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Redemption Game Health Discussion and Solutions
Hymn:
Good evening,
Over the course of several months I have been making an effort within the community to raise awareness on the state of Redemption. One of the key talking points has been a conversation of the current health of Redemption. Some believe the game to be in a good state with the current meta while others (including myself) see areas the game could benefit for some changes. Concerns have been raised over the possibility of changes to the game making it difficult to adapt to the new environment. I have made it my goal (among other goals) to find a solution that both better the game for new and existing players while not changing the game fundamentally or taking away from the heart of what Redemption stands for. Many solutions have been brought forward such as alternative formats, removal of phases, limiting card types or activations, and bans or errata's. Trying to find an elegant solution to these issue is difficult but I believe it can be achieved as a community. The two most popular changes I have seen proposed are banning a specific set of cards and the implementation of the exert mechanic. My favorite so far as I have shared with the community on the Threshing Floor podcast was the Schaefer Solution.
The Schaefer Solution is a gameplay change proposed by the elder Joseph Schaefer while we were discussing the state of Redemption. It entails restricting players to only being able to play as many Territory Class (TC) cards outside of battle equal to the current round. This solution curves the current lack of resources and interaction Redemption has suffered from since the increase of power and density of TC effects. By limiting the number of TC cards that can be played in a turn equal to the current round, a pseudo resource curve is established. This gives players incentive to play with different styles throughout the course of the game. Those who prefer speed still retain the ability to be aggressive in the early game but are restricted by the turn counter and will be punished for reckless play in the Discard phase if they bloat their hand too much. Midrange and control players now have more time to establish their strategy and are no longer absorbed into the speed playstyles as lockdown pieces and counters tact onto the end of a massive chain of card advantage with powerful hand control effects. Players with this solution now must choose more carefully how they want to build their deck strategically.
This is just one of many possible solutions that must be tested and discussed with the community further to understand it's validity as a real addition to the game. It has been proposed that all cards (besides dominants and lost souls) should be restricted to X= the current round however this is a more extreme variation that would require testing. Concerns were raised about this solution causing games to go longer, however I do not believe this to be the case. Most of all the time in a turn is spent search and playing cards in the preparation phase and discard phase. When those choices are limited less time overall will be spent and more focus will be placed in the battle phase. This could potentially shorten competitive matches to a twenty minute length allowing for a best of three format to arise. Tracking the round may be difficult to do in your head after awhile so a good alternative can be to use some dice as a physical game aid. This way you can keep track of what round it is, and how many times you’ve played a TC card this turn.
Much work on this solution must be done to refine it's true potential which includes testing and discussion. Please share your thoughts and constructive criticisms below so we as a community can better the game we love.
Thank you,
Jared Strauss
Jonesy:
I feel like if we were able to actually make this work it would help. In order to make this work though we would need a simple, and creative way to keep track of rounds. I think that is the biggest hurdle.
I always wondered if creating a deck building rule when it comes to the amount of territory class cards can be in your deck would work. Any idea will have pros and cons.
Hymn:
--- Quote from: Jonesy on September 28, 2022, 08:29:59 PM ---I feel like if we were able to actually make this work it would help. In order to make this work though we would need a simple, and creative way to keep track of rounds. I think that is the biggest hurdle.
I always wondered if creating a deck building rule when it comes to the amount of territory class cards can be in your deck would work. Any idea will have pros and cons.
--- End quote ---
As you say, every idea has it merits. Tracking the rounds would become tedious overtime without some kind of game aid. Realistically, any form of counting tool could be used but dice are the most realistic. You could whip out the old abacus if you wanted, that would actually work really well haha.
Thanks for contributing to the conversation!
agurthewise:
Some of my thoughts on the subject from discord:
I think speed first turn is a huge turn off to new players, and while some could grow to like it they are pushed off before they can adapt to it. Watching your opponent search and set up counters for 6+ minutes while you have no interaction is not fun.
Im only here with this discord because of the community, my history with the game and the theme, I love the cards that tell their story from scripture. The first turn solitaire NPE would have run me off if I didnt have those ties.
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The variant of THE SCHAEFER SOLUTION I would like most is: Players can only play X card(s) outside of battle on their turn, where X is the round.
Dominants (and lost souls) are unaffected by this limit.
I like it as a hard limit on just "cards" because its much simpler rules wise than saying and less arbitrary than territory cards, or “territory cards, sites, fortresses and artifacts. Also prevents nontc character vomit to territory. Making drawing hand up to 16 less enticing in first 2 turns.
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You can still do some larger TC character setup with THE SOLUTION if you abuse banding turn 1.
You can make a rescue attempt with a TC character (straight from hand during battle, so it doesnt count against you) and band in other good TC with Resurrection or Talitha etc... then play an Evil Character TC for discard phase. You could have 3-4 tc in play with that turn 1. So a fast start, but still gives opponent opportunity to fight it in combat.
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Whatever the variation - With the SOLUTION the game would look like classic redemption more on first 2-3 turns and look more like modern redemption in the latter turns. And I love this.
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Would love to see youtubers try it out and maybe unofficial tournaments with it in a few months. I think the current growth is hamstrung by NPE for players. I don’t expect new players to play tournament because it is so full of NPE currently. I just introduce them to casual and cube.
Sean:
If the problem is strictly 1 card type then the adjustments are best served targeting that 1 card type. Lumping in other card types would be too drastic.
I still think the easiest and cleanest way to curb TC cards is to limit them with a deck building rule like was done with Dominants. 1 per LS is already used for multiple card types so adding TC to that list would provide a good limit and not be confusing because the concept already exists.
I also think this is much less a rules issue and more so a power creep issue. The easiest way to curb power creep is to ban. The second easiest way to curb power creep is to cycle out old cards through rotation. The team of elders has been very strategic with banning cards and I think has done very well taking out the few cards that are truly worthy of a ban. I also think the introduction of rotation last tournament season is just a starting point. As time goes on, it is going to become more and more necessary to have another 'round' of rotation. Not only is it good for the game to keep people buying product but such a system also makes it easier for new players to succeed in competitive play sooner without maxing out their credit cards for pieces of cardboard that are shiny. It also creates more easily defined eras of the game which can looked back on nostalgically as well as learned from for future game development.
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