Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: jbeers285 on November 04, 2013, 09:08:59 AM
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With the new releases are we thinking that we could have a new "best" EC in the game?
Arguments could be made for several characters to be considered the best EC. Which one do you think it is and why?
Here are several top EC's to consider
Foreign Wives
KoT (priests/warriors)
King Manassah
Emperor Tibernius
Gomer (TXP)
Nebuchadnezzar (TXP)
Uzzah
Goliath (promo)
Foreign Spearman
The Amalekite Slave
Balaam (Di)
Sabbath Breakers
Entrapping Pharisee (TXP)
Proud Pharisee (TXP)
The Dreaming Pharoah
Egyptian Magcians
Astrologers
12 Fingered Giant
Philistine Armor Bearer
Wandering Spirit (TXP)
Spirit of Temptation (TXP)
This list is not exhaustive or comprehnsive but it's a place to start
I believe my current vote would have to be foreign wives
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Imo, it has to be either Wives or Tibbers, and I can see cases for both. I'm leaning slightly to wives, but Tiberius is absurdly good (also one of the best heroes ever).
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Best EC currently or best EC ever? Because if you look at impact FW and any of the new releases haven't dominated the metagame like Uzzah has for so long.
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Best EC currently or best EC ever? Because if you look at impact FW and any of the new releases haven't dominated the metagame like Uzzah has for so long.
Currently
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I'm still going to go with Uzzah, I feel like Wives and Tibbers while great cards simply are easier to play around than Uzzah.
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I'm still going to go with Uzzah, I feel like Wives and Tibbers while great cards simply are easier to play around than Uzzah.
Uzzah is negated exactly the same way Tibernius is and he can't stand upto lone FBTN hero's while tibbers can.
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Lone FBTN heroes shouldn't be common. Moses and the occasional angels are all you see and frankly plot handles that better than a Tiberius ever could.
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Lone FBTN heroes shouldn't be common. Moses and the occasional angels are all you see and frankly plot handles that better than a Tiberius ever could.
Plot isn't an evil character and neither is the artifact needed to trigger uzzah
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After playing several tournaments since the release of Foreign Wives, I don't think I'd give her top honors. She is good for maybe one auto-block per game, which is historically what Uzzah has been and continues to be as well (eventually, your opponent will have to attack with someone that doesn't negate him, otherwise your deck has other issues). After the surprise block from hand/post-block Mayhem/etc. she becomes almost a liability in some cases, and she has terrible initiative numbers. In a T2-MP game yesterday, Nathan Voigt was able to recur 3x RTC and two Genesis Heroes with Asher due to Justin having her in his territory. One of my favorite cards in recent history is Job Overcomes, which is a good card in today's meta anyway, but becomes exceptionally good vs. a player with FW.
All that to say I would still use her in a high percentage of decks, but I don't think she should necessarily be the automatic add that most people would have said she was.
For T1, I'd still have to go with Uzzah, with Manasseh, Gomer, Emperor Tiberius, Foreign Wives, and Goliath all being contenders. However, if we extend into the realm of T2, the two best ECs by far are Assyrian Survivor and Assyrian Siege Army; with good arguments for either one being the best.
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However, if we extend into the realm of T2, the two best ECs by far are Assyrian Survivor and Assyrian Siege Army; with good arguments for either one being the best.
Well no one cares about your silly second type anyway ;)
I have to disagree with Uzzah being better than FW, for several reasons. First of all, I rarely see FW not get a block in a game, so just from their abilities I'd consider them about even in terms of power (except for you know, the CBN on FW which is a glaring weakness Uzzah has. FW can take both FBTN and Thaddeus). But then you throw in the fact that FW is multibrigade (which I know can hurt her against TGT (also since I just play T1, I'm ignoring the Job Overcomes, which is rarely used there), and I think she is very much better. She goes in everything, and I think Gray is significantly better than brown, so I'd rather have her in my defense than I would Uzzah.
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However, if we extend into the realm of T2, the two best ECs by far are Assyrian Survivor and Assyrian Siege Army; with good arguments for either one being the best.
If we are going to go into T2, then the best is Woman at Thebez. A CBN play-first CBN regardless-of-protection discard 4 times per game, with some other options as well, I would put her up for the honors.
In T1, I would say that it is FW because I'm defensive-minded in general, and love the ability to play any enhancement I want (including one of the best in the game as CBN, see above). I also love the bait she is in territory. She is usually good for either a territory AotL or other means of destruction that could be used on EC in my theme, or she makes the opponent stop drawing until they get one of those options, which is perfectly fine by me.
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Obviously SWS. He's basically every other EC in the game already.
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If we are going to go into T2, then the best is Woman at Thebez. A CBN play-first CBN regardless-of-protection discard 4 times per game, with some other options as well, I would put her up for the honors.
She depends too much on other cards for me to consider her "the best". She needs Tower out and Stone in hand before she can be effective. Definitely up there, but Survivor's better initiative, CBI protection from discard, and self capture, and Siege Army's ability to completely destroy some strategies (while still often being able to survive battle) make each of them better.
Obviously SWS. He's basically every other EC in the game already.
Westy does have a point...
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im surprised the goliath promo isn't higher on the list
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Obviously SWS. He's basically every other EC in the game already.
I would disagree because he is limited to what ur opponents play and what they put in territory, in the right deck played the right way he can be great but sws doesn't seem like a top 5 ec to me
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im surprised the goliath promo isn't higher on the list
The problem with Goliath is that he's so tall. As long as your opponent has another hero, they can almost always get initiative and play either a bunch of cards that hurt everyone except Goliath, or a CBI/N enhancement to get him out of the way. Not only that, but unless the opponent used a band, draw, or play ability, they get to activate two heroes that turn.
My knee-jerk reaction was FW, but I think the threat of her is more potent than the actual character.
I'm going to have to go with Survivor - initiative, CBI discard protection, and soul gen/recurability make him fantastic.
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I think the threat of her is more potent than the actual character.
The best EC doesn't even need to hit the table to effect the game. The fear of your opponent having said EC is so great that they will make misplays to avoid the threat, and that is true power.
(Obviously talking about SWS...you don't want that thing stealing all your ECs)
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Women as Snares
I think should be a contender because she can wipe out your opponent's defense,unless you have women in your defense.
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I dont agree with the -1 on the above post. WaS is very good at wiping out your opponents defense.
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I feel like Lot's Wife should be at least mentioned. Or maybe that's just me.
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I agree. She is one of the best Canaanites, and has a band ability.
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I don't even play anymore and even I know the best evil character is seven wicked spirits. The second best character in the game is the guy in my avatar (http://i.imgur.com/J838m5J.jpg).
No, not goat with horn. My avatar doesn't depict a goat and does not have horns. It's a dog. And dog gets name on name bonus with Dog's Slaughter.
(Speaking of Dog's Slaughter, is anyone else tired of misprints? (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/REG/LinkedDocuments/Doeg%92s%20Slaughter%20(Pi).gif))
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Obviously SWS. He's basically every other EC in the game already.
I would disagree because he is limited to what ur opponents play and what they put in territory, in the right deck played the right way he can be great but sws doesn't seem like a top 5 ec to me
I dunno. An EC that effectively adds "Interrupt all fortesses and " to the start of the SA of every other EC in your deck strikes me as useful in a wide variety of situations no matter what defense your opponent may put in their territory.
If you are playing against Garden Tomb, and have a couple of orange characters, you can use 7WS to swap in a character of any brigade and mess them up. Obadaiah's Caves really hurt Babylonian defenses, but not so much of you can 7WS in a Nebby or a Horsey-wearing Nergel to play a capture. We won't even discuss the craziness of using 7WS to bring in King Rehoboam.
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I think that right now, the answer is Foreign Wives. When she was released, her ability forced players to rethink how to go about drawing and making rescue attempts and that used to be the way that Uzzah was up until the last year or so, when Isaiah and Daniel became popular (and Moses became more common, especially in conjunction with Angel Under the Oak). Even now though, the possibility of Uzzah can make a player rethink a rescue attempt. The possibility of a character forcing people to rethink how they play the game is far more effective than any actual ability is, and at this point, Foreign Wives is far more effective than Uzzah is, especially because there are so many effective-but-negatable evil characters out there. Her initiative isn't the best (though the volume of rescue attempts that do give her initiative is much higher than it used to be), but she still has access to two of the best evil enhancements in the game (Plot and Stone), not to mention every other non-civilization specific evil enhancement. Her being Egyptian lets her naturally splash into those decks, but even better is how she functions in a Canaanite deck. A lot of early versions of the Pharisees defense that was popular at Nats utilized her, Lot's Wife, and Stone, and I even played around with Fortify Site in that deck to moderate success. On top of an incredible ability that forces people to rethink the game, she's probably the most versatile evil character right now.
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I think that right now, the answer is Foreign Wives. When she was released, her ability forced players to rethink how to go about drawing and making rescue attempts and that used to be the way that Uzzah was up until the last year or so, when Isaiah and Daniel became popular (and Moses became more common, especially in conjunction with Angel Under the Oak). Even now though, the possibility of Uzzah can make a player rethink a rescue attempt. The possibility of a character forcing people to rethink how they play the game is far more effective than any actual ability is, and at this point, Foreign Wives is far more effective than Uzzah is, especially because there are so many effective-but-negatable evil characters out there. Her initiative isn't the best (though the volume of rescue attempts that do give her initiative is much higher than it used to be), but she still has access to two of the best evil enhancements in the game (Plot and Stone), not to mention every other non-civilization specific evil enhancement. Her being Egyptian lets her naturally splash into those decks, but even better is how she functions in a Canaanite deck. A lot of early versions of the Pharisees defense that was popular at Nats utilized her, Lot's Wife, and Stone, and I even played around with Fortify Site in that deck to moderate success. On top of an incredible ability that forces people to rethink the game, she's probably the most versatile evil character right now.
I think that when cards are released people rethink the game, but what gets me is that I rethink the game with every player I play against and keep trying to design a deck then can take on every deck.
For Type 1 in my opinion, Lot's Wife is first, Gomer (priests) second, Gomer (womens) third, and King of Tyrus (either one) is fourth.
For Type 2 (yes it may be a silly type, but it rocks if you know how to play it) hands down is Fallen Warrior (warriors) he gets experience credit for every Hero he successfully blocks, so if a rescue attempt turns in to a stalemate, or if he destroys opponent, he gets the Hero's ability points, + when successfully block a rescue attempt he gets experience credit
Also to note, I always put good number enhancements in most of my decks so that if Moses or some other FBTN Hero comes out I can hold my own.
I am looking forward to when I can play others online, my first decks you will beat me hands down, but I rethink based on every match, I learn, and come back stronger, with this strategy, I hope to eventually be a top contender.
Steven
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I think that right now, the answer is Foreign Wives. When she was released, her ability forced players to rethink how to go about drawing and making rescue attempts and that used to be the way that Uzzah was up until the last year or so, when Isaiah and Daniel became popular (and Moses became more common, especially in conjunction with Angel Under the Oak). Even now though, the possibility of Uzzah can make a player rethink a rescue attempt. The possibility of a character forcing people to rethink how they play the game is far more effective than any actual ability is, and at this point, Foreign Wives is far more effective than Uzzah is, especially because there are so many effective-but-negatable evil characters out there. Her initiative isn't the best (though the volume of rescue attempts that do give her initiative is much higher than it used to be), but she still has access to two of the best evil enhancements in the game (Plot and Stone), not to mention every other non-civilization specific evil enhancement. Her being Egyptian lets her naturally splash into those decks, but even better is how she functions in a Canaanite deck. A lot of early versions of the Pharisees defense that was popular at Nats utilized her, Lot's Wife, and Stone, and I even played around with Fortify Site in that deck to moderate success. On top of an incredible ability that forces people to rethink the game, she's probably the most versatile evil character right now.
this post amused me. I guess I was just old fashioned then, running double wives stone in my defence
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Foreign Spearmen is the real answer.
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I am looking forward to when I can play others online, my first decks you will beat me hands down, but I rethink based on every match, I learn, and come back stronger, with this strategy, I hope to eventually be a top contender.
This is a great attitude! I look forward to when you can play online as well.