Author Topic: Redemption Online Official Tournament (Read 6908 times)

SomeKittens · « **Reply #50 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:46:51 AM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 10:39:07 AM

It's not a program thing imo,

Yes it is. Name me another system of playing games online that requires an extensive setup like RTS and is from this millennium.

My roommate has no trouble finding opponents for MGO. (Except for the occasional issue with the campus network, but that's another issue entirely.) If I want to play Left4Dead, bam, three random people from the internet.

We need problem solving, not excuses.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #51 on:** December 09, 2010, 12:03:20 PM »

Do you play redemption games online? It's not a program thing. That's not an excuse, it's the truth. If someone truely wants to play online, they'll ask for help with RTS/Hamachi setup. That happens very rarely. There isn't a lot of new online players and a lot of the older online players play less or have stopped. Those other games you're talking about have a much bigger player base, which is exactly what I said already.

More people played redemption online when it was more difficult to connect and play, so since it's easier, it's now a program problem? Doesn't make any sense.

The current ROOT rankings is pretty much the people that play redemption online. When in ROOT though, they are basically focused on getting in all ROOT games. You might add 2-3 players to that. So maybe 15 people that play online? It's tough to find games because there's not a whole lot of players to start with.

As I've said before, it's not a ROOT problem, there's just not many people that play online.

The Guardian · « **Reply #52 on:** December 09, 2010, 02:41:44 PM »

w/ Daniel. RTS and Hamachi are not that complicated if someone walks you through them when you're first starting. There's even an extensive self-help/troubleshooting guide that Lambo put together. It's a shrinking pool of people who are willing to play online. Things might get better when RedemptionLive comes out as it could shorten games by adding simple functions that require a couple steps w/ RTS, and if games are shortened, more people might be willing to play online. That remains to be seen however.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #53 on:** December 09, 2010, 03:24:58 PM »

I agree that it's not only the program. However, RTS is needlessly complicated, i.e., more complicated than it should be. This may be contributing to the problem.

The Guardian · « **Reply #54 on:** December 09, 2010, 03:57:55 PM »

It's that way because it hasn't been updated (other than the news sets, and those weren't even done by the original programmer) in a very long time. Back when it was being updated, it was great. And it still beats playing via chat by a huge margin.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #55 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:07:08 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on December 09, 2010, 03:57:55 PM

It's that way because it hasn't been updated (other than the news sets, and those weren't even done by the original programmer) in a very long time. Back when it was being updated, it was great. And it still beats playing via chat by a huge margin.

I completely agree. However, this is no excuse for having a shoddy product. What would happen if someone wanted to start playing Redemption, but had to:
-Buy three products from one store (RTS, and two updates)
-Buy another product, but upon purchase, had to sign up for the loyalty program at the store (Hamachi)
-Got home, had to piece together all four kits (Four separate installs, albeit relatively quick)
-Put everything together and, barring any major failures, finds a small group of those willing to play?

Not only that, those who live in motor homes and apartments can't use it at all (Mac/Linux)

No wonder there aren't any new users.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #56 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:16:21 AM »

It's free.

GamerX created RTS on his own time and dime because he loves the game. Your rude remarks are indefensible.

The Guardian · « **Reply #57 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:29:24 AM »

Quote

However, this is no excuse for having a shoddy product. What would happen if someone wanted to start playing Redemption, but had to:
-Buy three products from one store (RTS, and two updates)

When it first came out, RTS was a single and simple install. It was free, is still free and always will be free.

Quote

-Buy another product, but upon purchase, had to sign up for the loyalty program at the store (Hamachi)

Hamachi wasn't being used back then. I don't even think it was being used when Gamer X stopped updating RTS.

Quote

-Got home, had to piece together all four kits (Four separate installs, albeit relatively quick)

Not sure what's so bad about a couple of quick installs...people build crazy juiced-up computers just for gaming these days...

Quote

-Put everything together and, barring any major failures, finds a small group of those willing to play?

And there we have the only actual problem.

Quote

Not only that, those who live in motor homes and apartments can't use it at all (Mac/Linux)

Except with a little work, there's actually ways around that too, granted they are more complicated, but that was the case for numerous programs (non-cross compatibility) back when RTS came out. It's not unreasonable to assume Gamer X could have eventually created a Mac version (if he had the necessary knowledge of Macs, which I don't know).

Really sorry you feel RTS is so shoddy, but perhaps if you tried playing a game over chat sometime, you would appreciate it much more. $:-\$

SomeKittens · « **Reply #58 on:** December 10, 2010, 12:13:41 PM »

Well, when it first came out, you didn't have any trouble finding people to play with. RTS is a shoddy product compared to what's currently on the market today. Compared to chat, it's amazing.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #59 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:11:53 PM »

It's not a product, it's a service. Try getting to play Halo Reach on Xbox live for free.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #60 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:12:05 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 10, 2010, 12:13:41 PM

Well, when it first came out, you didn't have any trouble finding people to play with. RTS is a shoddy product compared to what's currently on the market today. Compared to chat, it's amazing.

There isn't anything else on the market, so it sounds like your argument is the only shoddy thing around.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #61 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:47:11 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 10, 2010, 01:12:05 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 10, 2010, 12:13:41 PM
Well, when it first came out, you didn't have any trouble finding people to play with. RTS is a shoddy product compared to what's currently on the market today. Compared to chat, it's amazing.

There isn't anything else on the market, so it sounds like your argument is the only shoddy thing around.

*ahem*:
MtGO
Magic Workstation

The Guardian · « **Reply #62 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:13:25 PM »

Can you play Redemption on those? (That's not sarcasm, I have no idea because you kind of make it sound like a person can...)

SomeKittens · « **Reply #63 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:16:52 PM »

Actually, that's a pretty valid question. Yes, you can play Redemption on Magic Workstation (there's no association with MtG). Someone would need to import the cards.

The Schaef · « **Reply #64 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:17:24 PM »

You can't play Redemption through either of those services.

For all its flaws, RTS is a free service and the only one through which Redemption can be played with an online interface other than just plain text chat. These "additional installs" so to speak are add-ons created by users to retain usefulness in a program that has not been serviced in some four or five years.

Additionally, there is a new product coming down the pike which I believe is supposed to have updated functionality and work "in the cloud", as well as a website in development that will allow players to manage card collections, build decks, and form online playgroup clusters.

As someone who is in the process of developing a wiki, I would think you would want people to appreciate the fact that you took the initiative in getting a functional wiki online, and for them to assist you if they are able, and not rip on you for the fact that your wiki still has a lot of holes in it, is not as sleek or stylish as the Yu-Gi-Oh wiki on the same site, or that it wasn't done five years ago by someone else.

Master KChief · « **Reply #65 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:20:23 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 10, 2010, 01:11:53 PM

It's not a product, it's a service. Try getting to play Halo Reach on Xbox live for free.

...which was possible the first weekend halo reach dropped.

The Guardian · « **Reply #66 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:23:12 PM »

The oldest marketing ploy in the book...give 'em a taste for free to get 'em hooked...

The Schaef · « **Reply #67 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:24:05 PM »

As a promotional tool to entice people to purchase a paid service, and not as something inherent in the Reach product, correct?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #68 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:41:55 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on December 10, 2010, 02:17:24 PM

As someone who is in the process of developing a wiki, I would think you would want people to appreciate the fact that you took the initiative in getting a functional wiki online, and for them to assist you if they are able, and not rip on you for the fact that your wiki still has a lot of holes in it, is not as sleek or stylish as the Yu-Gi-Oh wiki on the same site, or that it wasn't done five years ago by someone else.

The wiki is dead. There's no reason to keep it alive, I plan on deleting it once Redemption Connect gets up and running.
I'd rather not people associate me with the wiki, I was just in the right place. If anything, it was mjwolfe that did the hard work. The whole idea was that if people saw problems, they could fix them.

The Schaef · « **Reply #69 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:50:02 PM »

I'm not sure why you would do that when Connect in its current form is just a card repository and doesn't have gameplay information, but that's your prerogative.

However, that signals to me that another aspect to add to that site is wiki-like information. At this rate it stands a good chance of turning into everything the Nexus could have been but wasn't, if enough people get on board to assist.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #70 on:** December 10, 2010, 04:07:13 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 10, 2010, 02:16:52 PM

Actually, that's a pretty valid question. Yes, you can play Redemption on Magic Workstation (there's no association with MtG). Someone would need to import the cards.

Then if RTS is so bad, import that cards. It's easy to critisize, but I until you do something about it, your criticism is worthless. Calling RTS shoddy is a waste. Obviously we all know it could be better. Until you provide something better, however, I will use RTS and be happy.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #71 on:** December 10, 2010, 04:12:41 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 10, 2010, 04:07:13 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 10, 2010, 02:16:52 PM
Actually, that's a pretty valid question. Yes, you can play Redemption on Magic Workstation (there's no association with MtG). Someone would need to import the cards.

Then if RTS is so bad, import that cards. It's easy to critisize, but I until you do something about it, your criticism is worthless. Calling RTS shoddy is a waste. Obviously we all know it could be better. Until you provide something better, however, I will use RTS and be happy.

Personally, I'd much rather see a comprehensive system, with many more features. One of my long term goals here at Roberts is to design something like that. However, it's my first semester.

On another note, I asked about the source code for RTS, but Gamer X hasn't been on in three years.

Quote from: The Schaef on December 10, 2010, 02:50:02 PM

I'm not sure why you would do that when Connect in its current form is just a card repository and doesn't have gameplay information, but that's your prerogative.

However, that signals to me that another aspect to add to that site is wiki-like information. At this rate it stands a good chance of turning into everything the Nexus could have been but wasn't, if enough people get on board to assist.

Community-driven efforts will fail within this community. Unless said efforts are arguing and telling other people how wrong they are for having an opinion.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #72 on:** December 10, 2010, 04:16:22 PM »

Well, then personally, you can't complain. You are excusing why it can not be done rather than taking the iniative to fix something you do not like. Long term goals are great, but you claim to have a short term stop gap and yet are still letting it bleed.

I'm glad you like this community so much, by the way. I'll remember that I no longer can disagree with you in the future.

LordZardeck · « **Reply #73 on:** December 10, 2010, 04:23:50 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 10, 2010, 04:12:41 PM

On another note, I asked about the source code for RTS, but Gamer X hasn't been on in three years.

I talked to Gamer-X a couple of weeks ago, and he has no interest in sharing code. He has been working on it slowly whenever he has free time. But you can always be patient and look forward to Redemption Live! (If it ever is released)

The Schaef · « **Reply #74 on:** December 10, 2010, 04:32:19 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 10, 2010, 04:12:41 PM

Personally, I'd much rather see a comprehensive system, with many more features.

Hence, why I wouldn't be so quick to put Magic Workstation up against RTS.

Quote from: The Schaef on December 10, 2010, 02:50:02 PM

Community-driven efforts will fail within this community. Unless said efforts are arguing and telling other people how wrong they are for having an opinion.

Well, you seem content to lob thinly-veiled criticisms at me for being all talk and no action, even though I assist Rob in his development efforts, have tried maintaining my own site for nearly four years, provided hosting for the RTS system so all the files could be in one convenient location, lent you some help in your efforts with the wiki, and am currently lending assistance to Sean with his design and development of Connect. And that's fine. What seems logical to me, however, would be that encouraging and supporting efforts within the community will at least improve their chances to succeed, while declaring them futile and walking away increases the chance that they will in fact fail, by depriving them of at least one more person.

If you'd care to highlight a post where I said you were wrong just for having an opinion, I would be interested to see that. Finding the right material, however, will require you to differentiate telling someone they are wrong "just for having an opinion" from other ideas, such as disagreeing with the premise of their opinion, suggesting that people might be overstating their case, and taking issue with people whose attacks become both personal and unfair in their nature. So be sure to filter that out of your response.

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Author Topic: Redemption Online Official Tournament (Read 6908 times)

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