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I cannot express how much I LOATHE this schedule!  I am probably not going to be able to be there for all three days and I have to give up BOOSTER DRAFT?  Hasn't booster been on the last day traditionally?  If I can't do Booster I lose 50% of my reasons for even coming, and considering the investment maybe it would be better to skip Nationals altogether this year.  Not cool  .

What people fail to realize is that there is NO perfect Nats schedule.  There are just too many events that people want to play and too many different types of players.

The T2 lovers won't be happy unless their events are on different days, and that means that they have to share a day with either T1-2p or Booster, which makes them unhappy.  So T2 players are going to be upset no matter what schedule is used.

For that matter, NO EVENT wants to be on Friday with T1-2p, which means that whatever gets put that day will cause some complaints.

If people realize that there's no way to make everyone happy, then I think the best possible schedule would be:
Thur: TEAMS & Sealed (giving a multi-player and 2-player choice as well as a closed and open choice)
Fri: T1-2p & T2-mp (giving a multi-player and 2-player choice as well as offending the smallest category)
Sat: Booster & T2-2p & T1-mp (giving a multi-player and 2-player choice as well as a closed and open choice)

This puts the 3 biggest events (T1-2p, Booster, TEAMS) on different days.
It let's T1 players do both events.
It let's T2 players do both events.
It let's multi-player specialists do that all 3 days.
It lets 2-player specialists do that all 3 days.

Guess I can't argue that logic. Thanks for the explanation Rob! Now about that expansion set ....

i also like the logic behind that. now just to convince my significant other nats in new york is worth the hefty investment...

Quite a commute to Boston from NY.   

I liked this schedule:
Day 0: All the starting stuff
Day 1: Sealed and T1 Multi (boring events)
Day 2: T1-2P, T2-2P, and TA (standard events)
Day 3: Booster, TEAMS, and T2-MP (awesome events)
props to BubbleBoy. that and the 07 are the best ones. 07 is my favorite though.

Quote from: STAMP on March 29, 2010, 06:17:57 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on March 29, 2010, 06:08:35 PM

i also like the logic behind that. now just to convince my significant other nats in new york is worth the hefty investment...

Quite a commute to Boston from NY.   

my mistake, i meant boston. im in kansas city.

No problem.  Just stay away from those escalators.   

I liked this schedule:
Day 0: All the starting stuff
Day 1: Sealed and T1 Multi (boring events)
Day 2: T1-2P, T2-2P, and TA (standard events)
Day 3: Booster, TEAMS, and T2-MP (awesome events)
props to BubbleBoy. that and the 07 are the best ones. 07 is my favorite though.

Thanks. I see why it might be nice to have booster on Thursday so that players can get the new cards right away, but if you can't use them during the tournament anyway, I don't see a huge advantage there. It seems like it would be best to have booster on the last day like it's always been done. Also, mightn't you be able to use the new set with sealed deck?

Another schedule that might be good:

Thurs: All the starting stuff (1st time period), Sealed and T1 Multi (2nd time period)
Fri: T1-2P and TA-2P (1st time period), T2-2P and TEAMS (2nd time period)
Sat: Booster and T2-MP (1st time period), all the ending stuff (2nd time period)

This fills up all of three days, and presents very little conflict between events. There are multiplayer events in all but the T1-2P period, two-player events in all but the last time period, the least popular events are on the first day, T1-2P is on the main day, and Booster is on the last day. Something like this would make everyone happy, right?

Why can't everyone just appreciate the schedule that John M and Rob A. (and anyone else that may be involved)  came up with.  I don't think there going to change it at this point. 

By "at this point," do you mean "over four months away"?

If the schedule is set in stone, then I will say nothing more about this than that I do not like it very much at all.

Why can't everyone just appreciate the schedule that John M and Rob A. (and anyone else that may be involved)  came up with.  I don't think there going to change it at this point.

With all due respect, why can we not voice our concerns, some of us cannot be there on Thursday, and we want to be able to compete in the events we are "good" at.  If the schedule is set in stone it is what it is, I will no longer argue.  But the redemption community (especially Rob) have proven themselves to be flexible and committed to creating the best schedule for all.  We who are arguing are simply hoping there might be a more optimal arrangement.  There is absolutely no harm in requesting schedule changes.  Questioning their schedule is not equal to criticizing the people who made the schedule, we are simple voicing request's.  I have the highest respect for Rob and John, I just was hoping to be able to go, that is all.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 29, 2010, 06:31:48 PM

I liked this schedule:
Day 0: All the starting stuff
Day 1: Sealed and T1 Multi (boring events)
Day 2: T1-2P, T2-2P, and TA (standard events)
Day 3: Booster, TEAMS, and T2-MP (awesome events)
props to BubbleBoy. that and the 07 are the best ones. 07 is my favorite though.

Thanks. I see why it might be nice to have booster on Thursday so that players can get the new cards right away, but if you can't use them during the tournament anyway, I don't see a huge advantage there. It seems like it would be best to have booster on the last day like it's always been done. Also, mightn't you be able to use the new set with sealed deck?

Another schedule that might be good:

Thurs: All the starting stuff (1st time period), Sealed and T1 Multi (2nd time period)
Fri: T1-2P and TA-2P (1st time period), T2-2P and TEAMS (2nd time period)
Sat: Booster and T2-MP (1st time period), all the ending stuff (2nd time period)

This fills up all of three days, and presents very little conflict between events. There are multiplayer events in all but the T1-2P period, two-player events in all but the last time period, the least popular events are on the first day, T1-2P is on the main day, and Booster is on the last day. Something like this would make everyone happy, right?

T2-2P and T1-2P are the two longest events. outside of maybe Booster. there's no way that we can fit both in one day.

T2-2P and T1-2P are the two longest events. outside of maybe Booster. there's no way that we can fit both in one day.

Well, that could present a bit of a problem. In that case, I think I like my original schedule better. The '07 Nats schedule may have been the best option at the time, but you have to remember that we have a category (TEAMS) to fit in now that did not exist then, which makes things more complicated.

Quote

The only questionable thing that I see is putting TEAMS and T1-mp at the same time, as they are both multi-player events using T1 decks.

That's exactly why they should be paired together...

Personally, I'm not sure how wise it is to release the new set on the first day...it's going to give deck-checkers the extra challenge of making sure no one accidentally left a new card in one of their decks after a late night pick-up game for example.

Players add new cards to their decks anyways though, just to see if deck checkers can find um.

Hey,

I can think of two instances off the top of my head where the nationals schedule was changed because of player input, but I think in both cases it was changed for the next year not for the current year.  So it is definitely worth while to have this sort of discussion.

I am surprised to see Booster moved to Thursday.  Despite never playing in it, I've always thought it fit well on the last day of the tournament.  For the competitive players, it gave them time to see the new cards before they had to make decisions about building a deck with them.  For the casual players, Booster is a good chance to unwind and socialize in a less stressful environment after two long days of competition.  It also surprises me to see it switch with Sealed - 2 Player because in previous years it has been a requirement that Saturday events all be multi-player so that festivities can wrap up earlier on Saturday and people can get out of town if they need to.

The pairings become very interesting with the Booster change.  Unlike Type 1 - Multi, Type 2 - 2 Player should be able to get a respectable number of participants against Booster, but I'll be very curious to see how the Type 2 number is affected.  I expect that Booster will fail to outdraw T1-2P for the first time in several years.  We would finally get to see if there's a decent number of people interested in T1-MP now that it's not paired against Booster with new cards, except that it's now paired with Teams, which in many ways an improved variant of T1-MP.

Pairing T1-MP with Teams seems wrong to me.  It feels kinda like pairing T2-2P and T2-MP together.  Honestly, I kinda think we should drop T1-MP entirely.  My only hesitation to dropping it is that I don't know how Teams will go over at nationals (that is THE big unknown in all of this) and if T1-MP has a chance at a resurgence when not paired against booster.  If Teams does well and T1-MP does poorly this year I'll definitely be pushing strongly to not have a T1-MP event at nationals last year.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

yeah i was going to take like thursday off and go site seeing, but the changed it maybe i can skip sat and go.

T1-Multi is my favorite so I would be sad if it ever got the boot.  I will be playing it on saturday for sure.

I agree Korunks. I really dislike Teams as an official category.

Quote from: SirNobody on March 31, 2010, 03:09:54 PM

If Teams does well and T1-MP does poorly this year I'll definitely be pushing strongly to not have a T1-MP event at nationals last year.

Yea, I will always be pushing not to have a T1-MP event at nationals last year.

Kirk

Or any year

Quote from: Captain Kirk on April 01, 2010, 12:08:18 AM

Quote from: SirNobody on March 31, 2010, 03:09:54 PM

If Teams does well and T1-MP does poorly this year I'll definitely be pushing strongly to not have a T1-MP event at nationals last year.

Yea, I will always be pushing not to have a T1-MP event at nationals last year.

Kirk

Or any year

That would be said for those of us that like that category.   

Thank you for listening to our concerns and being gracious Rob!

Rob, thank you so much for listening to our concerns, as always. This is what makes Redemption awesome.

~Marti

Thank you guys for your willingness to flexible.  I know it is not required of you guys to listen to us, but it is so awesome that you do.  Keep being awesome and making Redemption awesome.  Kudos guys, Kudos.

Since T1-Multi and Boosters are NOT going on at the same time, do you all think that MASK can be revised?

If I end up coming, and if I decide to come on Thursday (unlikely), I will for sure be participating in MASK. I hate T-1 multiplayer altogether and would shed nary a tear if it were dropped, so playing spoiler is ftw.

Since T1-MP is taking place all by itself, I'd bet there could be a lot of MASK players willing to play this time around. I would definitely sign up to ruin speed decks in T1-MP if I were to go.