Now, a word from our sponsor:
Do you have a headache caused by your opponents' pre-block ignore, super-protection, speed-drawing, and play abilities? Ask your deck doctor if this Iron (Pan) supplement is right for you. Combined with a diet of Babylonians, Iron Pan has been proven in laboratory tests to reduce the risk of losing due to common strategies such as ignore and protection.
Warning: Iron Pan may cause an unsafe drop in protection for your own cards. You should not use Iron Pan if you use are a Thaddeus user or may become a Thaddeus user. Do not use ignore cards in excess while Iron Pan is active, as Iron Pan may reduce the effectiveness of those cards.
wierd how the text doesnt cover up the iron pan.Made my day.
wierd how the text doesnt cover up the iron pan.It used to. I suggested to Rob that he move the special ability up above the pan and he agreed.
Funny thing is, this card will actually make babylonian characters MORE likely to be played. I dont think it will make a Pure bablyonian defense more popular, but having babylonina characters in your OWN defense is a good way to ensure that this card activates. Especially since a couple babylonian cards cannot be negated.
Nebby and Nergal anyone?
Nebby and Nergal anyone?
Nebby I can buy, but Nerg doesn't make much sense. What enhancements is he playing when Crimson is splashed?
I like the idea of the card, I just wonder if it will be able to be used effectively considering its clause and apparently all the new nazereth killers allowing captured arks to run free again. Personally the card feels like Confusion of Mind on steriods but with more restrictions on what you can play on offense and defense.
Nebby I can buy, but Nerg doesn't make much sense. What enhancements is he playing when Crimson is splashed?
anything crimson you splash with him. Put horses on him for the CBN draw and play first
Yeah, protects are EVERYWHERE in the game right now. Iron Pan (+1 Bab) shuts them all down.I like the idea of the card, I just wonder if it will be able to be used effectively considering its clause and apparently all the new nazereth killers allowing captured arks to run free again. Personally the card feels like Confusion of Mind on steriods but with more restrictions on what you can play on offense and defense.
This card makes Nazareth a normal green site.
I like the idea of the card, I just wonder if it will be able to be used effectively considering its clause and apparently all the new nazereth killers allowing captured arks to run free again. Personally the card feels like Confusion of Mind on steriods but with more restrictions on what you can play on offense and defense.
This card makes Nazareth a normal green site.
It's a very complicated card. Green/Babs is a match made in heaven, so at first glance it would seem that Iron Pan goes very well with them. However, it negates a lot of your own strategy: Horses (unless on Nerg), Headquarters, Obed's Caves, Hidden Treasures, Provisions, and Bel's Banquet. While that's not a particularly long list, there are some very important cards there.
Only the draw 2 part is negated. The really important part of Provisions still works regardless!
Let's keep in mind that this is just an artifact, so getting rid of it won't be that difficult.Depends on how dedicated you are. Magic Charms (on a magician), Lampstand (in a temple), Iron Pan (on Ezekiel), Unholy Writ (in High Priest Palace), and another random artifact on the artifact pile.
You do realize that Goshen won't protect anything. And neither will Lampstand, right?
three words...out of play.
Kerith ravine says set asides work but eveything else abides by game rules. out of play is basically inactive.
I think he was thinking type 2. In type 2 where 3 copies of Iron pan can exist, once you DoN one, you will basically have to deal with captured ark ro negating any art negaters played in battle. that is easy to deal with when you can activate so many artifacts.
I don't think so, but I think Daniel and his buds should be.If so, I anticipate a few Daniel/Prophets offenses in the coming year.
Paul had Roman citizenship.
Daniel and such were slaves taken from ther homelands.
Moses was also a slave before his adoption.
Paul had Roman citizenship.
Daniel and such were slaves taken from ther homelands.
Moses was also a slave before his adoption.
So we are setting parameters for citizenship? Joseph was made second in command of all of Egypt, yet he is not Egyptian. How exactly do we define "citizen?" Is it based on birth? If so, then we have citizenship issues here in America. ;)
Then perhaps the Romans think Saul was a Roman, but Paul was not.... ;)
Then I would argue the Egyptians considered Joseph an Egyptian, even if he was not originally from Egypt. He saved the nation and helped it prosper in its time of greatest need.
China has arguably saved America, or atleast helped in a time of need, is the Chinese government American?
So I must have my history mistaken. Was Paul not Jewish, or were there Jewish people that were not among the "conquered" people groups of Rome.
Also, I thought Roman was being defined as "from Rome," or was that just for sites?
All Jewish people were among the "conquered" people groups of Rome, but a considerably smaller group were granted Roman citizenship. It is because of his citizenship that he is considered roman.
As for the sites only being defined as "from Rome," that's because otherwise Nero would at the very least discard almost every N.T. site in the game and if the argument was accepted that if a place was ever under Roman control it would be "roman," he would discard near ever site that exists.
So bear with me here. As a host (or player), how will I know who was in the "smaller" group? Are all of the Pharisees Roman? How about the Sadducees? Is it only Paul?
All free male occupants of Tarsus in 66 BC were granted Roman citizenship, a status which was passed down to their descendents. So, as a host all you would need to do is check to see which other Pharisees and/or Sadducees had a father or patri-lineal grandfather from Tarsus. ;)All Jewish people were among the "conquered" people groups of Rome, but a considerably smaller group were granted Roman citizenship. It is because of his citizenship that he is considered roman.
So bear with me here. As a host (or player), how will I know who was in the "smaller" group? Are all of the Pharisees Roman? How about the Sadducees? Is it only Paul?
Paul is stated to be a Roman citizen.
All free male occupants of Tarsus in 66 BC were granted Roman citizenship, a status which was passed down to their descendents. So, as a host all you would need to do is check to see which other Pharisees and/or Sadducees had a father or patri-lineal grandfather from Tarsus. ;)
And FWIW, Joseph should be Egyptian.
Hey guys,
just got back from vacation and finally had a chance to examine the card in depth.
My first reaction was "Holy crap that's awesome, Babs will get some play again."
Then I thought about it a bit and realized something, this helps Disciples more then it hurts them because:
1. It allows AoCP to take out the opponent's entire defense (as mentioned in the article)
2. Without playing or searching Babylonians have no real way to get initiative (other then Ashpenaz and Nebushashban) so most characters can get initiative to play the aforementioned AoCP.
3. it doesn't hurt Disciples drawing, yes Matthew gets taken out, but Fishing boat and Pentecost are both unaffected (FB is in set aside and Pentecost is a set aside which means it can not be negated).
I think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.Well, what else are we supposed to do? Wildly speculate on the new set? I already do that...
I think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.Well, what else are we supposed to do? Wildly speculate on the new set? I already do that...
I predict that there is a broken deck in the next meta.
1. How do you know there isn't a low number bab in the new set?1. There's only one Bab, and he does jack squat with this card up
2. There are confirmations of lots of new Disciples / Thadd counters in the new set.
3. Drawing is OP regardless, and that won't change.
I think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.
I think it's really funny when people act all smug and don't consider the possibility that other people have set lists too ;D
I predict that there is a broken deck in the next meta....and not the one the playtesters expect.
+1'd. The current system seems unfair.I think it's really funny when people act all smug and don't consider the possibility that other people have set lists too ;D
I don't understand why so many people have the new set lists. If there are really that many people that know what all the new cards are going to be, why can't we all just have the list?
because there has to be some people that complain about not having it. ;)
because there has to be some people that complain about not having it. ;)
When I was 9 years old, my father told me the secret to being successful. He told me to pick one thing in life and try to do it better than anybody else.
I picked complaining.
1. How do you know there isn't a low number bab in the new set?1. There's only one Bab, and he does jack squat with this card up
2. There are confirmations of lots of new Disciples / Thadd counters in the new set.
3. Drawing is OP regardless, and that won't change.
I think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.
2. I know there are Thad counters, that's why I didn't mention him :P
3. That's exactly my point, giving Disciples the ability to nuke an opponents entire defense and shut down their (non-disciple) drawing at the cost of Thad is a very favorable trade
I think it's really funny when people act all smug and don't consider the possibility that other people have set lists too ;D
3. It's not just disciples, ET + AoCp, and the person who plays that will have their defense nuked too.Just curious, Smokey, how exactly do you think ET+AoCP is going to work with Iron Pan up? Just kinda push ET out there and hope you get inish?
When I was 9 years old, my father told me the secret to being successful. He told me to pick one thing in life and try to do it better than anybody else.Just quoting this to give other people something to agree with.
I picked complaining.
1. So you knew there was an inish card, but still complained they don't have one.1. I'll shut up if you can explain to me how this so called "inish" card counters James SoA, Granny Lois and Mephiboshem
2. But you mentioned disciples, which will be dead next set regardless.
3. It's not just disciples, ET + AoCp, and the person who plays that will have their defense nuked too.
4. No idea what you're talking about with drawing negation, but drawing will always be the best ability in the game while NJ is still around.
@ smug comment, see point 1.
Who says I have a set list?
Just curious, Smokey, how exactly do you think ET+AoCP is going to work with Iron Pan up? Just kinda push ET out there and hope you get inish?
I think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.
1. So you knew there was an inish card, but still complained they don't have one.These two statements make it pretty obvious, unless you're just blowing smoke. ::)
When I was 9 years old, my father told me the secret to being successful. He told me to pick one thing in life and try to do it better than anybody else.Just quoting this to give other people something to agree with.
I picked complaining.
I have a question, Iron Pan stop Nebuchadnezzar's "add to battle" ability?Nebuchadnezzar's ability is CBN if a Daniel Hero isn't in play.
When I was 9 years old, my father told me the secret to being successful. He told me to pick one thing in life and try to do it better than anybody else.Just quoting this to give other people something to agree with.
I picked complaining.
Wait, is this where I'm supposed to say, "I see what you did there?"
I get so confused. :scratch:
1. So you knew there was an inish card, but still complained they don't have one.1. I'll shut up if you can explain to me how this so called "inish" card counters James SoA, Granny Lois and Mephiboshem
2. But you mentioned disciples, which will be dead next set regardless.
3. It's not just disciples, ET + AoCp, and the person who plays that will have their defense nuked too.
4. No idea what you're talking about with drawing negation, but drawing will always be the best ability in the game while NJ is still around.
@ smug comment, see point 1.
Who says I have a set list?
2.(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.halolz.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2Fhalolz-dot-com-teamfortress2-nope.avi-obama-poster.jpg&hash=1b317c3ebf1ad75d7940da2a7784f492544ccbb9)
3.Just curious, Smokey, how exactly do you think ET+AoCP is going to work with Iron Pan up? Just kinda push ET out there and hope you get inish?
4. Lolwut? Drawing is OP, so if I can draw but you can't that's even more OP. and that's what this card does for DisciplesI think it's really funny when people try to place spoiled new cards into the current metagame and don't consider the possibility of what other new cards exsist.1. So you knew there was an inish card, but still complained they don't have one.These two statements make it pretty obvious, unless you're just blowing smoke. ::)
If I could give a single post multiple + 1s, I'd be here all night.I think it's really funny when people act all smug and don't consider the possibility that other people have set lists too ;D
I don't understand why so many people have the new set lists. If there are really that many people that know what all the new cards are going to be, why can't we all just have the list?
Then I thought about it a bit and realized something, this helps Disciples more then it hurts them because:
1. It allows AoCP to take out the opponent's entire defense (as mentioned in the article)
2. Without playing or searching Babylonians have no real way to get initiative (other then Ashpenaz and Nebushashban) so most characters can get initiative to play the aforementioned AoCP.
3. it doesn't hurt Disciples drawing, yes Matthew gets taken out, but Fishing boat and Pentecost are both unaffected (FB is in set aside and Pentecost is a set aside which means it can not be negated).
I don't understand why so many people have the new set lists. If there are really that many people that know what all the new cards are going to be, why can't we all just have the list?
I apologize to those of you who aren't part of that dishonest group and feel slighted that some people know things you don't.ಠ_ಠ
It did seem like quite a few people knew a lot more about the new set... I started to get the feeling that the majority knew, and the minority did not, when it should be the other way around o.OAlthough it does seem like more people found out about the new set than should have, it certainly was not a majority thing. Just a very vocal minority :)
I don't know what can be done to close Pandora's boxIt is harder for some of us to keep things secret than others. My situation is pretty ideal in a way because I have an isolated playgroup of which I am the only person who is active on the boards. And even here I don't playtest with everyone in my playgroup.
My concern is more about reprints of cards, or cards that make use of other cards. There is a sudden flurry of trading or selling of these cards from people in the know, at the expense of those not in the know.I hadn't observed this. Can you list a couple cards that you've seen trading more? It might have nothing to do with the new set at all.
My concern is more about reprints of cards, or cards that make use of other cards. There is a sudden flurry of trading or selling of these cards from people in the know, at the expense of those not in the know.
I'm okay with people playtesting the set...having a vocal minority flaunting (from my perception maybe not true) knowledge of the set can be frustrating especially knowing that other playgroups can keep it a secret.I think part of the problem is that it's entire playgroups know the set. It'd be much better if playtesters can keep the card knowledge within the playtester group by only playing other playtesters (and of course not showing lists). I understand this is difficult, but it's either that or select a few playgroups, not individuals that are extremely spread out everywhere except Arden Hills. If somebody would be able to put in the time to put each revisement up on RTS, that'd be fantastic, but it'd be a lot of work.
If somebody would be able to put in the time to put each revisement up on RTS, that'd be fantastic, but it'd be a lot of work.
If somebody would be able to put in the time to put eachrevisementrevision up on RTS, that'd be fantastic, but it'd be a lot of work.
It did seem like quite a few people knew a lot more about the new set... I started to get the feeling that the majority knew, and the minority did not, when it should be the other way around o.OAlthough it does seem like more people found out about the new set than should have, it certainly was not a majority thing. Just a very vocal minority :)
Off the current topic, but Iron Pan "negates all protect immune, draw, ignore, and play abilities"In a way, yes. They are in the same extended family, but they have different last names. Since we are targeting special abilities, we had to be specific.
Aren't Immune and Ignore already protect abilities?
I'm sure that's true, it just seemed like the majority of the consistently active board members knew more than the rest. Albeit not that a lot was revealed (to me anyway), but with the amount of people hinting that they had "special knowledge," made it seem like very few didn't have a card list. Again, I'm sure you are 100% right that it really is a minority, it just kind of felt the opposite. :)Just because someone hints that they know something, doesn't mean that they do. I'd bet that a good deal of the "edited by ROSES" jokes are just jokes, without any actual content to back them up. Also, it's really easy to talk smack once you've figured out what a few of the spoilers are either from playtester posts or the official articles.
Carry On,
-C_S
I'm sure that's true, it just seemed like the majority of the consistently active board members knew more than the rest. Albeit not that a lot was revealed (to me anyway), but with the amount of people hinting that they had "special knowledge," made it seem like very few didn't have a card list. Again, I'm sure you are 100% right that it really is a minority, it just kind of felt the opposite. :)Just because someone hints that they know something, doesn't mean that they do. I'd bet that a good deal of the "edited by ROSES" jokes are just jokes, without any actual content to back them up. Also, it's really easy to talk smack once you've figured out what a few of the spoilers are either from playtester posts or the official articles.
Carry On,
-C_S
For example, based on what I've seen leaked, I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a single NT card in this set. And if there are any, they're probably in the vast minority.
I don't know what can be done to close Pandora's boxIt is harder for some of us to keep things secret than others. My situation is pretty ideal in a way because I have an isolated playgroup of which I am the only person who is active on the boards. And even here I don't playtest with everyone in my playgroup.
It would be a lot harder for elders who are regularly playing only with people who are very active on the boards, or who have a hard time keeping things to themselves.My concern is more about reprints of cards, or cards that make use of other cards. There is a sudden flurry of trading or selling of these cards from people in the know, at the expense of those not in the know.I hadn't observed this. Can you list a couple cards that you've seen trading more? It might have nothing to do with the new set at all.
Why would they want to get rid of Iron Pan when it negates the opponents protection?