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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Topic started by: Jeremystair on February 14, 2018, 09:06:39 PM

Title: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Jeremystair on February 14, 2018, 09:06:39 PM
Quote
Gabe
Re: Falsely accused
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 07:00:42 PM »

When the time comes, if the game's leadership deams it appropriate, I will share footage and elaborate on multiple ways you've cheated so that people can be on the look out. While I believe it's a small minority who cheat, I'm not naive enough to think you're the first or only person. IMO, the best way to avoid this in the future is to inform the honest players so they can know what to look for.

Quote
soul seeker
Re: Falsely accused
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2017, 10:01:32 PM »

An update about the decision and video from Gabe...

"To say that the video we've been requested to release is the sole reason for the disqualification would be false, therefore we will not release the video out of context. When we release the video (which we have agreed to do) it will be part of the larger picture that led to the disqualification at Nationals. The footage will not be unedited but it will be unaltered.

This issue has already taken too much of my time and putting that together will take more of it, but I'll get to it as soon as I'm able. Thank you for your patience."

Will we be seeing the video this year?
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: uthminister [BR] on February 15, 2018, 11:35:21 AM
The videos have been up for a little while now. Find them on the Three Lions Gaming YouTube page here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rXmgLKEx1L7cr44M_kdyQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rXmgLKEx1L7cr44M_kdyQ)
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Jeremystair on February 16, 2018, 10:34:41 AM
The videos have been up for a little while now. Find them on the Three Lions Gaming YouTube page here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rXmgLKEx1L7cr44M_kdyQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rXmgLKEx1L7cr44M_kdyQ)

Thanks but I was referring to the unedited version where it allegedly shows JD cheating.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Gabe on February 16, 2018, 11:22:25 AM
If you're looking to see him cheat you can find what you want on the video that have already been released.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on February 16, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Quote
Gabe
Re: Falsely accused
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 07:00:42 PM »

When the time comes, if the game's leadership deams it appropriate, I will share footage and elaborate on multiple ways you've cheated so that people can be on the look out. While I believe it's a small minority who cheat, I'm not naive enough to think you're the first or only person. IMO, the best way to avoid this in the future is to inform the honest players so they can know what to look for.

Quote
soul seeker
Re: Falsely accused
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2017, 10:01:32 PM »

An update about the decision and video from Gabe...

"To say that the video we've been requested to release is the sole reason for the disqualification would be false, therefore we will not release the video out of context. When we release the video (which we have agreed to do) it will be part of the larger picture that led to the disqualification at Nationals. The footage will not be unedited but it will be unaltered.

This issue has already taken too much of my time and putting that together will take more of it, but I'll get to it as soon as I'm able. Thank you for your patience."

Will we be seeing the video this year?

I am not trying to stir anything up but can someone post or at least PM what he did I skimmed the video's and didn't really see anything but I am curious. 
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Reth on February 16, 2018, 01:04:41 PM
I'd also like to ask which is the video/are the videos in question? Watched the Type1 2 Player round 8 so far and the beginning of the Sealed Deck round 6. Within both no shuffling at the beginning of the game can be seen.

There is some shuffling to be seen in Type1 2 player round 8 - is this the one at which the situation is referred to? Some elaboration would be really appreciated even more (but I understand if it cannot / will not be given - but a hint which video is the one in question would be really nice).
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Reth on February 16, 2018, 01:20:42 PM
I'd also like to ask which is the video/are the videos in question? Watched the Type1 2 Player round 8 so far and the beginning of the Sealed Deck round 6. Within both no shuffling at the beginning of the game can be seen.

There is some shuffling to be seen in Type1 2 player round 8 - is this the one at which the situation is referred to? Some elaboration would be really appreciated (but I understand if it cannot / will not be given - but a hint which video is the one in question would be really nice).
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Daniel on February 16, 2018, 02:11:30 PM
As far as I know the videos that have been released still don't show the actual Sealed incident where JD allegedly cheated.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Reth on February 16, 2018, 02:35:46 PM
Ok, please nobody get me wrong - but how shall I find then the part where I can see the mentioned cheating?
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Sadness on February 16, 2018, 10:01:19 PM
The cheating incident I believe has been covered on another post and/or deleted.

What I'd like to see is video commentary on the other games that are posted.  I already got a good idea based off what I was able to hear.  Is there someone who can officiate the other games,please?
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Kevinthedude on February 16, 2018, 10:08:31 PM
The cheating incident I believe has been covered on another post and/or deleted.

Unless I missed something no video of the actual moment the cheating occurred has been released.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: uthminister [BR] on February 17, 2018, 12:25:43 AM
Can we get someone, with official insight into what happened, to point out specific time stamps and what happened at those points? I can see a few things that seem to be misplays but that is an admittedly optimistic interpretation.

Note from the guy who edited the videos and put them online (a.k.a. me): I intentionally left out all pregame shuffling. It was my call, not something I was told to do. I really did not see the point in showing it because each of us can watch JD shuffle and come to our own conclusions based almost purely on the preconceived notions we brought to the video. I for one was not present and was not in either JD's nor the judges's shoes. I trust the leadership who has been put in place to not only judge fairly but seek reconciliation when the dust settles. Pray for all involved to glorify God in the way we love, repent, and forgive.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Sadness on February 17, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
To uthminister...thanks for editing/putting the videos online. GBY
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: TheHobbit13 on February 17, 2018, 04:35:04 PM
I enjoyed watching the type 1- 2player final game. Pretty epic. Brutal hypocrisy that seemed to shift momentum away from Josh's FTML. I might just have to commentate that haha
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Crashfach2002 on February 17, 2018, 08:15:41 PM
Can we get someone, with official insight into what happened, to point out specific time stamps and what happened at those points? I can see a few things that seem to be misplays but that is an admittedly optimistic interpretation.

Note from the guy who edited the videos and put them online (a.k.a. me): I intentionally left out all pregame shuffling. It was my call, not something I was told to do. I really did not see the point in showing it because each of us can watch JD shuffle and come to our own conclusions based almost purely on the preconceived notions we brought to the video. I for one was not present and was not in either JD's nor the judges's shoes. I trust the leadership who has been put in place to not only judge fairly but seek reconciliation when the dust settles. Pray for all involved to glorify God in the way we love, repent, and forgive.

Travis,

I’m sure some will not like this answer, but am grateful you did it this way.  I have felt all along that people will choose to “see” (or not see) what they want to see based either on their personal opinions of JD or one/all of the elders.  This could quickly become a he said / she said, taking sides argument, that does nothing but divide this community.

Much respect!
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: Sadness on February 17, 2018, 09:14:52 PM
This might get me in hot water,but....

1st: a person is accused of cheating at last year's Nats.
2nd: said person had that dealt with by the elders and/or higher-ups?
3rd: whether there was/wasn't video evidence isn't our concern,the elders appointed have dealt with it.
4th: Rob, I believe , introduced a deck shuffling rule or rule change?
5th: If you want a video about the so-called card shuffle, might I propose that 3 lions gaming makes a video with someone to show how future players what the proper way is to shuffle card decks.

Bottom line.....let this cheating thing/video die.  You want something done. Then go, get on your knees before a Holy and Just Saviour and talk to Him about it. Cast this care upon Him and let it go.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: uthminister [BR] on February 17, 2018, 09:43:10 PM
This might get me in hot water,but....

1st: a person is accused of cheating at last year's Nats.
2nd: said person had that dealt with by the elders and/or higher-ups?
3rd: whether there was/wasn't video evidence isn't our concern,the elders appointed have dealt with it.
4th: Rob, I believe , introduced a deck shuffling rule or rule change?
5th: If you want a video about the so-called card shuffle, might I propose that 3 lions gaming makes a video with someone to show how future players what the proper way is to shuffle card decks.

Bottom line.....let this cheating thing/video die.  You want something done. Then go, get on your knees before a Holy and Just Saviour and talk to Him about it. Cast this care upon Him and let it go.

I like this idea. We may just do that.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: The Schaefer on February 17, 2018, 10:50:05 PM
This might get me in hot water,but....

1st: a person is accused of cheating at last year's Nats.
2nd: said person had that dealt with by the elders and/or higher-ups?
3rd: whether there was/wasn't video evidence isn't our concern,the elders appointed have dealt with it.
4th: Rob, I believe , introduced a deck shuffling rule or rule change?
5th: If you want a video about the so-called card shuffle, might I propose that 3 lions gaming makes a video with someone to show how future players what the proper way is to shuffle card decks.

Bottom line.....let this cheating thing/video die.  You want something done. Then go, get on your knees before a Holy and Just Saviour and talk to Him about it. Cast this care upon Him and let it go.

I like this idea. We may just do that.
I think more than anything having a specific guide of what can and can't be done on video would be good. There are plenty of ways to shuffle but overall there are also plenty of ways to "set up a deck" depending on how a shuffle is done so outlining what is not allowed better is probably the key.

In regards to the whole cheating issue I do not have the knowledge or expertise to discuss what actually occurred. I will say though that I believe in Redemption. Personally I don't care too much about whether cheating took place in the past. I care about the community including those on the Elder board and JD even with what limited interactions I've had with them. I think reconciliation between the two parties is the bigger issue at hand now and that lies with them. As for me just as a member of the redemption community were JD to return to play I would gladly embrace him as a brother in Christ and fellow player and wouldn't give a second thought to this whole debacle. I know many are still trying to vindicate JDs honor and I understand this viewpoint but I think that is a poor way to go about this issue. JD is a brother in Christ and as such is is vindicated and redeemed by Christ. In terms of the game the elders went with what they believe was the correct decision and I do not believe it to be a personal attack on JD or his honor. The elders have to try and maintain the integrity of the game and they made a tough call. I can't say whether it was right or wrong. I just empathize with JD. The elders saw something they considered cheating by JD and whether that was intentional by JD or not or just a misjudgment by the elders I can't say. But it happened and that cannot change.

I don't believe that the elders who made that call will suddenly have a change of heart and apologize and say they were wrong and apologize to JD over it. They took a tough stance on a tough issue and thought it out beforehand. They knew the potential backlash but made what they believe to be the best decision in that circumstance. I'm sorry if I'm ranting here but I really am tired of the line of discussion that seems toxic to the game and community to me.

Rather I want to see more discussions of support for our community. I want to see discussions of how to positively make a change in the game so something like this doesn't happen again and ambiguity is removed as best as possible. I want JD back and playing again as the great player and person we know him to be and not defined by this event. We all seem to be caught up in our emotions of who was right and how justice can prevail. But it's not about right or wrong or justice. It's about grace and forgiveness and understanding and unity in Christ. Let us not get lost and pit brother and against brother because of this event. Rather let us pray that understanding and peace be reached for all parties and that the blessings of our Lord and savior will be on Redemption and it's amazing community and we can show his glory in our lives, in gameplay, and in resolving issues like these how the Lord would see fit and not how a man would.

Sorry for the long post that is lacking better paragraph usage.
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: The Guardian on February 18, 2018, 12:54:10 AM
Really good post Joe, but I would like to clear one thing up--the decision was made by the judges, not the Elders. John and Gabe were the "elder judges" and were being assisted by Marcus (at the time not an Elder), Jay and I believe Chris Bany was consulted as the tournament director. Others on the Elder team (such as myself) were not involved in the decision.

To be clear, I neither agreed nor disagreed with the decision that was made. 
Title: Re: 2017 national video update?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on February 18, 2018, 10:48:51 PM
To be clear, I neither agreed nor disagreed with the decision that was made.

You could become a successful politician if you wanted. Just sayin'.  ;)
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