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Redemptionģ Card Game => Redemptionģ Tournaments => Redemptionģ Onsite Official Tournaments => Topic started by: Crashfach2002 on January 02, 2019, 04:38:35 PM

Title: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 02, 2019, 04:38:35 PM
Please register HERE (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSekp2BMwimZ6MQvQTv0MpOZMVMjMekhcqm1rkLJdYI6Axd8Pg/viewform)!!!

PAYMENTS ACCEPTED:
- cash
- check
- credit/debit card
- Venmo
- Zelle
- GooglePay
- PayPal via gift (to avoid charges)

***I will be able to take credit card payments for anything, but to cover the cost of doing that I will be charging an additional 3% to use the card.  I've never done this before so bear with me!

Knoxville, TN--August 1-3, 2019

Host: Chris Fachman
Venue:
Meridian Baptist Church
6513 Chapman Highway, Knoxville, TN 37920

Official Schedule:

Thursday:  T2 - 2 Player (Free!) / Booster Draft 2 Player ($20.00)
Friday:  T1 - 2 Player (Top Cut X players) (Free!) / T2 - Multi (Free!)
Saturday:  Teams (Free!) / T1 - Multi (Free!) / Sealed ($15.00)

This year's National Tournament participant promos!

Spoiler (hover to show)


Alright guys, while I'm still working on the official schedule I wanted to post here what was mentioned a while ago.  I want to try to raise some money to see if we can't make this a completely free tournament if not discounted to try to make this as affordable as possible so we can try to get as many people there as possible!

So here are my goals with the value beside them.

1) Free entry for open categories for everyone 17 years and younger or has never been to a National Tournament before.  $100

2) Free entry for open categories (for everyone).  $100

3) Free meal plan (This will include Breakfast and Lunch)  $3,000

I figure about $5 a meal x 6 for 100 people.

4) Free entry fee for closed categories for everyone 17 years and younger or has never been to a National Tournament before. $1,400

Sealed Deck:  $15 x 40 = $600
Booster Draft:  $20 x 40 = $800

5) Free entry fee for closed categories (for everyone).  $1,400

Sealed Deck:  $15 x 40 = $600
Booster Draft:  $20 x 40 = $800

Goal 1:  $100
Goals 1-2: $200
Goals 1-3: $3,200
Goals 1-4: $4,600
Goals 1-5: $6,000

How are we going to do this?  I have talked to Rob and I can do it a few ways:

I can sell cards from my collection, I will only be selling cards I have an excess of.
I can sell complete sets (including Phase 2 of Prophecies of Christ)
You can simply donate through Pay-Pal.

Money Raised so far: $339.61

The selling thread is HERE (http://www.cactusforums.com/redemption-market/sellingtrading-thread/msg573362/#msg573362)
Title: Re: 2019 National Tournament date voting
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 14, 2019, 11:27:27 AM
Info for the area:

The airport is McGhee Tyson Airport (TYS).  The address is 2055 Alcoa Hwy, Alcoa, TN 37701.  The airport is roughly 20 minutes from the church.

Megabus has apparently decided to no longer stop in Knoxville anymore.  Sorry!

Greyhound drops off at 100 E Magnolia Ave, Knoxville, TN 37917 and is about 15 minutes from the church.

If you take the greyhound and arrive during hours Knoxville has city transit call the KAT buses.  You can take route 20, then get on the bus for route 41 which will drop you off right in front of the church.

I'm going to go look at the hotels and get you guys an "official" one, but there are a ton of options below:

If you plan on staying in a hotel, I recommend staying on Strawberry Plains Pike in Knoxville, TN 37924.  These hotels are roughly 20 minutes from the church, but they aren't normally very busy, there are plenty of food places around and they are also not NEAR as expensive as our downtown options.

DO NOT stay at the Executive Inn, Lakeview Motel or Sunset Motel on Chapman Highway!!!!!!!!  (I really don't think that is enough exclamation points honestly!!!!)

*****Official Hotel*****
https://www.redroof.com/property/tn/knoxville/RRI747 (https://www.redroof.com/property/tn/knoxville/RRI747)

Rooms are reserved under Chris Redemption for $205.62 (including tax) for 3 nights (Check in Wed, Check out Sat. Morning)

Wife and I looked at a room right after being cleaning.  The hotel is a little old, but clean!  We have pics of the room, pool, and eating area from just this week if you would like to see those PM me!

You are more than welcome to stay at the church and we have showers that have been added as well.

I will be giving out maps for restaurants around the church and around Strawberry Plains Pike.  We have a LOT of new options since the last time most of you were here!
Title: Re: 2019 National Tournament date voting
Post by: Gabe on January 14, 2019, 11:30:20 AM
Lord willing I will make either date with a van full of players. Thanks for hosting and making this so affordable!
Title: Re: 2019 National Tournament date voting
Post by: TechnoEthicist on January 14, 2019, 01:16:15 PM
If we can figure out what we are going to do with the kids, (Simon is 4 weeks old already, and Evan is 3!) then we will try and come. It would be great to see everyone!

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FASlunFlb.jpg&hash=d52d9c44375d01d21b11d3379f2ac87a) (https://imgur.com/ASlunFl)
Title: Re: 2019 National Tournament date voting
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 14, 2019, 01:26:23 PM
If we can figure out what we are going to do with the kids, (Simon is 4 weeks old already, and Evan is 3!) then we will try and come. It would be great to see everyone!

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FASlunFlb.jpg&hash=d52d9c44375d01d21b11d3379f2ac87a) (https://imgur.com/ASlunFl)


Looks like he is excited about it, so you should bring him with you!
Title: Re: 2019 National Tournament date voting
Post by: uthminister [BR] on January 14, 2019, 01:56:08 PM
We can come if it is the first week of August. We have a mission trip planned for the last week of July.
Title: Re: 2019 National Tournament date voting
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 20, 2019, 02:21:05 PM
Bumping again because we need to go ahead and try to figure this out.  If it ends super close to a tie, Iíll be having a discussion with a few people and we will decide on which date to go forward with.


Huge announcement coming tomorrow!  Stay tuned!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: ReyZen on January 27, 2019, 08:24:07 AM
Game on!

Pending Chris' official details, I have posted on the OP a similar copy of Cactus' tournament schedule announcement.

Plan your trip to celebrate our 25th National Tournament!

Peace and Blessings!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 30, 2019, 11:24:23 AM
Alright everyone, please vote if you haven't already.  Upon conversations with people, unless the poll moves very heavily towards the July date we will probably keep the date the same as it has always been which is the first weekend in August.
Title: Re: 2019 National Tournament date voting
Post by: EmJayBee83 on January 30, 2019, 01:33:21 PM
If we can figure out what we are going to do with the kids, (Simon is 4 weeks old already, and Evan is 3!) then we will try and come. It would be great to see everyone!

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FASlunFlb.jpg&hash=d52d9c44375d01d21b11d3379f2ac87a) (https://imgur.com/ASlunFl)


So cute! And to think, I was there when these crazy kids got engaged...
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelfire.com%2Fok%2Ffurrow%2Fnats08a%2Fthumbnails%2F600x450%2Fn14.jpg&hash=83a02d483cac34995dff271624d9272d)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on January 30, 2019, 02:46:29 PM
Mega Bus, Mega Bus, Mega Bus!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on February 09, 2019, 02:32:48 PM
Any word on whether T1 and T2 will run concurrently or not?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on March 31, 2019, 06:14:55 PM
As if I have not bothered you enough this week  ;D ;) is there an update to the schedule or a general consensus leaning towards one way or the other?  7 categories is tough, I personally wouldn't be opposed to testing a new schedule out that didn't include one of or both of the multiplayers, (T1/T2 MP only). Maximizing the amount of contestants in the most popular categories seems to make for the most competition, different decks, and everyone always gets excited when the field is large. The new cards/format for booster seem to be a very popular category, T1 2p is always the most category, so these two should really be the main focus. I wouldn't mind type 1 2p running only alongside type A. I don't think there's such a thing as the perfect schedule, so appeasing the majority should be the main concern and type 1 2p is just that, and this is coming from an almost secluded type 2'er.

Thursday- Booster/T2 2P: This allows for your hardcore t2 players and more experienced t1 players who want to cross over into the real gameplay and also opens up the playing field for booster for newer players to have a better shot at higher tables, or even competitive players to win if you take away 12-20 top players in type 2. This also gives newer players a day for deck building, construction, chance for new cards, and allows for the masses to travel if need be and be there for the main event for the next day...

Friday- Type 1 2 player/Type A: Let us all try to friendly kill each other. I can't think of anyone who hates type 1 so much they would be mad that something else isn't offered. Technically type 2 mp can be during this day too, but the thought of the main event gaining all the attention is pretty cool. Imagine 100 people at this nats and 75 playing in type 1.  :o

Saturday- This is a low attendance day where people are leaving and your main 3 events are already done anyway. You can really throw in a lot of categories here all in one day. Sealed/MP's/Teams can all run jointly. Like I said, I think type 2MP, even with additional time, is almost to the point of impossible to finish games, and type 1 MP is just a draw fest anyway, sorry if you don't like that, but you still know it's true. I would run Sealed and Teams this day and eliminate T1/2 MP's for this year and see how it goes. And once again, this is coming from a guy who has a couple T2 MP titles under his belt and the only open category left that I haven't ranked in is T1 MP so I wanted to play that this year, so I'm just saying.

This schedule allows for both 2 player formats, maximizes booster, gives a day for travel, a day for deck building with new cards from booster, and creates a huge amount of excitement for the first ever main event being the only event pretty much. Maybe extend top cut to 12, extend prizes to top 8, live feed multiple games at a time, and get to see a massive amount of unique deckstyles in type1 which I personally think will be the most open and explosive meta in Redemption history. Last year had a few good decks in type 1 that had a realistic shot at winning, sorry but it's true. The year before was CoL (shudders) and the year before that was BoM/Throne decks. This year we could (should) see a resurgence of BoM, various prophet offenses, more Throne, a very fast red bander, teal (that feels weird to say), Genesis/Flood, white/clay, clay variants, musicians, Ruth (maybe), Daniel decks, cloud based decks, star based decks and maybe even a random angel party. I seriously think if there are 75 type 1 players you will see the most amount of decks that are actually competitive and the meta hasn't even been set yet!

Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on March 31, 2019, 06:15:13 PM
Part 2!!!!

Just seeing what you guys think and before some people come on here and yell about eliminating categories because they "have" to be given at nats, if majority of the community isn't even playing them, or never has (I'm looking at you t2MP) then maybe we could reconsider this option. Let's do what's best for the players and the game which is to see what the heck everyone is playing and have a massive amount of the community fight it out for the top type 1 title possibly ever. From personal experience, 15 years of competitive play and going to 11 nationals I can confidently say it really is not fun to time out all the time in t2 mp and see the exact same decks over and over. It's even worse when after one round you, and rightfully so, get targeted due to the entire field knowing what you are playing and that you won 1 game which is a huge deal in t2 mp. It's not really fun anymore because I don't get to see peoples decks. No joke you get 4 rounds give or take in an entire game, and if you add 15 extra minutes you will just extend the day longer and still get 4 rounds, maybe 5 in. When it comes to 4-5 rounds you have to play extremely quick, fast/searching decks, and if anyone (Jayden lol) has a counter to this then you sit there and smile at everyone. Add all this together with the 8-12 participants and it really seems ok to drop the category at nationals completely.

Now on to T1 MP....The complete opposite can be said of this guy. Zero defense, 20 heroes per deck and speed...everywhere! This also tends to have the most newcomers as well so we get to expose the children to this abomination of a category, (kind of a sarcastic joke but still). So half the field, there's usually around 15-20 if it's paired with a weaker category, are newbies who get to see that in order to win you have to speed through your deck and not play defense. Don't @me. Booster is awesome, teams is awesome, both of these formats are very close to t1 MP so why not take out this category to maximize on the best stuff. If I thought people would be seriously opposed to this then I would not have taken the time to write a small thesis on the matter, but I really think this would make for an amazing nationals that showcases numerous decks, archetypes and improves the player field.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Gabe on March 31, 2019, 06:17:30 PM
I love you, Tyler.*  :amen:

*In a manly, platonic kind of way.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on March 31, 2019, 06:27:56 PM
I love you, Tyler.*  :amen:

*In a manly, platonic kind of way.

What he said
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on March 31, 2019, 06:37:29 PM
Great feedback so far!  :-* ;D
Love you guys too, in a similar manly, platonic kind of way too of course.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on March 31, 2019, 07:44:51 PM
Despite all of the joking around we did at the Type 2 only... I actually like type two multi but I am probably biased. Why can't type 2 multi run concurrently with sealed and TEAMS? TEAMS, imo, has become not very fun to play. Plus, not everyone has a teammate or wants to play a closed category.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on March 31, 2019, 07:58:45 PM
You absolutely can, but now you are potentially diluting all of fields on that day on the least attended day. I would probably play T2 MP that day, but why T2MP over T1MP on that day? If you are eliminating 1 category, that helps, but 2 might need to go for an ideal schedule. I will agree with you about sealed not being fun because those decks have been out for so many years, so I would not mind that category gone, but that is a decent money maker for the host. If you do all 3 you take away around 12 players from the field of teams/sealed, but this also offers an opportunity for people to leave early if they are hitting the road. I am not against 3 categories on Saturday, but that is tough to balance all 3 categories in a timely fashion on the day that tends to end slightly earlier.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on March 31, 2019, 09:21:13 PM
If you are not going to have them played at Nationals, you may as well just remove the multiplayer as official categories and make it clear that Redemption is strictly a two player game.

And since last year there were as many T1-MP players as there were people playing T2-2P, and only two more people played TEAMS, maybe we should just stick with the most popular events and do...

Thursday:  Booster
Friday:      T1-2P/Type A
Saturday:  Sealed
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on March 31, 2019, 09:34:55 PM
You absolutely can, but now you are potentially diluting all of fields on that day on the least attended day. I would probably play T2 MP that day, but why T2MP over T1MP on that day? If you are eliminating 1 category, that helps, but 2 might need to go for an ideal schedule. I will agree with you about sealed not being fun because those decks have been out for so many years, so I would not mind that category gone, but that is a decent money maker for the host. If you do all 3 you take away around 12 players from the field of teams/sealed, but this also offers an opportunity for people to leave early if they are hitting the road. I am not against 3 categories on Saturday, but that is tough to balance all 3 categories in a timely fashion on the day that tends to end slightly earlier.

Historically, when type 2 multi player has been with type one the field is diluted too. Not sure pairing it with a less popular category, TEAMS, would dilute T2 multi more.  As for type 1 multi you could throw that in on the day type 2 when t1 2 player is played. Then it can also serve as a type- A and a half for those not young enough to play type A but not experienced enough to have fun competing in T1. I agree overall though and would take that schedule over any of the "old" ones.

If you are not going to have them played at Nationals, you may as well just remove the multiplayer as official categories and make it clear that Redemption is strictly a two player game.

And since last year there were as many T1-MP players as there were people playing T2-2P, and only two more people played TEAMS, maybe we should just stick with the most popular events and do...

Thursday:  Booster
Friday:      T1-2P/Type A
Saturday:  Sealed


Popular vote would be a more accurate way of deciding this, but I understand your sentiment. Having all categories played at Nationals is important, however diluted.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red on March 31, 2019, 10:17:39 PM
I advocate for Tyler's schedule, although, after judging it and playing it, I would personally kill TEAMs, but that's entirely a personal opinion and statistics demonstrate that it deserves the airtime.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheJaylor on March 31, 2019, 11:03:32 PM
Maybe we should just change the deck building rules for T2-MP to having a good to evil ratio of 2:1. :P
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Watchman on March 31, 2019, 11:19:34 PM
I agree with Tyler in that the more players in less categories is better than less players in more categories.

Why not run 2P booster concurrently with T1 MP like it was last Nats? I thought that was a good split, and it gives the multiplayer folks a chance to do that while the one on one folks can play booster. Personally my son doesnít like booster but likes T1 MP so that worked out well for us. But overall I think it works well.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on March 31, 2019, 11:56:12 PM
I would be fine with cutting one category so there are only two categories each day. Although T1 2P is the most popular category, there are people who really prefer not to play that category and for them to spend the money to come to Nationals, I think it's reasonable to offer two categories each day even if they end up with smaller fields. (As a note, I'm not counting Type A as that should always be paired with T1 2P).

If that category has to be T2 MP, I would understand though I would hope we could cut one of the Type 1 categories since there are 5 of those and only 2 Type 2 categories. I have no problem with games timing out in T2 MP as long as we're actually getting to fight battles and not spending 20 minutes for one person to get through their prep phase...the timing system we tested at the T2 Only seemed work really well -- we got 3 quality rounds done in about 5 1/2 hours so 4 rounds would have been just over 7, which is perfect for a Nationals.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on April 01, 2019, 08:29:29 AM
Justin, I like your point about not cutting a T2 category since everything else is T1. Also, I liked Nathanís point of pairing T2 MP with T1 2P.
Emjaybee-
To compare type 2 to other lesser played categories isnít even fair. My entire post is about maximizing type 1 2P. Obviously the most popular category, and easiest to get into, is T1 2P and that goes up against T2 2P every year, naturally there are going to be way less people playing. Take the number of players from the only nationals where they were split and youíll hopefully see a more accurate representation.

Eliminating categories outright is also a very dramatic response. Majority of tournaments, including states and even some regionals, do not even offer T2 MP because the lack of players, or only 3 show up because they automatically get prizes so long as they check a deck in. Having these formats available still allows for schedule diversification and makes for unique tournaments, see the T2 only. Eliminating T2 2P from nationals being one of your schedule proposals kind of takes away from the purpose of my post and the current discussion.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Sean on April 01, 2019, 09:18:01 AM
I know there aren't a lot of total players but has it ever been considered to have the National Tournament for T1 and T2 separate from each other?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 01, 2019, 09:28:59 AM
I know there aren't a lot of total players but has it ever been considered to have the National Tournament for T1 and T2 separate from each other?

For a lot of people, one of the main reasons they attend Nationals is the chance to see people they usually only see once a year (at Nationals), and something like this would completely take that away. While some might be able to afford attending both, the majority would not be able to do that.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Sean on April 01, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
I totally get that, just throwing out an idea.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on April 01, 2019, 10:50:01 AM
Emjaybee-
To compare type 2 to other lesser played categories isnít even fair. My entire post is about maximizing type 1 2P. Obviously the most popular category, and easiest to get into, is T1 2P and that goes up against T2 2P every year, naturally there are going to be way less people playing. Take the number of players from the only nationals where they were split and youíll hopefully see a more accurate representation.
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "lesser played categories."  Going back 10 years T2-2P has lower attendance than Sealed every single year (usually by large margins). Yet you said you would be fine with killing sealed. T2-2P has topped T1-MP player count twice in the past 10 years. On this T1-2P and T2-2P were separated in 2017 and T2-2P had fewer players (24) than both Sealed (28) and T1-MP (26) even though those two events were scheduled against each other on Saturday.

If events need to be killed just kill them, but any recognized categories should to be part of Nats. (There should also be an agreement on the criteria to decide which events to eliminate.) If such winnowing is needed, my preference would be this occurs following this years Nats. That preference is based on nothing more than mawkish sentimentality, however. It just kind of stinks to have category termination tied to the tournament that should be focused on celebrating the 25th Anniversary of the games.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Gabe on April 01, 2019, 10:57:32 AM
It just kind of stinks to have category termination tied to the tournament that should be focused on celebrating the 25th Anniversary of the games.

#bringbackmultiplayersealedforthe25thanniversary
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Kor on April 01, 2019, 12:43:21 PM
My vote for arrangement would be:

T1 2-player/T2 Multi/Type A

T2 2 player/T1 Multi/Sealed

Teams/2-player Booster/Multi Booster


Benefits are:

-People who want to T1 both events can
-People who want to T2 both events can
-A multi format each day for this who prefer that
-A 2-player format each day for those who prefer that
-2 days of non constructed for those who prefer that or donít have competitive collections

Iím sure there will still be players that have their favorites paired, but I think this should be good for a lot of people.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: jbeers285 on April 01, 2019, 05:35:42 PM
I like Kors list but would consider flipping booster multi with t2 multi
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Kor on April 01, 2019, 05:50:36 PM
I like Kors list but would consider flipping booster multi with t2 multi

Actually I think I like that better too.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: jbeers285 on April 01, 2019, 06:06:15 PM
That provides a sealed, 1v1 and multi category every day. It also means T2 only players wouldnít have to come Thursday and could save money and vacation time.

Although the major draw back is that the biggest event ends up on Thursday. You might have to flip Thursday Friday and then you lose the benefit for t2 players. (TBF they arenít the majority though)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Kevinthedude on April 01, 2019, 06:16:22 PM
All I care about is that T1 is not on Thursday again. There are people that can't take enough days off to make Thursday and people that can't justify coming to Nats if they can't play T1 and those groups of people overlap. Putting T1 on Thursday is just a surefire way to guarantee a smaller attendance.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Master Q on April 01, 2019, 06:23:17 PM
And then the MP Booster Draft/2P Booster Draft/Teams Booster Draft Nats emerges to save the world! (and destroy people's wallets) 8)

Relating to scheduling, I agree that T1 MP is the devil and T2 MP is an endurance trial, and if you cut them I wouldn't even notice, but is it fair to take that away from people who might come to Nats to play those, if, for whatever reason, one of those is their favorite category? Even if people only play them to get a better chance at prizes or to make other people suffer, they are longstanding categories. If anything, taking them off tournament for next season would be the way to go; not this Nats when people have already gone to tournaments and built MP decks and such.

As much as I would like to see the largest pool of players playing a category possible, the fact is if you offer T1 anything concurrently with T2 anything, you will always get that split of T1 players playing T1 and T2 playing T2. So there will always be that dilution. Furthermore, Nats is already effectively a pre-determined event, with the same people playing the same things over and over. The attendance shrinks when you isolate people (either by location or otherwise), so attempting to force people to play an event (T1 2p) they either don't want to play, or sit out instead, will isolate those people.

We don't need 100% of our existing players to play the most popular category (T1 2p). What we do need is more players.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on April 01, 2019, 07:37:18 PM
T1 2P should not be on Thursday, that seems to be a majority consensus so far. After reading the last comments I came to a conclusion, most of you like my proposed schedule and just resaid it lol.
MasterQ- Iím a huge type 2 player and pretty good in t2 multi, but I would play t1 2p over t2 mp any day, and most t2íers would probably feel the same. The same people play the same thing over and over again because the schedule has never hanged minus one year. The fact that this topic is brought up every year and there was serious debate over it last year, just started too late, it might have changed. I agree we need more players but since that is not an immediate solution and is out of some peopleís hands, the only variable we can control is the schedule. At least put it up to a vote.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 06, 2019, 11:13:14 AM
Sorry everyone,

Life has been super busy this last several weeks and will be pretty busy this week as well.  But I hope to try to get an official category schedule, goals for free categories/food, hotel info and other things soon!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 09, 2019, 09:25:19 PM
Please check the first 2 posts as I have finally been able to add some information for you guys!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 10, 2019, 02:10:21 AM
Do you have a specific list of cards you're willing to sell to reach the goals?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on April 10, 2019, 05:20:52 AM
Please check the first 2 posts as I have finally been able to add some information for you guys!
Hey Chris, I think you have a miscalculation in your goals...

3) Free meal plan (This will include Breakfast and Lunch)  $600

I figure about $5 a meal x 6 for 100 people.
$5 x 6 x 100 = $3000.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but it is better to catch this early rather than ending up having you potentially out $2400.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 10, 2019, 09:08:39 AM
Please check the first 2 posts as I have finally been able to add some information for you guys!
Hey Chris, I think you have a miscalculation in your goals...

3) Free meal plan (This will include Breakfast and Lunch)  $600

I figure about $5 a meal x 6 for 100 people.
$5 x 6 x 100 = $3000.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but it is better to catch this early rather than ending up having you potentially out $2400.

Thanks!  That is a large difference.  Not sure how that happened!  Thanks for letting me know!

Do you have a specific list of cards you're willing to sell to reach the goals?

I will update my thread and post a link here as well.  But the one I have currently would be at least 95% accurate.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on April 10, 2019, 10:43:05 AM
math is hardd
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 10, 2019, 11:05:11 AM
math is hardd

It is sometimes!  I even have a degree that is basically just math.  But for some reason, I can't do simple math!  :P


Guys, since I miscalculated the food cost I would be willing to adjust the goals.  So if we raise enough money to have free open categories and free closed categories for new and young players, but not quite enough for the free food, I'll be switching the goals to maximize the opportunity for free stuff!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: goalieking87 on April 10, 2019, 12:19:19 PM
math is hardd

As I always like to say, there are three types of people in this world:  Those who are good at math, and those who arenít.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: jesse on April 10, 2019, 12:33:34 PM
math is hardd

As I always like to say, there are three types of people in this world:  Those who are good at math, and those who arenít.

  :rollin:
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 17, 2019, 06:01:55 PM
The selling post in updated in Market with a link in the first post of this page.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Sean on April 18, 2019, 09:21:20 AM
Do we have an idea of when the tournament schedule will be finalized? 
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 18, 2019, 09:49:22 AM
Do we have an idea of when the tournament schedule will be finalized?

We have been discussing this.  I'll double check where we are.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 18, 2019, 12:34:27 PM
Do we know what the promos for the winners are?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on April 18, 2019, 12:47:53 PM
Do we know what the promos for the winners are?
A new car!  (If Chris can find a sponsor.)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 18, 2019, 12:58:23 PM
that would be amazing  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 18, 2019, 12:59:40 PM
I feel we. should have christian martyr as one of the winners promos :P
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Sean on April 18, 2019, 01:04:02 PM
I would prefer not to have evil cards as winner promos.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Kevinthedude on April 18, 2019, 01:16:22 PM
I would prefer not to have evil cards as winner promos.

Why not? I need full border versions of all my dominants, not just the good ones!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Sean on April 18, 2019, 01:34:05 PM
Just seems a little odd to me to have an evil promo for rescuing the most Lost Souls.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 18, 2019, 01:36:18 PM
we already have falling away as one why not let the people have change at having all their doms borderless?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 18, 2019, 02:02:25 PM
Just seems a little odd to me to have an evil promo for rescuing the most Lost Souls.

If it's any consolation, the evil promo last year (borderless version of the new Falling Away) was the "second place" promo.

Basically for the past 3 years, we've had three special promos for those who place at Nationals or in RNRS. Winner would get all 3, second place would get two of them and third place would receive one.

2016:
1st Son of God
2nd Captain of the Host
3rd Angel of the Lord

2017:
1st Son of God
2nd Michael
3rd Angel of the Lord

2018:
1st Son of God
2nd Falling Away (new)
3rd Angel of the Lord

The Son of God and Angel of the Lords have used the various different artworks that we've used for those cards in the past. You can find the images for them on the Land of Redemption blog.

2019:
1st ???
2nd ???
3rd ???

 8)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 18, 2019, 02:04:11 PM
2018 Winner promos
http://landofredemption.com/?p=8511 (http://landofredemption.com/?p=8511)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 18, 2019, 02:07:04 PM
2017

Spoiler (hover to show)

Spoiler (hover to show)

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 18, 2019, 02:07:49 PM
2016

http://landofredemption.com/?p=5238 (http://landofredemption.com/?p=5238)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 18, 2019, 02:11:58 PM
I believe that 2016 had the best art for AotL  8) 8) 8) 8)  I love that art borderless
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Gabe on April 18, 2019, 03:05:27 PM
If Son of God is one of the participant promos it seems unlikely that we'd also give it out as a winner promo this year...  ::)

I image we will reveal them soon(tm) ;)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on April 18, 2019, 08:43:46 PM
I believe that 2016 had the best art for AotL  8) 8) 8) 8)  I love that art borderless

I defiantly  certainly somewhat respectfully *sigh*  somewhat certainly defiantly ...... ah nvm your wrong!!!! (though the hyperuninflammatory type of wrong----if, of course hyperuninflammatory was a word--  not to be confused with "your wrong!!!" which is most obviously of the inflammatory variety.). Short story long: [The AotL with all of the lightning (Godspeed777's avatar) is objeCtively***  the best****]*****.


***  If  "objeCtively" is defined to be: subjectively but with above-average, antagonizing connotations to unskilled navigators of the boards and/or the medically-underprivileged, farsighted. Used in a sentence: YWTU is an objeCtively bad deck concept. Duelin dude is objeCtively bad at redemption TheHobbit is objeCtevly taking too long to type this message and needs to do something before a NOT 40 page, Flamewar doesn't not, not happen over a seemingly innocent, albeit opinionated, initial, "thecoolguy" statement (I am unsure why I put his name in quotes as if he is literally not cool. I am the not cool one at this point ((or am I?")).  So I hope the coolguy---Of whom I (((may or may not have theoretically))) met in person at the type 2 only--- either wears glasses or knows how to check super small font on the board AND ((((( now I am for real digressing)))) is not not irked by an egregious butchery of English syntax and basically everything else that comes to mind at this point, namely, indecisiveness and digression disorder (((((( D.O.)))))) and basically wants to be uncool with me or decides to agree to disagree )

WARNING (partially) EDITED by  R.O.S.E.S for a subtle, yet careless, Lacking Sleep spoiler.

P.S.
 Save Que

P.S.S.:

bye,

P.S.S. Help me find the year and art of the Angel of the Lord promo I like and add it to this post? followed by a Warning statement: First of Eighteen warnings; Serious infraction of Section 1 (sub-paragraph beta gamma) of the forums brevity laws.

P.S.S.S.

bye #2

P.S.S.S.S.

 OR delete or move this post if you do not want to scare people away from coming to nationals. But only if it is with a suspiciously, passive-aggressive, yet genuinely, disturbed attitude.
 
 



**** actually do not read any of the small font if you are either standing up and/or have no time on your hands

***** any use of  "*"  in this post is indicative of an "explanation" coming later and not any weird multiplication of words and stuff. 
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 19, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
Dude my man I was at the T2 only and plus it was only an opinion I was saying because it works best with the sleeves I have I am sorry if I offended you but saying some on is wrong hurts a bit. I just wanted to share an opinion. ( btw I was 6 foot brown hair and played the combo deck w/ Palestine.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 19, 2019, 02:19:45 PM
Dude my man I was at the T2 only and plus it was only an opinion I was saying because it works best with the sleeves I have I am sorry if I offended you but saying some on is wrong hurts a bit. I just wanted to share an opinion. ( btw I was 6 foot brown hair and played the combo deck w/ Palestine.

He was just messing with you man  ;)

He was making fun of people on the internet (not you) who get uptight about subjective topics (i.e. which AotL art is best?) that don't have a "right" or "wrong" answer.  8)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 19, 2019, 02:24:38 PM
Akkkkkkkk I am so sorry I didnt want to make a ruckus I am so sorry  :-[ :-[
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on April 19, 2019, 02:55:15 PM
No need to apologize...just wanted to make sure you understood it was just Hobbit being a little goofy.  ;D
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: thecoolguy on April 19, 2019, 03:21:47 PM
ok thx for clarifying
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: goalieking87 on April 19, 2019, 05:32:01 PM
Dude my man I was at the T2 only and plus it was only an opinion I was saying because it works best with the sleeves I have I am sorry if I offended you but saying some on is wrong hurts a bit. I just wanted to share an opinion. ( btw I was 6 foot brown hair and played the combo deck w/ Palestine.

He was just messing with you man  ;)

He was making fun of people on the internet (not you) who get uptight about subjective topics (i.e. which AotL art is best?) that don't have a "right" or "wrong" answer.  8)

I was just wondering if he said ďyour wrongĒ on purpose, because it should be ďyouíre wrongĒ

If not, then the irony puts the joke back on him...

Either way, I am sure he was joking too.

 ;D
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on April 19, 2019, 10:59:57 PM
Right, and some light pokes at EmJayBee's style of clarification and thoroughness. But mostly I was reminiscing about my immature discussion attempts with The Schaef, OrangeBus, Minister Polarius etc on the EZ boards. I miss the EZ boards haha we did have a lot of fun and all the "flame wars" became memes and really only came across as harsh to observers, because all the people involved viewed intense discussion as rhetorical exercises.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on April 20, 2019, 11:36:42 AM
Right, and some light pokes at EmJayBee's style of clarification and thoroughness.
Hey! I resemble that remark!

I like your new avatar!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 26, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Alright everyone.  Big news!  ALL open categories are FREE!!!!  Schedule is up!  Please also vote for which type of booster draft you would prefer.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on April 27, 2019, 12:48:47 AM
I know this is a dumb question, but is preregistration possible this year? If so, I'd like to do it.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: goalieking87 on April 27, 2019, 01:17:23 AM
I know this is a dumb question, but is preregistration possible this year? If so, I'd like to do it.

I am a firm believer that there is such a thing as a dumb question (although I also appreciate the sentiment of the expression that there is not).  However, this would not be one of them.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Master Q on April 28, 2019, 03:09:33 PM
MP booster is and will always be the way to go. You will not change my mind.

Free open categories! That's pretty great!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: dermo4christ on April 30, 2019, 06:44:45 AM
Will the new participant promos be tournament legal at Nats? Meaning once you receive a set for completing a category can you put then in your deck for the next one?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Gabe on April 30, 2019, 08:54:05 AM
Will the new participant promos be tournament legal at Nats? Meaning once you receive a set for completing a category can you put then in your deck for the next one?

Since both cards will be available prior to Nats with different art I donít see why not. But the final decision isnít up to me.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: RyanErtmer on May 03, 2019, 10:36:08 AM
If you voted for 2 player booster then you are a Liberal. Change my mind.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 03, 2019, 11:11:51 AM
If you voted for 2 player booster then you are a Liberal. Change my mind.

"Well you seem Timmy, you drafted 15 Heroes, and Johnny only drafted 3 Heroes, so we're going to give him 6 of yours..."
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: 777Godspeed on May 03, 2019, 11:17:57 AM
"... and because National Champs are so successful and in the top 1% we are gonna subsidize you by taking one of their decks and giving it to you. We are generous on their behalf."   ???

Godspeed,
Mike
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: goalieking87 on May 03, 2019, 11:43:19 AM
So, I hate politics because... well, itís political.

Anyway, while I can appreciate the humor of the comments that have been made, I do want to point out that the comments could end up inadvertently offending people. Besides hijacking the Nats thread, while I believe all of the comments so far have been in jest, it would probably be best for them not to go any further.

For clarification, I am not offended in the least.  I try to stay out of politics and am not easily offended by extremes on either side.  I am simply trying to make sure we are respectful and not create unnecessary Strife (https://thejambi.github.io/RedemptionCCGViewer/?GYXgygLgTglsCmQ).

In regard to 2P vs MP booster, I think itís interesting that 2P votes have significantly exceeded MP votes. Personally, I think more strategy is required in 2P than MP because you actually have to build a solid deck (which I am guessing is the original intent of booster) rather than just get the strongest Heroes and no defense. I also appreciate 2P from the standpoint of collection purposes because you can intentionally draft a defensive card without feeling like you are sacrificing your ability to win any games because you didnít get that mediocre offensive card that has big numbers.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Kevinthedude on May 03, 2019, 12:04:54 PM
I like 2 player booster solely because of the intrinsic flaw multi player Redemption has: you can lose without ever interacting with the winning player. In constructed this is slightly helped by dominants so you usually get at least some interaction options but in booster those basically don't exist.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 03, 2019, 12:31:29 PM
So far pretty good turn out on the poll that has only been up a week.  I'm going to leave it for at least another week, just to see if there is any swaying.  I'm totally fine with trying to convince other people for your side of the fence for booster, just don't do it here please!  Anyways, after this poll is done we will be voting on what sets we would like to see in booster, followed by a very interesting and possibly new feature at Nationals (after the sets)!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Master Q on May 03, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Even though I abhor our 'PC' culture, yes, our posts were joking. You could easily swap liberal for the other side and it could still work (maybe even more so). ;)

I made my stance on 2p vs Mp booster some time ago, so I won't go digging that up. It's just a shame that my favorite category is being warped into something else. But I won't make a big deal out of it if the majority leans that way. If both were offered it would be perfect, but I'm not too interested in making the trip to nats to play something I don't enjoy.  :2cents:
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 03, 2019, 01:28:06 PM
Even though I abhor our 'PC' culture, yes, our posts were joking. You could easily swap liberal for the other side and it could still work (maybe even more so). ;)

I made my stance on 2p vs Mp booster some time ago, so I won't go digging that up. It's just a shame that my favorite category is being warped into something else. But I won't make a big deal out of it if the majority leans that way. If both were offered it would be perfect, but I'm not too interested in making the trip to nats to play something I don't enjoy.  :2cents:

I'm hoping for the day where we can have both types of Booster offered.  Obviously for that to happen we would have to split it at ALL tournament levels for the RNRS points to go to the correct place.  As crazy as it is, I would actually play both boosters over the other categories.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 03, 2019, 01:31:18 PM
At one point I suggested replacing T1 MP with Booster MP (and thus offering both 2P and MP Booster).

I don't dislike T1 MP like some do, but I do think Booster MP would be the more popular category of the two.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Master Q on May 04, 2019, 11:14:05 AM
Quote from: Crashfach2002
As crazy as it is, I would actually play both boosters over the other categories.

Not crazy, because I would do the same. And I know at least one other person who would as well, so there must be others. :thumbup:
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 04, 2019, 04:03:46 PM
If you voted for 2 player booster then you are a Liberal. Change my mind.

Jehoshaphat....Imo, 2-player booster is better when there are inexperienced players in the field, and multi boost is better when everyone knows what to do (and can remember what to do Ryan). If that doesn't change your mind I'll your dip your Leviathan collection in Tartaros  sauce and make you eat it.





Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: RyanErtmer on May 14, 2019, 08:20:25 PM
If you voted for 2 player booster then you are a Liberal. Change my mind.

Jehoshaphat....Imo, 2-player booster is better when there are inexperienced players in the field, and multi boost is better when everyone knows what to do (and can remember what to do Ryan). If that doesn't change your mind I'll your dip your Leviathan collection in Tartaros  sauce and make you eat it.

Sounds tasty bring it on!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 27, 2019, 10:16:09 AM
Alright everyone,

We have some big news I meant to present before today, but at least it is here now.  We want to see what you want to do during our Type 1 day on Friday.  There are multiple ideas on what can be done, but want to give everyone a voice and have them discuss what they would like to do and get a feel for people for people who have dealt with the current ideas.  So we have 5 ideas for how we could finish out they Type 1 tournament.

1) X rounds of Swiss, just like was done before we started top cut, and what every non-National tournament uses.

2) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people.  This is what we have done currently.

3) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, but finish on Saturday.  This is basically the way we play now but the difference would be that this allows the people who top cut to unwind, relax, sleep and recharge before playing the most important and possibly stressful games the next day.

4) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, play best 2/3 on Saturday.  So this continues the opportunity to allow the top cut people to sleep and refocus, but allows us to implement the 2 out of 3 system.  This would have to go to the next day due to the amount of time it would take.

5) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, play double elimination on Saturday.  This was a brand new idea that we liked and wanted to see what others thought.  Again, it gives everyone a chance to sleep and rest, then allows at least 2 games per person that top cut, and allows them to have "one off game" and still have a chance to win.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Kevinthedude on May 27, 2019, 11:05:25 AM
Alright everyone,

We have some big news I meant to present before today, but at least it is here now.  We want to see what you want to do during our Type 1 day on Friday.  There are multiple ideas on what can be done, but want to give everyone a voice and have them discuss what they would like to do and get a feel for people for people who have dealt with the current ideas.  So we have 5 ideas for how we could finish out they Type 1 tournament.

1) X rounds of Swiss, just like was done before we started top cut, and what every non-National tournament uses.

2) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people.  This is what we have done currently.

3) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, but finish on Saturday.  This is basically the way we play now but the difference would be that this allows the people who top cut to unwind, relax, sleep and recharge before playing the most important and possibly stressful games the next day.

4) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, play best 2/3 on Saturday.  So this continues the opportunity to allow the top cut people to sleep and refocus, but allows us to implement the 2 out of 3 system.  This would have to go to the next day due to the amount of time it would take.

5) X rounds of Swiss then top cut X people, play double elimination on Saturday.  This was a brand new idea that we liked and wanted to see what others thought.  Again, it gives everyone a chance to sleep and rest, then allows at least 2 games per person that top cut, and allows them to have "one off game" and still have a chance to win.

I'd be very excited to see Bo3 games in Redemption. There have been so many times I've thought about how different year's top cuts likely would have played out differently in a scenario with Bo3 and it would be awesome to see it actually happen.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 27, 2019, 11:39:28 AM
I like 3,4, or 5 but prefer 5 because it is easier to get a bad matchup in a robust meta. I don't value your opinion if you like 1)  :angel:


@CrashFach, you should change the voting to 3 options. Swiss, Current top-cut, and #4+#5. Then make an executive decisions with the PtB Redemption electoral college if 4+5 wins. Currently you are splitting votes.

Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Cnakeeyes on May 27, 2019, 12:15:36 PM
The real question for me is if we do a 2day option does it mean who ever makes it cant play in Saturday's categories or will it take place before
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: RedemptionAggie on May 27, 2019, 12:22:48 PM
The real question for me is if we do a 2day option does it mean who ever makes it cant play in Saturday's categories or will it take place before

The 2 day options would basically take all day Saturday, so those that play in top cut couldn't play the other categories.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Sean on May 27, 2019, 12:43:53 PM
The real question for me is if we do a 2day option does it mean who ever makes it cant play in Saturday's categories or will it take place before

The 2 day options would basically take all day Saturday, so those that play in top cut couldn't play the other categories.
I feel like this is a good thing.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Cnakeeyes on May 27, 2019, 01:00:48 PM
I disagree. I for one will not play t1 if a 2 day option wins because I'm not willing to miss a 3rd category and potentially only get 1 or 2 games on the 3rd day.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 27, 2019, 01:34:25 PM
Why can't top cut go until 11pm  on Friday night with (option #4)? All the people that make top cut stay up late anyways and go out to eat. Then they can play on Saturday. If you want to extend it to Saturday it should be double elimination AND 2/3 right?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 27, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
Why can't top cut go until 11pm  on Friday night with (option #4)? All the people that make top cut stay up late anyways and go out to eat. Then they can play on Saturday. If you want to extend it to Saturday it should be double elimination AND 2/3 right?


That is not at all accurate.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Bobbert on May 27, 2019, 02:04:38 PM
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.

In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Cnakeeyes on May 27, 2019, 02:10:02 PM
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.

In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
This is exactly what I meant. I like the 2 day options just not the potential forfeiting a 3rd category. You would pretty much be telling those who do good Friday "you did good now you get to play less"
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 27, 2019, 02:29:52 PM
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.

In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
This is exactly what I meant. I like the 2 day options just not the potential forfeiting a 3rd category. You would pretty much be telling those who do good Friday "you did good now you get to play less"

@Cnakeeyes - If we play best of 3, you'll get plenty of games in.

@Bobbert - Or you could play the category that's against T1. I will admit the teams conundrum is more problematic
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Cnakeeyes on May 27, 2019, 02:45:40 PM
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.

In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
This is exactly what I meant. I like the 2 day options just not the potential forfeiting a 3rd category. You would pretty much be telling those who do good Friday "you did good now you get to play less"

@Cnakeeyes - If we play best of 3, you'll get plenty of games in.

@Bobbert - Or you could play the category that's against T1. I will admit the teams conundrum is more problematic


not if you lose 1st round. I'm just saying I don't like the 2day idea and why. If 2 day wins I'll be playing t2 for the soul reason of I want to play a Saturday category, and I'm able to flip to that. Some other people can't and if they make top cut could have to drop from a category they want to play Saturday.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm throwing a fit, I really don't care 1 way or the other. Every year ive gone it's always been a last minute which category am I playing so this would just simplify 1 day for me.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 27, 2019, 04:32:36 PM
Why can't top cut go until 11pm  on Friday night with (option #4)? All the people that make top cut stay up late anyways and go out to eat. Then they can play on Saturday. If you want to extend it to Saturday it should be double elimination AND 2/3 right?


That is not at all accurate.

I agree that the bolded statement is completely false, yet the generalization is absolutely true. If you want to go to bed before it's over either lose or stay up later. All my intentions are coming out now they were trapped in my subconscious  ;) I am good enough at type 1 to have hope to make top cut yet realistically, I know I will likely lose and play against a watered down TEAMS field   :maul:
OR

I like #5 better than #4, though my bias is I am bad at TEAMS, T1, Multi, and sealed, played double eliminations 2/3 the next day.

#6 is my personal favorite. Extend the amount of people that get into top cut and play normal swiss from there. That way it is a bit longer but people can get rest if they want to AND play categories the next day. 
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 28, 2019, 10:14:13 AM
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed. It means that anyone who's excited for Saturday's categories (and/or they stand a chance at doing well for RNRS) has incentive to not play to their best ability on Friday, which is something that I think we want to avoid. On the other side of the spectrum, I for one know I would be very put out if my Teams partner and I were planning decks/strategies beforehand and he managed to make top cut. I'd be happy for him but at the same time be incredibly disappointed that we didn't get to play Teams together.

In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.

This sums up my thoughts as well.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on May 28, 2019, 10:53:33 AM
I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone who wants to do well in T12P having to be okay with not playing Teams/Multi/Sealed.
The decision is a value judgement. No one--no matter what their standing--is going to be forced to play in a top cut if they would prefer to play another event. Switching to a two day format means only that each individual player would need to make a personal decision as to whether participating in a possibly "fairer" top cut is worth forgoing playing in a third event.

Quote
In principle I love 4 and 5, but I'm not sure I like this suggestion for implementing them.
Just to be clear, given time constraints that are not a lot of options for implementing a more involved top cut. The only other option would be to curtail the number of meaningful rounds in the qualification (from seven--for swiss plus single elimination top cut--down to four or five).
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 28, 2019, 11:35:19 AM
Quote
Switching to a two day format means only that each individual player would need to make a personal decision as to whether participating in a possibly "fairer" top cut is worth forgoing playing in a third event.

Except it's not completely a personal decision when you factor in the issue of TEAMS--then the decision affects two people.

If a player simply had to choose between playing Top Cut Day 2 and playing Sealed or T1 MP, then I would be more inclined to go with the two day option.

Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 28, 2019, 11:56:58 AM
To clarify one thing rather quickly.  This two-day tournament idea has been around for several years now, but never implemented or even brought up, unless I missed it, because of the potential "controversy" or difficulty of making it work for everyone.  The main reason it is being presented here is that someone mentioned it to me and I like the idea but wasn't sure how to "make it work."  So please keep the conversation moving and going forward!  I honestly feel a two-day system is better for people involved in top cut, to relieve extra stress and fatigue.  But to do it we have to figure out a way that works for most.  Obviously, we aren't going to do anything 100% of people agree with, but if we can find a happy medium and then adjust future schedules to make it work, then we can basically count this as a win!  If we can make it work this year, then we have an even bigger win.  If we decide to stick with what we have always done or been doing, then we simply had a good conversation and move on.  No loss in talking about it!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Sean on May 28, 2019, 01:33:40 PM
In order to accommodate the additional day, has anyone ever considered playing Sunday afternoon?  I know this poses a logistical issue with morning service and most likely configuration of the church to accommodate the tournament but just putting it out there.

Also makes it hard for people to get back for whatever they need to get back to on Monday.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 28, 2019, 01:55:10 PM
In order to accommodate the additional day, has anyone ever considered playing Sunday afternoon?  I know this poses a logistical issue with morning service and most likely configuration of the church to accommodate the tournament but just putting it out there.

Also makes it hard for people to get back for whatever they need to get back to on Monday.

I would assume the reason this has never happened is due to the church not wanting people to have people sleeping there the night before the service so that it could be put back "in order" for the service itself.  It would also make everyone who drives have to wait an extra day to head home.  That would cause a potential issue for people carpooling as people who aren't playing on Sunday afternoon would only be at the tournament because one of their people is.  It would also potentially cause people to have to take another day off from work due to the late start home.

While I play Redemption on Sunday afternoons with my playgroup and students during the summers, and some during the school year and the church wouldn't have a problem with the afternoon play.  I would not be able to have anyone stay Saturday night at the church due to the reasons listed above, plus due to the fact I only get away with people sleeping at the church in the first place because they really like me!  :P
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Schaefer on May 28, 2019, 03:47:33 PM
While many other TCGs have 2 days for tournaments there are some differences which makes me feel that currently Redemption shouldn't implement it.

First is that the playing field is larger. For MTG for instance in larger tournaments they play 12+ rounds to determine day 2 players which is usually a top 32 or 64. I know Yugioh also has a top 32/64 system but I'm not completely sure on the number of swiss rounds. Redemption doesnt have that kind of need for a top 64 or 32 and so it's hard to justify a 2 day format based on that.

2nd is that Redemption has multiple competitive formats at tournaments which is not the case for most of the other TCGs. MTG has multiple competitive formats but they usually arent all at one tournament or you choose between 2. They also have an interesting TEAMs based format where usually 3/4 people are to a team and each chooses a format to play for the tournament and Team scores are based on the combined scores of each. In order to accommodate players playing multiple formats over 3 days though is incredibly difficult and not everyone will be happy. T12P is obviously the most popular and has the largest playerbase but trying to extend the format to 2 days will cut into their other playing options which somewhat punishes players for doing well. Worse if they do get into the top cut and don't end up placing they may well lose an opportunity to place in another category which they had a good chance at. Teams further complicates the issue with top cut affecting other players.

The biggest reasons I can be in favor of going to 2 days for T12P is for "fairness" which to me if were talking that we need to discuss lunch as it's not right that playing a long game right before lunch can leave you less than 10mins for lunch where as a quick game can get 45mins to an hr. (Happened to me more than once at Nats so we cant say it doesnt happen) but besides that I dont see how having that extra day is any more fair than just extending top cut play after say a dinner break or something as it still offers a break and the 2 day system offers unfair things to the players who do well and their teammates.

The other reason to go to 2 days in my mind is yo extend top cut which I'm not sure is necessarily needed.

However I do think that a 2 day system could be implemented  if categories were eliminated or moved. Cutting categories allows for more time for formats however it does leave some downtime that may need to be filled for those that dont make top cut.

I do think though a potential future solution (although not implementable this year) would be to hold multiple National level events but offer different categories at each. This would create a problem for those who cannot afford to travel to multiple events if they wanted to play them all but logistically the events would be smoother and players would could not make one event may be able to make the other. Granted I'm not sure that This is the direction the Redemption community would want to go.

There will always be some issues and issues that will leave people unhappy but it's just a question of what are were looking for out of Redemption National level events and what is the best way to achieve that goal. If it's to be a one stop big event for everything 2 day T12P doesnt make sense to me as other categories suffer.

Sorry for the rant. Just thought I would explain why I feel the way I do especially compared to other games.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on May 28, 2019, 04:43:11 PM
The biggest reasons I can be in favor of going to 2 days for T12P is for "fairness" which to me if were talking that we need to discuss lunch as it's not right that playing a long game right before lunch can leave you less than 10mins for lunch where as a quick game can get 45mins to an hr. (Happened to me more than once at Nats so we cant say it doesnt happen) but besides that I dont see how having that extra day is any more fair than just extending top cut play after say a dinner break or something as it still offers a break and the 2 day system offers unfair things to the players who do well and their teammates.
Just a stab at explaining why a two-day format would be more "fair"...

Despite the fact that top tier players all build their decks to be as consistent as possible, everyone has had games where pure randomness in a bad draw (or whatever) has cost them a game. A single elimination tournament (which current top cut is) is inherently going to be most susceptible to a bad (i.e., "unfair") result due to a bad draw.  The way to make the top cut more "fair" is to get rid of the one-and-done format--hence the options for best of 3 play and double elimination.

Unfortunately a best of three top cut will simply not fit in an evening session after a dinner break with any reasonable ending time (for example an 8-player best of three top cut would require time to be set aside for 9 "rounds" of play) while an 8-player top cut with double elimination would require 5 "rounds" to be set aside.  If you make the cut after seven rounds this would mean either a 16- or 12-round day. Sixteen rounds is pretty clearly beyond the reasonable limit. Twelve rounds *may* be doable, but--to be completely fair--I have been a strong proponent of a double elimination top cut so I may be undervaluing how hard it would be to add two games at the end what is already a long day.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: jbeers285 on May 28, 2019, 04:46:16 PM
Itís probably too late this year but Iíd propose that top cut qualifiers who play a second day cut should receive an awesome alt border card of some type. I also believe they should still qualify for the third copy of the nats promo.

I was originally a 2/3 guy but I think I can get on bored with a double elimination. The only stipulation I would have is that the person who makes the final without losing any games should have to be beaten twice by the player who
Climbs back through the losers bracket.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Schaefer on May 28, 2019, 05:02:41 PM
The biggest reasons I can be in favor of going to 2 days for T12P is for "fairness" which to me if were talking that we need to discuss lunch as it's not right that playing a long game right before lunch can leave you less than 10mins for lunch where as a quick game can get 45mins to an hr. (Happened to me more than once at Nats so we cant say it doesnt happen) but besides that I dont see how having that extra day is any more fair than just extending top cut play after say a dinner break or something as it still offers a break and the 2 day system offers unfair things to the players who do well and their teammates.
Just a stab at explaining why a two-day format would be more "fair"...

Despite the fact that top tier players all build their decks to be as consistent as possible, everyone has had games where pure randomness in a bad draw (or whatever) has cost them a game. A single elimination tournament (which current top cut is) is inherently going to be most susceptible to a bad (i.e., "unfair") result due to a bad draw.  The way to make the top cut more "fair" is to get rid of the one-and-done format--hence the options for best of 3 play and double elimination.

Unfortunately a best of three top cut will simply not fit in an evening session after a dinner break with any reasonable ending time (for example an 8-player best of three top cut would require time to be set aside for 9 "rounds" of play) while an 8-player top cut with double elimination would require 5 "rounds" to be set aside.  If you make the cut after seven rounds this would mean either a 16- or 12-round day. Sixteen rounds is pretty clearly beyond the reasonable limit. Twelve rounds *may* be doable, but--to be completely fair--I have been a strong proponent of a double elimination top cut so I may be undervaluing how hard it would be to add two games at the end what is already a long day.

While there is merit to best of 3 format system the system as a whole should change to be best of 3 with a top cut with a 2 day system. At least imo for "fairness" to be achieved. Besides that though it's still completely unfair to do so with multiple events running over the 3 days where other formats have to suffer. Then if we want to talk "fairness" what about "fairness" in those other events? Bad draws happen in every format.

Best 2 of 3 works well for MTG and YuGiOh because they can play games quickly for 1 but also sideboards (much different than the reseve) can completely change the games. Redemption doesn't have that nor is it resource based so you cant be screwed by resource or blamed getting hosed by a card due to not being able to beat a card as you have access to all cards in your list every game. Soul drought is the only thing you can really get screwed on and if that is beating you especially with the measures taken in recent sets to alleviate this in constructed formats it's more of a deckbuilding error more often than not imo. Also concerning consistency, decks have fail rates and that's part of the game. If your decks fail rate is to the point that you need a best of 3 then your consistency may need to be looked at in deck building.

I'm not saying theres not merit to best of 3 but due to Redemption being Resourceless' sideboards being non existent, and consistency more a deckbuilding factor and part of the game imo I dont think its truly merited in Redemption.

I could see double elimination before best of 3 quite easily but I think if that were the issue then we would need to play double elimination from the get go and move towards a top cut which would likely still require a day 2 but may not depending on field size. Also other formats besides T1 would need to be looked at for "fairness". Just cause it's the biggest doesnt mean it should be any "fairer" than the others.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 28, 2019, 05:09:14 PM
I know I've posted a couple times already, but I do feel pretty strongly about this so I'll add a few more thoughts in case anyone is as of yet undecided.

First, I will be the first to say that as much as anyone, I would like to have as fair a system as possible in determining a winner. The pros and cons of Swiss vs Top Cut have all been discussed before, so I am not going to delve into that, but I would ask that we also consider the "fairness" (or lack thereof) to TEAMS players whose partners end up making Top Cut. Perhaps this is not true of all pairs of teammates who play each year at Nationals, but I know that my brother Jayden and I (who have been TEAMS partners since the 2013-14 season) have invested many, many hours of prep and practice each year that we decided to take a shot at the TEAMS event. If one of us were to play T1 and make Day 2 of Top Cut, which is not an easy accomplishment, I know it would be very hard for either of us to pass up that opportunity, but I believe either of us would because we committed to playing the TEAMS event with each other. I understand that some people might be in the mindset of "If I don't make Top Cut, I'll just find a friend who wants to do TEAMS and we'll build decks the night before" and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having that plan. However, that is not the case for all players. Now for me, I can decide to play T2 MP on Friday and even though I am considering playing T1 2P this year, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to pass on it because I really enjoy T2 MP, (especially at Nationals). However, for people who simply would not enjoy T2 MP, but are planning to do TEAMS, that would put them in a really tough spot.

My second point is about the perceived lack of fairness in the current systems (1 Day Swiss and 1 Day Top Cut). Have there ever been deserving players who got knocked out of winning/placing because of the system used in a given year? Absolutely. All the way back in 2005, my brother Jonathan took 2nd place at the largest T1 2P event in Redemption history even though he and the first place finisher were both 9-1 and my brother had won the head to head match-up between them. At the time, LS differential was the first tie-breaker and that determined the winner. Last year, Josiah B lost in the first round of Top Cut and so even though he was still technically in 3rd place (points-wise) after the first round of Top Cut, he was knocked out. In 2017 Josh K went from 1st to 4th place after a final round loss in Swiss style. My point is that "deserving" players miss out pretty much every year.

That being said, can anyone really point to a year that had an undeserving winner or top 3 placer? No matter which system was used, the eventual winner has always had several tough match-ups to get through even if there have been some years (in Swiss style) where the first and second place player did not play (such as 2017 with JD and Josh P). Each year, there are several players with a highly tuned decks who play extremely well throughout the tournament and would be deserving of winning, but there can only be one winner each year.

For the reasons above, I believe it is best to keep T1 2P to a one day event (either Swiss or Top Cut), and seeing as how most people seem to prefer Top Cut of some kind, I voted for the 1 Day Top Cut option.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: jbeers285 on May 28, 2019, 05:17:20 PM
I find value in eliminating the top 8, 12 or 16 players from the third day field. It gives other players a chance to place or win who otherwise might not have that opportunity.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on May 28, 2019, 06:06:19 PM
I was originally a 2/3 guy but I think I can get on bored with a double elimination. The only stipulation I would have is that the person who makes the final without losing any games should have to be beaten twice by the player who Climbs back through the losers bracket.
Absolutely. Otherwise it is not a double elimination!

Then if we want to talk "fairness" what about "fairness" in those other events? Bad draws happen in every format.
Yes, but bad draws have the largest impact on T1-2P.

Anyway I understand what you are saying and do not disagree with much of it.

Quote
I could see double elimination before best of 3 quite easily but I think if that were the issue then we would need to play double elimination from the get go and move towards a top cut
This I  do disagree with. Having folks come to Nationals only to have a quarter of them done playing after the second round is a really, really bad idea. Swiss is a great way to run a qualifying event... arguably much better than any form of elimination event.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Schaefer on May 28, 2019, 06:19:38 PM
Quote
Quote
I could see double elimination before best of 3 quite easily but I think if that were the issue then we would need to play double elimination from the get go and move towards a top cut
This I  do disagree with. Having folks come to Nationals only to have a quarter of them done playing after the second round is a really, really bad idea. Swiss is a great way to run a qualifying event... arguably much better than any form of elimination event.

You're completely right here. I was mostly just looking at time wise at that point. Ultimately I am not in favor of a day 2 at this point in time due to the downsides, but if they can be eliminated I would be in favor of a double elimination for day 2. Regardless I think top cut is the way to go.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 28, 2019, 06:22:18 PM
I find value in eliminating the top 8, 12 or 16 players from the third day field. It gives other players a chance to place or win who otherwise might not have that opportunity.

That's a fair point (and one of the reasons I think it's better to pair T1 2P and T2 2P, but that's a different topic), but in my opinion Sealed and T1 MP are already categories that are more wide open in terms of who has a chance to win.

For the record, I would also support a 2 Day T1 2P tournament (especially if the field was 50+ people) with 1 day of Swiss and then 1 day of Double Elimination if the schedule were such that it didn't impact TEAMS. Perhaps that is something we could look at for future years.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 28, 2019, 07:33:28 PM
I find value in eliminating the top 8, 12 or 16 players from the third day field. It gives other players a chance to place or win who otherwise might not have that opportunity.

That's a fair point (and one of the reasons I think it's better to pair T1 2P and T2 2P, but that's a different topic), but in my opinion Sealed and T1 MP are already categories that are more wide open in terms of who has a chance to win.

For the record, I would also support a 2 Day T1 2P tournament (especially if the field was 50+ people) with 1 day of Swiss and then 1 day of Double Elimination if the schedule were such that it didn't impact TEAMS. Perhaps that is something we could look at for future years.

What if we play teams the night of Day 2 of T1 2P this year? And then in the future play TEAMS on Wednesday night?

OR

Top cut of T1 2 player on Day 2 is TEAMS? The people that are the best at type 1 two player are the best at TEAMS let's end the facade ahahaha Are you keeping track of all our new ideas Fachman?  ::)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Bobbert on May 28, 2019, 07:57:02 PM
What if we play teams the night of Day 2 of T1 2P this year? And then in the future play TEAMS on Wednesday night?

So, our solution to not making the top T12P players play while exhausted is to make everyone (including many of those players) play a different format while exhausted?  ???
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Gabe on May 28, 2019, 08:03:46 PM
Iím certain that some of the regular officials (judges, mc, etc) do not want to spend our nights running another official event. Part of the draw to make it to Nats every year is to see distant friends again. That includes time for socializing and meals together.

I love a good competition as much as anyone but it needs to be balanced with other things that are important too.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 28, 2019, 08:25:46 PM
Iím certain that some of the regular officials (judges, mc, etc) do not want to spend our nights running another official event. Part of the draw to make it to Nats every year is to see distant friends again. That includes time for socializing and meals together.

I love a good competition as much as anyone but it needs to be balanced with other things that are important too.

Agreed. The unofficial events (Type Half, Iron Man, Cube Draft) are perfect for the evening time for those who want to keep playing, but official events should end before dinner time.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 29, 2019, 12:12:17 AM
Are you keeping track of all our new ideas Fachman?  ::)

Nope!  But Iím loving the discussion.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheJaylor on May 29, 2019, 01:54:08 AM
As someone who is not planning to play T1-2P and would love to give more people a reason to play T2-MP, if Justin does end up playing T1-2P and cuts, I don't wanna be the reason he doesn't go for the win.

Even before the tournament he has to decide if he wants to play T1 and risk cutting when we're planning to play Teams, which may make it so he doesn't play T1 even though he would like to for some weird reason.

Anyway, this isn't meant to be about us, I'm just using it as an example that can be applied generally. Then again, I don't know if anyone else out there is really putting enough effort into prepping for Teams to make not playing T1 worth it, but at least a few people have noted that they still want to play three categories regardless.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Josh on May 29, 2019, 08:05:30 AM
I don't know if anyone else out there is really putting enough effort into prepping for Teams to make not playing T1 worth it, but at least a few people have noted that they still want to play three categories regardless.

I am.  I voted for option 2 because I will be playing Teams no matter what.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Cnakeeyes on May 29, 2019, 09:16:18 AM
I don't know if anyone else out there is really putting enough effort into prepping for Teams to make not playing T1 worth it, but at least a few people have noted that they still want to play three categories regardless.

I am.  I voted for option 2 because I will be playing Teams no matter what.
Whos your team mate
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 29, 2019, 10:27:24 AM
What if we play teams the night of Day 2 of T1 2P this year? And then in the future play TEAMS on Wednesday night?

So, our solution to not making the top T12P players play while exhausted is to make everyone (including many of those players) play a different format while exhausted?  ???

That is a ridiculous solution, I agree, so obviously you have straw manned my point or missed it all together. You ought to keep your snide comments to yourself next time and spend more time thinking about what other people mean first. This schedule allows Type 1-2 players the ability to play Type 1-2 at a much higher competitive level AND play TEAMS that's it. I hate to quote Hannah Montana here but "We can sleep when we are dead".
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Bobbert on May 29, 2019, 11:29:06 AM
If I'm understanding your suggestion correctly, your amended schedule is this:

Friday: T12P and T2MP
Saturday (morning/early afternoon): T12P Top Cut, T1Multi, Sealed
Saturday (late afternoon/evening): Teams

I'm sure that some Teams players would be happy to sit out and watch Top Cut, but I would also assume that most won't, and would rather play one of the other events while waiting for Teams. While I'm all for Sealed getting more participation, this would lead to a late event, on the last day of the tournament, after many players had already participated in an event that day. Do you think everyone's going to play to their best under those circumstances?

If my comment brought offense, I apologize. Perhaps I should have phrased my concern more gently. That said, given Gabe's comment, I don't think everyone agrees with your Hannah Montana quote.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 29, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)

I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o

 8)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on May 29, 2019, 01:33:22 PM
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)

I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o

 8)

I'm sure we can make that happen!   ;)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 29, 2019, 01:35:47 PM
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)

I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o

 8)

Nope
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on May 29, 2019, 02:16:07 PM
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)

I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o

 8)

Nope, I'd rather play instead of judging.

FTFY  ;D
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 29, 2019, 03:43:45 PM
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)

I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o

 8)

Nope, I'd rather play instead of judging.

FTFY  ;D

Still nope
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Gabe on May 29, 2019, 04:06:01 PM
John will have a mobile toddler and a newborn by Nationals. Sleep may never be at a higher premium for him.  o_O
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 29, 2019, 04:33:35 PM
The only category I could ever envision being played at night would be T2 MP...because all of us who actually play it are crazy like that anyway... ::)

I'm sure John would be willing to judge as long as one player was using an ANB deck... :o

 8)

In Boston they played t1 multi in the evening. Someone who had a stereotypical multiplayer deck got stuck with 3 other M.A.S.K players the first round ahahaha.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on June 05, 2019, 05:13:08 PM
Is Type A being offered this year?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on June 07, 2019, 03:24:33 PM
Is Type A being offered this year?

I would assume this will always be offered if there are enough players for it, which is basically 3-4.  I have at least 2 players that qualify, and 2 that are only a year or two over the "12 year old cut off"
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on June 12, 2019, 10:00:52 AM
While the poll had a lot fewer people vote on it than I think we would have liked the typical one day top cut had more votes than all the others combined, so that is what we will go with.  Do people have a preference on how many people should be in the top cut?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: jbeers285 on June 12, 2019, 10:15:16 AM
 100+ players 16 top cut
40-99 players  8 top cut
32-40 players 6 with top 2 seeds getting a bye
31 or less 4 player top cut
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on June 12, 2019, 10:26:40 AM
My suggestion:

<40 -- Top Cut of 4

40-120 -- Top Cut of 8

>120 -- Top Cut of 16


That way most years will be Top Cut of 8 (which overall seems to have worked well), but would allow for some adjustment in years where we have a much lower or much higher turnout. (Incidentally, the record for T1 2P is 123 in 2005).

While I kind of like Josiah's idea for a bye, I think it's too narrow of a range. One thing that might be interesting to consider for future years is that if there is a player who is undefeated--with no ties or time out wins--going into Top Cut, we do a Top Cut of 7 with that person getting a bye in round 1.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on June 12, 2019, 01:49:52 PM
100+ players 16 top cut
40-99 players  8 top cut
32-40 players 6 with top 2 seeds getting a bye
31 or less 4 player top cut

 +1

Ultimately this is a conversation for the top type 1 players only (or past veterans). What top cut format does John, Josiah, Gabe, Josh K, Jay, Kevin etc prefer? I am honored to be included in this public discussion, it speaks to the unique nature of this game. With that being said, I am always for more top cut over less. With type 1 not running concurrently with type 2 we will should have enough to do top 16!

@thread remember people have been very hurt in the past when they actually should have cut and did not. The smaller the cut the more you punish unique decks or reward meta decks.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on June 12, 2019, 02:40:29 PM
I love that I've been allowed to do it.  Our leadership both all the way from Rob down has been super cool about all of this.  I know other games have leaders that want to make all of the decisions and not give anyone a choice.  While I have run everything by them before I ever put it in the public, there have been zero responses that tell me I HAD to do that, which is awesome!  So for those people who get frustrated because a ruling doesn't make sense, or they simply don't like it, know that we honestly do have leadership who listens and cares about people's thoughts and feelings.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on June 12, 2019, 02:49:57 PM
Double posting because it also makes me thankful for this community.  You guys have been really cool about things that come down the pipe even if you don't always like it or agree with it.  You guys are also super supportive of people you don't even necessarily know!  The fact that I have people that have bought from me and donated money to help people get into Nationals for free (outside of closed products) is probably something other games aren't willing to do.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on June 12, 2019, 03:15:23 PM
@thread remember people have been very hurt in the past when they actually should have cut and did not. The smaller the cut the more you punish unique decks or reward meta decks.

By "should have cut and did not" are you referring to people who missed out on Top Cut by LS differential?
That does make sense to me--for example, someone could narrowly lose their first two games, but then end up playing less challenging opponents for the final 5 games and produce a very high LS differential. Meanwhile, another player could win their first five games by more moderate scores, but then lose their final two games against top players also competing for Top Cut and end up with a LS differential that is not very high. The first person might then make Top Cut over the second person because of the LS differential even though the second person likely played a much more difficult line-up of players but still got just as many wins as the first player.

To that end, I'm not advocating for strength of schedule to be incorporated into the determination of who makes Top Cut, but perhaps something along the lines of golf tournaments (i.e. anyone with X number of points or higher makes Top Cut).  For example, last year John was in 8th place going into top cut and was .5 points ahead of 3 other players so cutting at 8 made sense. If there had been another player tied with John, then we could have kept the cut point the same, but John and that other player would have done a "play-in" game essentially to get down to a final 8.

In 2017, there were 10 players with 15 or more points after round 7 (plus 3 more people with 14 points) so the cut could have been 10 or 13 (had we done top cut).

In 2016, 2 players with 15 points made top cut and 3 did not. What we could have done was make 15 points the cut number (giving us initially 11 players in top cut) and then do a "bye round" of 6v11, 7v10 and 8v9 (with 1-5 getting a bye) to get down to the final 8.

In 2015, 5 players with 15 points made top cut and 2 did not (with 1 missing by a single LS). We could have done a top 10 cut, with 7v10 and 8v9 playing the "bye round" to get down to 8.

In 2014, 4 players with 15 points made it and 4 did not. Top 12 cut means top 4 get byes (which makes even more sense with 8 players at 15 and 4 with more than 15) and we end up with 8 players after the Top Cut "bye round."

In 2013 (first year of top cut), 8 players had 15 points or more (with 9th place only having 13) so a Top 8 cut worked with no one losing out on LS differential and no "bye round" needed.

EDIT* -- added numbers from 2013 and 2017.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 12, 2019, 04:37:18 PM
Do people have a preference on how many people should be in the top cut?
All players move on into a round-robin top cut.

On second thought, that probably won't fit into the allotted time. :P
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on June 13, 2019, 11:47:03 AM
Every example Justin used was awesome. Each example he stated logically what should have happened and the benefits of it. Why not quit doing this over and over and make the decision based on the number of potential participants for top cut. Odd number gives bye round, even everyone plays but that would exclude people who had the same amount of points but differential (sometimes based on opponents) could exclude them. So the actual decision would be done after the initial Swiss rounds based on scores to determine a fair number. Pretty much the same time frame, maybe a game more or less depending on total participation. Obviously thereís no reason to top cut 12 if only 30 people play t1.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on June 13, 2019, 12:27:05 PM
To clarify, the number of games in the "bye" round would be based on how many games were needed to leave 8 players for the second round.

If 15 people made the cut, 14 would play (giving 7 winners) and only the top player would get a bye. If 13 people made the cut, then 10 people would play (5 winners) and the top 3 would receive a bye.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 13, 2019, 03:26:47 PM
A more serious suggestion here...

I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

There is a (less than ;)) 0% chance that you will have more than 16 players will meet this criteria, so one additional play-in round for the lowest-ranked players may be necessary. 
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on June 13, 2019, 03:58:16 PM
I think it still needs to be based on points due to ties and time-out games where players can get partial points. If I have 4 full wins and 3 time out losses, that's still 15 points which has historically been enough to be in the running for top cut depending on differential.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 13, 2019, 04:26:14 PM
I think it still needs to be based on points due to ties and time-out games where players can get partial points.
You can do points if you want (although X-2 or better just sounds more prestigious :P). I just wanted to agree with your contention that having a fixed criterion up front is a great idea.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on June 14, 2019, 12:20:21 PM
A more serious suggestion here...

I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

There is a (less than ;)) 0% chance that you will have more than 16 players will meet this criteria, so one additional play-in round for the lowest-ranked players may be necessary.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top. Why not just expand top cut to 16 regardless of attendance? Then someone could probably 3 lose or timeout win, depending on the numbers, and still top. There are going to be so many talented players this year playing the game at (arguable) it's competitive pinnacle. I do like Justin's proposition but ironically it favors cookie cutter decks that win in 10 minutes more than a top cut of 16 like Josiah suggested early (let's face we will have over 100 for type 1!).

These are all great ideas. I am glad this thread has not diverged into flame wars- besides a few passive aggressive -1's- but rather refining ideas!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red on June 14, 2019, 04:15:24 PM
A more serious suggestion here...

I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

There is a (less than ;)) 0% chance that you will have more than 16 players will meet this criteria, so one additional play-in round for the lowest-ranked players may be necessary.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top. Why not just expand top cut to 16 regardless of attendance? Then someone could probably 3 lose or timeout win, depending on the numbers, and still top. There are going to be so many talented players this year playing the game at (arguable) it's competitive pinnacle. I do like Justin's proposition but ironically it favors cookie cutter decks that win in 10 minutes more than a top cut of 16 like Josiah suggested early (let's face we will have over 100 for type 1!).

These are all great ideas. I am glad this thread has not diverged into flame wars- besides a few passive aggressive -1's- but rather refining ideas!
16 players would have been exactly half the field in Texas. Since I've not yet chimed in, I'm personally more in favor of a scaling cut based on attendance. So if nationals garnered 60+ in T1-2P, I'm more in favor of a top sixteen or all x-2s make cut, but if the attendance is between 30-40, then the cut cannot exceed eight players, and arguably even that number causes problems if even one game goes to a weird time-out scenario.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 14, 2019, 05:04:56 PM
I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top.
I think you are missing the point. In Justin's list for the past X years there have been a bunch of people with 2 losses (15 points after 7 rounds) that did not make the cut. This is a way to ensure that none of those players get knocked out of the top cut because of tie-breaker junk. Get to 15 you are in.

Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on June 14, 2019, 05:18:12 PM
Correct. I'm not sure about declaring a point total prior to the tournament starting though. For example, if something like this happens:

Player 1: 18
Player 2: 18
Player 3: 18
Player 4: 15
Players 5-10: 14

Then we don't want to just have a top 4 cut. Instead we would cut at 14 points (so 10 players), have the 7 v 10 and 8 v 9 "bye round" and then create the Top 8 bracket from there.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on June 15, 2019, 09:21:31 AM
I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top.
I think you are missing the point. In Justin's list for the past X years there have been a bunch of people with 2 losses (15 points after 7 rounds) that did not make the cut. This is a way to ensure that none of those players get knocked out of the top cut because of tie-breaker junk. Get to 15 you are in.
I understand why doing Swiss (X-2) and top cut is useful but I am saying having a larger cut at smaller attendance than you should is basically the same. In Justin's list the cut was smaller and they would have topped under the proposed change. I worry that being too transparent upfront will effect how people play after they have lost, something like cheating for good and letting their friends win. Personally I really doing both together Justin said.


16 players would have been exactly half the field in Texas. Since I've not yet chimed in, I'm personally more in favor of a scaling cut based on attendance. So if nationals garnered 60+ in T1-2P, I'm more in favor of a top sixteen or all x-2s make cut, but if the attendance is between 30-40, then the cut cannot exceed eight players, and arguably even that number causes problems if even one game goes to a weird time-out scenario.
[/quote]

Why not top 16 at 60+ AND X-2?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on June 15, 2019, 11:27:19 AM
Alright everyone,

I finally posted a link to the "official hotel."  It is the same one we have used the last 2 times everyone came here for National.  You get a pretty good rate for all 3 days, and it is reserved under Chris Redemption.

The pre-registration should be up in the next day or two.  I'm having some people look at it and register to make sure I haven't missed anything before releasing it to the masses!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Mayor on June 26, 2019, 12:31:44 PM
Can I get the official schedule of events please?  I am driving up Friday evening from Nashville and staying over night.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on June 26, 2019, 12:56:22 PM
Can I get the official schedule of events please?  I am driving up Friday evening from Nashville and staying over night.

The schedule on the first post is official, and just changed it to say that.

Official Schedule:

Thursday:  T2 - 2 Player (Free!) / Booster Draft 2 Player ($20.00)
Friday:  T1 - 2 Player (Top Cut X players) (Free!) / T2 - Multi (Free!)
Saturday:  Teams (Free!) / T1 - Multi (Free!) / Sealed ($15.00)

Look forward to finally meeting you!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Mayor on June 26, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Curses.  Was hoping booster would be Saturday. 
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on June 26, 2019, 03:53:16 PM
We shouldíve voted on it.  :laugh: ;)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Cnakeeyes on July 08, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
Can I get the official schedule of events please?  I am driving up Friday evening from Nashville and staying over night.

The schedule on the first post is official, and just changed it to say that.

Official Schedule:

Thursday:  T2 - 2 Player (Free!) / Booster Draft 2 Player ($20.00)
Friday:  T1 - 2 Player (Top Cut X players) (Free!) / T2 - Multi (Free!)
Saturday:  Teams (Free!) / T1 - Multi (Free!) / Sealed ($15.00)

Look forward to finally meeting you!

What time do you plan on starting each day?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Reth on July 15, 2019, 05:48:53 PM
Short question: Will there be an online tournament in parallel this year too (would be great - no prices necessary from my point of view, just the opportunity to play a tournament!)?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: faithraider on July 17, 2019, 12:15:45 AM
HEY Gents

    I SEE almost nothing detailing the special after hours events at Nats. This year.  I was under the impression we were taking a break from regular events we currently offer after hours and instead using alternate forms of sealed and booster or an event that focuses on special grouping of cards like just old or just new. 

    Can we get a list of extra events, not just the regular tournament schedule, please?

Thanks John M.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on July 17, 2019, 12:56:08 PM
HEY Gents

    I SEE almost nothing detailing the special after hours events at Nats. This year.  I was under the impression we were taking a break from regular events we currently offer after hours and instead using alternate forms of sealed and booster or an event that focuses on special grouping of cards like just old or just new. 

    Can we get a list of extra events, not just the regular tournament schedule, please?

Thanks John M.

The main reason why you don't see anything is that I've only been contacted by a couple of people stating they wanted to run side categories.  I don't really have to time really run side categories so I'm not planning on doing any, but anyone is welcome to offer them and post details.  Also due to life being really busy this last month and a half, I'm having a hard time keeping up with people who sent PMs and people actually posting these for the public.  So I know Roy has mentioned a Pokemon Go thing (I don't know anything about that game) and I know Travis has mentioned garbage sealed, but I don't know if the sale of TLG affects that.  If someone has contacted me outside of that and I forgot to list it, I'm extremely sorry and please do so now so we can get it into the books, but I've always assumed we were doing Iron Man as long as someone was willing to facilitate it!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: uthminister [BR] on July 17, 2019, 02:46:20 PM
I will not be running Garbage Sealed this year. I will have the Cube in tow so I am willing to offer a Cube draft one evening if there is interest.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red on July 17, 2019, 02:48:39 PM
I will not be running Garbage Sealed this year. I will have the Cube in tow so I am willing to offer a Cube draft one evening if there is interest.
TRAVIS IS COMING?!?!?! *happy dance*
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on July 17, 2019, 03:11:44 PM
Couple of things added to OP.  Registration and I'll actually be able to take CC payments this year with a little extra fee to cover costs.  Info on first post.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Josh on July 17, 2019, 03:28:49 PM
I will not be running Garbage Sealed this year. I will have the Cube in tow so I am willing to offer a Cube draft one evening if there is interest.

I do love me some Cube drafting!  Do you update the Cube with each new expansion that comes out?  Are all 16 brigades represented, or have you trimmed some of them for more consistent drafting?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on July 17, 2019, 08:58:28 PM
Two things:
1. If I pay in card, can I do it now or do I need to wait until the event?
2. What time does booster draft start on Thursday? I need to know ASAP so I know what time I need to leave to go to the church that day.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: uthminister [BR] on July 18, 2019, 09:52:21 AM
I will not be running Garbage Sealed this year. I will have the Cube in tow so I am willing to offer a Cube draft one evening if there is interest.

I do love me some Cube drafting!  Do you update the Cube with each new expansion that comes out?  Are all 16 brigades represented, or have you trimmed some of them for more consistent drafting?

I have updated it including the PoC full release. I have excluded all "Star" cards as I am not interested in introducing that mechanic to the cube at this point. All brigades are represented. I have not made any significant changes to the cube outside of updating it with new cards. Hopefully, it will be an enjoyable experience again this year.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Josh on July 18, 2019, 12:15:38 PM
I have updated it including the PoC full release. I have excluded all "Star" cards as I am not interested in introducing that mechanic to the cube at this point. All brigades are represented. I have not made any significant changes to the cube outside of updating it with new cards. Hopefully, it will be an enjoyable experience again this year.

I also like the idea of excluding Star cards from a Cube.  I hope to get a Cube draft in sometime during Nats.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Reth on July 19, 2019, 06:26:45 PM
Will games be recorded and released for public later on - or will there even be live streaming?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on July 20, 2019, 05:55:22 PM
My apologies guys, I was trying to split off the posts regarding an unofficial online tournament during Nationals, but it appears I completely removed them by mistake.

I will start a new thread in the Unofficial Tournaments section.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Reth on July 20, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Please PM me (above all the experienced [online] tournament hosts) what my obligations are besides setting up pairings and keep track of rankings (and even hints for these are welcome)!

How shall we handle time limits during games and in terms of matchfinding? Or is this up to us?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: uthminister [BR] on July 20, 2019, 06:48:58 PM
Will games be recorded and released for public later on - or will there even be live streaming?

I will be bringing my setup to stream/record games. If the network will handle it, we will stream. If not, we will record and upload later.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Josh on July 23, 2019, 09:31:47 AM
I apologize if this was already mentioned somewhere - I wasn't able to find it if it was.

Will players be able to crash at the church Wednesday night?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on July 30, 2019, 11:50:52 AM
Two things:
1. If I pay in card, can I do it now or do I need to wait until the event?
2. What time does booster draft start on Thursday? I need to know ASAP so I know what time I need to leave to go to the church that day.

Sorry, I know we addressed this through PM, but wanted to put it here so others can see.

1) Do not pay until you get here, just in case something happens and you don't get here.
2) Play STARTS every day at 9:00 AM EST, so if you show up at 9:00 to have your deck checked you will be too late.  Check in and deck check starts at 8:00 AM.  Due to the nature of Nationals and the time it takes, if you are late you will miss that entire day's play.  Play ends between 3:00 PM and 5:00 PM normally.

Will games be recorded and released for public later on - or will there even be live streaming?

I will be bringing my setup to stream/record games. If the network will handle it, we will stream. If not, we will record and upload later.

We will have a straight connection, so I'm hoping it is strong enough.  If it isn't we can remove the wifi and see if that helps as well.

I apologize if this was already mentioned somewhere - I wasn't able to find it if it was.

Will players be able to crash at the church Wednesday night?

You can absolutely stay at the church on Wed, Thur and Fri nights.  Due to church being the next day and making sure everything is put back in order the church is unavailable on Sat night.

*Due to normal services being held on Wednesday everyone who is coming on Wednesday needs to come in the entrance with the awning, and proceed to the top floor.  If you are driving please leave all of your stuff in your car until the church services have finished and I can show you where you will be staying.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: GreatGray on July 30, 2019, 07:38:37 PM
I don't know where to post this, but if I needed to switch a category for one of the days I will be there, and I preregistered, is that still possible?
Nathan L.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Crashfach2002 on July 30, 2019, 09:24:56 PM
I don't know where to post this, but if I needed to switch a category for one of the days I will be there, and I preregistered, is that still possible?
Nathan L.

We will do it when you get here
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: spacy32 on August 01, 2019, 12:46:41 AM
I can give rides from the hotel if needed
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: ReyZen on August 01, 2019, 12:07:56 PM
Soooo sorry for being so off topic but can't help posting this classic Nats 2019 shot!
(https://i.postimg.cc/4yBqWVvQ/20190801-120506.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q661Rt5N)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Reth on August 01, 2019, 04:49:18 PM
Cool! Awesome! Enjoy!

Are there any further pictures or maybe even vids available already!
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: TheJaylor on August 01, 2019, 06:59:06 PM
Ha, that guy on the left is using Meek Lost Souls. What a noob.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Reth on August 01, 2019, 07:00:59 PM
Or is this maybe from drafting? Or maybe Majestic Heavens triggered too often?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: The Guardian on August 01, 2019, 10:31:22 PM
Or is this maybe from drafting? Or maybe Majestic Heavens triggered too often?

TheJaylor is trying to be funny...that is me playing Booster Draft... ::)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Reth on August 02, 2019, 01:38:38 AM
TheJaylor is trying to be funny...that is me playing Booster Draft... ::)
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Reth on August 02, 2019, 02:31:17 AM
Any news, updates, pictures, captured games, ...?
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: ReyZen on August 02, 2019, 09:53:34 AM
Just a teaser.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZYhh6Xm/20190802-085759.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgzbKdsN)
The full photo album will be available in about a week on our audiovisual resource thread.

The future.......
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYg8cghF/20190802-094742.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5q0sKvd)
Bottom left, Josh Chambers following the footsteps of champion brothers Jay & Jeremy.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: ReyZen on August 02, 2019, 10:13:29 AM
Another teaser...

Classic T1 2P 1st round pairings:
(https://i.postimg.cc/SK5f1NXd/20190802-100827.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDGZhVwq)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sxgr8Gkw/20190802-101035.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hX7TRTJr)
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on August 02, 2019, 04:18:09 PM
New posting rating system...

Ha, that guy on the left is using Meek Lost Souls. What a noob.
10/10. Highest quality content.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: ReyZen on August 03, 2019, 09:42:10 AM
Photo teaser:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QtLVNqFb/20190803-093518.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5H3fnLqY)
Nats 2019 T1 TEAMS 1st round. This table features the youngest NATIONALLY-RANKED player, Sean M @7.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on August 03, 2019, 09:51:58 AM
That's a TEAMS game Roy
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: ReyZen on August 03, 2019, 09:53:36 AM
Photo Teaser:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hvmV2GHD/20190803-094840.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9wW4McmK)
Nats 2019 Sealed Deck Round 1 featuring the eldest & youngest 2019 Sealed Deck players Al B @71 & Zack A @8.
Title: Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
Post by: 777Godspeed on August 03, 2019, 09:58:27 AM
It is awesome to see, through picture and video, what is happening at Nats. Thanks to all of those working hard behind the scenes to make this happen.

Godspeed,
Mike