Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: CactusRob on May 21, 2009, 08:38:03 AM
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Various questions have been e-mailed to me or posted on the board about obtaining the new set. Here are some answers:
1) Can the new Thesaurus card boxes be redeemed with barcodes?
Barcodes can only be redeemed for booster packs. As with FoOF and RoA, the new Thesaurus card boxes are not eligible for barcode Redemption.
2) Can we buy the new thesaurus card boxes with Redemption Cash?
Yes.
3) Can we buy the new thesaurus card boxes with Redemption Cash at Nationals?
If I have enough. I won't know that for another 4 to 5 weeks. If the job is finished in time to ship before the end of June, then I should have plenty of cards. However, if the job runs into any problems, I will need to airfreight some cards here. That is extremely expensive. I am willing to airfreight in cards to sell at Nationals and to provide for booster draft but, I am not paying to airfreight in cards to be purchased with Redemption Cash.
4) Are you going to offer complete sets of the new cards for sale?
If I do this at all, I will wait at least until next year as I did with RoA. Then it will likely be part of a package deal similar to the current Deluxe Factory Set option.
The thesaurus cards may also start showing up as bonus cards in other things such as: 1 random card added to each Redemption Gift Set and Grab Bag. I may also add an option to the Tournament Host Application for the Tournament Winner card (s) to be a random Thesaurus card.
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Thank you for the Q&A, Rob.
I may also add an option to the Tournament Host Application for the Tournament Winner card (s) to be a random Thesaurus card.
I really like this idea. :thumbup:
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I really like points 2 and 4 :)
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I'm curious as to what other sellers are going to have available as well. I know I've bought just RoA and just FooF stuff in the past two years from places other than Cactus. Anyone know if similar options are going to be available from any of the other sellers?
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how many cards in a box?
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15 per pack, 24 packs per box = 360 cards per box
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15 per pack, 24 packs per box = 360 cards per box
Awesome.
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I know there are only 60 new cards in this set, but is going to be the distribution of them? Like is all 60 cards going to be common/uncommon? Or will there be some Rares/Ultra-Rares thrown in the 60 cards? I'd assume all common/uncommons but wanna make sure...
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They're all the same difficulty, just get 2 random cards per pack.
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They're all the same difficulty, just get 2 random cards per pack.
But they're shiny, so they are automatically ultra-rare! :o
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Wait - so you buy one pack (for $3 or more, probably), and only get 2 cards, on top of the fact that they're random? How will you be able to get an entire set without paying a lot (for those of us, like me, that want to stay current with Redemption but don't have enough money to just lay down a few hundred dollars at a time)?
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The packs cost $5 and only contain 2 NEW cards. There are 13 old cards in the pack, including a number of rares/ultra rares.
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It will take 30 packs (x5 = $150) to get 60 foils. Trade duplicates to complete a set. This works out to be about the same as collecting FooF. (10 tins x $15 = $150)
As a bonus, in those 30 packs, you'll have collected most of the rares from both Patriarchs and Apostles, as well as about half the ultra-raes from each set. You'll also have about half the rares from Prophets.
You will also have collected about 9 rares from Warriors, and probably a Warriors ultra-rare, or maybe even two. Plus a few dozen uncommons and commons from these sets.
That's a pretty sweet deal if you ask me. :)
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Its a great deal for what cards you get. However, it isn't anywhere close to cost effective for people who already have all the older cards.
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Yeah a 150 bucks for a 4th or 5th UR just so I can get 60 new shiny cards doesn't seem appealing. I have been buying all my RoA from Ken4Christ and hopefully he will have TXP cards a few months after the release. But I do know at nationals trades will be flying.
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Remember, if we want a totally new set, and to keep our beloved game going, we have to help Rob through these crappy economic times; this is how we can do that.
~Marti
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..... and you get shiny cards!! ;D
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Remember, if we want a totally new set, and to keep our beloved game going, we have to help Rob through these crappy economic times; this is how we can do that.
This is set is totally new, it just isn't packaged that way.
Also, it is not our job to finance Cactus Game Design. As long as Cactus is offering a product that I want and can afford then I will continue to be a customer. Right now, I'm finding a really hard time justifying my purchase of any of the new set because I have every single card from previous booster pack sets, in triplicate at the least. My only prudent option is to become a single card seller and I'm not sure I have the time for that. I also don't even know if I could actually sell the cards I would have as result of such an undertaking.
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..... and you get shiny cards!! ;D
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Well, if all you guys don't want your ANBs and your Walls and your Writs, I guess I can take them off your hands for you. :p
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I'll take the Destructions and Guardians and Holy Grails and Dragon Raids and Gold King of Tyruses!
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Well, a lot of the good stuff is spoken for already. I guess I'll take the special promo and playtest card inserts. :D
I'd also like to point out that you won't have to pay $5 per pack for every card box of Treasures. Rob has generously given Redemption Cash as an option for tournament prizes that can be used to buy a card box. Tournament hosts are also typically given an opportunity to purchase products at a discount.
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11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. - Philippians 4:11-12
;)
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Thanks guys, I'll put you on the list of potential buyers.
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Hahaha sean's funny. Anyway though the sarcasm from the older guys was not needed,I do not think when Sean is being serious. How can the competitve type 2 guys obtain 5 of each of these without spending so much. I know you can trade but honestly all the main guys are going to want pretty much the same cards so trading is not always the best way. I am not really complaining, just trying to prepare for next years tournament schedule and find the easiest way to make my type 2 decks, because I make a new deck all the time.
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Right. It makes sense. But, I was talking to someone earlier and realized something. We talk about cost efficiency, and although that's nice, in my opinion, this is no different than any other ministry. I will buy (insert item here- usually a shirt) to support a ministry in the same way that I will buy Redemption merchandise for the game to continue to minister to people. God has used this game in huge ways, and He will continue if we give to His Work.
~Marti
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Marti, stop looking at the big picture. There is much more to whine about if you look at how this effects you alone. ;)
I wouldn't worry about this, guys. The Reflections sets were always popular and these follow a similar model. One main difference is that these packs include a HIGHER percentage of rares/ultras.
Yes, Sean, please put me on your list of potential buyers for Guardians and Destructions. I like to have a lot of decks, and those cards are in short supply. Almost EVERYONE wants at least one of each.
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I agree with the general perspective of supporting a ministry. My wife is fully in favor of Redemption being considered a tithe-like opportunity. However, I also look at the fact that Redemption gives me playtime with my son. $150 is not too much to ask considering it is the equivalent of three video games, which many of us would not blink at.
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this is no different than any other ministry
the general perspective of supporting a ministry.
I'm not sold on the concept that Cactus Games is a ministry. Cactus Games is a Christian Business. It is out to make a profit. The product it sells can be used for ministry but that doesn't mean you can tithe towards it. I'm pretty sure people don't donate money to Cactus like they do to their local food pantry. You also don't sow into a ministry so that you can benefit from it yourself. What joker gives a bag of food to the pantry and then asks them to deliver a meal to their house the following week?
$150 is not too much to ask considering it is the equivalent of three video games, which many of us would not blink at.
It is a lot of money to me. Especially considering that the only reason I have video games is because of Christmas gifts and the fact that my mom won a Wii through a raffle at work.
That said, the more I look at it, the more I like the idea of selling off the old cards I don't need. I may be able to make some money off of it if there is enough interest.
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You also don't sow into a ministry so that you can benefit from it yourself.
How exactly am I benefitting from it other than playtime with my son?
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He's reffering to you getting something in return and thus it is not a true donation, I think.
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Janissary is correct but I was also using the plural form of "you." I'm confident that YMT would make/have time with his son with or without Redemption so I don't consider that a valid reason for me or anyone else to buy Redemption cards.
People donate to money to homeless shelters to help the homeless. People buy Redemption cards so they can play a game. Not the same idea.
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Paul's Turn of the Millenium Tents & Poles probably sold a lot of tents just for the profit to pay for his travels. There was a little bit of ministering going on I've heard. :)
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I started a playgroup in Connecticut at a Christian School with the hopes of having a viable ministry that would reach the students who were not being reached by other extracurricular activities. The result was overwhelming, with as many as 30 students attending a weekly club. The parents of those students would often thank me for starting the club because it got their kids away from secular entertainment that they were not comfortable with, got their kids into the Bible again as they studied the cards and characters, increased family time between parents and kids, and provided an opportunity to get the cards into their unsaved friends' hands.
I gave out starter decks for free, traded insanely in their favor to build up their decks, and offered discounted pack prices to cover my overhead costs. The unwavering support of Reyzen made all that possible.
I think you have a very one-sided view of how some of us use Redemption. There are those who stand to make a profit, but there are just as many that take a loss for the sake of the ministry. When lives are changed, families are drawn closer, and unsaved friends are influenced (or at least exposed), then God is at work. Don't discount what our mighty God can do with just a game.
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I gave out starter decks for free, traded insanely in their favor to build up their decks, and offered discounted pack prices to cover my overhead costs.
Do you want a pat on the back?
I've given away entire winnings at state and district tournaments so that younger players with much smaller card pools could make their decks better. I've given away hundreds of cards to children who otherwise wouldn't have played at all. I've mailed hundreds more cards across the country because somebody came on the board and asked for them. Do I get a pat on the back too?
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Your arrogance notwithstanding, ...
You also don't sow into a ministry so that you can benefit from it yourself. What joker gives a bag of food to the pantry and then asks them to deliver a meal to their house the following week?
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Arrogance? I believe it was you who first posted their list of "good works for Redemption". I guess it doesn't matter that I've been just as generous as you have and have done just as much to forward the fellowship that is created through Redemption unless I don't voice my disappointment with how the next set is being sold. My opinion doesn't matter unless it is in praise of the new set. My opinion doesn't matter unless I say it covered in flowers and perfume. Or maybe my opinion just doesn't matter at all?
Your claim that I am discounting what God can do with Redemption is completely off base. I also don't see how that even relates to the statement you quoted. I didn't give to those people so I could benefit from it, I gave to them so they could enjoy the game also. That's different from me buying cards so I can play with them.
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Sigh..... I didn't realize that giving a relevant example to illustrate my point qualified as self-glorification. I guess I should have started with, "I knew this guy once who..." Oh well.
You obviously have issues with the new set distribution, so I will let you wallow in your bitterness. Have fun.
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question what does this new territory class thing do?
Read the article. :P
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question what does this new territory class thing do?
Read the article. :P
wich one?
Have you seen the new 'Treasures of the Past' article?
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question what does this new territory class thing do?
Read the article. :P
wich one?
Have you seen the new 'Treasures of the Past' article?
oh artical.... right.... ;)
2 things. One, stop spamming. Two, when you try to correct someone's spelling, make sure you aren't the one misspelling the word.
artical.......
I gave out starter decks for free, traded insanely in their favor to build up their decks, and offered discounted pack prices to cover my overhead costs.
Do you want a pat on the back?
I've given away entire winnings at state and district tournaments so that younger players with much smaller card pools could make their decks better. I've given away hundreds of cards to children who otherwise wouldn't have played at all. I've mailed hundreds more cards across the country because somebody came on the board and asked for them. Do I get a pat on the back too?
Everyone! I don't see how this is about the new set and I don't think we need to have a war who has given out the most cards! That isn't the purpose of helping people learn about God via a card game.....
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You obviously have issues with the new set distribution, so I will let you wallow in your bitterness.
I think a better description would be sadness because I can't afford to buy the new set as it is being sold.
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It's just a woirldview arguement. Let them say what they want. WE all know in the end no ones mind will be changed, so I pray that Sean and YMT will hold the same respect for each otehr after as they did before.
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FYI, I *will* be selling the new cards as a full set, as well as individual cards. However, I cannot offer price quotes on the individual cards until I have a chance to do some figuring.
I will start accepting pre-orders for full sets NOW! The price for the full set is $90, which will include one of each of the new cards (60 cards total). :) Shipping is $2 per order, as always, and I will have this available at Three Lions Gaming within half an hour. The cards will ship within 2 weeks of their official release!
www.threelionsgaming.com/store_packs.htm (http://www.threelionsgaming.com/store_packs.htm)
Ken
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I think a better description would be sadness because I can't afford to buy the new set as it is being sold.
That I can understand and sympathize with. I did not understand your ambivalence to Redemption being used as a ministry. You probably did not mean it the way it sounded, or perhaps I misunderstood your intentions, but I will continue to view Redemption for its greater purpose.
FWIW, I have no idea how I am going to afford the new set either. :-\
... so I pray that Sean and YMT will hold the same respect for each otehr after as they did before.
The fact that I disagree with Sean's perspective on Redemption's use as a ministry has nothing to do with him personally. I admit that I was frustrated with his response to my explanation for how I perceive Redemption, but I have no reason to lose respect for him as a person. I disagree with my wife in various situations, but I still love her more now than when I met her.
Not that my feelings for Sean are the same as for my wife, mind you. ;)
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Right now, I'm finding a really hard time justifying my purchase of any of the new set because I have every single card from previous booster pack sets, in triplicate at the least.
Law of dimishing return, IMO.
I personally really like the set, but if a player as devoted as Sean is having a 21st century breakdown, I wonder how long one can get by releasing greatest hits albums with a few new tracks.
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So Ken...is there a limit of how many sets you will sell for $90? ;D
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Just a few observations:
As has been cited the set will be somewhat expensive to collect but, not really too different from collecting all cards from FoOF or Priests. However for players who are building decks and not concerned with collecting, the trade options and singles markets should give you enough options to build your decks of choice. Even though I hope all 60 cards will be well received, I find it hard to imagine that any player will add more than 5 or 6 of the new cards to a particular T1 deck if that many and a multiple of that number to a T2 deck.
Second, some players with already large collections may have reason to complain since if they buy the cards as packaged they will get 13 older cards with 2 news cards. But again, since I have confidence in the secondary markets trading and selling singles, you will have other options. Moreover, new players will find these card boxes an excellent jump start on the game.
I think most of the real ministry is done by you fine ladies and gentlemen who are out on the front lines using our games to bring people into Christian fellowship. I appreciate the warms thoughts and support and always welcome your prayers that the Lord will guide me in the management of this company.
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So Ken...is there a limit of how many sets you will sell for $90? ;D
Nope!
Just a few observations:
As has been cited the set will be somewhat expensive to collect but, not really too different from collecting all cards from FoOF or Priests. However for players who are building decks and not concerned with collecting, the trade options and singles markets should give you enough options to build your decks of choice. Even though I hope all 60 cards will be well received, I find it hard to imagine that any player will add more than 5 or 6 of the new cards to a particular T1 deck if that many and a multiple of that number to a T2 deck.
Second, some players with already large collections may have reason to complain since if they buy the cards as packaged they will get 13 older cards with 2 news cards. But again, since I have confidence in the secondary markets trading and selling singles, you will have other options. Moreover, new players will find these card boxes an excellent jump start on the game.
I think most of the real ministry is done by you fine ladies and gentlemen who are out on the front lines using our games to bring people into Christian fellowship. I appreciate the warms thoughts and support and always welcome your prayers that the Lord will guide me in the management of this company.
Rob, I greatly appreciate the tremendous work that you have done in providing an excellent Christian game that is accessible to those with little funds and still enjoyable after many years! Thank you! :)
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I feel the same way about the distibution not being much to my liking. However, I also see ang agree that this will help new players to an extend and be good for trading. (again to an extent.) Sure the cards might lose some monitary value as more people are able to get more rares easily, but this helps new players, who might need better cards, and trading. So yeah, buying a box (or more) of the new set, prolly not a good idea for me as I will soon have all the cards I need from the previous sets and very few people to really trade with locally...But 3LG has fixed that for me an offered a full set for less that the cost of a box....which does work for me...works pretty well for me to be honest. I should really go place my pre-order today...but got a B-day party to go to for my sister.
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I have almost every card, yet I LOVE the distribution for this set. You'll never hear me complaining about getting more Rare/Ultra Rare cards in a pack... I don't care if I have 50 of each
Ok, maybe if I had 50... but even with 2 - 3 boxes of Thesaurus (which is probably what I'm going to try to get), I'm sure I won't get 50 of each Rare/Ultra Rare.
Plus, not only are there shiny's, but there could be promos, autographed cards and original playtest cards?!?!?!?! Heck yes is what I have to say about that!
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I agree. I'd rather get some cards with high trade value rares guaranteed to be bundled in than a chance to get some junk rares. Besides, I'm for anything that will get trading to happen again. It kinda died down when everyone could get exactly what they wanted every time. Plus, it brings the price point lower for some of the students that YMT has previously pointed out as being unable to purchase the tins.
I just know that somebody somewhere that doesn't know the game will open up a pack, take the commons, and throw away a playtest card ("it doesn't look like the others"). Not that I've done that or anything... I mean, I'm not daft enough to throw out a King David promo because it doesn't match the other two in the board game... ::)
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Oh... and there's at least 20 cards that will not go into national ranking decks (unless you want to be original ;)), so you won't need all of them. A lot of people are excited about it, will buy them, have doubles, and then you can buy the few that work with your brigades. Everyone's happy!
:preach:
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Oh... and there's at least 20 cards that will not go into national ranking decks (unless you want to be original ;)), so you won't need all of them. A lot of people are excited about it, will buy them, have doubles, and then you can buy the few that work with your brigades. Everyone's happy!
That's true, but everyone is going to be using the new [edited by R.O.S.E.S.] so those are going to be really hard to get. :o
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Second, some players with already large collections may have reason to complain since if they buy the cards as packaged they will get 13 older cards with 2 news cards. But again, since I have confidence in the secondary markets trading and selling singles, you will have other options.
actually, this will probably kill the secondary market for older, harder to obtain cards.
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actually, this will probably kill the secondary market for older, harder to obtain cards.
Which will put the cards into the hands of players rather than dealers. Woo-hoo! ;D
"Power to the players." - GameStop
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actually, this will probably kill the secondary market for older, harder to obtain cards.
Which will put the cards into the hands of players rather than dealers. Woo-hoo! ;D
"Power to the players." - GameStop
touche! :)
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It won't kill the market for two reasons:
1) These packs are being produced in limited quantities, and demand will likely be fairly high. I would be very surprised if they last longer than 2 years. After that, the prices will creep back up towards their current value. Look at what happened when the 10th anniversary tins were released. They each contained 3 Apostles rares and 3 Patriarchs rares. Players thought the prices of all those rare cards would drop to pennies, but it didn't happen, at least not in the long run. In the short run, the added availability benefits newer players.
2) Prices always adjust. Just because a price drops doesn't mean there isn't still a market for the card. Falling Away was still a desired card back when you could get one in every 11 packs of Women (sold at $2 per pack).
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Hey,
These packs are being produced in limited quantities, and demand will likely be fairly high. I would be very surprised if they last longer than 2 years.
Are you saying the printing run of the new set is significantly smaller than the printing run of previous sets?
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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I hope not - I'd prefer to get an entire new set plus lots of rares, but first I have to find a job. :(
Anyone know of a good chain that accepts 15 yr. old males as workers? ???
Thanks!
P.S. Sorry for going "off topic" here - just wanted to see if there was a way for me to "obtain the new set" more easily).
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I hope not - I'd prefer to get an entire new set plus lots of rares, but first I have to find a job. :(
Anyone know of a good chain that accepts 15 yr. old males as workers? ???
Thanks!
P.S. Sorry for going "off topic" here - just wanted to see if there was a way for me to "obtain the new set" more easily).
Since you live in the midwest (NE?) I think that detasseling could be a good option for you. You can work for 2-3 weeks in July-August and make a decent amount of money for someone your age. It's hot, hard work but it's worth it when you get that paycheck. :)
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It won't kill the market for two reasons:
1) These packs are being produced in limited quantities, and demand will likely be fairly high. I would be very surprised if they last longer than 2 years. After that, the prices will creep back up towards their current value. Look at what happened when the 10th anniversary tins were released. They each contained 3 Apostles rares and 3 Patriarchs rares. Players thought the prices of all those rare cards would drop to pennies, but it didn't happen, at least not in the long run. In the short run, the added availability benefits newer players.
2) Prices always adjust. Just because a price drops doesn't mean there isn't still a market for the card. Falling Away was still a desired card back when you could get one in every 11 packs of Women (sold at $2 per pack).
theres a difference between paying $15 for 6 rares/ur's and something that is more than likely a one time purchase and $5 for something that is collectible and takes numerous purchases to complete and the possibility of hitting 13 rares/ur's in each pack. i never saw people buying numerous tins just to harvest the rares or ultra rares, which is what will easily happen with this new set. with such an influx of readily available rares and ultras, the prices for those cards will take a dive. sorry, but its simple economics.
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But as Bryon said, it would eventually stop falling.
Supply and demand. An ultra rare is still an ultra rare, even if you find it in another package. There were still so many of them made. Eventually, there will be no more. Even if there's several GoYS distributed through this, do you really think that it will drive the cost down that much? Sure, this may effect some lesser used rares (some of the Apostles rares, like the big-numbered Apostles come to mind), but the cards which are already high demand (GoYS, DoN, Wall) will continue to be high demand, they just may cost a dollar or two less.
~Marti
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Some of my kids have been digging for a year and a half or more to find a DoN or a Wall. I doubt they're going to be as concerned about secondary market value.
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im not debating the amount the cards will drop or whether little timmy will finally get his hands on a goys or don. its just that these ultra rares will not be as...well, ultra rare once they are easily plucked out of the new set. and for 5 bux a pop, a few more dollars than a regular pack? timmy can mow a few more lawns and easily obtain a good number of packs. this set is great for the newer crowd/not-so-rich, but bad for the long time collectors that already have everything.
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The number of cards that were printed, are the number of cards that were printed. That has never changed. Whatever price point they eventually land at will be inevitable, whatever value they enjoy now is only because not as many of them have circulated YET.
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That was funny because Schaef actually has a guy named Timmy in his group...
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we dont even know if there will even be such cards found in the packs(goys,destruction,ect.) and if they are- im sure traders will do their best to squeeze every penny out of them for the new set :)
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the prices for those cards will take a dive. sorry, but its simple economics.
and the little kids and us who need an extra well not have to trade as much for a DoN wall GoyS.
this set is great for the newer crowd/not-so-rich, but bad for the long time collectors that already have everything.
so? you well have more to trade with or build another deck with or a type 2 deck
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That is building a type 2 with everything except treasures;p oh it hurts...agh
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That is building a type 2 with everything except treasures;p oh it hurts...agh
you can trade the extra stuff you get for more treasures. Or you can just go after 5 of that one or two cards that you need.
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this set is great for the newer crowd/not-so-rich, but bad for the long time collectors that already have everything.
so? you well have more to trade with or build another deck with or a type 2 deck
yes...yes, thats my silver lining! i swear, i have not seen another ccg reprint/rehash/rerelease/recycle as many cards as redemption does. it gets pretty old after awhile.
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Well, Marvel vs. had like 17 different Wolverine cards, I don't know if it counts as rehashing or not, if you have a 5-drop versus a 7-drop with different powers.
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There were about 17 Frodos in LotR, too.
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i have not seen another ccg reprint/rehash/rerelease/recycle as many cards as redemption does. it gets pretty old after awhile.
I think this is for 2 main reasons. The first is that Redemption has a smaller market than other CCGs, and therefore hasn't sold out of all of their old released sets. This calls for creative marketing (tins, treasures) to keep getting retailers to stock this stuff and get it into players hands.
The second reason is that Rob wants his game to be available to people to play at the top levels without spending thousands of dollars building a deck. That means not banning cards, and keeping prices relatively low. This next set is entirely in keeping with that philosophy. It may mean that Redemption isn't the most lucrative game to collect. But at it's heart, Redemption is about playing, not collecting.
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But at it's heart, Redemption is about playing, not collecting.
yeah, playing with reprints and older cards.
i wouldnt have a problem with this type of set development if more sets were released in a year. and i actually liked the format when it started with foof. i was content with it during roa. but the third time means its stale. essentially charging $5 for only 2 new cards is pretty steep and lacks creativity. 'ooo shiny!' you might say. yeah, thats great...we did that 10 years ago with the yugiohs and pokemons and the mtgs. way to be ahead of the times.
i will be pleasantly surprised the day cactus will actually make a 100% ORIGINAL, NO REPRINTS, NO OLDER CARDS, NO OLDER PACKS expansion set. it looks like that day may never come.
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Sets cost money. Art costs money. We are in a recession. I'd much rather have a set with 1/3 reprinted cards than have a year with no set.
Redemption reuses good art on cards that are underused so that we can have better, usable cards with good art. I'd rather have an Image of Jealousy with quality art on a shiny card and a usable ability and a brand new class of enhancement than have no new set this year.
Further, I'd rather have a game that uses packaging options that get old cards into the hands of new players than have to say goodbye to YET ANOTHER favorite TCG.
Redemption sets in the second half of 2009: 1
Combined sets for Vs, LotR, Star Trek, Star Wars: 0
"Lacks creativity" is harsh. What creative way can you think of to produce a that would be as inexpensive?
It seems you are quick to judge a situation when you don't know all the details.
95% of the runners quit the difficult race, and rather than cheer for one of the few remaining runners who is still moving forward, you complain that he isn't sprinting, or finding a more "creative" way to move more quickly.
I will be pleasantly surprised the day players can accept a set instead of whining about how it is packaged. It looks like that day may never come.
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i will be pleasantly surprised the day cactus will actually make a 100% ORIGINAL, NO REPRINTS, NO OLDER CARDS, NO OLDER PACKS expansion set. it looks like that day may never come.
To be fair, there are different types of reprints. There are "practically the same card" reprints like The Seventh Trumpet and Answered Prayer. Then there are "almost no resemblance" reprints like Image of Jealousy or Mace. I think the latter style is perfectly acceptable.
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I think the former is acceptable in one case: if the card is usable and is no longer available. I wouldn't mind a reprint of Nicholas of Antioch, for example.
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Ahead of the times on a gaming genre in decline? You win the Irony Post of the Week. I suppose Rob should have announced the cards would ship with a little plastic ball that popped out into a rotund likeness of one of the apostles...
The next time you're looking for a company to cater to your materialism, I recommend choosing one that isn't a one-man operation with a considerably smaller budget than most of the big booths at your friendly neighborhood geek con, and a strong focus on low-cost entry and family-friendly gameplay.
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I think the former is acceptable in one case: if the card is usable and is no longer available. I wouldn't mind a reprint of Nicholas of Antioch, for example.
I'm sorry I see a contradiction, did you just say that Nicholas of Antioch is useful? I must be out of it, or not remembering his ability right, I never found him to be useful, even for his intended purpose. ;) :D
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LOL. Your are right. It wasn't the best example. I switched to thinking of a hard-to-find card rather than "playable." Maybe I should have said Dragon Raid?
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Dragon Raid would be a better example yes, though with the introduction of Pergamum its become slightly less played.
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Sets cost money. Art costs money. We are in a recession. I'd much rather have a set with 1/3 reprinted cards than have a year with no set.
agreed: a set is better than no set. i never debated that issue.
Redemption reuses good art on cards that are underused so that we can have better, usable cards with good art. I'd rather have an Image of Jealousy with quality art on a shiny card and a usable ability and a brand new class of enhancement than have no new set this year.
no one said anything about artwork. priority-wise, art is rather low down there in favor of new cards, new mechanics, new abilities, etc.
Further, I'd rather have a game that uses packaging options that get old cards into the hands of new players than have to say goodbye to YET ANOTHER favorite TCG.
'favorite' is subjective. and i like your choice of words...'packaging options'...meaning more. old. cards.
Redemption sets in the second half of 2009: 1
Combined sets for Vs, LotR, Star Trek, Star Wars: 0
3 of those 4 games are discontinued. whats your point here? you're comparing a game still in active circulation against ones that are not. why not compare apples to apples...pokemon, yugioh, world of warcraft, mtg, ufs? go ahead, pick one.
"Lacks creativity" is harsh. What creative way can you think of to produce a that would be as inexpensive?
'lacks creativity' is constructive criticism. cactus is the seller, i am the buyer...its not my job to do cactus'.
It seems you are quick to judge a situation when you don't know all the details.
awesome...enlighten me!
95% of the runners quit the difficult race, and rather than cheer for one of the few remaining runners who is still moving forward, you complain that he isn't sprinting, or finding a more "creative" way to move more quickly.
comparing apples to oranges...again. to play devils advocate though, yes, i would commend the runner that used the jetpack to get to the end of the race.
I will be pleasantly surprised the day players can accept a set instead of whining about how it is packaged. It looks like that day may never come.
this made me laugh the most. the creator/manufacturer/supplier releases a sub-par product, gets a windfall of bad feedback and criticism from its customer base, and somehow this makes us whiners? if you release a product, you open yourself to constructive criticism. maybe instead of being defensive and lashing out at a potential customer, you could simply sit back and be a bit more reflective in what kind of product you're trying to push off on us. i guess i'll just keep 'whining' and keep my money in my pocket.
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Ahead of the times on a gaming genre in decline? You win the Irony Post of the Week.
in case that one got past you, it was /sarcasm. its a literary device!
I suppose Rob should have announced the cards would ship with a little plastic ball that popped out into a rotund likeness of one of the apostles...
sadly, thats actually more creative than just pushing old cards off on us for the past 3+ years. this is probably the smartest suggestion i've heard on the boards in a long time!
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no one said anything about artwork. priority-wise, art is rather low down there in favor of new cards, new mechanics, new abilities, etc.
Territory class enhancements anyone? Thats a new mechanic if I'm not mistaken.
'favorite' is subjective. and i like your choice of words...'packaging options'...meaning more. old. cards.
Whats the problem with Going back through old sets, taking the useless NO sa cards like Image of Jealousy, and giving them abilities? Its basicly creating a new card with an old title. I'm not seeing the issue
this made me laugh the most. the creator/manufacturer/supplier releases a sub-par product, gets a windfall of bad feedback and criticism from its customer base, and somehow this makes us whiners? if you release a product, you open yourself to constructive criticism. maybe instead of being defensive and lashing out at a potential customer, you could simply sit back and be a bit more reflective in what kind of product you're trying to push off on us. i guess i'll just keep 'whining' and keep my money in my pocket.
Sub-par? I have yet to see them release a truely sub-par expansion the past years.
Honestly, I rarely hear you say good things about this game. You always say the playtesters fail at their jobs, they fail at packaging, they fail at new cards... whats the deal?
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I hear that the new holographic cards include a barcode on the left side that can be scanned onto the Gameboy. You get to play two levels of Victory at Hebron, three levels of Ominous Horizons, or you can choose a variety of Bible Trivia games.
If you need the Gameboy scanner, they sell them used at GameStop.
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Mr. KChief tends to, in my limited experience, give criticism that would be extremely valid if Redemption were a different sort of game. If Redemption had more mainstream aspirations and capabilities, and the desire for higher competition and collectibility, then the things he points out would often be relevant. As it stands, some of them tend to run counter to the direction the game has and "wants to" go.
And Mr. Thteacher, wouldn't that add negative value?
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no one said anything about artwork. priority-wise, art is rather low down there in favor of new cards, new mechanics, new abilities, etc.
Territory class enhancements anyone? Thats a new mechanic if I'm not mistaken.
um, ok? i never said the new set wouldnt have new mechanics? that statement was in reference to bryons post about artwork and how i prioritize it. new mechanics = GOOD. new artwork = can live without.
'favorite' is subjective. and i like your choice of words...'packaging options'...meaning more. old. cards.
Whats the problem with Going back through old sets, taking the useless NO sa cards like Image of Jealousy, and giving them abilities? Its basicly creating a new card with an old title. I'm not seeing the issue
you're not seeing the issue because you're on a completely different tangent. i have no problem with cactus remaking old, useless cards with an entirely new ability. but when we say packaging options here, we're talking about bundling a few new cards with a bunch of older ones, ie older booster packs.
this made me laugh the most. the creator/manufacturer/supplier releases a sub-par product, gets a windfall of bad feedback and criticism from its customer base, and somehow this makes us whiners? if you release a product, you open yourself to constructive criticism. maybe instead of being defensive and lashing out at a potential customer, you could simply sit back and be a bit more reflective in what kind of product you're trying to push off on us. i guess i'll just keep 'whining' and keep my money in my pocket.
Sub-par? I have yet to see them release a truely sub-par expansion the past years.
again, subjective. you're entitled to your opinion, as i am to mine. we'll leave it at that.
Honestly, I rarely hear you say good things about this game. You always say the playtesters fail at their jobs, they fail at packaging, they fail at new cards... whats the deal?
um, i call an ace an ace? it doesnt get any simpler than that.
I hear that the new holographic cards include a barcode on the left side that can be scanned onto the Gameboy. You get to play two levels of Victory at Hebron, three levels of Ominous Horizons, or you can choose a variety of Bible Trivia games.
If you need the Gameboy scanner, they sell them used at GameStop.
thanks for the shameless plug 8) but no, sorry, we no longer carry archaic devices such as the gameboy scanner...no extra levels for you!
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Mr. KChief tends to, in my limited experience, give criticism that would be extremely valid if Redemption were a different sort of game. If Redemption had more mainstream aspirations and capabilities, and the desire for higher competition and collectibility, then the things he points out would often be relevant. As it stands, some of them tend to run counter to the direction the game has and "wants to" go.
And Mr. Thteacher, wouldn't that add negative value?
i suppose this much is true. i mean, i can only go by what standard the CCG industry as a whole has set. pardon if i seemed a bit 'harsh', but i feel its perfectly fine if i explicitly express my opinions and feelings towards what kind of product is being released. i dont know...i might buy the new set if there was a ham sandwich taped to each pack of cards.
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And Mr. Thteacher, wouldn't that add negative value?
Are you calling me negative, you warthog-faced baffoon? I was completely serious, you miserable vomitous mass. The only reason that I don't come over to your house right now is because I lack the strength to stand.
But perhaps I have the strength after all.... :maul:
we no longer carry archaic devices such as the gameboy scanner...
I beg to differ. My local GameStop still carries the Gameboy camera and printer. :o
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I beg to differ. My local GameStop still carries the Gameboy camera and printer. :o
whoa...crazy...do you live in the boondocks? ;)
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whoa...crazy...do you live in the boondocks? ;)
Actually, now that I think about it, the only reason that they had them was because I traded them in for some Giratina stickers.
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It may mean that Redemption isn't the most lucrative game to collect.
Let's get one thing straight. Redemption has never been lucrative for the players in any sort of monetary way. I don't think Rob lives in a 10 bedroom mansion with a pool and tennis court either.
That means not banning cards, and keeping prices relatively low. This next set is entirely in keeping with that philosophy.
Unfortunately, for people who have the old cards, the price is actually higher.
But at it's heart, Redemption is about playing, not collecting.
And yet, as a long time player who has nearly every card, I'm being forced to "collect" old cards in order to play with new ones.
This release is really great for somebody who is young in the game because it gives them easy access to the good cards from older sets that, for them, are hard to get. This allows them to be more competitive sooner and I think that's a good thing. However, it makes it hard on the players who have been in the game the longest. Its great to make it easy on the newer and younger players, but at the cost of hurting the older players? I understand that Cactus is trying to sell older cards to make way for new ones in the future and to put out a product even in hard financial times but players such as myself would be unwise to buy this new set because it isn't cost effective for them. Buying 2 new cards and 13 cards I already have for $5.00 isn't something that I can do and not feel stupid and gluttonous afterward.
I disagree with the issues concerning the content of the new set with regards to game play and the like. Rob and the play testers have been doing a really good job with the new cards for the past couple of years.
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agreed: a set is better than no set. i never debated that issue. ...but you'd rather look at the glass as half empty.
no one said anything about artwork. priority-wise, art is rather low down there in favor of new cards, new mechanics, new abilities, etc. Ah. OK. Good. I misunderstood what you meant by "reprint." In that case, there are zero reprints in this set. It is 100% new! And you thought it would never happen. :)
'favorite' is subjective. and i like your choice of words...'packaging options'...meaning more. old. cards.You don't have to buy the cards in the boxes. You can buy them in complete sets from Ken or others.
3 of those 4 games are discontinued. whats your point here? you're comparing a game still in active circulation against ones that are not. why not compare apples to apples...pokemon, yugioh, world of warcraft, mtg, ufs? go ahead, pick one.Actually, all 4 of the games I listed are discontinued. I am comparing Redemption to them because they were all games that existed at the same time, and Redemption outlasted all of them. In order to outlast them, Redemption had to produce the last few sets in an inexpensive way.
'lacks creativity' is constructive criticism. cactus is the seller, i am the buyer...its not my job to do cactus'.No, it is just criticism. Constructive criticism would be to actually offer a suggested improvement. HELPFUL constructive criticism
awesome...enlighten me!The economy is poor. Christian Bookstores are not in the position to buy tons of product to put on their shelves. It looked like Cactus would not produce a set this summer (it might have been delayed for 6 months or even a year). This option provided a way to get a lot of things players wanted (foils, new cards, new class of enhancement, better game balance, new "cultures" to use, etc.) while still being cost effective for Cactus. It really was this or nothing. Enlightened?
comparing apples to oranges...again. to play devils advocate though, yes, i would commend the runner that used the jetpack to get to the end of the race. Who buys the jetpack? Rob is Cactus. Cactus is Rob. Rob probably can't afford a risky investment like a jetpack. Rob is the one with the business. What you call "creativity" Rob might know better as "debt creator" or even "business killer." He's been in the game business for longer than you've been playing games.
this made me laugh the most. the creator/manufacturer/supplier releases a sub-par product, gets a windfall of bad feedback and criticism from its customer base, and somehow this makes us whiners? if you release a product, you open yourself to constructive criticism. maybe instead of being defensive and lashing out at a potential customer, you could simply sit back and be a bit more reflective in what kind of product you're trying to push off on us. i guess i'll just keep 'whining' and keep my money in my pocket.First, I am not a creator, manufacturer, nor supplier of the product. Read under my name over there <--. I am only a playtester. Second, you have no credibility if you call a set "sub par" before you have seen it. Third, 2 whining players does not = "windfall" (further damging your credibility). Fourth, I am defending a friend and brother, which is entirely different than defending yourself. Maybe you like to sit back in reflection when your brother is labeled "uncreative" by someone who is ignorant of the details. I'd rather defend my friend/brother (though he might not care if I do). Fifth, I am not trying to "push off" product on anyone. Whether the product sells or not makes exactly zero difference to my pocketbook. What I buy for my playgroup gets sold at my cost. Thankfully, for the sake of the life of the game I love, this product will fly off the shelves in spite of your whining.
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Sean, I completely understand that the die-hard, long-time Redemption fans who already have every card will be buying a whole pack for only 2 new cards. I am in that same situation. If that is all you got, I could see that having to spend $5 for 2 random "rares" would feel like a bit of a bad deal. But that is not all you get. You get 13 cards that you can sell to make much of that money back. That money you get back can be used to buy the singles of the new set that you are missing. I understand that means more work for you. I understand that work is not convenient. But I hope that you can understand that the extra work you do in selling extras/buying singles (or trading) is a necessity because of the recession, and that it will ultimately help the new player who buys your extras by getting those cards into his hands.
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"Lacks creativity" is harsh. What creative way can you think of to produce a that would be as inexpensive?
'lacks creativity' is constructive criticism. cactus is the seller, i am the buyer...its not my job to do cactus'.
Constructive criticism requires both specifics and ideas to rework the problems. 'Lacks creativity' is very vague, so Bryon is wanting specifics and your thoughts of what should be done (see: constructive criticism), rather than just you complaining.
I will be pleasantly surprised the day players can accept a set instead of whining about how it is packaged. It looks like that day may never come.
this made me laugh the most. the creator/manufacturer/supplier releases a sub-par product, gets a windfall of bad feedback and criticism from its customer base, and somehow this makes us whiners? if you release a product, you open yourself to constructive criticism. maybe instead of being defensive and lashing out at a potential customer, you could simply sit back and be a bit more reflective in what kind of product you're trying to push off on us. i guess i'll just keep 'whining' and keep my money in my pocket.
What's subpar about it? The previously released cards being included? That didn't stop members of this board from rating the FooF tin one of Cactus' top 3 releases (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=13562.0). And Kings made quite a few of the top 5 lists, even considering nearly a third (or was it a fourth...) were reprints. If you don't like it, it's a fair opinion, and feel free to express some creative criticism (Rob and the playtesters are amazingly cool about listening to what we think), but please don't just complain.
On a side note, the new cards are, to my mind, not far off from being worth the $5 by themselves, especially since they will probably have high-end rare type trade value. The rereleased cards are just a superb bonus.
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I'm actually more excited about this set that any of the previous releases, and I'm what you would consider a veteran who has a zillion cards floating around. I'm vaguely contemplating buying a full set of the new cards from someone, but I'm pretty sure I'll end up just buying a display box. I enjoy the thrill of finally making a trade that brings in that hard-to-find card, and the potential to pull a DoN, a GoYS, and a King David in the same box is, while highly unlikely, too juicy to pass up. This set is poised to be the most fun I've had buying Redemption cards since I started around Priests: just getting a box of 100 or 90 new cards shipped to you and then being done with it isn't nearly as fun as the rush of not knowing what's hiding inside a bunch of packs.
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agreed: a set is better than no set. i never debated that issue. ...but you'd rather look at the glass as half empty.
everything in life isnt all cute and fuzzy. its called reality.
no one said anything about artwork. priority-wise, art is rather low down there in favor of new cards, new mechanics, new abilities, etc. Ah. OK. Good. I misunderstood what you meant by "reprint." In that case, there are zero reprints in this set. It is 100% new! And you thought it would never happen. :)
i sincerely hope by this statement you do not mean you simply changed one word in the special ability of an older card and called it good.
'favorite' is subjective. and i like your choice of words...'packaging options'...meaning more. old. cards.You don't have to buy the cards in the boxes. You can buy them in complete sets from Ken or others.
i dont see why i should have to rely on the secondary market to assemble me a complete set of just the new cards whilst weeding out all the ones that are completely useless to me. if the objective is to have older cards more readily available to newer players, why not just lower the price of older packs of cards and say, release a completely new set of just new cards?
3 of those 4 games are discontinued. whats your point here? you're comparing a game still in active circulation against ones that are not. why not compare apples to apples...pokemon, yugioh, world of warcraft, mtg, ufs? go ahead, pick one.Actually, all 4 of the games I listed are discontinued. I am comparing Redemption to them because they were all games that existed at the same time, and Redemption outlasted all of them. In order to outlast them, Redemption had to produce the last few sets in an inexpensive way.
thats...great redemption has outlasted all the aforementioned games, im not disputing that. pat on the back for redemption. moving on.
'lacks creativity' is constructive criticism. cactus is the seller, i am the buyer...its not my job to do cactus'.No, it is just criticism. Constructive criticism would be to actually offer a suggested improvement. HELPFUL constructive criticism
no...constructive criticism does not necessarily have to be 'helpful'...im just merely stating my opinion and why i believe it to be that way. saying 'redemption is a pretty bad game' and providing no details as to why would be, as you put it, harsh.
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awesome...enlighten me!The economy is poor. Christian Bookstores are not in the position to buy tons of product to put on their shelves. It looked like Cactus would not produce a set this summer (it might have been delayed for 6 months or even a year). This option provided a way to get a lot of things players wanted (foils, new cards, new class of enhancement, better game balance, new "cultures" to use, etc.) while still being cost effective for Cactus. It really was this or nothing. Enlightened?
you're really not telling me anything i didnt know before. its pretty obvious cactus is hurting from the economy and this is their 'cost-efficient' gameplan, to put it.
comparing apples to oranges...again. to play devils advocate though, yes, i would commend the runner that used the jetpack to get to the end of the race. Who buys the jetpack? Rob is Cactus. Cactus is Rob. Rob probably can't afford a risky investment like a jetpack. Rob is the one with the business. What you call "creativity" Rob might know better as "debt creator" or even "business killer." He's been in the game business for longer than you've been playing games.
...but you have to admit, a jetpack would still be pretty cool.
this made me laugh the most. the creator/manufacturer/supplier releases a sub-par product, gets a windfall of bad feedback and criticism from its customer base, and somehow this makes us whiners? if you release a product, you open yourself to constructive criticism. maybe instead of being defensive and lashing out at a potential customer, you could simply sit back and be a bit more reflective in what kind of product you're trying to push off on us. i guess i'll just keep 'whining' and keep my money in my pocket.First, I am not a creator, manufacturer, nor supplier of the product. Read under my name over there <--. I am only a playtester.
i never said you were. i know who you are. when i say 'you' there, i mean cactus in general.
Second, you have no credibility if you call a set "sub par" before you have seen it.
again, miscommunication. i never claimed this new set as sub par; it was just a blanket statement pertaining to simple economics...if a company releases a bad product, you'll get bad feedback.
Third, 2 whining players does not = "windfall" (further damging your credibility).
*see above*
Fourth, I am defending a friend and brother, which is entirely different than defending yourself. Maybe you like to sit back in reflection when your brother is labeled "uncreative" by someone who is ignorant of the details. I'd rather defend my friend/brother (though he might not care if I do).
thats awfully big hearted of you. unfortunately, that means little much of anything in the business world. i see a bad product. i do not like it. i will probably not buy it. 'nuff said.
Fifth, I am not trying to "push off" product on anyone. Whether the product sells or not makes exactly zero difference to my pocketbook. What I buy for my playgroup gets sold at my cost. Thankfully, for the sake of the life of the game I love, this product will fly off the shelves in spite of your whining.
thats awesome, great, good job, give yourself a cookie...and i truly do wish redemption the best...but how this game sells to others has nothing to do with me. just give me my ham sandwich and we'll call it a day.
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"Lacks creativity" is harsh. What creative way can you think of to produce a that would be as inexpensive?
'lacks creativity' is constructive criticism. cactus is the seller, i am the buyer...its not my job to do cactus'.
Constructive criticism requires both specifics and ideas to rework the problems. 'Lacks creativity' is very vague, so Bryon is wanting specifics and your thoughts of what should be done (see: constructive criticism), rather than just you complaining.
no. a person giving 'constructive criticism' is one who merely offers a reasoned judgement or analysis. wikipedia is your friend.
i'm not opposed to being helpful when i can, but its not my job to baby cactus and do their job for them (especially if im not getting paid for it).
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Then Wikipedia will fail fourth grade. That's simply being a critic. Constructive criticism requires the compassion to recommend a process of fixing the specific mistakes you see.
[edit] Turns out Wikipedia wasn't wrong, just your definition:
Constructive criticism, or constructive analysis, is a compassionate attitude towards the person qualified for criticism. Having higher experience, gifts, respect, knowledge in specific field and being able to verbally convince at the same time, this person is intending to uplift the other person materially, morally, emotionally or spiritually. For high probability in succeeding compassionate criticism, the critic has to be in some kind of healthy personal relationship with the other one, which is normally a parent to child, friend to friend, teacher to student, spouse to spouse or any kind of recognized authority in specific field. Hence the word constructive is used so that something is created or visible outcome generated rather than the opposite. Participatory learning in pedagogy is based on these principles of constructive criticism, focusing on positive examples to be emulated over precepts to be followed.
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Sean, I completely understand that the die-hard, long-time Redemption fans who already have every card will be buying a whole pack for only 2 new cards. I am in that same situation. If that is all you got, I could see that having to spend $5 for 2 random "rares" would feel like a bit of a bad deal. But that is not all you get. You get 13 cards that you can sell to make much of that money back. That money you get back can be used to buy the singles of the new set that you are missing. I understand that means more work for you. I understand that work is not convenient. But I hope that you can understand that the extra work you do in selling extras/buying singles (or trading) is a necessity because of the recession, and that it will ultimately help the new player who buys your extras by getting those cards into his hands.
I put up a list of ultra rare cards that I'm wanting to sell now to see how they will sell. If I don't get a good response then I'm not going to be buying any of the new set because I just can't afford to do that. If people don't want mint and near mint ultra rares now I don't see them wanting them after Treasures releases in August/September. If entire sets sold at half their value don't sell then I don't know what will.
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in case that one got past you, it was /sarcasm. its a literary device!
So when you get called out on a nonsensical statement, you run to the "I didn't really mean that they were behind the times, that was just a device" card? Either you want the game to be more innovative (by your vague, cryptic standard) or you do not.
sadly, thats actually more creative than just pushing old cards off on us for the past 3+ years. this is probably the smartest suggestion i've heard on the boards in a long time!
Ripping off Bakugan is the most creative thing you've heard?
The point was that card games in general have declined to the point where the companies trying to put out new ones have been including gimmicks in addition to the cards. Wiz Kids, for example, sells Star Wars PocketModel which has little constructable models to go with the cards. Same with Pirates of the Spanish Main. Sega/SpinMaster are the ones who did Bakugan. I could probably mention the Pokemon miniatures that are new out, and then there's the other stuff from recent years like Beyblades et al.
The simple fact of the matter is that card games as a whole are on the downside. It's why Decipher dumped their line to build Fight Klub with franchise characters as a hook, and direct sales instead of store sales. It's why the other companies are folding their old card games. It's why most new card games are either based on movies (which come out, last for about six months, then die), or have some kind of gimmick attached like the ones above. The only living examples of the old guard are Magic, Pokemon, whatever Upper Deck is cycling this month, and the niche games that have weathered the time (Redemption, Warlord, L5R, Vampyre after the reboot).
As much as Redemption might want to be a mainstream game, it survived as a niche game and grew under the publishing schedules that Rob thought best, even in years when other games were sliding. The game isn't going to grow by trying to keep up with or even get ahead of trends, because this late in the life cycle, there are none. You just build on what you have.
And speaking of building on what you have, if this is supposed to be about collectibility, to the point where putting more (already printed and cut) cards into the market is bad because it dilutes value, wouldn't that mean that increasing the playability of older cards would actually increase their value by enhancing their viability? And as such, finding ways to encourage play of the older cards should be a PLUS for "collectors" instead of a point of criticism?
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A few "things" (just to "lighten" the mood, and to offer what I hope is constructive criticism):
1) Optimists see the glass as half full. Pessimists see the glass as half empty. Engineers see that you've got twice as much glass as you need. ;)
2) Last time I checked, the old Image of Jealousy had zero (0) words, while the new one has eighteen (18) words on it - not quite your "one word" difference. ;)
3) I, being one of the "newer"/"smaller pocketbook-customers", greatly enjoy the prospects of this set. You can pay $150 (the same price, approx., for RoA/FooF in their tins), trade the extras you get for the ones you need, and then sell everything you have. I'm betting there's a lot of newer players out there willing to buy all your R/UR's for 50-75% of their regular price (sorry 3LG :( ), and you'll be able to make back all of your money. By golly - you may even make a profit from this! :o :o :o :o :o Plus, who says you have to buy the packs? Ken and others are offering the set for $90 (which, for $60 more, I'd just go with 30 booster boxes, since you'll get a lot more value), which you can buy to just get the new cards. Hey, I've got an idea - you can sit this set out!!! :o :o :o It's a shocker, I know, but hey, you can always buy a few "select" cards if you really want them.
4) For the constructive criticism (coming from someone who's wanted to be a game creator/seller for most of his life, but can't really start his own business :P ):
A) I think this is a great way to make the set - props to all involved with the planning.
B) Maybe if you had 2 forms of a set made (on the same sheets to cut costs) - one that was geared more towards upper-level players (with maybe a few more new cards - not sure how exactly this would work) and one that was reprints and such that would get cheap, powerful cards into the hands of "newbies". After all, you need a growing "customer base" to be able to keep going (since we're in a recession).
C) If people are complaining soooooooo much about having too many older cards, maybe make some special card deals through Cactus that worked off of turning old cards in (that are useful/R/UR) to something similar to Storehouse (but separate), and then this program would get cards out into the new players' hands for a small fee. Then, the "donors" could use the credit from turning in old cards to get some sort of really good promo of sorts. This seems like it would "interest" the "vets" while still getting cards to "newbies".
Hope this helps!!!
*EDIT* More of my "silly little 15.5 (:P) yr. old ideas. :D
- Make 2 promos for the idea "C" above. One would be used by "advanced players", which would have a SA dealing with how many R/UR they have in the deck or something (just for "kicks and giggles"). The one for "newbies" would be something on the side of, "If you have less than X R/UR cards in deck..." (again, just for "kicks and giggles"). I realize this probably won't work, but thought I'd type it out anyways, since my brain likes to share what it thinks. :laugh:
- Make a "Family Set". I don't know if that's what you tried to do in the 10th anniversary set or something like that (as at the time I didn't really know about it since I wasn't on here yet), but I think selling a set that is more geared towards family involvement is good. I know you tried to make one like that before (board game - it's sitting 3 yards/meters from me next to my bookcase), but maybe make a card set that tried to get kids to involve their parents (or vice versa). This would add to your attempts of having the game be "family-friendly", would possibly get more buyers (since parents inevitably have more money to spend on expansions and such than their kids do :laugh: ), and could still even give some sort of options towards "advanced" or "solo" players (sorry, but I just got to say it - PROPS, YMT, FOR GETTING THIS GAME INVOLVED IN YOUR FAMILY/SCHOOL!!! ). If you'd like some ideas for this, I'll PM them to you tomorrow (just shoot me a PM) - I don't have time to type them out now, but I have some finals tomorrow in school that will be a piece of cake, so I'll have plenty of time to work on my ideas some more.
Again, hope this helps!!!
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text - I've had many thoughts on this for a while, and just finally decided to post most of them. :P :laugh:
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...You get 13 cards that you can sell to make much of that money back. That money you get back can be used to buy the singles of the new set that you are missing. I understand that means more work for you. I understand that work is not convenient. But I hope that you can understand that the extra work you do in selling extras/buying singles (or trading) is a necessity because of the recession...
heres what i find ironic. the reason we're getting a bunch of old card bundled in with the new set with a jacked up price-point is because we're in a recession and this is cactus' 'cost-effective' strategy, correct? so, if im understanding this correctly...if we're in a recession, why would anyone BUY these bundled cards on the secondary market? case in point: the boards. 99% of the people here trade instead of buy. the only ones that buy on here are pretty much the ones with secure incomes that have the luxury of toying around with some of their extra cash...and those are usually the hardcore collectors that pretty much have everything. so, by you even stating this, you're essentially suggesting we buy cactus' extra stock and...sell it for them? of which 99% of the time we will never see any monetary returns from this? wow, what a business plan...good luck with that!
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May I suggest that this discussion is not beneficial in any way? As people have already mentioned, if you don't like the way the set is being sold, you have options:
1. Don't get the new cards
2. Trade for the new cards
3. Buy the new cards as a set (or individual cards once they're out) from me or anyone else interested in selling them
Continuing the same argument isn't getting anywhere...
Engineers see that you've got twice as much glass as you need. ;)
I guess I should have been an engineer - that's what I've been saying for a decade now! :)
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May I suggest that this discussion is not beneficial in any way? As people have already mentioned, if you don't like the way the set is being sold, you have options:
1. Don't get the new cards
2. Trade for the new cards
3. Buy the new cards as a set (or individual cards once they're out) from me or anyone else interested in selling them
Continuing the same argument isn't getting anywhere...
Engineers see that you've got twice as much glass as you need. ;)
I guess I should have been an engineer - that's what I've been saying for a decade now! :)
I agree, but since I just wrote my response, I'll post it. ;)
...You get 13 cards that you can sell to make much of that money back. That money you get back can be used to buy the singles of the new set that you are missing. I understand that means more work for you. I understand that work is not convenient. But I hope that you can understand that the extra work you do in selling extras/buying singles (or trading) is a necessity because of the recession...
heres what i find ironic. the reason we're getting a bunch of old card bundled in with the new set with a jacked up price-point is because we're in a recession and this is cactus' 'cost-effective' strategy, correct? so, if im understanding this correctly...if we're in a recession, why would anyone BUY these bundled cards on the secondary market? case in point: the boards. 99% of the people here trade instead of buy. the only ones that buy on here are pretty much the ones with secure incomes that have the luxury of toying around with some of their extra cash...and those are usually the hardcore collectors that pretty much have everything. so, by you even stating this, you're essentially suggesting we buy cactus' extra stock and...sell it for them? of which 99% of the time we will never see any monetary returns from this? wow, what a business plan...good luck with that!
I totally disagree. While the hardcore players may not need the extra Rs and URs, this set will be INCREDIBLE to everyone who isn't a huge player. I know many in my playgroup who I project will go CRAZY over this set. While I won't buy many, (single foil cards for me), Cactus is aiming for another audience with this set. I project it will be one of the best selling ever. However, this set MAY hurt the sales of normal boosters, but I don't think Cactus cares since they make $2 more of these sets.
In a recession, people look for cheap. This set has MUCH more bang for the buck than any booster (and maybe even any other tin), so I think it will do very well.
Just my :2cents:
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heres what i find ironic. the reason we're getting a bunch of old card bundled in with the new set with a jacked up price-point is because we're in a recession and this is cactus' 'cost-effective' strategy, correct?
No, that's not correct. You're getting 15 cards, including 2 new foils and 7-13 rare cards for $5. 10 cards in most recent sets sell for $3 and contain exactly 1 rare (and technically, no new cards). In terms of card stock, yes, it's 50% more cards for 67% more dollars, but at the very least, you're effectively getting a booster pack worth of rares.
To frame it the way you choose to frame it, is not even to see the glass as half empty; you're basically pouring out the glass and shattering it against the pavement, and then criticizing it for being in pieces.
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May I suggest that this discussion is not beneficial in any way? As people have already mentioned, if you don't like the way the set is being sold, you have options:
1. Don't get the new cards
2. Trade for the new cards
3. Buy the new cards as a set (or individual cards once they're out) from me or anyone else interested in selling them
Continuing the same argument isn't getting anywhere...
Engineers see that you've got twice as much glass as you need. ;)
I guess I should have been an engineer - that's what I've been saying for a decade now! :)
I agree, but since I just wrote my response, I'll post it. ;)
...You get 13 cards that you can sell to make much of that money back. That money you get back can be used to buy the singles of the new set that you are missing. I understand that means more work for you. I understand that work is not convenient. But I hope that you can understand that the extra work you do in selling extras/buying singles (or trading) is a necessity because of the recession...
heres what i find ironic. the reason we're getting a bunch of old card bundled in with the new set with a jacked up price-point is because we're in a recession and this is cactus' 'cost-effective' strategy, correct? so, if im understanding this correctly...if we're in a recession, why would anyone BUY these bundled cards on the secondary market? case in point: the boards. 99% of the people here trade instead of buy. the only ones that buy on here are pretty much the ones with secure incomes that have the luxury of toying around with some of their extra cash...and those are usually the hardcore collectors that pretty much have everything. so, by you even stating this, you're essentially suggesting we buy cactus' extra stock and...sell it for them? of which 99% of the time we will never see any monetary returns from this? wow, what a business plan...good luck with that!
I totally disagree. While the hardcore players may not need the extra Rs and URs, this set will be INCREDIBLE to everyone who isn't a huge player. I know many in my playgroup who I project will go CRAZY over this set. While I won't buy many, (single foil cards for me), Cactus is aiming for another audience with this set. I project it will be one of the best selling ever. However, this set MAY hurt the sales of normal boosters, but I don't think Cactus cares since they make $2 more of these sets.
In a recession, people look for cheap. This set has MUCH more bang for the buck than any booster (and maybe even any other tin), so I think it will do very well.
Just my :2cents:
im not seeing the correlation between the majority of what you said and disagreeing with me. what exactly are you in disagreement about? you fail to speculate. im talking about the fact hardly anyone will pay cold hard cash for the extra bundled cards in the pack (and the fact cactus essentially encourages us to buy into their old stock and resell it for them)...and you go off on an entirely different tangent. i agree with you, newer/'non-huge' players will go nuts over this set because of the proposed sheer value... and i suppose that is cactus' target demographic...but it ultimately leaves the rest of us more hardcore players out to dry.
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May I suggest that this discussion is not beneficial in any way? As people have already mentioned, if you don't like the way the set is being sold, you have options:
1. Don't get the new cards
2. Trade for the new cards
3. Buy the new cards as a set (or individual cards once they're out) from me or anyone else interested in selling them
Continuing the same argument isn't getting anywhere...
Engineers see that you've got twice as much glass as you need. ;)
I guess I should have been an engineer - that's what I've been saying for a decade now! :)
Sorry - I was not trying to keep this going. In fact, I was hoping to help steer it a little back on track, if anything. So, to do that, I guess I'll make this post:
So, everyone out there who is planning on going to buy this set (in mass bulk or selective new cards) - how are you planning on using your new cards? Old cards? How do you plan on affording them (tips for those with smaller incomes, or none, for that matter)? Is anyone here going to go to Nationals just to get the new set?
*EDIT but it ultimately leaves the rest of us more hardcore players out to dry.
Not really - hang on to them. Not everything in life is immediate. We'll come out of the recession eventually, and then the prices of everything will go up (simple supply and demand - though this probably won't be directly tied to the economy, I'm doing it just for simplicity right now). So, you'll stand to make quite a bit in the long run (and even the "short run").
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Oh! Oh! pick me I am! thats one of my main reasons for going!
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heres what i find ironic. the reason we're getting a bunch of old card bundled in with the new set with a jacked up price-point is because we're in a recession and this is cactus' 'cost-effective' strategy, correct?
No, that's not correct. You're getting 15 cards, including 2 new foils and 7-13 rare cards for $5. 10 cards in most recent sets sell for $3 and contain exactly 1 rare (and technically, no new cards). In terms of card stock, yes, it's 50% more cards for 67% more dollars, but at the very least, you're effectively getting a booster pack worth of rares.
a 'booster pack' worth of OLD rares. useless to those that already have them. to us, this equates to $5 for 2 new cards, whichever way you want to cut it. you can sugarcoat it all you want...it STILL comes down to TWO NEW CARDS FOR FIVE BUCKS.
replace the 13 bundled cards with brand spankin' new rares/ultra rares, then we can talk.
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So, for FooF and RoA it was $1.50 per new card, and this set has tons of extra R/UR's. Great deal, IMHO.
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maybe thats why with foof and roa i didnt have much of a problem...$1.50 per new card isnt too shabby. $2.50 per card i see as almost a blatant rip-off...almost the same cost as a retail pack of cards, but im getting 9 cards less. boo.
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useless to those that already have them.
You keep making the assumption that people in that situation make up ALL of Cactus' audience. I would guess that those people you refer to are a pretty good MINORITY. Just because you might not buy them, as I already stated before, that does NOT equal Cactus not doing well on the set. Cry all you want because you wanted more new cards, but I think it is a great set for everyone, especially newer players.
EDIT: Also remember, if you buy single cards from Ken etc, Cactus is still benefiting. Cactus wins either way: single cards or packs.
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a 'booster pack' worth of OLD rares. useless to those that already have them. to us, this equates to $5 for 2 new cards, whichever way you want to cut it. you can sugarcoat it all you want...it STILL comes down to TWO NEW CARDS FOR FIVE BUCKS.
It's not sugarcoating anything to present the facts as they are, and not as how you choose to interpret them. The FACT is that you still pay $3 for 10 old cards including 9 commons. The fact the rares are "old" does not alter the fact that the value of the pack far exceeds the difference in price, to the point where your claim of the price being "jacked up" is practically untenable.
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useless to those that already have them.
You keep making the assumption that people in that situation make up ALL of Cactus' audience.
where do i EVER say this exactly?
I would guess that those people you refer to are a pretty good MINORITY.
that would be a pretty good assumption, yes.
Just because you might not buy them, as I already stated before, that does NOT equal Cactus not doing well on the set.
did i ever imply cactus not doing great on this set? actually, i said the exact opposite...the majority of the player base are those with lesser incomes and will flock to this set because of sheer value.
EDIT: Also remember, if you buy single cards from Ken etc, Cactus is still benefiting. Cactus wins either way: single cards or packs.
um...ok?
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Do you realize the contradiction you present when saying the pack has "sheer value" that will send people "flocking to" the set, yet calling it a "rip-off" with a "jacked-up price"?
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useless to those that already have them.
You keep making the assumption that people in that situation make up ALL of Cactus' audience.
where do i EVER say this exactly?
I would guess that those people you refer to are a pretty good MINORITY.
that would be a pretty good assumption, yes.
Just because you might not buy them, as I already stated before, that does NOT equal Cactus not doing well on the set.
did i ever imply cactus not doing great on this set? actually, i said the exact opposite...the majority of the player base are those with lesser incomes and will flock to this set because of sheer value.
EDIT: Also remember, if you buy single cards from Ken etc, Cactus is still benefiting. Cactus wins either way: single cards or packs.
um...ok?
...You get 13 cards that you can sell to make much of that money back. That money you get back can be used to buy the singles of the new set that you are missing. I understand that means more work for you. I understand that work is not convenient. But I hope that you can understand that the extra work you do in selling extras/buying singles (or trading) is a necessity because of the recession...
heres what i find ironic. the reason we're getting a bunch of old card bundled in with the new set with a jacked up price-point is because we're in a recession and this is cactus' 'cost-effective' strategy, correct? so, if im understanding this correctly...if we're in a recession, why would anyone BUY these bundled cards on the secondary market? case in point: the boards. 99% of the people here trade instead of buy. the only ones that buy on here are pretty much the ones with secure incomes that have the luxury of toying around with some of their extra cash...and those are usually the hardcore collectors that pretty much have everything. so, by you even stating this, you're essentially suggesting we buy cactus' extra stock and...sell it for them? of which 99% of the time we will never see any monetary returns from this? wow, what a business plan...good luck with that!
The bold parts seem to disagree....
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a 'booster pack' worth of OLD rares. useless to those that already have them. to us, this equates to $5 for 2 new cards, whichever way you want to cut it. you can sugarcoat it all you want...it STILL comes down to TWO NEW CARDS FOR FIVE BUCKS.
It's not sugarcoating anything to present the facts as they are, and not as how you choose to interpret them. The FACT is that you still pay $3 for 10 old cards including 9 commons. The fact the rares are "old" does not alter the fact that the value of the pack far exceeds the difference in price, to the point where your claim of the price being "jacked up" is practically untenable.
FACT: $5 for a pack of the new set.
FACT: 2 new cards, 13 old cards.
FACT: I will more than likely not be able to sell the 13 old cards.
FACT: To me, the 13 old cards are worthless.
FACT: Therefore, I have paid $5 for 2 not-worthless cards.
FACT: 5 divided by 2 = 2.5. I KANZ DO MATHS!!!
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Do you realize the contradiction you present when saying the pack has "sheer value" that will send people "flocking to" the set, yet calling it a "rip-off" with a "jacked-up price"?
now whos framing it the way they choose? if you were following closely...newer, non-huge players will flock to this set, because it has tremendous value for them...more bang for their buck. it is a rip-off to the more hardcore gathering, those which already have all those older cards. lets stay on track here, k?
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I still fail to see why you care so much. If you don't want to buy the new set packaged as-is, buy the new cards from Ken or someone. Or don't at all. But as it stands you're literally just complaining for the sake of complaining; solid options have been presented, and nonetheless they are not good enough for you. Why?
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a 'booster pack' worth of OLD rares. useless to those that already have them. to us, this equates to $5 for 2 new cards, whichever way you want to cut it. you can sugarcoat it all you want...it STILL comes down to TWO NEW CARDS FOR FIVE BUCKS.
It's not sugarcoating anything to present the facts as they are, and not as how you choose to interpret them. The FACT is that you still pay $3 for 10 old cards including 9 commons. The fact the rares are "old" does not alter the fact that the value of the pack far exceeds the difference in price, to the point where your claim of the price being "jacked up" is practically untenable.
FACT: $5 for a pack of the new set.
FACT: 2 new cards, 13 old cards.
FACT: I will more than likely not be able to sell the 13 old cards.
FACT: To me, the 13 old cards are worthless.
FACT: Therefore, I have paid $5 for 2 not-worthless cards.
FACT: 5 divided by 2 = 2.5. I KANZ DO MATHS!!!
FACT: for quite a bit less, you can buy whatever foil cards you want.
FACT: Cactus will still make money if you do that.
FACT: You won't have any duplicates.
FACT: Everyone wins.
FACT: That is a good business model.
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*Agrees with Tsavong*
Oh by the way, on those stupid surveys that you do on facebook or myspace or whatever.... They usually ask if you see the glass as half full or half empty... my response?
"It's totally empty because I spent so much time thinking about it, I got thirsty and drank whatever was in the glass."
And yes, if you buy them from Ken, it comes to... *gasp* $1.50 a card, same as FooF/RoA!
~Marti
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FACT: $5 for a pack of the new set.
FACT: 2 new cards, 13 old cards.
FACT: I will more than likely not be able to sell the 13 old cards.
FACT: To me, the 13 old cards are worthless.
FACT: Therefore, I have paid $5 for 2 not-worthless cards.
FACT: 5 divided by 2 = 2.5. I KANZ DO MATHS!!!
Fact: $3 for a pack of Patriarchs
Fact: 10 old cards
Fact: you apparently don't have any use for the 10 old cards
Fact: to you the ten old cards are worthless
Fact: Therefore, you have paid $3 for 0 not-worthless cards.
Fact: Division by zero disagrees with your math.
now whos framing it the way they choose?
Nobody, I'm only pointing out your double-talk.
if you were following closely...newer, non-huge players will flock to this set, because it has tremendous value for them...more bang for their buck. it is a rip-off to the more hardcore gathering, those which already have all those older cards. lets stay on track here, k?
I'm on track, all right. Because this secondary contradiction reveals your primary contradiction. You acknowledge that different groups receive this set differently, and you acknowledge that the current setup represents a winning value for the seller and the vast majority of players, and yet because it is not of any great benefit to YOU PERSONALLY, you see fit to criticize it as a steep price for a sub-par product, lacking creativity, pushing off cards, killing the market, a rip-off, and I'm sure I've missed some gems. Which incidentally slides further and further away from any capacity to defend such criticism as "constructive".
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*Agrees with Tsavong*
Oh by the way, on those stupid surveys that you do on facebook or myspace or whatever.... They usually ask if you see the glass as half full or half empty... my response?
"It's totally empty because I spent so much time thinking about it, I got thirsty and drank whatever was in the glass."
And yes, if you buy them from Ken, it comes to... *gasp* $1.50 a card, same as FooF/RoA!
~Marti
true...and probably the best option for most hardcore players out there. i have a couple friends that sell me boxes at close to wholesale though, so this point is moot for me anyways. thanks everyone for the lively discussion! :)
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if you buy them from Ken, it comes to... *gasp* $1.50 a card, same as FooF/RoA!
Ken sells sets of FooF for 69.50. That's only 70 cents per card.
Ken sells sets of RoA for $62.50. Again, 70 cents per card.
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I meant the initial price.
$15 for 10 new cards = $1.50/card
~Marti
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I've already expressed my views on the money issues with this set so I won't rehash it. The packaging...I kinda like maybe even a little better than the Tins. But I don't have the packaging in front of me at the moment, I can't speak on it, only its potential. It was once said, that at big tournaments Tins weren't really all that good, cause everyone will use them and it'd be hard to tell your decks apart. That wasn't the case, at least not at Mo State 2008. The packaging looks to be new and different and even though I have already ordered a full set from 3LG, I might pick up a pack or so just to see the new packaging.
Moving on to new cards vs. Reprints. Redemption strives to be a collectible card game based on the Bible. Have we had characters that were outside of the Bible? Yes. I don't think that there has been an enhancement, dominant, covenant, curse, site, forteress, lost soul or artifact that isn't inside of the Bible. I could be wrong on that, don't have all 2000 cards memorized. If Redemption hopes to continue to be a Biblically based game, we can't have a whole lot of new cards, unless there are new books in the Bible. Which I don't forsee happening. So yeah, there has to be some reprints. But I agree some of the reprints are like new cards, case and point, Image of Jealosy. There is been a discussion amoung the fans about maybe a set being done based off the Apyocrapha. Maybe Redemption could use some innovation or implied things, like creating a Spear for Saph, but both of those would take away from some of the accuracy of the Bible in the game. Just my thoughts on some of this.
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Ok, if people don't want to buy these packs, please don't because I want to buy a ton of them, and I need this set to stick around until I can afford to buy the ton of them that I want to buy.
I am absolutely 100% super excited about this set.... and I have almost all of the cards. UR = UR every time... If you happen to get 13 "worthless" cards, you can always feel free to send them my way. I'll even pay you $2.50 for your 13 "worthless" cards... that woudld bring the other 2 cards down to $1.25 (which is less than Ken's price)!
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I'm with Gil on this. I can't wait for this new set to come out! I also think it will be a great addition to Booster Draft. Me being a big Booster Draft player, that's usually the first thing I look for in a new set. Along with new mechanics and whatever other fun stuff Cactus decides to give us.
I also enjoy the reprints. Just sayin'.
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you acknowledge that the current setup represents a winning value for the seller and the vast majority of players, and yet because it is not of any great benefit to YOU PERSONALLY, you see fit to criticize it
I think this is one of the 2 keys to this whole discussion. The new set is good for Cactus, good for almost all players, and not quite so good for the mega-collectors. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few :)
The second key to all this is that Redemption is not just a business. The level of connectedness of the creator (Rob), the leading playtesters (Bryon, Schaef, etc.), the leading resellers (Ken, Bany, etc.), and the common player (everyone on the boards including me) really makes it more like a family. Or at least like the business of a friend. And I'm willing to support my friend's business in this kind of situation :)
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I like this set Idea and I think Rob is a genius for his buisness plan. From Robs perspective, Who cares is you get 13 worthless cards. If you want the Foils you will pay the price. Stop you whining and either vote with your pocketbook by not buying them or swallow your pride and buy them. Its his buisiness and he is out to make the most money out of the stock that he currently has.
But aside from the pure economics of it, This set meets the needs of several types of players. For those jsut getting into the game, they get a crack at some rares/UR th at they may not have had as much access too. (especially the warriors cards) For the collectors, WE NOW HAVE FOILS! YAY! The price (per card) is in line with FooF/RoA so he isnt gouging us on the collectible foils and if he moved the price point up to $5 who cares? Inflation happens.
seriously, all this whining is foolishness.
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swallow your pride and buy them
LOL, this is completely ignorant. There is no correlation between pride and buying anything related to Redemption.
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I well say this I like this bater than tins because:
1. its cheeper than both FooF and RoA
2. in FooF or an RoA tin you get 41 commons/uncommon and only 5 rare or ultra rare, in this set you get 11 rare and 2 foils. I have more to trade
3. Foils
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Just a thought for Sean and MasterK:
Sell the older cards for dirt cheap and they will sell faster. If you buy a whole case of 24, that would cost $120 retail. You get 13 older cards per pack, so that would be 312 cards. Roughly guessing that one third of those will have good value, you could sell them each for a buck and make $104.
If any of the other two-thirds are any good, that would just be gravy! ;D
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That's actually a really good idea... Nice! I think I'm gonna do that! ;D
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Even if you did not get 100 good cards, there are plenty of cards that would sell quickly for more than a buck. I'm sure DoN, GoYS, and the like will sell quickly even at $5. :o
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you acknowledge that the current setup represents a winning value for the seller and the vast majority of players, and yet because it is not of any great benefit to YOU PERSONALLY, you see fit to criticize it
I think this is one of the 2 keys to this whole discussion. The new set is good for Cactus, good for almost all players, and not quite so good for the mega-collectors. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few :)
Well yes, but the hardcore players keep redemption going. I for one like the idea of the box and foils, but I would rather have packs with 10 new cards.
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Well yes, but the hardcore players keep redemption going.
Actually, I think the hosts keep Redemption going. The hardcore players just take all the prizes. ;D
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How about everyone shuts up about the new set being "expensive" and "reprints". Wait until it comes out, if it is not as good as foof roa and priests than say something, but that is hard to live up to. No need to bash the guys that are making it to where this game is still played and in circualtion. At least give the guys keeping the game going the descency to give them "constructive" (which I think half of this was anything but that) criticism til the set comes out and you see the new cards. Buy them from Ken4Christ. Trade for them with all the rares you already have. I have a bunch of cards too and do not need the rares but after seeing all this whining and crying about the cost of obtaining the new set I am disappointed in the guys saying it. If you have so many cards, and if your signature says how many tournaments you won, then you can trade in your redemption cash for them.
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Also, be real. In this economy we're lucky to get a new set at all, and this model is perfect for ensuring that our beloved Cactus will weather this storm and come out the other side smelling like 250 card expansions!
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Also, be real. In this economy we're lucky to get a new set at all, and this model is perfect for ensuring that our beloved Cactus will weather this storm and come out the other side smelling like 250 card expansions!
I like that smell!
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How about everyone shuts up about the new set being "expensive" and "reprints". Wait until it comes out, if it is not as good as foof roa and priests than say something, but that is hard to live up to. No need to bash the guys that are making it to where this game is still played and in circualtion. At least give the guys keeping the game going the descency to give them "constructive" (which I think half of this was anything but that) criticism til the set comes out and you see the new cards. Buy them from Ken4Christ. Trade for them with all the rares you already have. I have a bunch of cards too and do not need the rares but after seeing all this whining and crying about the cost of obtaining the new set I am disappointed in the guys saying it. If you have so many cards, and if your signature says how many tournaments you won, then you can trade in your redemption cash for them.
First of no one needs to shut up, stop whining, or to stop crying. It is a matter of opinion and their opinion should be respected. From what I have read from this thread everyone is giving nothing but constructive critisism. The computer is an amazing contraption but not one to show the true demeanor of the one speaking throught it, or the lack there of.
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Quite a bit of the language here strays far from anything I would consider "constructive". A point that I stated previously.
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Speaking of construction, won't building booster draft decks from the new set be fun! ;D
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Speaking of construction, won't building booster draft decks from the new set be fun! ;D
YES!
Aghhhhh I can't wait to see how this affects Booster Draft! Though I do question if the back of the Foil cards would be detectable in a non-sleeved deck? For example, you can easily tell where there is a card from Priests in your deck when mixed with Apostles, Kings, etc... Hopefully this won't be true with Foils.
But I'm still UBER EXCITED.
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Though I do question if the back of the Foil cards would be detectable in a non-sleeved deck? For example, you can easily tell where there is a card from Priests in your deck when mixed with Apostles, Kings, etc... Hopefully this won't be true with Foils.
I had the same question earlier. I know that with Pokemon cards, the holos were easy to detect.
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At Nationals and Regionals that I've been to, sleeves were mandatory anyways.
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At Nationals and Regionals that I've been to, sleeves were mandatory anyways.
Hopefully there were some sleeves available for purchase at those tournaments then.
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RTSManiac brought up a great point. At nationals think of the cards that will be passed with this new set. Imagine opening up a pack and seeing 2 new cards, and 2 UR's! What are you gonna take?
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I bet the top booster draft decks will not have any of the new foil cards in them!
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I bet its multi-player and in multi player anything can happen.
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Anything ?!? :police:
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RTSManiac brought up a great point. At nationals think of the cards that will be passed with this new set. Imagine opening up a pack and seeing 2 new cards, and 2 UR's! What are you gonna take?
Haman's Plot.
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That's why you da mane Ben.
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yea, being a collector I would not like drafting with the new packs... not because it wouldn't be fun, but because if I open a pack with 2 foils and 7 rares/ultra rares, how the heck do I choose between those? Especially if by some chance I happened to get the pack with a DoN, GoYS, Wall, etc... How would you even choose between those?
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True. But if the guy next to you opens them he's guaranteed to pass you something sweet! ;D
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The way I figure it the first two cards gone from every pack will be the two foils, only because some of the cards really do have epic abilities, then becuase its a four player table only one UR will be gone from your pack by the time it gets back around to you.
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But they're shiny, so they are automatically ultra-rare! :o
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Amen Brother
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then becuase its a four player table only one UR will be gone from your pack by the time it gets back around to you.
lol. That is if it has any UR's.
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lol. That is if it has any UR's.
Based on experimental probability over the past few years, my opponent will have the URs, so this should happen frequently. My TeP packs will of course have no URs, so pity the dude next to me.
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i am going together w/ 3 friends 2 get 2 boxes probably...
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In all honesty, if I pull a DON, I will take that before any of the new cards. With comparing any other UR to taking a new card, I would just have to think of my four decks and figure out which card would help them the most.
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I'd pull a GoYS over a DoN. Destructions seem a bit easier to get than Guardians, for some reason.
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See, I've never pulled a DoN out of a pack, but I've pulled 2 GoYS. *shrug* idk.
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I've pulled 3 GOYS and only 1 DON. Probably cause I've pulled apostles packs over destruction at least 3 to 1. :-*
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I have opened so many patriarch packs that I probably do have multiples of all common/uncommon/rares and one of every UR and I've seen only one DON. Also, I prefer FA over GOYS (too bad that won't be in there :P).
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Sorry to burst your bubble boys, but do not expect every pack to be gold borders. This is from the cactus site.
Each card pack (actually a thin box) will contain two (2) of the new Thesaurus cards and thirteen (13) cards from the Warriors, Prophets, Apostles and Patriarchs sets. The approximate card mix will be:
2 Thesaurus foiled cards
4 to 5 Apostles (all rare/ultra rare)
4 to 5 Patriarchs (rare/ultra rare or uncommon)
1 Warriors (common, uncommon or rare/ultra rare)
3 Prophets (common, uncommon or rare
Just don't want everyone to say, yeah were getting all rares/ultras because they are including commons/uncommons. Either way they will be good packs.
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Notice, though, that there are four Apostles rares (or higher) in every pack. From what I know of the rare to ultra-rare ratio, that means there should be one Apostles UR in almost every pack.
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I'm quite excited for the potential of getting random stuff here... very much so :)
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Hey,
Notice, though, that there are four Apostles rares (or higher) in every pack. From what I know of the rare to ultra-rare ratio, that means there should be one Apostles UR in almost every pack.
Apostles had 16 Ultra Rares and 74 rares (37 different rares appearing twice) on the print sheet. Which would suggest 1 Ultra rare for every 5.5 cards which is slightly less than one per pack.
It might be hard deciding in booster draft between the Apostles Ultra Rare and the new card if the Ultra Rare is Guardian or Wall, but if the Ultra Rare is Casting Lots or Angry Mob I imagine it will be a much easier decision.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Guardian is useless in Booster Draft though...
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All I know is that you're gonna be almost guaranteed to place in multi... ;D
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Only three people can place.
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Yes, so if only 3 people sign up then you're golden.
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I just wanted to say that i'm also extremely excited about the new set, and also wanted to point something out to those complaining.
With previous packs, they cost $3 each, and containt 9 common/uncommon cards. After opening about half of a box you most likely had all the uncommons, and probably all the commons in double or triplicate. So after about have the packs were opened you were paying 3 dollars per pack to HOPEFULLY get 1 card you didn't already have.
With the new set, even if you have all the older cards in double or triplicate already, you're only paying 2.50 for each new card, some of which are likely to be VERY valuable. Take, for example, Image of jealousy. It's very likely to be in many top decks, simply because of it's usefulness.
I think the benefits outweigh the negatives in this scenario, and kudos to Cactus for keeping Redemption going strong! :D
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3) Can we buy the new thesaurus card boxes with Redemption Cash at Nationals?
If I have enough. I won't know that for another 4 to 5 weeks. If the job is finished in time to ship before the end of June, then I should have plenty of cards. However, if the job runs into any problems, I will need to airfreight some cards here. That is extremely expensive. I am willing to airfreight in cards to sell at Nationals and to provide for booster draft but, I am not paying to airfreight in cards to be purchased with Redemption Cash.
Do we have any update on this? Do we know yet if there will be "packs" available to buy at Nats?
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3) Can we buy the new thesaurus card boxes with Redemption Cash at Nationals?
If I have enough. I won't know that for another 4 to 5 weeks. If the job is finished in time to ship before the end of June, then I should have plenty of cards. However, if the job runs into any problems, I will need to airfreight some cards here. That is extremely expensive. I am willing to airfreight in cards to sell at Nationals and to provide for booster draft but, I am not paying to airfreight in cards to be purchased with Redemption Cash.
Do we have any update on this? Do we know yet if there will be "packs" available to buy at Nats?
Get behind me in line. I have several hundred dollars of Redemption cash to redeem first! :D
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3) Can we buy the new thesaurus card boxes with Redemption Cash at Nationals?
If I have enough. I won't know that for another 4 to 5 weeks. If the job is finished in time to ship before the end of June, then I should have plenty of cards. However, if the job runs into any problems, I will need to airfreight some cards here. That is extremely expensive. I am willing to airfreight in cards to sell at Nationals and to provide for booster draft but, I am not paying to airfreight in cards to be purchased with Redemption Cash.
Do we have any update on this? Do we know yet if there will be "packs" available to buy at Nats?
Get behind me in line. I have several hundred dollars of Redemption cash to redeem first! :D
Its people like you that force Rob to ration his supplies for the first few days...
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Nice quoting. :P
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Fixed. ;)
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I was away from the forum for awhile so I totally missed this discussion, but I just want to say that I'm super pumped for this set, even though I am one of those players who has almost every card and multiples of most of them. I really enjoyed RoA and FooF, but there was something about knowing exactly what you were getting that was a bit of a letdown. I typically did not open the packs because it was more cost effective for me to sell packs at tournaments I run, and then to use that money to buy the singles I needed. Because of this, I haven't opened booster packs in bunches in years--pretty much since the night I got my Priests order. I am definitely looking forward to breaking open a box of TexP and seeing all the goodies. I know there's gonna be a ton of cards I already have multiples of and will never use in a deck, though recently that list of cards is getting smaller. (Anyone else discovered what a great combo Golden Calf/Worshipper of False Gods/Deadly Snare is?) Maybe it's not as bad for me as I am a deck builder and not a collector so it won't bother me to trade my only copy of a TexP single for a different TexP if I need it for a deck.
Bottom line: new set is better than no set.
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(Anyone else discovered what a great combo Golden Calf/Worshipper of False Gods/Deadly Snare is?)
You got me on that one. G-Cow is of course great at canceling SAs of most commonly used heroes (except TGT). But what is so special about making you opponent discard 1 card from their hand and then playing a simple capture? There is so much protection from capture these days that it probably wouldn't work anyway, right?
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...blue tassels? phinehas? those are the two off the top of my head that are used commonly.
its not so much a combo per se, but just great synergy between all 3 cards. if they attack with a non-fbtn hero with big enough numbers, the enhancement is going off anyways.
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Its a great deal for what cards you get. However, it isn't anywhere close to cost effective for people who already have all the older cards.
learn to trade. or give cards away ;D also you can do some online trading. that reminds me i have likee 60 upcs lol
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Golden Calf negates all the FBTN Heroes (except Strong Angel) and protected Heroes (Phinehas et al). You block with Worshipper and they have to discard a card from hand. You play Deadly Snare and it cannot be interrupted since it was played on a character with "False" in the title. It's not mind boggling, but like MKC said it's great synergy for a Art/EC/EE trio.
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(Anyone else discovered what a great combo Golden Calf/Worshipper of False Gods/Deadly Snare is?)
I think in spite of nationals coming up he is just saying this so we all think he is using it at nationals...then comes out with a different defense. ;)
But you also have to have iniative and Deadly Snare is no interrupt and gray can't interrupt and play the next on a non-unique character.
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It's unlikely I will be at Nationals this year unfortunately... :-\
You are right about the initiative deal, but just having the option available to me restricts what my opponents can successfully do against me, which is a large part of being successful in T2.
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There is so much protection from capture these days that it probably wouldn't work anyway, right?
...blue tassels? phinehas? those are the two off the top of my head that are used commonly.
Lydia (NT) comes to mind as well as all those Z-temple priests (protection from fort). Neither of these would be touched by this combo and are both quite common.
But you are right that against a FBN offense, this would be great.
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The main point is that it is great when older (or overlooked) cards are able to be used in competitive decks. I first used this combo with False Prophets who has pretty decent initiative (4/4) so I could sometimes play a False Peace and then follow with a non-interruptable battle winner in Deadly Snare, which is huge in a T2 MP game.
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Bottom line: new set is better than no set.
Not if the next set is a large set that comes in packs ( think Apostles).
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Justin,
'tis a shame to hear you say nationals will probably not happen for you... where are your priorities? ;)
Kirk