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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: Jonesy on August 23, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
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I have been asked by one of my students who were the top 5 active players in redemption by category. It made me think that there is not currently a definitive way to tell. RNRS is not accurate since it is based off the region you play in, and how many tournaments you are able to attend. You could go off the previous Nats, but i feel like that as well is not accurate because you can have arguably the number 1 player in the country have a bad draw in top cut and end up last, or the number 1 and 2 players play first round then that is a little skewed, etc.. etc..
So I have come to you the community to see what you think about rankings in any category. This post is not meant to offend anyone by any means, so please no bashing. I just want to know who the community overall will think are the top 5 in each category. Maybe if this picks up enough steam someone will make an official poll. ;)
So please share you're personal rankings :)
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Jay Chambers!
4/10 to the face!
But seriously,
It's pretty tough, and super subjective. I would like to think that the Top 5 for T1-2P would include myself and Josiah Beers, but you could easily argue for other players (Including Jay) depending on the criteria you value. Jerome Beers is a fantastic player, but he doesn't have the same community name recognition because he has other commitments that influence the amount of time that he spends in the public sphere of the game. James Roepke was similar years ago.
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So here are my T1-2P rankings Top 5 active players.
1. Gabe Isbell
2. John Earley
3. Josiah Beers
4. Brian Jones ;)
5. Josh Knitt
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So here are my T1-2P rankings Top 5 active players.
1. Gabe Isbell
2. John Early
3. Josiah Beers
4. Brian Jones ;)
5. Josh Knitt
Maybe if people knew how to spell my name right I could be #1 :D
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I couldn't get my list down to five since two of these guys didn't play at Nats this year. In no particular order...
T1 2P:
John E
Gabe I
Josiah B
Josh P
Josh K
Brian J
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So here are my T1-2P rankings Top 5 active players.
1. Gabe Isbell
2. John Early
3. Josiah Beers
4. Brian Jones ;)
5. Josh Knitt
Maybe if people knew how to spell my name right I could be #1 :D
Auto correct lol
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So here are my T1-2P rankings Top 5 active players.
1. Gabe Isbell
2. John Early
3. Josiah Beers
4. Brian Jones ;)
5. Josh Knitt
Maybe if people knew how to spell my name right I could be #1 :D
Should have taken your wife's last name... ::)
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1. Jerome B
2. John E
3. Josiah B
4. Gabe I
- Top 4 are S Tier
5. Brian Jones
6. Josh Knit
7. JD
8. Josh P
9. Justin A
10. Tyler S
- 5 thru 10 A Tier
11. Kye
12. Jonathan G
13. Jay C
14. Derek T
15. Charles J
16. I’m sorry I don’t know which one of you this but one of the W’s
17. Jeremy C
18. Jeremy S
19. Aiden
- 11 thru 19 B Tier
(I believe all 3 of these tiers have players that can/could/should be able to win a national tournament)
These Rankings are my own opinion and not intended to be offensive to anyone in anyway. This includes my opinion, recent placing, and personal records.
It’s also possible that I have names and players slipping my mind.
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Is your list general or just T1 Josiah? Either way Justin has an argument for S tier and you're missing Tyler Stevens
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Is your list general or just T1 Josiah? Either way Justin has an argument for S tier and you're missing Tyler Stevens
Yes it’s t1
Yep I wiffed in Tyler and The Tripplet W’s.
Fixed
Justin hasn’t played type 1 at highest level in awhile. He suffers in my list the same way jerome suffers on yours.
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Justin hasn’t played type 1 at highest level in awhile. He suffers in my list the same way jerome suffers on yours.
Kind of a knock on East Central I guess ;)
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Is your list general or just T1 Josiah? Either way Justin has an argument for S tier and you're missing Tyler Stevens
Justin hasn’t played type 1 at highest level in awhile. He suffers in my list the same way jerome suffers on yours.
Note that I haven't actually released a list, and specifically mentioned Jerome as having an argument for a top spot.
I also totally just re-read all 7 pages of the Redemption BCS thread from 2011, because this reminded me of it. Good times man. Maybe I'll track down Kirk's list next
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Type 2 list
1. Justin A
2. Josiah B
3. Tyler S
4. Jayden A
5. Noah W
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Type 2 list
1. Justin A
2. Josiah B
3. Tyler S
4. Jayden A
5. Noah W
List is missing duelin'dude
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I also totally just re-read all 7 pages of the Redemption BCS thread from 2011, because this reminded me of it. Good times man. Maybe I'll track down Kirk's list next
What thread are you referring to? I'm not sure what your acronym is... :scratch:
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I also totally just re-read all 7 pages of the Redemption BCS thread from 2011, because this reminded me of it. Good times man. Maybe I'll track down Kirk's list next
What thread are you referring to? I'm not sure what your acronym is... :scratch:
It's in open discussion, which ironically is not open.
Here it is (http://www.cactusforums.com/open-discussion/the-redemption-bcs-project/)
I also found Kirk's thread here (http://www.cactusforums.com/official-tournaments/top-t1-2p-players-at-nationals-over-past-10-years/)
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Type 2 list
1. Justin A
2. Josiah B
3. Tyler S
4. Jayden A
5. Noah W
I think Andrew H of the frozen north has a good chance of either being top 5 of T2, or close to it. But I don't know enough about Redemption outside my playgroup to know for sure.
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Top 15 T1-2P for 2018
1. Josiah B.
2. John E.
3.Gabe I.
4. Brian J.
5. Josh K.
6. Nic M.
7. Josh P
8. Jay C.
9. Jeremy C.
10. Kye M.
11. Tyler S.
12. Jacob A.
13. Aiden S.
14. Derek T.
15. Charles J.
Bonus 5:
JD C.
Daniel H.
Luke M.
Jerome B.
Jonathan G.
T2-2P
1. Tie - Justin A, Tyler S.
2. Josiah B. (If Playing)
3. Gabe I. (If Playing)
4. Noah W.
5. Jayden A.
6. Jordan A.
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1. Jerome B
2. John E
3. Josiah B
4. Gabe I
- Top 4 are S Tier
5. Brian Jones
6. Josh Knit
7. JD
8. Josh P
9. Justin A
10. Tyler S
- 5 thru 10 A Tier
11. Kye
12. Jonathan G
13. Jay C
14. Derek T
15. Charles J
16. I’m sorry I don’t know which one of you this but one of the W’s
17. Jeremy C
18. Jeremy S
19. Aiden
- 11 thru 19 B Tier
(I believe all 3 of these tiers have players that can/could/should be able to win a national tournament)
These Rankings are my own opinion and not intended to be offensive to anyone in anyway. This includes my opinion, recent placing, and personal records.
It’s also possible that I have names and players slipping my mind.
I'm saddened by the lack of Nic Marshall on this list ;)
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I hope to pull back into that top list over the next couple years.
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Type 2 list
1. Justin A
2. Josiah B
3. Tyler S
4. Jayden A
5. Noah W
Interestingly I beat Tyler in the last two Nats he was at and I lost to Noah in the last two Nats he was at. :P
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Nic M was an oversight on my part I don’t know Him super well and have only played around him a couple times. I’m sure I had some missed names on my list as I built it from my brain alone without looking up results.
***That is very interesting Jayden although even with that knowledge I’m not sure I would flip anyone on my t2 list
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I also totally just re-read all 7 pages of the Redemption BCS thread from 2011, because this reminded me of it. Good times man. Maybe I'll track down Kirk's list next
What thread are you referring to? I'm not sure what your acronym is... :scratch:
It's in open discussion, which ironically is not open.
Here it is (http://www.cactusforums.com/open-discussion/the-redemption-bcs-project/)
I also found Kirk's thread here (http://www.cactusforums.com/official-tournaments/top-t1-2p-players-at-nationals-over-past-10-years/)
Nice find John! I have come to 2 conclusions.
1) I still stand by my comments in those threads from years ago.
2) This topic will continue to come up every couple of years. (I have my suspicions as to why.)
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I missed
Daniel H.
Josh H. On my lists as well
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My Type 2 list would include Nate Leverson.
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My Type 2 list would include Nate Leverson.
Nate has made tremendous strides in his development as a player (T2 or otherwise). One thing I would need to see for him to take the next step (specifically as a T2 player) would be to experiment with some new deck types. He pilots his primary T2 deck extremely well, but I think the top players are those who can be successful with various deck strategies.
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I think its too difficult to rank everyone individually but rather feel a tier system is a little better here. However there still becomes a lot of grey area of where a lot of players fall.
For me simply put there are probably 4 major categories for players at the competitive level. Those with proven nats results and consitency of such, those who are capable of nats top finishes, those who arent quite ready for nats top placing but are close, and those who can play well but arent really interested in/capable the upper echelons of play at this point in time.
Even my categories system isnt clear where people should be. I doubt I even know where I myself would fall ( I just always assume the bottom category because its nice to always be trending upwards. Lol) but in the end we all kind of have an idea of those players we view as good or great and most of them will be pretty accurate, overrate some people, underrate some, and not include some.
Its like fantasy football rankings. Theyre never accurate but they try to get close and often are pretty decent at it.
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...but in the end we all kind of have an idea of those players we view as good or great and most of them will be pretty accurate, overrate some people, underrate some, and not include some.
I highlighted this phrase because this is my point every time the issue comes up....this is a subjective discussion in which there is major bias. Everyone uses different criteria to do these rankings.
@Brian, you should have just pretended you knew the rankings and gave them the names of 5 people in the 2 major categories. Because ultimately, your playgroup is going to believe what you say is true.
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@Brian, you should have just pretended you knew the rankings and gave them the names of 5 people in the 2 major categories. Because ultimately, your playgroup is going to believe what you say is true.
Don’t tell him that! He will be the greatest of all time that way! 😛
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...but in the end we all kind of have an idea of those players we view as good or great and most of them will be pretty accurate, overrate some people, underrate some, and not include some.
I highlighted this phrase because this is my point every time the issue comes up....this is a subjective discussion in which there is major bias. Everyone uses different criteria to do these rankings.
@Brian, you should have just pretended you knew the rankings and gave them the names of 5 people in the 2 major categories. Because ultimately, your playgroup is going to believe what you say is true.
I could just tell them what I think, but it spurred on some questions of my own. We have RNRS and even a hall of fame but no ranking year by year. Not sure if other card games do it or not.
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...but in the end we all kind of have an idea of those players we view as good or great and most of them will be pretty accurate, overrate some people, underrate some, and not include some.
I highlighted this phrase because this is my point every time the issue comes up....this is a subjective discussion in which there is major bias. Everyone uses different criteria to do these rankings.
@Brian, you should have just pretended you knew the rankings and gave them the names of 5 people in the 2 major categories. Because ultimately, your playgroup is going to believe what you say is true.
I could just tell them what I think, but it spurred on some questions of my own. We have RNRS and even a hall of fame but no ranking year by year. Not sure if other card games do it or not.
You can look at single year RNRS results for year to year dominance
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I could just tell them what I think, but it spurred on some questions of my own. We have RNRS and even a hall of fame but no ranking year by year. Not sure if other card games do it or not.
The only other game's competitive scene I know anything about is MtG and they have a HoF but its mostly for top players who have a positive impact on the community rather than just the players who are "the best" at the game. There's no strict ranking that I know of since such a thing isn't really possible for something so broad and luck involved as a card game. There's a general pool of people who everyone in the scene knows are frequently seen in the top 8 of large tournaments but that's about as specific as you can get.
The most specific I would rank the competitive scene of Redemption is people who have multiple Nats wins > people who frequently show up in top cut and in regionals top 3 > anyone with a single top cut or regionals top 3 > everyone else. Even that doesn't really tell you much since some people go from never approaching top cut to placing in just a year. The Redemption scene is small enough that anyone who knows the cards and puts in the effort has a pretty good shot at placing in any category. If you want to know who the most consistently good players are RNRS actually does a decent job at showing that.
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I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats
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Which is why Nationals is worth 45 points. A State, Regional and National win is 105 points. Unless the CA player makes Nationals and places second they won't win RNRS
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I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats
Is there anyone who has actually maxed out regional RNRS and placed in it multiple years in a row without ever placing at Nats? I have no idea, I'm genuinely curious. If someone has done that then I would indeed be wrong.
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I have won RNRS in categories that I did not even play at Nats, with easy roads up leading up to it. I am sure others have. I know some people that have a lot of RNRS points that I would not even consider a top 20 player.
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I have won RNRS in categories that I did not even play at Nats, with easy roads up leading up to it. I am sure others have. I know some people that have a lot of RNRS points that I would not even consider a top 20 player.
Read the threads John connected too. They would show that KevintheDude is correct, and RNRS is not that far off. There may be outliers, but RNRS (especially year to year) may be the closest thing to what you are looking for. To win RNRS, you must win a lot of tourney games at all levels. It is going to give you experience and good knowledge of your deck and what else is out there.
I would suggest RNRS is the closest thing to an unbiased ranking system that you're going to get. Every ranking will have pros, cons, and outliers, so I choose to trust the ranking system in place.
However, this thread is not about the RNRS, so I will let that be the last of my input.
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I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats
I mean... are you talking about the past or currently? Currently, the player base in California is close to zero so you'd be right about now... but regarding players in the past I'd say you are very wrong.
Myself, Kurt, Bryon and lightningninja (Brandon) are all from California and we all placed in the top 3 at Nats. The Hakes are legends in the Type II scene. The number of players on this list can be double or triple if you include players from California placing in the top 15 at Nats over the years. If I remember right I placed in the top 15 in Type I 2 player twice over the 4 or so nationals I went to.
My first place in Sealed Deck at Boston Nats was with a player pool that was almost twice the size of the Type II player pool that year. It was like 60 or 70 players participating in Sealed. I also placed fourth in Sealed another year at Missouri Nats (I didn't place due to losing to the first or second place winner in like my 2nd or 3rd game). Those of us who placed at Nats all did it when there was pretty fierce competition.
Sorry if I left out the Kramers or the Wolfes. I can't remember if they ever placed in the top 3 in any categories at Nats. Both families did very well in the RNRS over the years. I think most of us old school California folk are still in the top 100 or top 50 of the current all time RNRS list.
Sorry I just had to defend us California folk :P
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I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats
Is there anyone who has actually maxed out regional RNRS and placed in it multiple years in a row without ever placing at Nats? I have no idea, I'm genuinely curious. If someone has done that then I would indeed be wrong.
i have placed 3rd in rnrs the past 2 years for t2-multi without attending nats
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I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats
I mean... are you talking about the past or currently? Currently, the player base in California is close to zero so you'd be right about now... but regarding players in the past I'd say you are very wrong.
Myself, Kurt, Bryon and lightningninja (Brandon) are all from California and we all placed in the top 3 at Nats. The Hakes are legends in the Type II scene. The number of players on this list can be double or triple if you include players from California placing in the top 15 at Nats over the years. If I remember right I placed in the top 15 in Type I 2 player twice over the 4 or so nationals I went to.
My first place in Sealed Deck at Boston Nats was with a player pool that was almost twice the size of the Type II player pool that year. It was like 60 or 70 players participating in Sealed. I also placed fourth in Sealed another year at Missouri Nats (I didn't place due to losing to the first or second place winner in like my 2nd or 3rd game). Those of us who placed at Nats all did it when there was pretty fierce competition.
Sorry if I left out the Kramers or the Wolfes. I can't remember if they ever placed in the top 3 in any categories at Nats. Both families did very well in the RNRS over the years. I think most of us old school California folk are still in the top 100 or top 50 of the current all time RNRS list.
Sorry I just had to defend us California folk :P
I know California used to be formidable, I used them as an example because currently from what I know they have dropped off. This thread is becoming something that it was not intended for, so I am going to get it back on track.
Here are my top 3 teams currently(3rd place dropped off this year, but I full expect them to be back). Normally I would separate it by individual, but these players have only played with each other at Nats for the past 3 or so years.
1. John Earley/Gabe Isbell
2. Josiah Beers/ Brian Jones
3. Justin Alstad/ Jayden Alstad
I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on Booster, if that is even possible. lol
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I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats
I mean... are you talking about the past or currently? Currently, the player base in California is close to zero so you'd be right about now... but regarding players in the past I'd say you are very wrong.
Myself, Kurt, Bryon and lightningninja (Brandon) are all from California and we all placed in the top 3 at Nats. The Hakes are legends in the Type II scene. The number of players on this list can be double or triple if you include players from California placing in the top 15 at Nats over the years. If I remember right I placed in the top 15 in Type I 2 player twice over the 4 or so nationals I went to.
My first place in Sealed Deck at Boston Nats was with a player pool that was almost twice the size of the Type II player pool that year. It was like 60 or 70 players participating in Sealed. I also placed fourth in Sealed another year at Missouri Nats (I didn't place due to losing to the first or second place winner in like my 2nd or 3rd game). Those of us who placed at Nats all did it when there was pretty fierce competition.
Sorry if I left out the Kramers or the Wolfes. I can't remember if they ever placed in the top 3 in any categories at Nats. Both families did very well in the RNRS over the years. I think most of us old school California folk are still in the top 100 or top 50 of the current all time RNRS list.
Sorry I just had to defend us California folk :P
I know California used to be formidable, I used them as an example because currently from what I know they have dropped off. This thread is becoming something that it was not intended for, so I am going to get it back on track.
Here are my top 3 teams currently(3rd place dropped off this year, but I full expect them to be back). Normally I would separate it by individual, but these players have only played with each other at Nats for the past 3 or so years.
1. John Earley/Gabe Isbell
2. Josiah Beers/ Brian Jones
3. Justin Alstad/ Jayden Alstad
I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on Booster, if that is even possible. lol
Needs more Craig Fountain/Matt Brinkman and Sauce/Westy...
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I don’t think RNRS is a good system for that. A player in California can max out in RNRS, but most likely would even hit top 15 at Nats
I mean... are you talking about the past or currently? Currently, the player base in California is close to zero so you'd be right about now... but regarding players in the past I'd say you are very wrong.
Myself, Kurt, Bryon and lightningninja (Brandon) are all from California and we all placed in the top 3 at Nats. The Hakes are legends in the Type II scene. The number of players on this list can be double or triple if you include players from California placing in the top 15 at Nats over the years. If I remember right I placed in the top 15 in Type I 2 player twice over the 4 or so nationals I went to.
My first place in Sealed Deck at Boston Nats was with a player pool that was almost twice the size of the Type II player pool that year. It was like 60 or 70 players participating in Sealed. I also placed fourth in Sealed another year at Missouri Nats (I didn't place due to losing to the first or second place winner in like my 2nd or 3rd game). Those of us who placed at Nats all did it when there was pretty fierce competition.
Sorry if I left out the Kramers or the Wolfes. I can't remember if they ever placed in the top 3 in any categories at Nats. Both families did very well in the RNRS over the years. I think most of us old school California folk are still in the top 100 or top 50 of the current all time RNRS list.
Sorry I just had to defend us California folk :P
I know California used to be formidable, I used them as an example because currently from what I know they have dropped off. This thread is becoming something that it was not intended for, so I am going to get it back on track.
Here are my top 3 teams currently(3rd place dropped off this year, but I full expect them to be back). Normally I would separate it by individual, but these players have only played with each other at Nats for the past 3 or so years.
1. John Earley/Gabe Isbell
2. Josiah Beers/ Brian Jones
3. Justin Alstad/ Jayden Alstad
I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on Booster, if that is even possible. lol
Needs more Craig Fountain/Matt Brinkman and Sauce/Westy...
I have been doing current players on all my rankings. I would love feedback from people who have been around for a long time to give their opinions on who are the top players of all time by category.
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My Type 2 list would include Nate Leverson.
Nate has made tremendous strides in his development as a player (T2 or otherwise). One thing I would need to see for him to take the next step (specifically as a T2 player) would be to experiment with some new deck types. He pilots his primary T2 deck extremely well, but I think the top players are those who can be successful with various deck strategies.
Aww, Thanks Hobbit and Justin, that means a lot! I am getting really close to having enough cards for a new Type 2 deck, but my only limiting factor in Type 2 is having multiples of powerful cards. I hope to play more soon!
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All I can say for Booster is Josh Knitt would be at the top of any list I come up with. He seems to be the most consistent Booster player as far as I know.
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In order
Top 5 for T1:
Gabe Isbell
Josiah Beers
John Earley
Brian Jones
JD
Top 5 for T2:
Justin Alstad
Josiah Beers
Tyler Stevens
Jayden Alstad
If Gabe plays he would make the T2 list at 4. Jayden is obviously a top player, but he just recently has been consistent in going to nats, just needs more T2 2P wins, which I’m sure will come probably next year. Clift was consistently ranking but he’s out of the game. I agree with Justin about a top player having deck versatility but I would have no problem putting Noah or Nathan Leverson on here. Nathan Voigt has always played well too, he just hasn’t been able to make it to nationals lately. It’s tough to make a top 5 for T2 as sad as that is. My type 2 list consists of two alstads, a t1 player and myself lol not much versatility.
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Between RNRS points and major tournament wins (which become lots of RNRS points though?) I think the systems are already in place to see who the best players are. This topic seems like more of a way to either ignore failure or success based on opinion? I'd be more curious to hear which are the strongest -> weakest regions and states of the ones that actually hosted region and state level tournaments since playing 'weak regions' seems to be the common complaint about RNRS. Oh and feel free to rank them separately for T1 and T2 if that is necessary.
For reference, in 2017-2018, the state level tournaments that were hosted were (11):
TX
MB
MN
TN
MA
OH
CT
IA
FL
PA
KS
And the regions that hosted regionals (5):
South Central
North East
East Central
South East
North Central
From this list, any argument about players in California etc. having it easy seem to be void - they don't even have tournaments for their players to attend.
And as this topic is about giving opinion, I would like to take the time recognize some of the players in my playgroup.
Evan B. (also would be the one I would bet on for 2-player booster)
Andy G. (aka the music leader master)
Kevin P. (can and does pretty much play everything)
All are great players who are capable of playing a variety of deck types at a high level.
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Regions Ranking:
North Central
East Central
North East
South East
South Central
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This whole ranking system is flawed immensely because you are taking into effect one major flaw of Redemption. I cannot voice it here because it will upset people. I hope with the new set it will be different but I doubt it.
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This whole ranking system is flawed immensely because you are taking into effect one major flaw of Redemption. I cannot voice it here because it will upset people. I hope with the new set it will be different but I doubt it.
There is no "official" ranking system...people are simply giving their opinions.
While I am curious what you believe the major flaw is, I appreciate that you feel it would not be beneficial to share publicly.
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Curiosity: what state is MB? Interesting question: what about that player that is supposed to have attended 20 Nats in a row, where would he factor in the rank system?
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MB is Manitoba (Canada).
Ron Sias has always been a good player and was the one who first designed arguably the most powerful T2 combo deck ever. He won several National titles in the early years of the National tournament, but his last Nationals win was in 2009 (T2 MP at California Nats). Unfortunately he doesn't get to many tournaments besides Nationals.
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Its like fantasy football rankings. Theyre never accurate but they try to get close and often are pretty decent at it.
Great idea! We should do Fantasy Redemption for Nationals next year. Assign every player a guesstimated value and give folks a certain number of points to draft their fantasy Redemption team. So for example:
1) You must have five players on your team
2) You have 10 points to spend
3) Player ratings go from 1 (e.g., Joe RLK) to 6 (e.g., John "Reigning Champeen" Earley)
So if you pick a six-pointer your other four players have to be one pointers. You get points for how well each member of your team finishes.
This would be so much fun.
You set the player ratings they same way Fan Duel or whatever sets theirs. You start with a guess and then as people select teams you modify the ratings and iterate. In the end the final draft value as worlds start is a pretty fair estimate of how the community ranks that player.
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I would imagine the comment of upsetting people had to do with a lack of diversity in top decks. I can't really argue his point, that I am completely making up, so who knows. But I would say there is a perfect counter to this statement. Both two player categories won with speed, throne, and choose the blocker, if that is his point then that is true, but last year CoL won in t1 and purple brown won in t2 I believe, I already forgot if Josiah or whoever won last year sorry, but that's what he was running and he has two titles in t2, so I believe that's correct. Anyway, I don't see too much of a major flaw, maybe lack of players and attendance, but that hopefully is an outlier for just this year. Overall, the game is amazing and there are tons of strategies although I do believe more attendance means more diversified decks and opening up t2 for t1 players and vice-versa gives more competition and more deck strategies.
Also, Ron Sias is a legend in his own right and one of the most dedicated players in Redemption so great pick. As for top 5 in recent, he has been too busy, but top 5 of for the first ten years of Redemption, now you're on to something.
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10. Rankings
9. are
8. meaningless
7. because
6. everyone
5. has
4. strengths
3. and
2. weaknesses
1. Andrew Wester
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I would imagine the comment of upsetting people had to do with a lack of diversity in top decks. I can't really argue his point, that I am completely making up, so who knows. But I would say there is a perfect counter to this statement. Both two player categories won with speed, throne, and choose the blocker, if that is his point then that is true, but last year CoL won in t1 and purple brown won in t2 I believe, I already forgot if Josiah or whoever won last year sorry, but that's what he was running and he has two titles in t2, so I believe that's correct. Anyway, I don't see too much of a major flaw, maybe lack of players and attendance, but that hopefully is an outlier for just this year. Overall, the game is amazing and there are tons of strategies although I do believe more attendance means more diversified decks and opening up t2 for t1 players and vice-versa gives more competition and more deck strategies.
Also, Ron Sias is a legend in his own right and one of the most dedicated players in Redemption so great pick. As for top 5 in recent, he has been too busy, but top 5 of for the first ten years of Redemption, now you're on to something.
IMO most years there have been a couple decks that pre-Nats are all debateably the best decks then post-Nats it's generally pretty obvious what the single best deck is. This year it at least felt like there was a ton more diversity in potential top tier decks pre-Nats and while Throne with a CtB focus seems to objectively be the best I still believe Party belongs in the same tier especially since Throne has received significantly more tuning than Party. If this meta were to last a while I would not be surprised to see a build of Party overtake Throne as the "best" deck. All in all this year feels more diverse both pre and post Nats than previous years so it appears card design is leading the meta in the right direction.
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I know I am bringing back up an old thread but I do love these conversations especially since this one died out before nationals last year, and we are gearing up for the middle of the competitive season now. Jay and I were talking today about where does Tim Maly rank all time. I did some digging because my point was easily a top ten but not a top 5 anymore due to just life in general for him and Britta and because he has not been able to play like he used to which recency bias ends up trumping. I also think that since Tim stopped playing competitively, Gabe, Josiah, Brian, and others have all gone on to win/rank multiple times which potentially could move Tim down. Man I feel like I am bashing Tim, I'm sorry Tim!
Josiah started up the HoF voting back in 2017 I believe but I am not sure if it was ever completed. Mark Underwood had a comment about how he was surprised that he did not get nominated and this goes back to recency bias, which is true for everything just about. I also would say that Mark has done an immense amount for the game, just like John Michalinsdvksjbesyn. (Michalyzsyn?) The NFL has two separate categories for players and contributors and I would think John and Mark, both being great players with immense longevity, would easily be first ballot HoF'er's in the contributing aspect.
I also wanted to revive this sort of conversation because I was looking for updated RNRS totals and all I could find was the 2016 article by none other than...Tim Maly. So do we have an updated HoF and RNRS totals?
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I have the Lifetime RNRS totals spreadsheet with everything up through last year's Nationals. I'll plan to update with this year's and have it at Nationals to update with Nationals results.
Ironically, Britta actually plays more than Tim does now... ;D
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Gabe
John
Josiah
Tim
Justin (because no T1 at Nationals, tops my T2 List)
Keith Bartram
Tyler Stevens
Matt Townsend
JD
Clift Crysel/Ron Sias/Jordan Alstad tie
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Justin can you post a link to that please?
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I have the Lifetime RNRS totals spreadsheet with everything up through last year's Nationals. I'll plan to update with this year's and have it at Nationals to update with Nationals results.
Ironically, Britta actually plays more than Tim does now... ;D
Yes she is a very respectful player and consequently expects the same! Don't band to her Evil Characters, she gets mad!
Gabe
John
Josiah
Tim
Justin (because no T1 at Nationals, tops my T2 List)
Keith Bartram
Tyler Stevens
Matt Townsend
JD
Clift Crysel/Ron Sias/Jordan Alstad tie
You tried!
In no particular order... I tried to include all pioneers of the game that are the best players also.
Gabe
John E.
Josiah
Tim
Jordan A.
John Nesfeder
JDS
JD
Tim Mierz.
Brian Hake/Chris Bany/ Keith B/ Kevin Shride
Clift, Tyler S., Daniel H., Johnathon A., Jayden, and Martin Miller I could fit in here depending on my mood. Jay, Kevin, and I are rising stars!
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I have the Lifetime RNRS totals spreadsheet with everything up through last year's Nationals. I'll plan to update with this year's and have it at Nationals to update with Nationals results.
Ironically, Britta actually plays more than Tim does now... ;D
Yes she is a very respectful player and consequently expects the same! Don't band to her Evil Characters, she gets mad!
Gabe
John
Josiah
Tim
Justin (because no T1 at Nationals, tops my T2 List)
Keith Bartram
Tyler Stevens
Matt Townsend
JD
Clift Crysel/Ron Sias/Jordan Alstad tie
You tried!
In no particular order... I tried to include all pioneers of the game that are the best players also.
Gabe
John E.
Josiah
Tim
Jordan A.
John Nesfeder
JDS
JD
Tim Mierz.
Brian Hake/Chris Bany/ Keith B/ Kevin Shride
Clift, Tyler S., Daniel H., Johnathon A., Jayden, and Martin Miller I could fit in here depending on my mood. Jay, Kevin, and I are rising stars!
I'm actually kind of interested in your inclusion of Tim Mierz. I feel Keith B. at least should trump him. JDS was in contention for my list, but I certainly think Tyler Stevens/Eric Largent tie might be more impactful on the history of the game due to T2 accomplishments. John Nesferder is the absolute most underrated player in Redemption history IMO.
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I'm actually kind of interested in your inclusion of Tim Mierz. I feel Keith B. at least should trump him. JDS was in contention for my list, but I certainly think Tyler Stevens/Eric Largent tie might be more impactful on the history of the game due to T2 accomplishments. John Nesferder is the absolute most underrated player in Redemption history IMO.
Jerome Beers would argue with you
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Jerome Beers wouldn't argue lol but I agree with your point. Regardless of the standings I am merely looking for the link to the total RNRS updated rankings.
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Jerome Beers wouldn't argue lol but I agree with your point. Regardless of the standings I am merely looking for the link to the total RNRS updated rankings.
I don't think I actually have it posted anywhere. I'll message Gabe about putting on LoR.
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I'm actually kind of interested in your inclusion of Tim Mierz. I feel Keith B. at least should trump him. JDS was in contention for my list, but I certainly think Tyler Stevens/Eric Largent tie might be more impactful on the history of the game due to T2 accomplishments. John Nesferder is the absolute most underrated player in Redemption history IMO.
Jerome Beers would argue with you
Good point, although MKC is and was always crazy underrated while I've been active.
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Clift, Tyler S., Daniel H., Johnathon A., Jayden, and Martin Miller I could fit in here depending on my mood. Jay, Kevin, and I are rising stars!
I'm actually kind of interested in your inclusion of Tim Mierz. I feel Keith B. at least should trump him. JDS was in contention for my list, but I certainly think Tyler Stevens/Eric Largent tie might be more impactful on the history of the game due to T2 accomplishments. John Nesferder is the absolute most underrated player in Redemption history IMO.
1. My list is in no particular order.
2. You read about as carefully as I understand what I say! ;) This started out as a T1 list, which explains the exclusion of Justin A.'; however, but it does not really explain the inclusion of Brian Hake or Bany.
3. My list is biased and catered toward my personal experience. Bad players are bad---> I am a bad player-->Tyler S. is a great player---> I have never lost to Tyler S.
4. Tyler is on my new list, because previously I ignored the fact that he won T2 2 player last year
5. The inclusion of Tim Mierz. in the top 10 is illogical based on the logic in #3 but stems from the fact that he got 1st place at the OHIO Nationals where I got second place. He probably does not belong among the top 10 of all time, but maybe he does. He plays weird decks and was the pioneer, iiirc, of hand discard! He ran a pre-ROA, genesis/gray hand discard offense in a Babylonians and Prophets meta. Additionally, he ha a weird dominant distribution (evil dominant light, right)?
5. Nesfeder wins many awards in Redemption
6. Brian Cooper also deserves honorable mention. His first tournament back he cleaned my clock with a trust- prosperity- shuffler, combo deck (ironic or fitting? Depends on who you ask!)
7. I forgot Kirk and was too lazy to go back and change it
8. Honestly, I cannot decide which one of our contemporaries is the best T1 player John. E, Gabe I., Josiah B., JDS, JD, Jordan A., Tim Maly, Tim M., Martin M., Josh K., Tyler Stevens, and John Nesfeder, Allen R., Daniel H, and Just A. If we are defining best T1 player as a person having an unusually high Redemption-IQ across some combination of categories like deck building, game-play, and aptitude
9. Josiah Beers is a better Redemption player