? different art, different abilites, different card, even if they are copying the same person IMO.

Gabe · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2009, 01:59:52 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on March 24, 2009, 01:48:47 PM

Can y ou not have an evil king saul and a good kin saul in your territory at the same time?

You cannot have both in your territory at the same time because it's the same unique character. This is one reason why conversion is so good in T2. If you convert my EC to a Hero (or the other way around) I can't put any other copies I draw into play until I can find a way to get rid of the converted character.

Quote from: STAMP on March 24, 2009, 01:26:25 PM

Another question would be, "Does Paul's Self convert to multi-color?"

Since Self doesn't copy special abilities (and that ability is on Saul, not Paul) I don't think he would.

crustpope · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:04:40 PM »

King Saul

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 8 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: May band to Abner or Michal (not both). • Identifiers: OT Male Human, King (Israel), Royalty, Prophet, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Samuel 15:26 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Uncommon) • Background

Isnt there a purple brigade hero named king saul too? can you not have both of these characters in play in your territory one as a brown EC and the other as a Purple hero? I see self and its copy like this.

Gabe · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:19:47 PM »

Yes there is a purple hero named King Saul also.

The second question was answered in the post directly before yours.

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Author Topic: Self-searching (Read 5459 times)

thestrongangel

The Schaef