Author Topic: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!  (Read 7143 times)

Offline Gabe

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Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« on: April 10, 2018, 02:53:49 PM »
+8
In case you don't often look in the Rules Announcements section...

Further to Gabe's announcement, I have decided to print new copies of two cards receiving errata:

Children of the Light and Mayhem.  I ordered these from the printer today.  I expect to receive these first week of May.  Players are welcome to play their current copies of Children of the Light and Mayhem pursuant to the errata wording.  However, if you would like replacement cards you may mail your copies of these two cards to Cactus along with a postage paid return envelop and I will replace them card for card.  I.E. I will pay for the new cards, and you pay postage both ways.  Send to:

Cactus Game Design
Card Swap Program
751 Tusquittee Road
Hayesville, NC 28904

NOTE:  There is no requirement to exchange cards.  You can play either version as worded on the errata.  And no, the new version of Mayhem will not be a foil card.

Finally, it is best to wait until I announce the cards have shipped from the printer before you mail your cards to Cactus.

Mayhem
Spoiler (hover to show)

Children of Light
Spoiler (hover to show)
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kariusvega

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 02:57:14 PM »
0
This is a fine service, but does anyone want to trade their foil in for non foil? Or CoL is it even worth it now? There is an entire set coming with specific cards to obliterate it, and now it doesn't even have the draw which was it's game winning appeal. Am I missing something?

Daniel

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 03:00:32 PM »
0
This is very generous of you Rob. However, imagine sending your foil Mayhem in for a thin printer copy, no thank you  ;D
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 03:19:03 PM by Daniel »

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 03:01:10 PM »
0
Quote
Am I missing something?

Yes. That's all I can say for now... ::)

Imagine sending your foil Mayhem in for a thin printer copy, no thank you  ;D

That's why it's totally optional.  8)
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Offline _JM_

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 03:04:06 PM »
+2
I like having cards that do what they actually say - helps free up the mind to focus on the other aspects of the game.  However, foil vs non-foil is a big trade-off in appearance.  I'll probably end up trading in one Mayhem so I have a tourney copy, and keeping the others I have for my collection.

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 03:11:12 PM »
+5
This is huge and way beyond what I expected. I have zero complaints about the CoL and Mayhem changes now.

Offline Xonathan

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 03:16:05 PM »
0
This is huge and way beyond what I expected. I have zero complaints about the CoL and Mayhem changes now.

This is certainly unexpected! I can't wait for a new Mayhem! Thank you Rob.
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 03:16:44 PM »
0
We knew this was something Rob was willing to do because it came up during the discussion of the banning of Liner. If we had been able to find a good solution to making Liner work without being abusive, Rob was willing to replace that card too, but we really couldn't find an elegant solution and thus we went with the ban option. However, the Elder team felt it was best that Rob be the one to announce the details, which is why this was not shared yesterday.  8)
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Offline _JM_

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 03:26:57 PM »
+3
To be honest, I was expecting Legacy rare treatment for at least some of the errata'ed cards.  This is much better from a "playing the game" perspective.

Offline Jeremystair

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 03:59:35 PM »
+2
With the new set FoM having THESAURUS EX PRETERITUS in the boxes will we be seeing the new version of Mayhem in them?

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 04:12:30 PM »
0
Each player must shuffle their hand, or 6 cards at random from hand. Each player who does must draw 6.


I don't understand this errata on mayhem.  Am I missing something??

Would it not be easier just to say "Each player must shuffle their hand into deck to draw 6??

Is there a difference between the original ability and the new errata??

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 04:13:51 PM »
+1
You have the option of shuffling your whole hand or 6 random cards from hand

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 04:17:15 PM »
0
Each player must shuffle their hand, or 6 cards at random from hand. Each player who does must draw 6.


I don't understand this errata on mayhem.  Am I missing something??

Would it not be easier just to say "Each player must shuffle their hand into deck to draw 6??

Is there a difference between the original ability and the new errata??

Each player now gets to choose if they want to shuffle 6 or their whole hand (unlikely, but might be a few scenarios where it would make sense). It was worded so that a player with less than six cards in hand still gets to draw (because they shuffled their whole hand).
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Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 04:22:16 PM »
0
You have the option of shuffling your whole hand or 6 random cards from hand


So if my hand was 7 cards I can choose to only shuffle 6 random cards into deck from my hand and whichever one card was not chosen at random I can keep it in my hand??

Also if the player who plays mayhem wants to shuffle their hand how does that player pick 6 random cards from their hand to shuffle if they already know what cards are in their hand??

Do they just put all their cards from hand face down on the playing table mix them up and then choose 6 cards from there to shuffle into deck??


So if the player who plays mayhem has 9 cards in their hand , can they still shuffle their hand to draw 6 cards???
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 04:25:24 PM by redemption collector 777 »

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2018, 04:29:06 PM »
0
Quote
So if my hand was 7 cards I can choose to only shuffle 6 random cards into deck from my hand and whichever one card was not chosen at random I can keep it in my hand??

Yes, and you would draw 6 to put you back at 7 cards.

Quote
Also if the player who plays mayhem wants to shuffle their hand how does that player pick 6 random cards from their hand to shuffle if they already know what cards are in their hand??

Do they just put all their cards from hand face down on the playing table mix them up and then choose 6 cards from there to shuffle into deck??

To clarify, shuffling cards is NOT optional. The option is whether you want to shuffle 6 at random or your whole hand (which can be more or less than 6). On Lackey there is a function to move 6 cards at random from hand to deck. In live games, as long as the process you use is random and timely, you can do it however you want.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 05:11:37 PM »
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Quote
So if my hand was 7 cards I can choose to only shuffle 6 random cards into deck from my hand and whichever one card was not chosen at random I can keep it in my hand??

Yes, and you would draw 6 to put you back at 7 cards.

Quote
Also if the player who plays mayhem wants to shuffle their hand how does that player pick 6 random cards from their hand to shuffle if they already know what cards are in their hand??

Do they just put all their cards from hand face down on the playing table mix them up and then choose 6 cards from there to shuffle into deck??

To clarify, shuffling cards is NOT optional. The option is whether you want to shuffle 6 at random or your whole hand (which can be more or less than 6). On Lackey there is a function to move 6 cards at random from hand to deck. In live games, as long as the process you use is random and timely, you can do it however you want.

And confirming we can once again play Mayhem the first round?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 05:14:35 PM »
+2
Everyone else can. You can't.  ;)
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2018, 05:45:01 PM »
+6
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Offline thecoolguy

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2018, 07:33:09 PM »
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I think that if children of light can't draw than it should be CBN by an evil card but that is my thought
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Offline Josh

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2018, 08:28:49 AM »
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I think that if children of light can't draw than it should be CBN by an evil card but that is my thought

It's CBN by good because Moses was the lynchpin of the top deck when RoJ was released.

I like having cards that do what they actually say - helps free up the mind to focus on the other aspects of the game. 

I agree with this. 
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2018, 12:23:33 PM »
0
I think that if children of light can't draw than it should be CBN by an evil card but that is my thought
It's CBN by good because Moses was the lynchpin of the top deck when RoJ was released. 
I feel like having CoL not be negated by Moses doesn't really matter if all the Enhancements you want to place on them are negated by Moses...

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2018, 12:31:14 PM »
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The idea is that you could still play the enhancements in battle and then keep them safe when CoL returned to territory.
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Offline VJ

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2018, 03:19:10 PM »
0
We knew this was something Rob was willing to do because it came up during the discussion of the banning of Liner. If we had been able to find a good solution to making Liner work without being abusive, Rob was willing to replace that card too, but we really couldn't find an elegant solution and thus we went with the ban option. However, the Elder team felt it was best that Rob be the one to announce the details, which is why this was not shared yesterday.  8)

Fantastic!  Now, where is my extra Mayhem and CoL?
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2018, 06:27:58 PM »
+3
@Cactus Rob:  If I send in my copies of the two- and three-liner cards, will you mail me back nothing?  ;)



Just in case anyone thinks the above is meant as criticism--it is not. I am just ribbing Rob. Seriously, this is an extremely generous offer, and well beyond anything I would have held as a reasonable expectation as a player.

Offline emonier

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2018, 11:01:01 PM »
-2
Yeah,
That sounds cool -- can we trade in our 2 and 3-liners for other souls?
Some of us paid money for them.
-E

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2018, 11:24:23 PM »
+2
Yeah,
That sounds cool -- can we trade in our 2 and 3-liners for other souls?
Some of us paid money for them.
-E


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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2018, 12:29:03 AM »
+2
@Cactus Rob:  If I send in my copies of the two- and three-liner cards, will you mail me back nothing?  ;)



Just in case anyone thinks the above is meant as criticism--it is not. I am just ribbing Rob. Seriously, this is an extremely generous offer, and well beyond anything I would have held as a reasonable expectation as a player.

You can send them to me, and I will mail you back an equal number of generic Lost Souls.  ;D
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Offline NathanW

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2018, 08:53:18 AM »
+1
Yeah,
That sounds cool -- can we trade in our 2 and 3-liners for other souls?
Some of us paid money for them.
-E

I'm pretty sure all of us paid money for them.
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2018, 12:52:26 PM »
0
Or traded for them :)   Ehh, I can always recycle the cards

One thing I realized about the reprint(s) is that 3lions might want some, in case some folks want an extra copy for a collection/birthday or whatever. Just a random thought.
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2018, 01:29:53 PM »
+3
They can obviously still be used in fun games...though how much they contribute to a game being "fun" is certainly debatable... ::)
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2018, 01:57:18 PM »
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I'm hoping the Lost Souls (liner) card would one day turn into a card that generates a lost soul token in your opponent's LOB CBN.
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2018, 02:39:16 PM »
+5
Yeah,
That sounds cool -- can we trade in our 2 and 3-liners for other souls?
Some of us paid money for them.
-E
For what it's worth I've never seen another game offer replacement cards for cards that have been drastically errated. Incredibly generous offer on Rob's part.

You might have lost out a little on the 2 and 3 liner souls but that's a small price to pay in the TCG community. Often times other games will ban large batches of cards or a few high dollar cards (in the value range of The Second Coming) making entire $300+ decks practically worthless after the ban list hits. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 05:23:00 PM by Isildur »
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2018, 03:55:41 PM »
+6
They can obviously still be used in fun games...though how much they contribute to a game being "fun" is certainly debatable... ::)
For all the folks who desire the long play time of T2-Multi, but want it with in a compact T1 deck:

Announcing the all new Souls Only Format

Standard T1 deck building rules apply, with two exceptions
1) Only Souls cards (2- or 3-liners) are allowed for lost souls.
2) Your deck may include multiple copies of Burial and Falling Away (up to the legal Dominant limit)

Offline bmc25

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2018, 10:38:50 AM »
+1
Shout out to Rob for this. He is always looking out for the player base and it shows.

As long as I can talk the judge into it, All of my booster draft decks will now be filled with 7 liner lost souls used as Generics lol

I usually used the old promo lost souls. This will be more fun.
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2018, 11:41:25 AM »
0
Just out of curiosity, would there be an option to get the alternate border of Children of Light instead? I understand if that creates more hassle than it is worth and this is already very generous so by no means am I complaining. I'm just wondering if that is viable.

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2018, 11:45:25 AM »
0
Just out of curiosity, would there be an option to get the alternate border of Children of Light instead? I understand if that creates more hassle than it is worth and this is already very generous so by no means am I complaining. I'm just wondering if that is viable.

Rob has already sent the regular version to the printer. Also, I'm assuming he will be using a portion of them to put in future RoJ packs that he puts together and those would obviously be regular print packs.
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2018, 11:58:19 AM »
0
Just out of curiosity, would there be an option to get the alternate border of Children of Light instead? I understand if that creates more hassle than it is worth and this is already very generous so by no means am I complaining. I'm just wondering if that is viable.

Rob has already sent the regular version to the printer. Also, I'm assuming he will be using a portion of them to put in future RoJ packs that he puts together and those would obviously be regular print packs.

So can we confirm that this might be the plan moving forward?  If a card receives an errata, Rob will reprint it with the updated wording, thus eliminating the errated cards from further distribution?  I know this is a costly method, but this would prevent a ton of the future "leg work" in getting these erratas to everyone.

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2018, 12:13:05 PM »
0
With cards that are from the "print on demand" era (beginning with Early Church) we give Rob an updated image file that he can then give to the printer when future print runs are made--this has already been done on several cards  from the last few sets though I believe Children of Light was the first one from Revelation of John that needed an errata or correction.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2018, 12:29:24 PM »
0
Rob prints cards for the "on demand" packs periodically as his supply runs out. Around the time we released RoJ I gave him some updated files for the Lost Soul cards from EC, PC and CoW which all have the name added to the identifier line. I also did things like add "Martyr" to Peter. Basically any card that needed it's text or identifier updated got an update.

We won't see those in packs until his current stock runs out and a new supply needs to be printed. But eventually they will join the circulation.
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2018, 12:43:44 PM »
+2
Rob prints cards for the "on demand" packs periodically as his supply runs out. Around the time we released RoJ I gave him some updated files for the Lost Soul cards from EC, PC and CoW which all have the name added to the identifier line. I also did things like add "Martyr" to Peter. Basically any card that needed it's text or identifier updated got an update.

We won't see those in packs until his current stock runs out and a new supply needs to be printed. But eventually they will join the circulation.

While I'm an collector, I'm certainly glad I'm not an OCD (have to get every variant ever printed) collector, because this would be frustrating to try to find without knowing things like this were happening.

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2018, 03:34:01 PM »
0
Rob prints cards for the "on demand" packs periodically as his supply runs out. Around the time we released RoJ I gave him some updated files for the Lost Soul cards from EC, PC and CoW which all have the name added to the identifier line. I also did things like add "Martyr" to Peter. Basically any card that needed it's text or identifier updated got an update.

We won't see those in packs until his current stock runs out and a new supply needs to be printed. But eventually they will join the circulation.

While I'm an collector, I'm certainly glad I'm not an OCD (have to get every variant ever printed) collector, because this would be frustrating to try to find without knowing things like this were happening.

I am an OCD collector.  This is very frustrating.  I guess it is time for me to quit collecting cards.   ;D ;D
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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2018, 04:21:15 PM »
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Most of the cards are effectively the same, just a different word or two.  Now I’ll be sending in a Mayhem and CoL to get those different versions.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2018, 04:26:41 PM »
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For a list of corrections made since the start of the print on demand service, you can refer to this post.

http://www.cactusforums.com/redemption-official-rules/errata-reworded-special-abilities/msg471512/#msg471512

I am not sure what other changes Gabe submitted beyond the Lost Soul names and the Martyr identifier for Peter.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Children of Light and Mayhem Replacement Program!!!
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2018, 10:52:08 PM »
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So I haven't done this yet... Does anyone know if Rob plans to have some of these at Nationals for swapping purposes?

EDIT: My bad. I left the thread open from a couple days ago so I would remember to reply so I didn't notice the other thread had been resurrected with an answer to my question.

 


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