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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption® Official Tournaments => Topic started by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 24, 2010, 07:08:22 PM

Title: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 24, 2010, 07:08:22 PM
We need a rule check on Disqualifications.  My deck accidentally became illegal Mid-game (Due to Haman's Plot and 2 other cards).  Obviously that disqualified me from the game, but does that disqualify me from the entire tournament?

-C_S  :(
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: TechnoEthicist on July 24, 2010, 07:34:14 PM
What tournament? Did they tell you that with HP you would be illegal? What is the exact scenario?
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 24, 2010, 07:37:46 PM
What tournament? Did they tell you that with HP you would be illegal? What is the exact scenario?

It's a local tourney.  Mid-game, I realized that I had multiple copies of 2 Dominants (52 card deck).  This brought my deck total to 50 cards.  Upon using HP, my deck total then dropped to 49 cards, thus making it officially illegal.  I DQ'd that game, but does that type of thing DQ me for the whole tournament?

-C_S
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: Michael_of_the_Star on July 24, 2010, 07:47:57 PM
That is a interesting that happen. Although it didn't happen to us in CA, but I think you are disqualified for that category, therefore, you are still be able to participate in other categories. Tourney Judges, please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 24, 2010, 08:00:02 PM
That is a interesting that happen. Although it didn't happen to us in CA, but I think you are disqualified for that category, therefore, you are still be able to participate in other categories. Tourney Judges, please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you.

Yeah, one of the reasons I messed up was that I switched decks between categories and seeing as I only have single copies of certain Doms with me, I accidentally put in a second SoG instead of NJ.  Also, I put in a second AotL by mistake because I did have 2 of those and the artwork was different (Plus, I didn't pay enough attention... Rookie mistake I suppose.)

We're in the final category, and there's only 3 of us in the tourney, so if I'm DQ'd from the category, it's no big deal to me haha.

**UPDATE: The other rounds have finished and since we haven't received an Elder/Rulebook Ruling, I will have to forfeit since I don't have a side-deck registered. Still interested to have a ruling on this though.**

-C_S
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: sk on July 24, 2010, 08:29:03 PM
If you had 50 cards post-illegal doms, you can still play the game that HP gets ripped, the deck is simply not legal for any other games in that category after that.  With only 3 of you, you might need to forfeit a game, depending on the number of rounds and how you are playing.

The host/judge can decide whether to DQ you for the illegal dominants, as a deck checker should have caught that, and it wasn't intentional.  Depends on them, though.  With it being a small tourney, if you are the host, it probably would be most honorable to bow out.  (That's why it is good to have a judge that isn't playing in that category.)
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: Michael_of_the_Star on July 24, 2010, 08:42:16 PM
I remember, one time I was playing, because the previous game has two of the same color protector, the next round started, but I was missing three lost souls, and I didn't find out, therefore I won the game. Later when my judge find out, he allowed me to put back the souls and play again, then I lost. So he didn't DQ me, but allow us to restart a game it was because in our last game, the finalist played early, so we have time to play more. That is all. Thank you.

ML.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: The Schaef on July 24, 2010, 09:06:12 PM
Any games you played with a legal deck should count.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: CactusRob on July 25, 2010, 09:42:07 AM
We need a rule check on Disqualifications.  My deck accidentally became illegal Mid-game (Due to Haman's Plot and 2 other cards).  Obviously that disqualified me from the game, but does that disqualify me from the entire tournament?

-C_S  :(
From p. 11 of the Tournament Guide
At the conclusion of each game within a match a player may ask a referee or a judge to re-check an opponent’s deck for legality. If the deck is found to be illegal in any way, the player automatically forfeits the game. (NOTE: If the judge feels the illegal deck was non-deliberate/unintentional, the judge may decline the forfeiture and call for a rematch. If a rematch is called for, the player must make his deck legal and then take one lost soul from his deck and give it to his opponent to place in his opponent’s land of redemption. The opponent will start will one redeemed lost soul advantage.) Furthermore, if a rematch game would, in the opinion of the judge, be too disruptive to the tournament schedule, the judge may choose to award any lost soul cards missing from the player’s deck to the opponent’s final score for that game.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 25, 2010, 09:45:52 AM
Josh, you guys should have called me. I could have helped you out. Jonathan and Andrew should still have my phone number.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 25, 2010, 10:13:27 AM
From p. 11 of the Tournament Guide
At the conclusion of each game within a match a player may ask a referee or a judge to re-check an opponent’s deck for legality. If the deck is found to be illegal in any way, the player automatically forfeits the game. (NOTE: If the judge feels the illegal deck was non-deliberate/unintentional, the judge may decline the forfeiture and call for a rematch. If a rematch is called for, the player must make his deck legal and then take one lost soul from his deck and give it to his opponent to place in his opponent’s land of redemption. The opponent will start will one redeemed lost soul advantage.) Furthermore, if a rematch game would, in the opinion of the judge, be too disruptive to the tournament schedule, the judge may choose to award any lost soul cards missing from the player’s deck to the opponent’s final score for that game.
Thank you for that.  I personally didn't know about the tournament guide haha. I'll remind our local hosts to review it.
Any games you played with a legal deck should count.
Ok, but it went illegal in the first round and I didn't know what to do, so I forfeited the category because I hadn't legally won/lost any type 1 2-player matches.  We did count my multiplayer games because I had used a different deck.  Thank you for letting me know that part though.   -C_S
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 25, 2010, 10:16:46 AM
Josh, you guys should have called me. I could have helped you out. Jonathan and Andrew should still have my phone number.
J & A had mentioned that we should call you... I guess I was a little shocked that this whole thing even happened.  -C_S
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: lightningninja on July 25, 2010, 05:58:37 PM
It seems to me that this is a problem with the judge/deck checker. Two of the same dominant should have DEFINITELY been noticed, especially Son of God. I would have thought the same thing as you did with no knowledge of any tournament rules.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 25, 2010, 06:51:32 PM
It seems to me that this is a problem with the judge/deck checker.

They were too busy trash talking....  ;)

"I had to get permission from my parole officer just to be at this tournament today."
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 25, 2010, 07:39:25 PM
It seems to me that this is a problem with the judge/deck checker.

They were too busy trash talking....  ;)

"I had to get permission from my parole officer just to be at this tournament today."

Lol...  More like:

"I'm gonna win; even if it means I get 5 to 10!"  Just kidding.

Well, Jon said he'd scrutinize the decks a little harder, especially the Doms, after what happened.

-C_S
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: Ironica on July 25, 2010, 08:31:03 PM
On page 10 on the tournament guide, it gives a list of order that each player "must have their deck organized." Mayby next time they can follow this guide so it won't happen again.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 25, 2010, 10:52:35 PM
On page 10 on the tournament guide, it gives a list of order that each player "must have their deck organized." Mayby next time they can follow this guide so it won't happen again.
my deck was in the correct order, I just didn't double check the cards.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 26, 2010, 03:43:10 PM
my deck was in the correct order, I just didn't double check the cards.

The point is that the host/judge should have checked the deck. You should never be the only one who checks your own deck. Whatever you missed the first time, you will likely miss the second time. A different person is more likely to notice what you did not. It's like doing crossword puzzles. You could sit there for hours and never get a certain one, but someone else will walk by and spout out the answer on the first try.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: Prof Underwood on July 26, 2010, 03:50:24 PM
The point is that the host/judge should have checked the deck. You should never be the only one who checks your own deck.
+1 If there aren't enough people to have a non-playing human judge, then simply let each person check the deck of the person on their right.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: CactusRob on July 26, 2010, 06:26:00 PM
In my experience missed items during deck check-in do not create most of the problems.  Rather, problems arise when players gather up cards that don't belong to them at the end of the game.  For this reason, it is very important that each player stay with their opponent and review their deck after each game.  At the very least you should recount your cards after each game to make sure you have the same count as when you started.
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 26, 2010, 07:39:15 PM
The point is that the host/judge should have checked the deck. You should never be the only one who checks your own deck.
+1 If there aren't enough people to have a non-playing human judge, then simply let each person check the deck of the person on their right.
that's what we basically did, and unfortunately, both of us missed the obvious. We're going to be a lot more careful from now on. -C_S
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 26, 2010, 07:47:40 PM
In my experience missed items during deck check-in do not create most of the problems.  Rather, problems arise when players gather up cards that don't belong to them at the end of the game.  For this reason, it is very important that each player stay with their opponent and review their deck after each game.  At the very least you should recount your cards after each game to make sure you have the same count as when you started.
Those are some great and important tips! We've had those kinds of problems many a time in our casual games, even with very different colored sleeves! Thankfully I haven't encountered it during a tourney; although I am thankful this situation only occured at the local level!  Thanks everyone for your thorough and helpful responses to this situation!  -C_S
Title: Re: EMERGENCY RULING NEEDED Tournament In Session
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 26, 2010, 07:52:18 PM
If it happens again, you will have to walk the plank of a Cutter.
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