Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: SomeKittens on August 18, 2010, 11:14:59 PM
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A secular friend of min just asked me. Let's have a good 'ol debate, boards style.
(11:04:26 PM) *ommited*: What makes Christian rock Christian? I notice a lot of Christian rock doesn't really mention God explicitly, so I figure it's something else.
(11:05:59 PM) randawgnsalt: that is an interesting question
(11:06:15 PM) randawgnsalt: many argue about that
(11:06:20 PM) randawgnsalt: there's no right/wrong answer, really
(11:06:47 PM) randawgnsalt: there's bands who are explicitly Christian (DC Talk)
(11:07:20 PM) randawgnsalt: DC Talk - Jesus Freak (original version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjpe-AquuUQ#)
(11:07:34 PM) randawgnsalt: Bands with Christians in them, but not explicitly Christian lyrics
(11:08:11 PM) randawgnsalt: Project 86 "My Will Be A Dead Man" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PGT3O-IV5I#)
(11:08:27 PM) randawgnsalt: Project 86, they do have a deeper Christian meaning
(11:10:04 PM) randawgnsalt: Reliant K, who has the occasional "Christian" song
(11:10:06 PM) randawgnsalt: Relient K- Sadie Hawkins Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9MRlAAr6BQ#)
(11:10:18 PM) randawgnsalt: Relient K - Getting Into You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAM-eYZZimg#)
(11:10:56 PM) randawgnsalt: and finally, Evanesance, who started out Christian, but were secretly wiccan, and came out about that after they became famous.
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I would broadly define Christian music as music on a Christian label.
I would not-so-broadly define Christian music as music that directly speaks about God and Christian life, not just good living.
Evanesance are wiccans? wow. Taking Over Me just died.
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I googled Evenesance and wiccans and got no significant results (and we all know Google is God). (http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org)
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I say Christian music should first and foremost be defined by who is in the band. The band members should all be Christians and be interested in serving God with their music. Almost anything goes beyond that, excepting anything that would not be honoring to God. Maybe they'll write worship songs that are explicitly about God; maybe they'll write rock songs that have more cryptic lyrics which are recognizable as Christian to any other Christian but maybe not to unsaved people; maybe they'll just write about silly stuff; or maybe they won't have any lyrics at all. If they're serving God, the specifics of their music shouldn't matter much.
If I were in a band, I would probably go with either cryptic lyrics or no lyrics at all, but that's just a personal preference.
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If it uses the words "God", "Jesus", or "Him" is capitalized on the lyric book, it is Christian. If it doesn't, it is neutral. If it is rap, rock, prog rock, heavy rock, metal, prog metal, techno, hiphop, or heavy metal without the aforementioned words, IT IS SATANIC AND MUST BE BURNED BECAUSE IT IS CORRUPTING THE MINDS OF OUR YOUTHHHHHHHHH.
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I googled Evenesance and wiccans and got no significant results (and we all know Google is God). (http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org)
And we all know Reliant K is secretly Googlist.
Double checking on the Amy Lee/Wicca thing, it turns out that I'm wrong (if Yahoo! answers is to be trusted). I heard that word of mouth, so no idea on it's accuracy
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A christian band should really live and examplify a christian life & lifestyle. A band that brings Glory to God through their music. Not just label it a christian band because they say their christian. There is a difference when it comes to baring fruit and saying you have fruit.
If they bare fruit, and know enough of The Word, to speak enough of The Word, getting their money right (tithing & offering), and worshipping God through their music... would really bring Him Glory.
If they're just saying their christians and not living a godly lifestyle and not obeying the Bible... they're just pretending. If they're not expanding His Kingdom they're expanding their own kingdoms and expanding their own bank accounts through their own vain fame & fortune. That's not right, they'll be held accountable for that. Because if you use what God gave you for your own glory and not His Glory, you're His enemy.
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A christian band should really live and examplify a christian life & lifestyle. A band that brings Glory to God through their music. Not just label it a christian band because they say their christian. There is a difference when it comes to baring fruit and saying you have fruit.
If they bare fruit, and know enough of The Word, to speak enough of The Word, getting their money right (tithing & offering), and worshipping God through their music... would really bring Him Glory.
If they're just saying their christians and not living a godly lifestyle and not obeying the Bible... they're just pretending. If they're not expanding His Kingdom they're expanding their own kingdoms and expanding their own bank accounts through their own vain fame & fortune. That's not right, they'll be held accountable for that. Because if you use what God gave you for your own glory and not His Glory, you're His enemy.
that's extremely difficult for listeners to judge.
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there is no such thing as christian music. music cannot be christian. christian is a relationship with god.
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there is no such thing as christian music. music cannot be christian. christian is a relationship with god.
Boom goes the dynamite.
"Christian Music" by my understanding is just a broad term encompassing the "clean" music genre as well as "Worship Music." The way I see it; what makes a band fall under the Christian Music category is if they themselves are Christian (which thus, they are generally on a Christian label).
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Typically in my expirience, the term "Christian Music" has usually mean "says Jesus a lot."
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I personally like the more cryptic songs (see A) but there are some bands that are good at worship style (see B and listen to the whole song) there are many bands who call themselves christian. But, they either fail at it/go cryptic lyric wise/ or they are the one in a million that are good at some worship style music.
A: A Plea for Purging-Shiver:
A Plea For Purging "Shiver" Music Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peCm0_5lRmE#ws)
B: The Devil Wears Prada-Assistant to the Regional manager:
Assistant to the Regional Manager (Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYTzcubws7Y&feature=av2e#)
lyrics for A:
Cheap steps make for easy regrets, but keep your words of contempt.
You are no friend, my enemy, you tear me down, keep me weak.
I wear no crown of weakness, His is no crown of weakness.
I wear no crown of weakness, hide in your own contempt.
Iron sharpens iron, but your judgment's dulling me.
I answer to no man. You're no gods or masters of this world.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm damned. I pray I don't wake up in hell.
If I were God we'd all be dead. If I were God we'd all be dead... We're all dead.
The devils hands have been busy. The devils hands have been busy.
Grace sustains, but I thirst for revenge. The world would be destroyed if I were God.
Demons are fallen angels. Remember that when you think youre a saint.
Demons are fallen angels. Remember that when you think youre a saint.
Fallen angels, Im coming for your wings. Fallen angels, Ill cut off your wings.
If I were God wed all be dead. If I were God wed all be dead.
Lord knows Im a cynic, but I wont give up, wont give in.
Lord knows Im a cynic, but I wont give up without a fight.
The devils hands have been busy, turning liars to masters, demons to gods.
But were no gods, were no masters. Were only fallen angels in this world.
Lyrics B:
THESE WRITINGS ARE TO THOSE WHO HAVE WEEPED.
THESE WRITINGS ARE TO THOSE WHO HAVEN'T LOOKED DEEPLY ENOUGH INTO THE CORRECT RESOLUTION.
WRONG AGAIN BUT STRONGER NOW,
WE CAN FACE THIS.
FIGHT LIFE WITH LIFE.
ALL GLORY TO THE ONE IN EXISTENCE.
BRING UPON YOUR NAME, YOUR GRACE, YOUR EVERYTHING.
HOLD HANDS AND STARE INTO THE CIRCLE.
WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT?
RUMORS AND RUMORS AND RUMORS.
ASSEMBLY: DISINTEGRATION. PERISH.
TOMBSTONES SERVE AS MIRRORS AND THE GRAVES ARE INFINITE.
TAKE A LOOK THROUGH THE LENS AND THROUGH YOUR EYES.
END THE PARTITIONING.
WRONG AGAIN BUT STRONGER NOW,
WE CAN FACE THIS.
FIGHT LIFE WITH LIFE.
ENEMIES, WE'LL GO FOR YOUR THROAT.
(sorry for all caps but I'm to lazy to rewrite it all since all I did was copy and paste it)
EDIT: also the rare christian band to be honored by the secular world is awesome. i.e. MxPx/The Devil Wears Prada/As I Lay Dying
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I really liked the first one. Good message, I've never heard of the band before.
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Yeah may I just say I went to the scream the prayer tour this year (quite possible best concert ever. EVER. Super fun time) and they were amazing live. AMAZING!
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So wait, we've determine that Evanescence isn't in fact wiccan?
Need quick reply, I currently have Amy Lee tied to the stake.
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I don't think they are. Do I think they're christian? Lyrically, no. As far as members go maybe...
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Quick, get her autograph!
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When interviewed, I'm pretty sure they cussed when asked if they were a Christian band. It takes Christian lyrics to become a Christian song or to be Christian music. If no Christian lyrics are used, it's just Christians singing secular songs. I guess you could have Christian songs without lyrics ( like in a Christian movie or Christian play or something ), but you're probably not talking about that.
Daniel
+1
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I REALLY disagree there. If they don't include the word god or jesus or a get saved message in each song then they're not christian? This mentality is why christian musicians (85% probably) are laughed at because no person that likes music wants to hear a worship song just sound ten different ways. They want originality not just in sound but lyrically.
Now I'm going to stand up to the firing squad and say Bob Dylan was a christian singer. Yes he was liberal to say the least but I think from lyric standpoint he believed in god/christ (he was catholic and to each his own so I don't want to hear bangin' on catholics or beliefs). Now just because you don't believe as catholics do, that doesn't mean you can go calling them evil influences and they're all going straight to hell. Because they're not. It's their belief with their morals and their fundamentals. But, Catholics have no problems with drinking, and are liberal in some other areas. So maybe thats why Dylan was liberal. But still, lyrically, I think he was christian.
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U2 is the greatest Christian band ever.
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There's a big difference between being a Christian and singing Christian music. A Christian could sing some anti-Christ lyrics, but that doesn't make that song a Christian song just because a Christian sings it. It's about the song more than the person singing it. Churches have a lot of non-Christians singing their Christian Songs every weekend.
Daniel
:thumbup:
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There's a big difference between people who sing non christian music (as in no message clearly visible) doesn't make them a non christian band.
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Churches have a lot of non-Christians singing their Christian Songs every weekend.
Was this really a necessary comment?
In the end, Christian Music has no definition, and this thread proves it. It is also a great example of why relative truth works for most everything except morality. Everyone has their own defition, and there is no truly right answer, but people just tned to think they are right because they are prideful.
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There's a big difference between people who sing non christian music (as in no message clearly visible) doesn't make them a non christian band.
You can be a "Christian Band" and sing secular songs. That happens a lot as well. Churches have a lot of non-Christians singing their Christian Songs every weekend.
Was this really a necessary comment?
In the end, Christian Music has no definition, and this thread proves it. It is also a great example of why relative truth works for most everything except morality. Everyone has their own defition, and there is no truly right answer, but people just tned to think they are right because they are prideful.
I believe that comment helped to show that non-believers can sing Christian Music. Not sure what relative truth is, but if you mean truth, then what the Bible says is the truth.
Daniel
:thumbup:
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How? It's an accusation that many worship leaders are not christians. While this may or may not be true, I don't see how it added anything to conversation about what Christian music is - it just leveled accusations and allows for some to be upset that they (if they are a worship leader) to feel insulted.
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You can be a "Christian Band" and sing secular songs. That happens a lot as well. [quote
Example: The new cover album from Stryper that they are going to be releasing (or released already, idk). Its got stuff from Black Sabbath to Kansas to Iron Maiden.
Does this make them a secular band now? :P (My answer is no.)
*edit*
In case Styper fans here haven't heard about it: http://www.stryper.com/thecovering777/ (http://www.stryper.com/thecovering777/) Samples for your listening pleasure.
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That will be an epic album. Absolutely epic.
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How? It's an accusation that many worship leaders are not christians. While this may or may not be true, I don't see how it added anything to conversation about what Christian music is - it just leveled accusations and allows for some to be upset that they (if they are a worship leader) to feel insulted.
I think he meant as in the people that are attending, singing along...I think.
I disagree with Daniel but lets not get to snide remarks and turn this into a "I hate you and anything you say is wrong" its a debate not a fight
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You can be a "Christian Band" and sing secular songs. That happens a lot as well. [quote
Example: The new cover album from Stryper that they are going to be releasing (or released already, idk). Its got stuff from Black Sabbath to Kansas to Iron Maiden.
Does this make them a secular band now? :P (My answer is no.)
Secular band, probably not. Secular songs, yep. And Caleb was right, I was talking about anyone that sings at Church. There's gotta be a time though when you've stopped talking about God, or the things of God and now you're not a Christian band. You're now just Christians singing secular songs.
Daniel
:thumbup:
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It's not 750 A.D. anymore.
Obviously not every person in the church is a Christian. Obviously they have the vocal capabilities to sing a song with God or Jesus in the words. That does not change the fact that even the definition of a Christian song is relative to many things such as your race, denomination, and life expiriences.
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It's not 750 A.D. anymore.
Obviously not every person in the church is a Christian. Obviously they have the vocal capabilities to sing a song with God or Jesus in the words. That does not change the fact that even the definition of a Christian song is relative to many things such as your race, denomination, and life expiriences.
Pretty sure there were fakers of the faith way before 750 A.D. I don't see what race, denominations, and life experiences have anything to do with the Bible.
Daniel
+1
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Yeah, but now most of the world recognizes that Christianity should be a lifestyle, and is not defined by using God's name repeatedly in your music. You talk about fruit; if the fruit of the music is biblical, and they claim to be christians, I don't see why you don't see it as Christian music.
Race, denomination, and life expiriences can have numerous effects on how you view Christian music and the bible. The cause your predisposed bias' towards certain doctrines, songs, or styles of music. They are the de facto reason, in my opinion, why no one can have a perfect doctrine.
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You don't have to say God or Jesus in your songs to be Christian music. If I make a cd full of songs about my favorite sports teams, it's not Christian Music, it's secular. You gotta have Biblical lyrics to be Christian, that's what makes us different, the Bible.
Daniel
:thumbup:
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You don't have to say God or Jesus in your songs to be Christian music. If I make a cd full of songs about my favorite sports teams, it's not Christian Music, it's secular. You gotta have Biblical lyrics to be Christian, that's what makes us different, the Bible.
Daniel
:thumbup:
Technically speaking, it's the New Testament ;). I don't know if I agree you though. You can make a biblical album out of any subject matter simply by judging it with biblical ethics (i.e. you can talk about how the U always gets in trouble with the law and why that is bad ;D )
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You don't have to say God or Jesus in your songs to be Christian music. If I make a cd full of songs about my favorite sports teams, it's not Christian Music, it's secular. You gotta have Biblical lyrics to be Christian, that's what makes us different, the Bible.
Daniel
:thumbup:
Technically speaking, it's the New Testament ;). I don't know if I agree you though. You can make a biblical album out of any subject matter simply by judging it with biblical ethics (i.e. you can talk about how the U always gets in trouble with the law and why that is bad ;D )
haha, nice. No arrests though in the last couple years, Randy is cleaning up the program a lot. And Christian technically is the NT, but Jesus was in the OT too, so i'll call that one a push. And you can sing about OT stuff too and still be "Christian" since we still use the OT. But just thing, there's a lot of ethics out there. Athiests will tell you they have great ethics. So Athiests singing about make sure not to steal some1's car, doesn't make that a Christian music. There's a lot of people nowadays that believe ethics are great and have nothing to do with the God of the Bible.
Daniel
:prayer:
p.s. i'm just trying out all of the smiley faces. So far thumbs up is my favorite.
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I'll throw my opinion out here: it's the fruit. Someone mentioned that already, but I'll agree. If the band (or anyone) is producing good fruit, you can tell that their roots are solid in the Rock.
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I personally judge it based on two things:
1) Saying they are a Christian when asked (they don't have tp flaunt it, just not hide it)
2) sing lyrics consistant with major Christian doctrines
I think that's about as good as you can do with it.
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2) sing lyrics consistant with major Christian doctrines
Let's not get a new war started....
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I said major. They don't need to support my doctrines, as long as they support some basic doctrines that if they were to deny, they would not be Christians.
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True, very true. I also wouldn't want them supporting doctrines of other religions (reincarnation, for instance)
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You don't have to say God or Jesus in your songs to be Christian music. If I make a cd full of songs about my favorite sports teams, it's not Christian Music, it's secular. You gotta have Biblical lyrics to be Christian, that's what makes us different, the Bible.
Am I not a Christian because I listen to "secular" music? If so, please enlighten me as to why. If not, then neither are Christian bands who play "secular" music.
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For me its the lyrics. Meaningful lyrics need to be present but not needed every song, have some fun! RIP FIF.
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You don't have to say God or Jesus in your songs to be Christian music. If I make a cd full of songs about my favorite sports teams, it's not Christian Music, it's secular. You gotta have Biblical lyrics to be Christian, that's what makes us different, the Bible.
Am I not a Christian because I listen to "secular" music? If so, please enlighten me as to why. If not, then neither are Christian bands who play "secular" music.
"Listening to" and "playing" are two different things
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I used to have a dairy farm, and I'm a Christian. Did I produce Christian milk? On the other hand, music comes from the word "muse" which is to think, right? So, if ,music makes you think for or against God, that is an issue.
No one can get saved eating those Christian "Testimints" but the scripture on them may make someone think, and believe later. Also, one can't dismiss the heart of the person hearing the message. Jesus personally walked among the good, the bad, and the ugly. You can't think that ALL of those people got saved, right? Pharisees, Sadducees, Herods and all? And it was JESUS, the Jesus! If anyone should be successful, it would be Him!
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I used to have a dairy farm, and I'm a Christian. Did I produce Christian milk?
Did you baptize the cows?
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I used to have a dairy farm, and I'm a Christian. Did I produce Christian milk?
Did you baptize the cows?
Isn't pasteurizing the same thing?
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baptized BY FIRE!!!
except not.
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I used to have a dairy farm, and I'm a Christian. Did I produce Christian milk?
Did you baptize the cows?
We sprinkled their utters twice a day with holy disinfectant.
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I used to have a dairy farm, and I'm a Christian. Did I produce Christian milk?
No, but you make some Holy Cheese.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trygve.com%2Fbg_swisscheese_310.jpg&hash=5898d87950c89627ed3cde6722897054abfd71c3)
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I think this IS all about the person's heart. For instance Reliant K, hav u ever bin to one of their concerts and heard them say that they do this for God, never mind the fact that they hav songs about girls, that doesnt make them bad songs they rn't like most rap songs that are only about doing stuff to the girl....
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Not all rap songs are like that
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Just because it's not Christian doesn't mean it's bad. I watch a lot of sports and no doubt they're not Christian, but that doesn't mean their "bad", but at the same time, they're not "Christian".
Daniel
:thumbup:
p.s. You can be Christians singing non-Christian music...not saying that non-Christian music is bad, some of it is, but like mysports, it's not Christian.
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Just because it's not Christian doesn't mean it's bad. I watch a lot of sports and no doubt they're not Christian, but that doesn't mean their "bad", but at the same time, they're not "Christian".
Daniel
:thumbup:
p.s. You can be Christians singing non-Christian music...not saying that non-Christian music is bad, some of it is, but like mysports, it's not Christian.
+1 +1
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What about Christians covering a non-Christian song (Demon Hunter's Snap Your Fingers, Snap Your Neck), or vice versa?
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They're having fun....is there a hidden rule I missed about christians and xnay on the funnay
Also if you really want controversial (although they cleaned it up some) read the original lyrics of the devil wears prada-still fly and then read their modified lyrics for their rendition
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Heck, look at Showbread, and the flak they caught for a fan video (Dead by Dawn)
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Heck, look at Showbread, and the flak they caught for a fan video (Dead by Dawn)
they caught a lot of "flak" for Dead by Dawn. not just the video...
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They're having fun....is there a hidden rule I missed about christians and xnay on the funnay
Oh, no worries, there's PLENTY of people who feel it's their ministry to help you remember that!
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Everybody get their sackcloth! We're going to repent!
Kids: * sarcastically* yaaaay....
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christian music is just clean music that praises the Lord