Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption® Official Tournaments => Topic started by: Crashfach2002 on April 04, 2015, 11:13:01 PM
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Hey guys,
Sorry for the long delay in me responding to anybody about Nationals. I have a 11 week old and a terrible schedule at work right now. But I wanted to follow up and see what the booster draft consisted of last year. I like to always give different options. I'll be created a poll to help us decide what I can do for the $15 fee, but I do want to at least offer what to offer the same one as last year!
Thanks,
Chris
***Alright guys the poll has been added, please pick your preference as to what you would want to see for booster at Nationals. If one of the ones with an option is chosen we can work it out at a later date!***
If I could also request that you only vote if you are seriously considering playing booster at Nationals. I don't want it skewed based on something you would like to have even though you aren't playing.
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20 Angel Wars
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20 Angel Wars
I was thinking about a little bit more variety, but if that is what the people want! :P
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Classic booster with one of the new set card boxes (assuming that's how Rob packages it again) included would be spectacular.
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but I do want to at least offer what to offer the same one as last year!
If I recall correctly, there was a generous donation made by Josiah Beers (and possibly some others, not sure) to include an extra pack in the draft (I think it was Kings packs) that was not originally going to be included.
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but I do want to at least offer what to offer the same one as last year!
If I recall correctly, there was a generous donation made by Josiah Beers (and possibly some others, not sure) to include an extra pack in the draft (I think it was Kings packs) that was not originally going to be included.
That is what Bany was saying, but he couldn't remember the original set. I'll just go over what I can afford for the $15 and put a poll on this thread and go from there!
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20 Angel Wars
I was thinking about a little bit more variety, but if that is what the people want! :P
why not 20 warriors?
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20 Angel Wars
I was thinking about a little bit more variety, but if that is what the people want! :P
why not 20 warriors?
I like it, but it may be a little hard to acquire . . .
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20 Angel Wars
I was thinking about a little bit more variety, but if that is what the people want! :P
why not 20 warriors?
I like it, but it may be a little hard to acquire . . .
And considering that TLG sells them $12 a pack, I don't believe that we could get 60 cards for $15!
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Its better than it used to be. They were once $15 a pack. 8)
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OK guys, I have the poll open for booster draft options. Please only vote if you are truly considering playing booster draft at Nationals, so this will only truly be voted on by the people who will be playing! Thanks guys!
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What will it be paired up against?
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I probably can't come but I'd be up for booster draft if I did. Since I'd like to give feedback I'll put my vote for option two in writing. Like I said I probably won't be there so this is just my two cents.
To be clear I did not vote in the poll.
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OK guys, I have the poll open for booster draft options. Please only vote if you are truly considering playing booster draft at Nationals, so this will only truly be voted on by the people who will be playing! Thanks guys!
Is there any chance we can get an option that includes the new set that Rob is releasing at Nationals?
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3 Boxes and Women???
YES PLEASE!
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TWENTY ANGEL WARS OR RITO
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I agree with Gabe that having the new set as part of the option is preferable.
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Obviously most people would want the new set but that depends on things outside of Chris's control. Do we have confirmation that the new set will be another set like disciples/TEC?
I would prefer option 1 or 5 because I like to have more packs to open and cards to work with in a draft. However, if I can make it then I could probably contribute some unlimited, prophets, and apostles packs to the draft and if a couple other people could do the same then we could add that to option 2 or 3 which would be even better imo.
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I voted for option two based off RDT's comment without looking carefully at the other option. I'd actually prefer option 3 (TEC DI TxP priests kings), though I'd prefer the new set be put in too.
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I would prefer to not have Womens packs in the draft pool. I am also willing to donate Prophets packs and/or Kings packs if an option that doesn't include them wins.
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I would prefer to not have Womens packs in the draft pool. I am also willing to donate Prophets packs and/or Kings packs if an option that doesn't include them wins.
I would prefer to not have angel wars considering how there wasn't a lot of good cards
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I would prefer to not have Womens packs in the draft pool.
Just out of curiosity, why not?
I am also willing to donate Prophets packs and/or Kings packs if an option that doesn't include them wins.
Guaranteeing that one of the non-Kings/Prophets options wins. ;)
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I kind of like having the Blue/Green packs but I also want womens.
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I would prefer to not have Womens packs in the draft pool.
Just out of curiosity, why not?
I'm also not a fan of Womens in booster. Increases the sites/deck, which I dislike for closed deck categories generally, but also puts Falling Away in play. Given the rarity and the number of people at Nats, that's probably a few floating around. Taking away a rescue is a HUGE advantage to those players, and I do not like it being around generally (also prefer Disciples to TexP to avoid Grapes/Mayhem).
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Excellent point about Grapes and Mayhem. I hadn't considered that. But with Disciples you add lots of sites and powerful ones at that...pick your poison there I guess.
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But with Disciples you add lots of sites and powerful ones at that...pick your poison there I guess.
5 sites in all of Disciples and 2 in TexP. Based on the number of cards received/available, it's not really that much larger odds of pulling sites, but you are infinitely more likely to draw dominants in TexP. Good trade-off IMO.
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I would prefer to not have Womens packs in the draft pool.
Just out of curiosity, why not?
I'm also not a fan of Womens in booster. Increases the sites/deck, which I dislike for closed deck categories generally, but also puts Falling Away in play. Given the rarity and the number of people at Nats, that's probably a few floating around. Taking away a rescue is a HUGE advantage to those players, and I do not like it being around generally (also prefer Disciples to TexP to avoid Grapes/Mayhem).
Mayhem isn't even the second best card in the set, and neither are as big a swing in booster as falling away.
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Mayhem isn't even the second best card in the set, and neither are as big a swing in booster as falling away.
This is very true, and why I don't necessarily mind TexP (just prefer Disciples), but absolutely oppose Womens in Booster.
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That's too bad. Womens is my absolute favorite set to draft with. There are so many quality cards in that set, it makes the draft a lot of fun.
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That's too bad. Womens is my absolute favorite set to draft with.
as said in your booster draft walkthrough video lol
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That's too bad. Womens is my absolute favorite set to draft with. There are so many quality cards in that set, it makes the draft a lot of fun.
I can see why after watching your video on LoR. When I saw you pull Falling Away my jaw nearly broke the floor heh heh.
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I believe the odds of getting a Falling Away in women is 1 out of 11 packs. Imagine my surprise when two of us had one at the same table!
The odds of a pulling either Grapes or Mayhem in TeXP is 1 out of 12 packs. If drawn and played well, any of those 3 Dominants has a strong potential to impact the game by 1 Redeemed Soul.
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I believe the odds of getting a Falling Away in women is 1 out of 11 packs. Imagine my surprise when two of us had one at the same table!
The odds of a pulling either Grapes or Mayhem in TeXP is 1 out of 12 packs. If drawn and played well, any of those 3 Dominants has a strong potential to impact the game by 1 Redeemed Soul.
Only one is actually near-guaranteed to influence the game by 1 Redeemed Soul. Mayhem is just 'really really good' not game-breaking in closed format.
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Mayhem is just 'really really good' not game-breaking in closed format.
Mayhem is Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr or Harvest Time, whatever you need it to be, you just need to use it correctly. It's probably the most diverse Dominant in the game.
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Mayhem is just 'really really good' not game-breaking in closed format.
Mayhem is Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr or Harvest Time, whatever you need it to be, you just need to use it correctly. It's probably the most diverse Dominant in the game.
Its way way weaker than AoTL or CM in booster. Its about on par with Harvest time.
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I prefer people have Mayhem/Grapes over Falling Away in a booster game. The first two force the player to be strategic in their use (playing them offensively/defensively) whereas Falling Away is just a "wait til someone is going for #5 and drop it" play.
I enjoy drafting with Womens but the extra cost is something to consider. $4 retail for 8 cards is just not as good a deal as $5 retail for 15 cards in a box pack.
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Falling Away is a counter card. It doesn't directly help you, it merely hurts others. It doesn't help you win the game, it just prolongs it. Now, you can make the connection that hurting others helps you (one of my main philosophies when playing games), but ultimately, cards that directly benefit your victory will be better.
Unholy Writ falls into a similar category, but is more easily countered, particularly because it's on the table for everybody to see.
However, this is all speaking about Falling Away as a general card. In the case of multiplayer, it's considerably more situational. Somebody has to be beating you. If not, then there's little reason to play it (the exception being if you're tying up players so that there is a more even point spread, which may benefit you in the long run, but is unlikely in a large tournament). If you are losing, then you can gain momentum by preventing somebody from winning. However, if there's somebody that is also at 4 who goes before you (or else you yourself are not at 4), then the momentum is short lived, as generally somebody has just expended their defense or has no defense, and the final soul is easily won since everybody is going after the same person (which is likely).
That's not to say Falling Away isn't powerful--it's certainly the most powerful stall card in booster draft--but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's broken, or the most powerful card in booster draft.
Mayhem is far more active and versatile. It can function as a stall card as well. Suppose somebody is going for their last soul and the opponent can't block it. Simply give them a better hand. Wanting to go for your fifth, but somebody just rescued the shuffler? Easy soul gen. Opponent blocked and asked for initiative? You've seen their hand and know they can beat you, so let's get rid of that Death of Unrighteous... Need more resources? Mayhem, Mayhem, Mayhem. Card is so good, especially in multiplayer, where there are higher odds of hitting soul generation. It's easily the most versatile card.
Grapes is whatever. Good, but situational. There's a good chance that the situation will arise, but again, often times there will be three people at four lost souls and the opponent gets to rescue again.
And everybody has the same chance at getting these dominants. Additionally, Guardian of your Souls is fairly readily available if you are concerned about Falling Away.
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Falling Away is definitely better in booster than Grapes or Mayhem, but that's not even the point I'd make if I didn't want to boost with Women packs (I actually like drafting with Womens). The point I'd make is that Falling Away feels much more unfair if you are the recipient than Grapes or Mayhem ever do.
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Has anyone ever tried a booster with Option 2? With only 53 cards, you can only miss on 10 before you need useless filler to build a legal deck. And with 5 TEC and 3 Angel Wars cards, there's potential for a lot of misses, since Clay and Silver dominate the good side of those packs and receive little (or no) support in the other cards. It might need some testing - maybe via Lackey Booster? - first.
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Has anyone ever tried a booster with Option 2? With only 53 cards, you can only miss on 10 before you need useless filler to build a legal deck. And with 5 TEC and 3 Angel Wars cards, there's potential for a lot of misses, since Clay and Silver dominate the good side of those packs and receive little (or no) support in the other cards. It might need some testing - maybe via Lackey Booster? - first.
This is a very good point.
Change my vote to the third one. Womens has committed crimes against value town.
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Has anyone ever tried a booster with Option 2? With only 53 cards, you can only miss on 10 before you need useless filler to build a legal deck. And with 5 TEC and 3 Angel Wars cards, there's potential for a lot of misses, since Clay and Silver dominate the good side of those packs and receive little (or no) support in the other cards. It might need some testing - maybe via Lackey Booster? - first.
Assuming that the Tournament Host Guide is correct, the packs used in a booster draft must contain at least 54 cards, making that option one short. Another pack will need to be added to make it legit.
Players look at the cards they drafted and have ten minutes to assemble a deck. Each player will have at least 54 cards and are allowed to remove cards if they wish.
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I originally voted for option 4, but after further review, I believe I also like option 3.
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I think that's less a rule, and more a consequence of these:
Players do not receive starter decks. Instead they each start with at least six booster packs (one each from available expansion sets).
1. Players build their decks from at least six expansion packs of cards. Each player is given one of each type of booster from six expansion sets as determined by the host.
Unlimited, Prophets, Women, any 3 other foil packs = 54 cards. Anything else can only increase the total.
That also technically makes Options 3 and 4 short on packs, but you could argue 2 Boxes = 3 Packs.
I suspect it needs to shift from at least 6 packs to at least X cards - Tins have 56, as a starting point. Maybe 55 for 3 Boxes + 1 10-Pack. Maybe 60 cards or a Tin, since the Tins are internally cohesive. But that's another discussion.
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That's too bad. Womens is my absolute favorite set to draft with. There are so many quality cards in that set, it makes the draft a lot of fun.
+1, for the reasons Gabe stated.
Maybe surprisingly, I have found Angel Wars to be a close second to Womens in terms of the amount of flavor it adds to a draft. The knowledge that you will have an (almost?) assured second good brigade in silver adds to the strategy of the drafting/deck building portion of the game. And, as others have pointed out, in general the cards (including the silver hero) are not all that good so you do not unbalance game.
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I have suggested to Chris that we try out some of these options at our next tournaments and play test them. I'll vote after some trial runs...I understand the caution using Womens, Txp and Disciples...but always a nice pull if you get one of those Doms.
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So a slight change. I have added the unlimited pack to option 2 to get enough cards to qualify. I have also modified the poll so you can revote since there had been a lot of discussion an people thinking about changing their minds.
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Two things:
1) Cactus does not have the inventory to supply Women packs (I am almost out). So, unless you already have a good supply of Women packs or know where you can get them, Women should not be offered as part of the mix.
2) It is my goal to have a new set similar to Early Church & Disciples release at Nationals. That card box could take the place of TeP or Disciples. However, the set is still under development & playtesting. The work continues. :)
Whatever happens, I am looking forward to seeing many of you in Knoxville and playing in booster draft again.
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Two things:
1) Cactus does not have the inventory to supply Women packs (I am almost out). So, unless you already have a good supply of Women packs or know where you can get them, Women should not be offered as part of the mix.
2) It is my goal to have a new set similar to Early Church & Disciples release at Nationals. That card box could take the place of TeP or Disciples. However, the set is still under development & playtesting. The work continues. :)
Whatever happens, I am looking forward to seeing many of you in Knoxville and playing in booster draft again.
Hey Rob,
Sorry about any confusion. I have enough of every pack listed above to do which ever booster we decide to do. As far as another box is concerned, if it is released in time for Nationals and everyone wants to use them I'll obviously have to get those from you!
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New set?
I wonder if he means either a) like tin #26 or b) like warriors 150 cards set. Guess we'll see at Nats. On the doms, Mayhem can sometimes be seen as a 'just annoy the fire out of you' card. Depending on how it gets played that is.
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Falling Away is a counter card. It doesn't directly help you, it merely hurts others. It doesn't help you win the game, it just prolongs it. Now, you can make the connection that hurting others helps you (one of my main philosophies when playing games), but ultimately, cards that directly benefit your victory will be better.
Unholy Writ falls into a similar category, but is more easily countered, particularly because it's on the table for everybody to see.
However, this is all speaking about Falling Away as a general card. In the case of multiplayer, it's considerably more situational. Somebody has to be beating you. If not, then there's little reason to play it (the exception being if you're tying up players so that there is a more even point spread, which may benefit you in the long run, but is unlikely in a large tournament). If you are losing, then you can gain momentum by preventing somebody from winning. However, if there's somebody that is also at 4 who goes before you (or else you yourself are not at 4), then the momentum is short lived, as generally somebody has just expended their defense or has no defense, and the final soul is easily won since everybody is going after the same person (which is likely).
That's not to say Falling Away isn't powerful--it's certainly the most powerful stall card in booster draft--but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's broken, or the most powerful card in booster draft.
Mayhem is far more active and versatile. It can function as a stall card as well. Suppose somebody is going for their last soul and the opponent can't block it. Simply give them a better hand. Wanting to go for your fifth, but somebody just rescued the shuffler? Easy soul gen. Opponent blocked and asked for initiative? You've seen their hand and know they can beat you, so let's get rid of that Death of Unrighteous... Need more resources? Mayhem, Mayhem, Mayhem. Card is so good, especially in multiplayer, where there are higher odds of hitting soul generation. It's easily the most versatile card.
Grapes is whatever. Good, but situational. There's a good chance that the situation will arise, but again, often times there will be three people at four lost souls and the opponent gets to rescue again.
And everybody has the same chance at getting these dominants. Additionally, Guardian of your Souls is fairly readily available if you are concerned about Falling Away.
Considering Falling Away in multiplayer with weaker players with no defence. You fall away a LS from the good player so it is returned to the weaker player for you to swoop in and rescue because his defences are shot from the other player taking it. Can definitely be a powerful help.
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Two things:
1) Cactus does not have the inventory to supply Women packs (I am almost out). So, unless you already have a good supply of Women packs or know where you can get them, Women should not be offered as part of the mix.
2) It is my goal to have a new set similar to Early Church & Disciples release at Nationals. That card box could take the place of TeP or Disciples. However, the set is still under development & playtesting. The work continues. :)
Whatever happens, I am looking forward to seeing many of you in Knoxville and playing in booster draft again.
OOOOO I wanna help playtest. Me help, Me help.
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OOOOO I wanna help playtest. Me help, Me help.
We're play testing at my house tomorrow night. You're welcome to come over if you're not busy.
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FWIW, just getting to this thread, and I fully endorse option 2 provided there are enough Women's packs available. Falling Away is game-changing, but so are plenty of other cards in the format (Unholy Writ is one, as mentioned previously; The Strong Angel in a draft with Angel Wars is another). Booster is a funny game, so regardless of how the draft goes or who gets what, there are too many variables to say that any one card can give a surefire advantage to a player.
As an example, at MN State, I had an AMAZING draft, that I firmly believe could have done reasonably well at a T12P local if I was able to add a few doms. I figured the only way I could lose was soul drought. Well, the first game, I drew only 2 of my 12 Heroes in the first 5 turns, and no enhancements for either, and the guy who got his early Ishmaiah and Adam walked through for 4 before I got 1, and ended up winning a few rounds later.
Back to the original topic, I have always had more fun in Booster with Women packs, primarily BECAUSE of the tension provided by a potential FA. Knowing that going for your fifth with a near surefire attack might not be the end is part of the fun. I agree that Sites are not fun to go against, but on the flipside, if you draft a bunch of sites, you're drafting wrong. They are a part of the game, and must be dealt with as in all other types.
It looks like the Priests/Kings option is still in the lead, and that would definitely be my second choice, so I'll be happy either way, but I'll hold out hope that perhaps some people will reconsider their aversion to Women packs, and vote for that option.
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As much as I actually do like drafting with womens (though FA is still a pretty stupid card for booster (well really for all categories but especially booster)), but I'd always rather have kings AND priests over women and unlimited. For one its more cards, and for two, unlimited is a pretty low priority pack to draft with.
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All of the drafts I've been testing with Priests have been fairly lackluster at best. I'm pretty sure I will not choose a Priest pack ever again.
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All of the drafts I've been testing with Priests have been fairly lackluster at best. I'm pretty sure I will not choose a Priest pack ever again.
I've found Priests to be decently legit when drafting with multiple box packs (like that option has here) and especially with EC packs, because those packs actually have teal in them (and Early Church has those tin teal cards). In any case, its still far better than drafting with unlimiteds.