If we can figure out what we are going to do with the kids, (Simon is 4 weeks old already, and Evan is 3!) then we will try and come. It would be great to see everyone!
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FASlunFlb.jpg&hash=202de48bebd0d5b596725473ef5959592e75b517) (https://imgur.com/ASlunFl)
If we can figure out what we are going to do with the kids, (Simon is 4 weeks old already, and Evan is 3!) then we will try and come. It would be great to see everyone!
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FASlunFlb.jpg&hash=202de48bebd0d5b596725473ef5959592e75b517) (https://imgur.com/ASlunFl)
I love you, Tyler.* :amen:
*In a manly, platonic kind of way.
You absolutely can, but now you are potentially diluting all of fields on that day on the least attended day. I would probably play T2 MP that day, but why T2MP over T1MP on that day? If you are eliminating 1 category, that helps, but 2 might need to go for an ideal schedule. I will agree with you about sealed not being fun because those decks have been out for so many years, so I would not mind that category gone, but that is a decent money maker for the host. If you do all 3 you take away around 12 players from the field of teams/sealed, but this also offers an opportunity for people to leave early if they are hitting the road. I am not against 3 categories on Saturday, but that is tough to balance all 3 categories in a timely fashion on the day that tends to end slightly earlier.
If you are not going to have them played at Nationals, you may as well just remove the multiplayer as official categories and make it clear that Redemption is strictly a two player game.
And since last year there were as many T1-MP players as there were people playing T2-2P, and only two more people played TEAMS, maybe we should just stick with the most popular events and do...
Thursday: Booster
Friday: T1-2P/Type A
Saturday: Sealed
I know there aren't a lot of total players but has it ever been considered to have the National Tournament for T1 and T2 separate from each other?
Emjaybee-I guess I don't understand what you mean by "lesser played categories." Going back 10 years T2-2P has lower attendance than Sealed every single year (usually by large margins). Yet you said you would be fine with killing sealed. T2-2P has topped T1-MP player count twice in the past 10 years. On this T1-2P and T2-2P were separated in 2017 and T2-2P had fewer players (24) than both Sealed (28) and T1-MP (26) even though those two events were scheduled against each other on Saturday.
To compare type 2 to other lesser played categories isn’t even fair. My entire post is about maximizing type 1 2P. Obviously the most popular category, and easiest to get into, is T1 2P and that goes up against T2 2P every year, naturally there are going to be way less people playing. Take the number of players from the only nationals where they were split and you’ll hopefully see a more accurate representation.
It just kind of stinks to have category termination tied to the tournament that should be focused on celebrating the 25th Anniversary of the games.
I like Kors list but would consider flipping booster multi with t2 multi
Please check the first 2 posts as I have finally been able to add some information for you guys!Hey Chris, I think you have a miscalculation in your goals...
3) Free meal plan (This will include Breakfast and Lunch) $600$5 x 6 x 100 = $3000.
I figure about $5 a meal x 6 for 100 people.
Please check the first 2 posts as I have finally been able to add some information for you guys!Hey Chris, I think you have a miscalculation in your goals...3) Free meal plan (This will include Breakfast and Lunch) $600$5 x 6 x 100 = $3000.
I figure about $5 a meal x 6 for 100 people.
I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but it is better to catch this early rather than ending up having you potentially out $2400.
Do you have a specific list of cards you're willing to sell to reach the goals?
math is hardd
math is hardd
math is hardd
As I always like to say, there are three types of people in this world: Those who are good at math, and those who aren’t.
Do we have an idea of when the tournament schedule will be finalized?
Do we know what the promos for the winners are?A new car! (If Chris can find a sponsor.)
I would prefer not to have evil cards as winner promos.
Just seems a little odd to me to have an evil promo for rescuing the most Lost Souls.
I believe that 2016 had the best art for AotL 8) 8) 8) 8) I love that art borderless
Dude my man I was at the T2 only and plus it was only an opinion I was saying because it works best with the sleeves I have I am sorry if I offended you but saying some on is wrong hurts a bit. I just wanted to share an opinion. ( btw I was 6 foot brown hair and played the combo deck w/ Palestine.
Dude my man I was at the T2 only and plus it was only an opinion I was saying because it works best with the sleeves I have I am sorry if I offended you but saying some on is wrong hurts a bit. I just wanted to share an opinion. ( btw I was 6 foot brown hair and played the combo deck w/ Palestine.
He was just messing with you man ;)
He was making fun of people on the internet (not you) who get uptight about subjective topics (i.e. which AotL art is best?) that don't have a "right" or "wrong" answer. 8)
Right, and some light pokes at EmJayBee's style of clarification and thoroughness.Hey! I resemble that remark!
I know this is a dumb question, but is preregistration possible this year? If so, I'd like to do it.
Will the new participant promos be tournament legal at Nats? Meaning once you receive a set for completing a category can you put then in your deck for the next one?
If you voted for 2 player booster then you are a Liberal. Change my mind.
Even though I abhor our 'PC' culture, yes, our posts were joking. You could easily swap liberal for the other side and it could still work (maybe even more so). ;)
I made my stance on 2p vs Mp booster some time ago, so I won't go digging that up. It's just a shame that my favorite category is being warped into something else. But I won't make a big deal out of it if the majority leans that way. If both were offered it would be perfect, but I'm not too interested in making the trip to nats to play something I don't enjoy. :2cents:
If you voted for 2 player booster then you are a Liberal. Change my mind.
If you voted for 2 player booster then you are a Liberal. Change my mind.
Jehoshaphat....Imo, 2-player booster is better when there are inexperienced players in the field, and multi boost is better when everyone knows what to do (and can remember what to do Ryan). If that doesn't change your mind I'll your dip your Leviathan collection in Tartaros sauce and make you eat it.
Alright everyone,
We have some big news I meant to present before today, but at least it is here now. We want to see what you want to do during our Type 1 day on Friday. There are multiple ideas on what can be done, but want to give everyone a voice and have them discuss what they would like to do and get a feel for people for people who have dealt with the current ideas. So we have 5 ideas for how we could finish out they Type 1 tournament.
1) X rounds of Swiss, just like was done before we started top cut, and what every non-National tournament uses.
2) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people. This is what we have done currently.
3) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, but finish on Saturday. This is basically the way we play now but the difference would be that this allows the people who top cut to unwind, relax, sleep and recharge before playing the most important and possibly stressful games the next day.
4) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, play best 2/3 on Saturday. So this continues the opportunity to allow the top cut people to sleep and refocus, but allows us to implement the 2 out of 3 system. This would have to go to the next day due to the amount of time it would take.
5) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, play double elimination on Saturday. This was a brand new idea that we liked and wanted to see what others thought. Again, it gives everyone a chance to sleep and rest, then allows at least 2 games per person that top cut, and allows them to have "one off game" and still have a chance to win.
The real question for me is if we do a 2day option does it mean who ever makes it cant play in Saturday's categories or will it take place before
I feel like this is a good thing.The real question for me is if we do a 2day option does it mean who ever makes it cant play in Saturday's categories or will it take place before
The 2 day options would basically take all day Saturday, so those that play in top cut couldn't play the other categories.
Why can't top cut go until 11pm on Friday night with (option #4)? All the people that make top cut stay up late anyways and go out to eat. Then they can play on Saturday. If you want to extend it to Saturday it should be double elimination AND 2/3 right?
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.This is exactly what I meant. I like the 2 day options just not the potential forfeiting a 3rd category. You would pretty much be telling those who do good Friday "you did good now you get to play less"
In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.This is exactly what I meant. I like the 2 day options just not the potential forfeiting a 3rd category. You would pretty much be telling those who do good Friday "you did good now you get to play less"
In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.This is exactly what I meant. I like the 2 day options just not the potential forfeiting a 3rd category. You would pretty much be telling those who do good Friday "you did good now you get to play less"
In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
@Cnakeeyes - If we play best of 3, you'll get plenty of games in.
@Bobbert - Or you could play the category that's against T1. I will admit the teams conundrum is more problematic
Why can't top cut go until 11pm on Friday night with (option #4)? All the people that make top cut stay up late anyways and go out to eat. Then they can play on Saturday. If you want to extend it to Saturday it should be double elimination AND 2/3 right?
That is not at all accurate.
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.
In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed.The decision is a value judgement. No one--no matter what their standing--is going to be forced to play in a top cut if they would prefer to play another event. Switching to a two day format means only that each individual player would need to make a personal decision as to whether participating in a possibly "fairer" top cut is worth forgoing playing in a third event.
In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.Just to be clear, given time constraints that are not a lot of options for implementing a more involved top cut. The only other option would be to curtail the number of meaningful rounds in the qualification (from seven--for swiss plus single elimination top cut--down to four or five).
Switching to a two day format means only that each individual player would need to make a personal decision as to whether participating in a possibly "fairer" top cut is worth forgoing playing in a third event.
In order to accommodate the additional day, has anyone ever considered playing Sunday afternoon? I know this poses a logistical issue with morning service and most likely configuration of the church to accommodate the tournament but just putting it out there.
Also makes it hard for people to get back for whatever they need to get back to on Monday.
The biggest reasons I can be in favor of going to 2 days for T12P is for "fairness" which to me if were talking that we need to discuss lunch as it's not right that playing a long game right before lunch can leave you less than 10mins for lunch where as a quick game can get 45mins to an hr. (Happened to me more than once at Nats so we cant say it doesnt happen) but besides that I dont see how having that extra day is any more fair than just extending top cut play after say a dinner break or something as it still offers a break and the 2 day system offers unfair things to the players who do well and their teammates.Just a stab at explaining why a two-day format would be more "fair"...
The biggest reasons I can be in favor of going to 2 days for T12P is for "fairness" which to me if were talking that we need to discuss lunch as it's not right that playing a long game right before lunch can leave you less than 10mins for lunch where as a quick game can get 45mins to an hr. (Happened to me more than once at Nats so we cant say it doesnt happen) but besides that I dont see how having that extra day is any more fair than just extending top cut play after say a dinner break or something as it still offers a break and the 2 day system offers unfair things to the players who do well and their teammates.Just a stab at explaining why a two-day format would be more "fair"...
Despite the fact that top tier players all build their decks to be as consistent as possible, everyone has had games where pure randomness in a bad draw (or whatever) has cost them a game. A single elimination tournament (which current top cut is) is inherently going to be most susceptible to a bad (i.e., "unfair") result due to a bad draw. The way to make the top cut more "fair" is to get rid of the one-and-done format--hence the options for best of 3 play and double elimination.
Unfortunately a best of three top cut will simply not fit in an evening session after a dinner break with any reasonable ending time (for example an 8-player best of three top cut would require time to be set aside for 9 "rounds" of play) while an 8-player top cut with double elimination would require 5 "rounds" to be set aside. If you make the cut after seven rounds this would mean either a 16- or 12-round day. Sixteen rounds is pretty clearly beyond the reasonable limit. Twelve rounds *may* be doable, but--to be completely fair--I have been a strong proponent of a double elimination top cut so I may be undervaluing how hard it would be to add two games at the end what is already a long day.
I was originally a 2/3 guy but I think I can get on bored with a double elimination. The only stipulation I would have is that the person who makes the final without losing any games should have to be beaten twice by the player who Climbs back through the losers bracket.Absolutely. Otherwise it is not a double elimination!
Then if we want to talk "fairness" what about "fairness" in those other events? Bad draws happen in every format.Yes, but bad draws have the largest impact on T1-2P.
I could see double elimination before best of 3 quite easily but I think if that were the issue then we would need to play double elimination from the get go and move towards a top cutThis I do disagree with. Having folks come to Nationals only to have a quarter of them done playing after the second round is a really, really bad idea. Swiss is a great way to run a qualifying event... arguably much better than any form of elimination event.
Quote
I could see double elimination before best of 3 quite easily but I think if that were the issue then we would need to play double elimination from the get go and move towards a top cut
This I do disagree with. Having folks come to Nationals only to have a quarter of them done playing after the second round is a really, really bad idea. Swiss is a great way to run a qualifying event... arguably much better than any form of elimination event.
I find value in eliminating the top 8, 12 or 16 players from the third day field. It gives other players a chance to place or win who otherwise might not have that opportunity.
I find value in eliminating the top 8, 12 or 16 players from the third day field. It gives other players a chance to place or win who otherwise might not have that opportunity.
That's a fair point (and one of the reasons I think it's better to pair T1 2P and T2 2P, but that's a different topic), but in my opinion Sealed and T1 MP are already categories that are more wide open in terms of who has a chance to win.
For the record, I would also support a 2 Day T1 2P tournament (especially if the field was 50+ people) with 1 day of Swiss and then 1 day of Double Elimination if the schedule were such that it didn't impact TEAMS. Perhaps that is something we could look at for future years.
What if we play teams the night of Day 2 of T1 2P this year? And then in the future play TEAMS on Wednesday night?
I’m certain that some of the regular officials (judges, mc, etc) do not want to spend our nights running another official event. Part of the draw to make it to Nats every year is to see distant friends again. That includes time for socializing and meals together.
I love a good competition as much as anyone but it needs to be balanced with other things that are important too.
Are you keeping track of all our new ideas Fachman? ::)
I don't know if anyone else out there is really putting enough effort into prepping for Teams to make not playing T1 worth it, but at least a few people have noted that they still want to play three categories regardless.
Whos your team mateI don't know if anyone else out there is really putting enough effort into prepping for Teams to make not playing T1 worth it, but at least a few people have noted that they still want to play three categories regardless.
I am. I voted for option 2 because I will be playing Teams no matter what.
What if we play teams the night of Day 2 of T1 2P this year? And then in the future play TEAMS on Wednesday night?
So, our solution to not making the top T12P players play while exhausted is to make everyone (including many of those players) play a different format while exhausted? ???
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)
I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o
8)
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)
I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o
8)
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)
I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o
8)
Nope, I'd rather play instead of judging.
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)
I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o
8)
Nope, I'd rather play instead of judging.
FTFY ;D
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)
I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o
8)
Is Type A being offered this year?
100+ players 16 top cut
40-99 players 8 top cut
32-40 players 6 with top 2 seeds getting a bye
31 or less 4 player top cut
@thread remember people have been very hurt in the past when they actually should have cut and did not. The smaller the cut the more you punish unique decks or reward meta decks.
Do people have a preference on how many people should be in the top cut?All players move on into a round-robin top cut.
I think it still needs to be based on points due to ties and time-out games where players can get partial points.You can do points if you want (although X-2 or better just sounds more prestigious :P). I just wanted to agree with your contention that having a fixed criterion up front is a great idea.
A more serious suggestion here...
I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.
There is a (less than ;)) 0% chance that you will have more than 16 players will meet this criteria, so one additional play-in round for the lowest-ranked players may be necessary.
16 players would have been exactly half the field in Texas. Since I've not yet chimed in, I'm personally more in favor of a scaling cut based on attendance. So if nationals garnered 60+ in T1-2P, I'm more in favor of a top sixteen or all x-2s make cut, but if the attendance is between 30-40, then the cut cannot exceed eight players, and arguably even that number causes problems if even one game goes to a weird time-out scenario.A more serious suggestion here...
I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.
There is a (less than ;)) 0% chance that you will have more than 16 players will meet this criteria, so one additional play-in round for the lowest-ranked players may be necessary.
Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top. Why not just expand top cut to 16 regardless of attendance? Then someone could probably 3 lose or timeout win, depending on the numbers, and still top. There are going to be so many talented players this year playing the game at (arguable) it's competitive pinnacle. I do like Justin's proposition but ironically it favors cookie cutter decks that win in 10 minutes more than a top cut of 16 like Josiah suggested early (let's face we will have over 100 for type 1!).
These are all great ideas. I am glad this thread has not diverged into flame wars- besides a few passive aggressive -1's- but rather refining ideas!
I think you are missing the point. In Justin's list for the past X years there have been a bunch of people with 2 losses (15 points after 7 rounds) that did not make the cut. This is a way to ensure that none of those players get knocked out of the top cut because of tie-breaker junk. Get to 15 you are in.I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.
Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top.
I understand why doing Swiss (X-2) and top cut is useful but I am saying having a larger cut at smaller attendance than you should is basically the same. In Justin's list the cut was smaller and they would have topped under the proposed change. I worry that being too transparent upfront will effect how people play after they have lost, something like cheating for good and letting their friends win. Personally I really doing both together Justin said.I think you are missing the point. In Justin's list for the past X years there have been a bunch of people with 2 losses (15 points after 7 rounds) that did not make the cut. This is a way to ensure that none of those players get knocked out of the top cut because of tie-breaker junk. Get to 15 you are in.I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.
Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top.
Can I get the official schedule of events please? I am driving up Friday evening from Nashville and staying over night.
Can I get the official schedule of events please? I am driving up Friday evening from Nashville and staying over night.
The schedule on the first post is official, and just changed it to say that.
Official Schedule:
Thursday: T2 - 2 Player (Free!) / Booster Draft 2 Player ($20.00)
Friday: T1 - 2 Player (Top Cut X players) (Free!) / T2 - Multi (Free!)
Saturday: Teams (Free!) / T1 - Multi (Free!) / Sealed ($15.00)
Look forward to finally meeting you!
HEY Gents
I SEE almost nothing detailing the special after hours events at Nats. This year. I was under the impression we were taking a break from regular events we currently offer after hours and instead using alternate forms of sealed and booster or an event that focuses on special grouping of cards like just old or just new.
Can we get a list of extra events, not just the regular tournament schedule, please?
Thanks John M.
I will not be running Garbage Sealed this year. I will have the Cube in tow so I am willing to offer a Cube draft one evening if there is interest.TRAVIS IS COMING?!?!?! *happy dance*
I will not be running Garbage Sealed this year. I will have the Cube in tow so I am willing to offer a Cube draft one evening if there is interest.
I will not be running Garbage Sealed this year. I will have the Cube in tow so I am willing to offer a Cube draft one evening if there is interest.
I do love me some Cube drafting! Do you update the Cube with each new expansion that comes out? Are all 16 brigades represented, or have you trimmed some of them for more consistent drafting?
I have updated it including the PoC full release. I have excluded all "Star" cards as I am not interested in introducing that mechanic to the cube at this point. All brigades are represented. I have not made any significant changes to the cube outside of updating it with new cards. Hopefully, it will be an enjoyable experience again this year.
Will games be recorded and released for public later on - or will there even be live streaming?
Two things:
1. If I pay in card, can I do it now or do I need to wait until the event?
2. What time does booster draft start on Thursday? I need to know ASAP so I know what time I need to leave to go to the church that day.
Will games be recorded and released for public later on - or will there even be live streaming?
I will be bringing my setup to stream/record games. If the network will handle it, we will stream. If not, we will record and upload later.
I apologize if this was already mentioned somewhere - I wasn't able to find it if it was.
Will players be able to crash at the church Wednesday night?
I don't know where to post this, but if I needed to switch a category for one of the days I will be there, and I preregistered, is that still possible?
Nathan L.
Or is this maybe from drafting? Or maybe Majestic Heavens triggered too often?
TheJaylor is trying to be funny...that is me playing Booster Draft... ::);D ;D ;D
Ha, that guy on the left is using Meek Lost Souls. What a noob.10/10. Highest quality content.