Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Alex_Olijar on August 23, 2011, 01:04:44 AM
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Is it against the rules Would the mods lock a thread tiering players of Redemption?
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I'd probably only lock it if I wasn't in Tier A, that is to say, the first tier below Gabe's tier, which consists of only him.
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I was thnking about producing both a forum tier list and a players tier list. Just to include everyone.
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I request being in Buffalo Tier.
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I request being in Buffalo Tier.
Buffalo tier is a mythical tier. None of us can attain it.
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No, you're thinking of Buffalo Tear:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abendgallery.com%2Fhtml_artists%2Fbobola_jennifer%2Fimages%2Fbobola-jennifer-buffalo-tear-6x6-175_lg.jpg&hash=5f6bb740e1d4bbfc98c876fef55de8642476ca13)
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I wouldn't personally lock it, (well, because I couldn't unless you put it in the Ruling Questions forum), but I would probably suggest it be locked/deleted. I don't think that tier lists, even if done in an unserious manner, are helpful for building community. There would without a doubt be some who would be offended, unless everyone was the same tier, in which case it would be spam. And since the thread was started by you, and it would be spam, it would undoubtedly be locked...;)
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I can't decide if I should -1 that for the stupid game it made me remember or support it because it has a buffalo. Thanks for a conondrum Pol.
I wouldn't personally lock it, (well, because I couldn't unless you put it in the Ruling Questions forum), but I would probably suggest it be locked/deleted. I don't think that tier lists, even if done in an unserious manner, are helpful for building community. There would without a doubt be some who would be offended, unless everyone was the same tier, in which case it would be spam.
Considering the amount of sarcasm in the current draft of the list, I'm doubting anyone would possibly ever take it seriously enough to get hurt (unless they think Rob Anderson is bottom tier material).
And since the thread was started by you, and it would be spam, it would undoubtedly be locked...
Knew it.
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I think that a sarcastic "tier thread" would probably not work well because of the potential for offense mentioned already.
I have thought that having an overall ranking thread (based on the ELO system for chess or something similar) could be interesting. It's objectivity would hopefully keep it from offending people, and you could set it up so that only people who volunteered to participate would be included.
But that would be a lot of work...
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I think that a sarcastic "tier thread" would probably not work well because of the potential for offense mentioned already.
I have thought that having an overall ranking thread (based on the ELO system for chess or something similar) could be interesting. It's objectivity would hopefully keep it from offending people, and you could set it up so that only people who volunteered to participate would be included.
But that would be a lot of work...
Working on it. There are a number of logistical problems--so it is a long ways off--but I am working on it.
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I know at least one person who would explode with rage if that happened.
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Is there an in between good and noob category?
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Honestly, if you get offended over a ranking system, then I would be inclined to think that is something you would need to get with God about. If you think you should be higher in the ranks, then you will need to play a lot of games to prove it. Like it has been mentioned before (to me at least), some people won't take you seriously until they've played you. I might be pretty decent where I live, but only the people where I live at would know for certain. Smelling what I'm stepping in? It would be cool to have an overall ranking system that kept track of your tourney points for all of the years you've played and at the different levels you've played at. A record based on facts is about as objective as you could get. Just my twopence.
-C_S
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Honestly, I don't respect RNRS at all. It's inherently skewed towards weaker, more active regions.
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Honestly, I don't respect RNRS at all. It's inherently skewed towards weaker, more active regions.
Then only respect States or Regionals and above. Locals and districts are usually the same people playing against the same people (i.e. locally) over and over. I'd say that someone who has won nationals in a specific category multiple times is someone who gains some respect considering some of the best players from across the country try to attend. If you've played 300 games in a certain category where you live, sure, you have experience, but if you haven't played against a lot of other people, then I don't really have much to gauge your skill level on. I've heard some people are notorious in certain categories, thus, I'm inclined to believe they might prove to be a challenge should I play them. Dunno, goat cheese and two pennies is all I have to offer.
-C_S
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I don't respect States or even some Regionals. A great example is type 1.5. It works in FL, but until it works somewhere else, I can't take it seriously.
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I live in Florida, I've seen 1.5, but it still is more of a local thing. However, you have at least heard of it. One tournament is not going to gain someone massive respect (Unless Nationals was their first tournament and they won every category...). In time, 1.5 might gain more prestige or it might not. However, some players from other states got to see it and thought it was interesting and might have some potential. I don't have a 1.5 myself because I don't play T2. Who knows. Still, people shouldn't get offended.
-C_S
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You should ask them permission if they would like to be on the tier-list. For the people who say yes, go ahead. For the people who say no, then dont. Simple.
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A great example is type 1.5. It works in FL, but until it works somewhere else, I can't take it seriously.
I admit that the jury is still out on type 1.5, but it did beat RTSmaniac, who is a well-respected T2 player who has been successful at big tournaments for many years. That earns at least a little street-cred in my book :)
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A great example is type 1.5. It works in FL, but until it works somewhere else, I can't take it seriously.
I admit that the jury is still out on type 1.5, but it did beat RTSmaniac, who is a well-respected T2 player who has been successful at big tournaments for many years. That earns at least a little street-cred in my book :)
Agreed.
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You should ask them permission if they would like to be on the tier-list. For the people who say yes, go ahead. For the people who say no, then dont. Simple.
Or you could just have a sign-up thread for an unoffical tier list. Anyone who would want to join would simply just say that they want to join on the thread, then after a month or so make the thread.
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Honestly, I don't respect RNRS at all. It's inherently skewed towards weaker, more active regions.
Hey Now! Watch yourself! That is my main source of validation in life. You watch your mouth or I will beat you down in a Redemption game of the RNRS category of your choice!!! :P :-* ;)
I know at least one person who would explode with rage if that happened.
How do you know that about me...we've never met! You must have ESPN or something! ;) 8)
Honestly, if you get offended over a ranking system, then I would be inclined to think that is something you would need to get with God about.
God and I are sorting that out. Until then, I don't need your spiritually, logical conclusions heaping extra conviction on me!!!! :'( ::)
Is there an in between good and noob category?
No...in fact, I think good and noob are the same category. That's right! I broke the board rules and said it! Gabe is a noob! :laugh:
Extra random fact: I have not heard of or won at Type 1.5 soooooo it doesn't exist!
Now that I've gotten my obnoxious, self-amusing humor out of the way. I don't agree with any Tier-style/Hall of Fame ranking style systems because they are subjective and create division/bad feelings. Everyone has their own mental system worked out and like Counter Sniper stated: people will only respect/take serious those they have played.
However, I'm beginning to think that I would rather be a dark horse at a tournament...at least in multiplayer categories.
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A great example is type 1.5. It works in FL, but until it works somewhere else, I can't take it seriously.
I admit that the jury is still out on type 1.5, but it did beat RTSmaniac, who is a well-respected T2 player who has been successful at big tournaments for many years. That earns at least a little street-cred in my book :)
They should come to the T2 only this year and we'll see how it does. It's still the best (well, equal with nats, but it has more players than Nats, and is therefore better) judge of T2 players.
You should ask them permission if they would like to be on the tier-list. For the people who say yes, go ahead. For the people who say no, then dont. Simple.
Or you could just have a sign-up thread for an unoffical tier list. Anyone who would want to join would simply just say that they want to join on the thread, then after a month or so make the thread.
This is actually a pretty good idea.
I'll sign up. I call Chobo Tier.
These tier lists wouldn't necessarily be about how good somebody is, but could be how they are on the boards.
"Epic Troll Tier"
Sauce
"Other Trolls"
Olijar
Colin
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I'm Not A Troll.
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I honestly don't think that a thread like the one you are proposing would be beneficial. As far as
the rules go, those are being discussed.
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"Enoch" Tier - The highest tier reserved for the two (including Elijah) who walked with God and never died.
"Chamber of Angels" Tier - Second highest tier reserved for past, present and future playtesters and artists.
"Hosts of Heaven" Tier - Obviously for hosts.
"Buckler" Tier - Highest earthly level tier reserved for national champions.
"Increasing Numbers" Tier - These are the masses of Redemption faithful. (It is tiered on a bell curve after all.)
"City of Refuge" Tier - Lowest earthly tier reserved for those that have never had the ability to attend a tournament.
...then you need to sink to the depths of the core of the earth...
"The Gates of Hell" Tier - The members here know who they are and that's good enough for everyone.
...then keep digging until you get to China...
"The Magi" Tier
...then keep going lower (or in this case higher into the Chinese atmosphere, high above their highest firework)...
"Northwest" Tier
...then keep going lower to the moon...
"Andy Kaufman" Tier - This is where Andy and I hang out.
;)
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I think an objective, automatic system would be good if players opted in rather than just being signed up without their consent. How to create such a system, well...
I'd also say if you did that, it should be able to be applied to non-tournament games. I know there are some players who are quite good, but only play on RTS. Perhaps a separate system for exhibitionists.
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I think an objective, automatic system would be good if players opted in rather than just being signed up without their consent. How to create such a system, well...
I'd also say if you did that, it should be able to be applied to non-tournament games. I know there are some players who are quite good, but only play on RTS. Perhaps a separate system for exhibitionists.
Amateurs vs. Professionals maybe? Funny story: At Nationals, my sister was given $1 to play in T2 Multi so we would have 4 tables of four instead of any tables of three. We figured that she might have become the first professional Redemption player, since I've never heard of anyone being paid to play a game of Redemption. I could be wrong though.
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i was paid to judge one time.
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I've been payed to not play.
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I've been payed to make other people not play. Permanently.
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I've been payed to not play.
Alan, the money your mom gave you was so that you COULD play, not so you could skip out and go chase buffalo.
I've been payed to make other people not play. Permanently.
That sounds...sinister...
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Muhahaha mmyesss yesss it isss.
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I've been payed to not play.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me ::)
If there were to be a tier system, I would suggest it work like th chess system, where you go up a certain amount for a win and down for a loss. It would be really cool if it was built into Redemption Live!, but that would probably mean we'd have to wait even longer for it, which is an idea that I don't think many people are fond of.
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Type 1.5 is more of a "heavy" type 1 deck where as it would be a "lite" type 2 deck.
Alex, some facts to consider about 1.5; the fella who came up with the idea never buys cards soooooo acquiring 4-5 copies of cards for him is far fetched. Another thing to consider, our group is only about 2 years old and that's only for about 3 of us. With that in mind, getting that many copies of cards gets expensive especially for newer players. Even for me its tough since I give cards away to new players and good ones to get them to stick around. So being able to run two copies in a type 1 legal deck is nice and the deck being type 2 legal is another plus for a new player being able to legally enter two different categories with "one" deck is a great thing.
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I don't respect States or even some Regionals. A great example is type 1.5. It works in FL, but until it works somewhere else, I can't take it seriously.
I though you like it, in fact like it so much that your booster draft ranking states otherwise, lol. I'm kidding, I don't mean anything by it, please take the statement lightly...
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is type 1.5 where you can have up to 5 (now 4?) copies of a card, but no deck minimum of 100?
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is type 1.5 where you can have up to 5 (now 4?) copies of a card, but no deck minimum of 100?
No. Its a 2 card max per card if its legal, only 1 multi-color (3 brigades or more). Evil & Good cards also have to be equal inorder to be type 2 legal at the same time. If you went 4 copies then it would become a type 2 deck entirely. Its a hybrid of the two formats.
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is type 1.5 where you can have up to 5 (now 4?) copies of a card, but no deck minimum of 100?
No. Its a 2 card max per card if its legal, only 1 multi-color (3 brigades or more). Evil & Good cards also have to be equal inorder to be type 2 legal at the same time. If you went 4 copies then it would become a type 2 deck entirely. Its a hybrid of the two formats.
I think I heard an idea about a tournament where each player built one deck for all five open categories, and the tourney winner was based on who averaged the highest place over all categories. I think that idea would be awesome, and calling it a type 1.5 tourney would be appropriate.
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If there were to be a tier system, I would suggest it work like th chess system, where you go up a certain amount for a win and down for a loss. It would be really cool if it was built into Redemption Live!, but that would probably mean we'd have to wait even longer for it, which is an idea that I don't think many people are fond of.
Here is where the logistical issues come into play...
In chess your ranking is based on every tournament caliber game you play. Players are not allowed to beg off, because then they could cherry pick which games count toward your ranking, which makes the rankings meaningless. Similarly you either have to include all for-fun games (which makes deck testing problematic) or no for-fun games.
For a while I maintained a list of rankings (Glicko-2) for ROOT, but there was no common score reporting format. To make things worse players name would change ( I lost to Rawrlolsauce! I beat the Sauce. Alan must stink because I beat him.) meaning there was a manual name matching that needed to take place. The rankings generated are dependent both on who you played and also the precise order in which games were played. And so on and so forth. So whenever I did an update I would have to manually go in and add new results to the overall list before I could generate the scores. Unfortunately for every result posted there were five to ten non-score posts that had to be skimmed and then ignored. Needless to say this process got old pretty quick.
As I posted earlier--help is coming but it may take a while.
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is type 1.5 where you can have up to 5 (now 4?) copies of a card, but no deck minimum of 100?
No. Its a 2 card max per card if its legal, only 1 multi-color (3 brigades or more). Evil & Good cards also have to be equal inorder to be type 2 legal at the same time. If you went 4 copies then it would become a type 2 deck entirely. Its a hybrid of the two formats.
In other words, it is a deck that is legal for both Type 1 and Type 2.
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I've been payed to not play.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me ::)
If there were to be a tier system, I would suggest it work like th chess system, where you go up a certain amount for a win and down for a loss. It would be really cool if it was built into Redemption Live!, but that would probably mean we'd have to wait even longer for it, which is an idea that I don't think many people are fond of.
I think the results could be skewed somewhat as MJB said. Another problem would be that you don't lose many points for a loss but get a lot for a win. (I was #9 on chess boards with about 15 wins and 50+ losses.)