Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2010, 01:22:06 AM
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The only times my Manasseh defense even gives up souls period is when I get absolutely horrid draws offensively and defensively. I've stopped playing with my Disciples/Manasseh deck because of how OP it is (that deck is 11-0, and most of those wins I never gave up a Soul). Even when I dilute the deck by running Hur Abuse or some other B strategy with the Menasseh defense, I still only lose with a really bad draw on my end and a really good draw on my opponents end. Just today, I played three games where my opponent had Mayhem and went first, had all of his Dominants in the top 20 cards, drew balanced defense and offense, didn't make any mistakes, and I still won. The only two games I lost today were when I wasn't using a Manasseh defense and when I drew no Heroes or Evil Characters for three turns (with Lost Souls out).
What on earth possessed the playtesters to make a weapon-class, Pale Green/Brown Magician King of Judah who can band to a Magician or a Demon or Discard two Human Evil Characters to win the battle outright!? I'd say he's worse than Thaddeus, and that's saying something. This card is basically forcing you to use HT with Sword and Trumpet or Trumpet Blast in every successful deck. The only reason my offenses are working is because nobody else seems to be running Manasseh defenses.
And lest anyone read this as a complaint, I LOVE Manasseh :D
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i love manasseh too. hes has uber utility, but i dont think hes broken.
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He can play 6 CBN battle-winners off 2kH (Forgotten History, Haman's Plot, Wonders Forgotten, Gibeonite Trickery, Failed Objective and Death of Unrighteous) easily, with access to all the rest via Seven Wicked Spirits banding or banding to cultural demons, has CBN banding to very useful cards to band to, CBN win the battle against a lone Hero at the cost of two Human EC's (two or three autoblocks per game), can hold Magic Charms while being protected...basically the only thing that can stop him is pre-block Sword and Trumpet (assuming you don't have Torment in hand) or pre-block Trumpet Blast with an AotL to follow it up with.
*EDIT* And I forgot to mention Manasseh to WS to SoT to Elymas.
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it takes alot to set him up though, which costs time. it also seems like you're basing your entire defense off of him, which can be risky.
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That's the thing about him: he's like TGT. Twice today Manasseh died to an early Grapes or AotL, and three times I just never ended up blocking with him (all games I won). A defense that features Manasseh is an A defense without Manasseh ever showing up, and when he does its a powerhouse.
It is true that I have the most success with fast offenses, but even the decks that have medium-speed offenses allow the defense to perform.
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also, what was with the manasseh banding chain? just to have high numbers?
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He can play 6 CBN battle-winners off 2kH (Forgotten History, Haman's Plot, Wonders Forgotten, Gibeonite Trickery, Failed Objective and Death of Unrighteous) easily, with access to all the rest via Seven Wicked Spirits banding or banding to cultural demons, has CBN banding to very useful cards to band to, CBN win the battle against a lone Hero at the cost of two Human EC's (two or three autoblocks per game), can hold Magic Charms while being protected...basically the only thing that can stop him is pre-block Sword and Trumpet (assuming you don't have Torment in hand) or pre-block Trumpet Blast with an AotL to follow it up with.
*EDIT* And I forgot to mention Manasseh to WS to SoT to Elymas.
He can't play failed objective. That is gold...
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Doesn't Thaddeus protect ALL cards in play from evil or just non-evil?
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Thaddeus needs his buds to set up and gets pew-pew by Stan's Chair or Herod's Dungeon.
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Ark can blow up manasseh.
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yeah if someone is stupid enough to attack with hm on the 1-2 turns ark is up....
I wanna try this strategy.....
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yeah if someone is stupid enough to attack with hm on the 1-2 turns ark is up....
I wanna try this strategy.....
Ark has to dc twice or it stays up.
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also, what was with the manasseh banding chain? just to have high numbers?
Elymas' ability can protect Manasseh from discard and conversion in battle. And all the banding is CBN/CBI.
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also, what was with the manasseh banding chain? just to have high numbers?
Don't underestimate the power of a 3-4 card CBN band that's Protected from Discard and Conversion (or is FbtN if you end with Balaam).
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yeah if someone is stupid enough to attack with hm on the 1-2 turns ark is up....
I wanna try this strategy.....
Ark has to dc twice or it stays up.
wrong Ark can only be activated 2 times
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yeah if someone is stupid enough to attack with hm on the 1-2 turns ark is up....
I wanna try this strategy.....
Ark has to dc twice or it stays up.
wrong Ark can only be activated 2 times
It's like 30 pieces which d/cs to use.
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yeah if someone is stupid enough to attack with hm on the 1-2 turns ark is up....
I wanna try this strategy.....
Ark has to dc twice or it stays up.
wrong Ark can only be activated 2 times
It's like 30 pieces which d/cs to use.
Wrong dude I'm telling you it gets one counter per turn its up after 2 counters it goes away :angel:
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Wrong dude I'm telling you it gets one counter per turn its up after 2 counters it goes away :angel:
Red is correct, Ark does not get a counter unless it discards an EC.
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Orly wow been playing that wrong since I began...so If I ra Ark is up and I end up discarding the one EC he has attacked with and theres no EC's in his territory no counter?
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Wrong dude I'm telling you it gets one counter per turn its up after 2 counters it goes away :angel:
Red is correct, Ark does not get a counter unless it discards an EC.
When did that change? As long as I've been playing (several years now) the ruling was that Ark, 30, etc. get a "use" even if they don't discard anything.
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Orly wow been playing that wrong since I began...so If I ra Ark is up and I end up discarding the one EC he has attacked with and theres no EC's in his territory no counter?
You're still doin' it wrong.
Ark can only target ECs who have entered battle that turn.
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Wrong dude I'm telling you it gets one counter per turn its up after 2 counters it goes away :angel:
Red is correct, Ark does not get a counter unless it discards an EC.
When did that change? As long as I've been playing (several years now) the ruling was that Ark, 30, etc. get a "use" even if they don't discard anything.
Yes I'm not alone in my ignorance!
@ Smokey: Ok so I discard his one defending EC in battle...counter?
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Yes I'm not alone in my ignorance!
@ Smokey: Ok so I discard his one defending EC in battle...counter?
As far as I know, yes.
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Wrong dude I'm telling you it gets one counter per turn its up after 2 counters it goes away :angel:
Red is correct, Ark does not get a counter unless it discards an EC.
When did that change? As long as I've been playing (several years now) the ruling was that Ark, 30, etc. get a "use" even if they don't discard anything.
Yes I'm not alone in my ignorance!
@ Smokey: Ok so I discard his one defending EC in battle...counter?
Ark: If it gets discarded, by any means, or lives, by any means. It gets discarded (baring protect from discard) and a counter is added.
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Inconsistent with Assyria's Tribute.
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Inconsistent with Assyria's Tribute.
I was about to disagree with you, then I saw it has an errata disguised as a play as:
Ark of the Covenant (Ki)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Regardless of battle outcome one Evil Character an opponent uses to block a rescue attempt is discarded at the end of battle. Limit holder to two such discards per game. • Play As: Regardless of battle outcome, discard one Evil Character in play at the end of battle that your opponent used to block your rescue attempt. May be used once per battle and twice per game. • Identifiers: OT, Tabernacle Item, Temple Item • Verse: Numbers 10:35 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Ultra Rare)
Under the original wording, RED and Gabe would be correct. Under the play as, I would think its closer to Assyria's Tribute.
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If it's not listed as an errata, it isn't one. Gabe and RED are correct, I think the play as, in this instance, just makes it harder to decide what the ability is. If you look at the original ability, it's pretty clear that you have to discard.
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So in other words, yet ANOTHER example of a play as that should simply be ignored.
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One:It's Red now ;)
Two:Assyiria's tribute does not work the way it should.
Three:Don't change ark to that stupid Play As errata thing.
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One of my new favorite combos. Gates out. Manasseh to wandering to temptation to elymus. d/c demon in territory goes to bottom pop him back out next battle almost a auto block. then you can use things like 2k horses and play like confusion and all that junk.
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ws to sot to gomer to manasseh (goj out) to kot. 22/29 btn.
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One of my new favorite combos. Gates out. Manasseh to wandering to temptation to elymus. d/c demon in territory goes to bottom pop him back out next battle almost a auto block. then you can use things like 2k horses and play like confusion and all that junk.
Does this really work? You didn't actually discard the demon, so did you pay Elymas' cost?
Maybe this is an I Am Holy/Chamber issue... But it just seems to me that if you don't pay the exact cost, then you shouldn't get the benefit. "Instead" in this case makes it so the exact cost is not paid.
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One:It's Red now
Do you care?
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One:It's Red now
Do you care?
Not really coulda posted a ;)
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One of my new favorite combos. Gates out. Manasseh to wandering to temptation to elymus. d/c demon in territory goes to bottom pop him back out next battle almost a auto block. then you can use things like 2k horses and play like confusion and all that junk.
Does this really work? You didn't actually discard the demon, so did you pay Elymas' cost?
Maybe this is an I Am Holy/Chamber issue... But it just seems to me that if you don't pay the exact cost, then you shouldn't get the benefit. "Instead" in this case makes it so the exact cost is not paid.
Instead changes the cost, I Am Holy / Chamber works.
SSS and Cov of Eden doesn't work because Cov of Eden protects from removal.
I can use Herod's Temple to instead the discard of Emp Otho's SA.
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HTemple specifies opponent's abilities. Trust me, if it worked like that I would have abused it since Di came out.
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so does the man/ws/sot/elymas/goh combo work or not?
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As of right now, yes, since IaH+Chamber still works. But I think the mechanics of "instead" are under heavy discussion.
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I confirm that they are under discussion. I have no idea how it'll turn out, but the PTB are working on it.
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Can anyone give me a twelve card defense for a King Mannasseh?
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Depends on what you want it to do. There's dual-horsing, CBN return abuse, standard, Herod's Mantropolis, abuse, and mandemonium.
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Depends on what you want it to do. There's dual-horsing, CBN return abuse, standard, Herod's Mantropolis, abuse, and mandemonium.
man/demon/ium sounds good. PM please?
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Same. I'm curious if this is better than the defense I've been working on.
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A 12 card Mandemonium defense would look something like this:
Manasseh
Seven Wicked Spirits
Wandering Spirit
Elymas
Spirit of Temptation
Two Thousand Horses
Golgotha
Death of Unrighteous
Forgotten History
Torment
King of Tyrus
Gates of Jerusalem
12 cards is super-super small, though.
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how about a 30 card? ;D
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Depends on the rest of the deck.
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Depends on the rest of the deck.
Job.
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how about 20ish with a TGT?
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Manasseh = new philistine defense, It works with almost any size deck and is much better than anything else...
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I still haven't seen a Philly defense. I've seen Philly Garrison and Armor Bearer, and 12 FG, with Philly Outpost, and the occasional Land Dispute, but nothing more.
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I still haven't seen a Philly defense. I've seen Philly Garrison and Armor Bearer, and 12 FG, with Philly Outpost, and the occasional Land Dispute, but nothing more.
Unfortunately, that is a Philly defense. Light, portable and opposing.
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Pol, I'm uncreative and a bad deck builder. Can you make a 1 card Manesseh defense for me? The rest of the deck is 49 card heroless.
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You know, if you got manasseh out first turn, it might actually work
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There's dual-horsing, CBN return abuse, standard, Herod's Mantropolis, abuse, and mandemonium.
I wouldn't mind hearing more about these. ;)