Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Are these errata, or new versions that act differently (like the Unlimited and Limited versions of the Lost Souls card)?

If given errata would these be the first ever brigade errata?

Also, half of the time the abbreviation for New Testament in a special ability is "NT" and half of the time it is "N.T.".  If it is not too late, can I express a preference for "NT"?

I will update these cards in the wiki once I get new card images.

If given errata would these be the first ever brigade ever?

Yep. We will likely follow it up with an ANB errata that converts it to its natural color, Blue, and adds "if Jacob is not in battle" to the ability. 

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on August 15, 2014, 12:42:05 PM

If given errata would these be the first ever brigade ever?

Yep. We will likely follow it up with an ANB errata that converts it to its natural color, Blue, and adds "if Jacob is not in battle" to the ability. 

My Joseph thanks you.

I see I also need to add some more "ever"s to my question.

You are better off just banning the card than completely change what a card does and issuing erratas.  It would have been better to wait until a later date to release The Early Church set than to release it as the least polished set in Redemption history at Nationals. 

 1) Coming of the Spirit is changed from:

"Search deck or discard pile for The Holy Spirit and put in play to draw 2.  Cannot be negated."

to

"Search deck or discard pile for The Holy Spirit. Place it on your disciple: It gains clay brigade. Cannot be negated."

Are we going to have to carry around a sheet of errata-ed cards around at tournament so players know what cards do?  Was that actually deemed broken?  Underpowered?  I'm not sure. 

2)Eliminating brown on Seek and Destroy?  Again probably gonna have to carry around errata sheet for players who didn't catch the erratas on the forums.  Why are defensive cards deemed broken always changed?  Why isn't this done with offensive cards?

3) Evil Strength- removing the CBI?  Are we going to errata other CBI cards deemed broken?  Is Thaddeus going to lose his CBI? 

1. I appreciate Robs efforts for us as a community especially with him dealing with personal issues.

2. I have been called on being more tactful in my approach to situations recently and would offer up the idea that MRS was not directly attacking Rob.  I don't think he had maltious intentions towards any particular person.

3. It was announced at nats that we would be BETA testers on the new set during booster and  fun games that included the new cards.  We all knew there was going to be changes made.

4. Seek and Destroy only being black doesn't play a huge significance because there aren't very many Brown NT EC's anyways (let alone playable ones).

5.  Taming the speed of purple by loosing the D2 isn't a terrible thing in brigade that already has access to drawing speed.

6.  Evil Strength needed to lose the CBI or it was OP in t2.

7. Honestly there was only 1140 packs in the first run so the market is not inundated with changed cards at this point.

8. The changes are cool for collectors especially with the UR's and R's.

The Wiki is up to date with the second printing. Here are the changes I made.

Added the rarity and card number to all pages.
Minor grammar and capitalization changes.

More significant changes:
Italics were mistakes on my part during the initial process:

 • Abandonment - Now Gold/Black.
 • Angel of Deliverance - Now Unique.
 • Coming of the Spirit - Now 3/3. Ability did not change from what was in the Wiki before.
 • Emp Caius Caligula - I added Royal Family identifier.
 • Evil Strength - "Cannot be interrupted" was removed.
 • Faithful Priest - Now Generic. Infobox was messed up, fixed.
 • Four Squads of Four - Now has Roman printed on the card (I had this in the REG based on prior rulings).
 • Gentleness - Minor wording change: Went from "...discard abilities. Negate play abilities" to "discard abilities and negate play abilities." The card needs to be placed and the hero must be in battle for the negate to work.
 • Herod Agrippa I - Wording has been updated to match Herod's Sword: "(if it is a Lost Soul, put it in play instead)"
 • Herod's Sentries - The first ability has been reworded to use modern terminology. Now reads: "Protect captured characters from rescue unless an angel is in play."
 • Nicanor - Wording changed from: "While another Deacon (or Widows’ Tables) is in play, if an opponent draws because of his special ability, instead, each player draws 1. Cannot be interrupted." to "While you control another deacon (or Widows' Tables), and if an opponent draws because of his special ability (except Nicanor), instead each player draws 1. Cannot be interrupted."
 • Parmenas - Wording changed from "You may discard a clay enhancement..." to "You may discard a clay enhancement from hand".
 • Partners with Demons - Wording changed from "(except a Lost Soul)." to "(except Lost Soul cards)."
 • Patience - Wording changed from "...at the end of each turn..." to "...at the end of your turn...".
 • Paul's Disciples - Now Generic.
 • Peter - Now a Jerusalem Hero.
 • Reassuring Angels - Now Unique.
 • Scroll of Isaiah - I forgot to add "from hand" at the end.
 • Seek and Destroy - Now only Black (The page for this card originally said black, but I had added it to the Brown Brigade and Split Brigade pages, these have been fixed.) Wording change: "...abilities are regardless..." to "...abilities gain regardless..."
 • Simon the Magician - Gained Samaritan identifier.
 • Stephen - Wording change: "Reveal opponent’s hand. Shuffle..." to "Reveal opponent’s hand and shuffle..."
 • The False Prophet - Gained Magician identifier. Wording change: "Negate good Convert." to "Negate good convert abilities."
 • The Holy Spirit - Wording change: "you may search discard pile" to "you may search your deck or discard pile".

2)Eliminating brown on Seek and Destroy?  Again probably gonna have to carry around errata sheet for players who didn't catch the erratas on the forums.  Why are defensive cards deemed broken always changed?  Why isn't this done with offensive cards?

3) Evil Strength- removing the CBI?  Are we going to errata other CBI cards deemed broken?  Is Thaddeus going to lose his CBI?

2) The brown honestly is more limiting on Seek and Destroy than advantageous (since being a useless brigade limits it in deck construction in type II).  Also you say defensive cards deemed broken always get changed and offensive cards don't, but let me point you to the most errata'd card in the game for being broken, ANB, which is definitely an offensive card.  Even in this set Patience is getting an errata for being too good as an offensive card.

The phase one printing is a limited set of cards, for which it was announced before they were sold that the special abilities on the cards might change (and even then the changes that require an errata are a rather small portion of the set in total).  If you don't want to carry around an errata sheet for it, then just get the cards when they are reprinted with the updated abilities.  Its not like the market is going to be flooded with the versions that are errata'd, there aren't that many of those in existence.

1) Coming of the Spirit is changed from:

"Search deck or discard pile for The Holy Spirit and put in play to draw 2.  Cannot be negated."

to

"Search deck or discard pile for The Holy Spirit. Place it on your disciple: It gains clay brigade. Cannot be negated."

Are we going to have to carry around a sheet of errata-ed cards around at tournament so players know what cards do?  Was that actually deemed broken?  Underpowered?  I'm not sure.

If you understood my original post to indicate all of these cards will receive errata, I'm sorry. That decision hasn't been made. I only know that of one for sure, but it's possible a few, maybe even all of them will. Neither of the Coming of the Spirit are OP. I'm fine with having the original version be played as it reads.

2)Eliminating brown on Seek and Destroy?  Again probably gonna have to carry around errata sheet for players who didn't catch the erratas on the forums.  Why are defensive cards deemed broken always changed?  Why isn't this done with offensive cards?

Nothing about having brown on this is broken. It was never intended to have brown, none of the play testers saw it with brown and Rob didn't know how it got printed that way. We removed it because we intended it to be all black from the beginning. Brown doesn't have an N.T. theme at this time. It's possible we will leave the ones in print as is with no errata. Then RDT can play it in his Angry Mob deck.

3) Evil Strength- removing the CBI?  Are we going to errata other CBI cards deemed broken?  Is Thaddeus going to lose his CBI?

This card is abusive in T2. We have the chance to fix it before the bulk of the cards are printed. We are going to errata the existing copies. Maybe we will just ban them but I doubt it. I'm speaking out of turn, but Cactus could decide to offer a "Redemption" program where people can mail in the Nationals release copy for a corrected copy of the same card. I imagine plenty of players will be happy to make that trade if you don't want the ones you got at Nationals. 

2)Eliminating brown on Seek and Destroy?  Again probably gonna have to carry around errata sheet for players who didn't catch the erratas on the forums.

If it makes it easier, I have a black Sharpie^(tm) that I am willing to share with you the next time we meet.

I am willing to trade out second printing cards for cards released at Nationals for any card we errata.  So, if you want an updated version of Evil Strength (for example) then mail these to me and I will mail you back replacements.  I am confident I can find collectors who would like them or other players who don't mind playing these as according to errata.

Cheers,
Rob

The new printing have many good changes, I think.

I've heard late August/early September as the timeframe for the 2nd printing of Phase 1.

Hate to change Nicanor AGAIN, but if your opponent has Gifts of the Magi active, infinite loop happens.

Its actually not an infinite loop there.  The person who has gifts active gets to choose when to stop drawing.

Quote from: Minion of Jesus on August 17, 2014, 11:06:31 PM

Hate to change Nicanor AGAIN, but if your opponent has Gifts of the Magi active, infinite loop happens.

Its actually not an infinite loop there.  The person who has gifts active gets to choose when to stop drawing.

Well, still. Both players could still automatically draw up to 16 cards.

Quote from: Drrek on August 18, 2014, 08:32:39 AM

Quote from: Minion of Jesus on August 17, 2014, 11:06:31 PM

Hate to change Nicanor AGAIN, but if your opponent has Gifts of the Magi active, infinite loop happens.

Its actually not an infinite loop there.  The person who has gifts active gets to choose when to stop drawing.

They would have to stop drawing once they have 16 cards in their hand due to the card hand limit rule change, so this definitely wouldn't be an infinite loop.

Yes, I knew that. I used that term since that is what has been used throughout this entire thread.

It's not really "automatic" since Gifts is a "may." If they really want to allow everyone to draw a bunch of cards they can, but they can stop it anytime (or not even trigger Gifts at all).

Whatever you say. Still seems a bit odd to me.

The original post has been updated with which cards will receive errata, which will not and which cards can be redeemed for a new copy of the beta release.

Can you send me the Alpha copy of Coming of the Spirit and Seek and Destroy? I don't have any images of those versions. Since they are now separate playable cards, I'd like to make new pages for them in the Wiki.

*EDIT*

Also, what about Angel of Deliverance (Generic to Unique), Gentleness (minor wording change that impacts the effect), Reassuring Angels (Generic to Unique), and Stephen (possible impact based on the wording change)? I didn't list the cards that simply gained generic identifiers, but the two angels originally had Generic printed on them. Are they getting errata'd, or do they play as generics?

I just noticed that on the new Glory of the Lord, the special ability does not include protection of Tabernacle artifacts in The Tabernacle.

Glory of the Lord: Search deck or discard pile for The Tabernacle or Solomon's Temple and play it. Place this card on your The Tabernacle or Solomon's Temple: Protect that Fortress and your Temple Artifacts from opponents.

Since GotL applies both to The Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple, is it an oversight that only Temple Artifacts in Solomon's Temple are protected and Tabernacle Artifacts in The Tabernacle are not?

EDIT: Sorry, I think I just figured it out by cross-checking the Wiki...all Tabernacle artifacts are also Temple artifacts   

Thanks CS, you're right, I added an edit to my post after cross-checking (should have done that first)

I believe CS is correct, all Tabernacle Artifacts are also considered Temple Artifacts. However, not all Temple Artifacts are Tabernacle Artifacts. Book of the Law, Windows of Narrow Light and I believe Temple Veil are not considered Tabernacle Artifacts.

Also Golden Cherubim.