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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: The Guardian on October 06, 2009, 02:37:57 AM
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Who's in your Top 5?
1. Colts
2. Vikings
3. Saints
4. Giants
5. Ravens
Some questions for discussion:
*Does anyone think the Broncos are for real?
What I think...
The Broncos have a good running game and a solid defense, which is a good combo, but I don't think they are more "for real" than the surprising Bengals who actually have some wins against quality teams and just got plain unlucky against Denver in Week 1.
*Rookie of the year: Sanchez or Harven?
What I think...
If the Jets return to the play-offs it would be hard to not give the nod to Sanchez, but Harven has shown enormous potential in so many ways that he's going to make this a close race either way.
*Who gets kicked out of Dallas first, Phillips or Romo?
What I think...
Why did I even post this question? I don't like Dallas and I don't care what happens to them...
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My Top 5
1. Ravens (Lost because of two phantom Roughing the passer penalites) These guys are scarry good and I think the AFC runs through Baltimore this year
2. Vikings (Favre's MNF should disspel all doubters about whether he still has it. the only question is can he do it w/o getting seriously hurt this year)
3. Colts (still weak against the run and the run offense is improving with Brown, but they have Manning so you have to respect that)
4. Saints (they were lower until they won their last two games without Brees throwing an touchdown. being able to win w/o Brees is bad news for the rest of us!)
5. Giants ( I think they are the team to beat in the NFC. Best all around, but Eli's injury drops them a spot or two)
*Does anyone think the Broncos are for real?
Umm, No. They are as "for real" as the Bengals. I dont think Kyle Orton can get it done against more powerful defenses and lets see their defensive Stats after they play the Pats, Steelers, baltimore, Colts ....)
*Rookie of the year: Sanchez or Harven?
If Derek Anderson and Massaquoi keep it up, I'm gonna have to go with Massaquoi. I think Sanchez is going to run into trouble in later games but I could be wrong.
*Who gets kicked out of Dallas first, Phillips or Romo?
Im with you, Who cares?!? I do know that Romo is not the second comming of Aikman though. That should be obvious by now.
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1. Lions
2. Browns
3. Buckaneers
4. Chiefs
5. Rams
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1. Lions
2. Browns
3. Buckaneers
4. Chiefs
5. Rams
the eternal optimist...
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1. Lions
2. Browns
3. Buckaneers
4. Chiefs
5. Rams
the eternal optimist...
Might as well add the Bills to that list :(
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Another question, Which undefeated team will be the last to lose?
Colts
Saints
Broncos
Vikings
Giants
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I'm not going to rank teams because I detest rankings. IMHO, it has ruined college football. But I will break down each NFL division:
AFC East
I think this division is shaping up after only 4 weeks. The Jets and Patriots will probably go down to the last week to decide the winner. Miami lost a really good QB in Pennington and Buffalo has T.O., so I think they both will struggle all season being up and down. Probable winner: Pats (unless the Jets get Shonne Greene in as their main RB ;) )
Final note: What happened with the Ravens will only hurt Brady, and all QBs, in the long run. If they're going to get flagged no matter how much they touch the QB, defenders will decide to just go ahead and smash them to the ground in a mangled mess.
AFC Central
The Bengals will make things interesting for awhile but in the end it will come down to the Ravens and Steelers again. What is really funny is that each team will probably win most of their games because of their potent passing attack. Who'da thunk?! Probable winner: Ravens (and only because the Steelers have a bullseye on them)
AFC South
The past few years there has been so much talk about the up-and-coming teams in this division finally overcoming the Colts. Not gonna happen! The Colts will win this thing handily. The Texans will fight for a wild card. Probable winner: Colts
AFC West
The Broncos have looked impressive so far and Moreno is the real deal. But although they like putting themselves in a hole early in the season, I think the Chargers will come back and pass the Broncos for the division. The other two teams are just awful. Probable winner: Chargers
AFC Wildcards: Jets, Steelers
NFC East
The Giants are quietly becoming a powerhouse that no one will be able to beat. If they beat the Saints in week 6, I really think they will be 15-0 when they travel to the Metrodome. And just like in 2007, even though they'll have their seeding wrapped up the Vikings will use all their starters the whole game. Probable winner: Giants
Final note: The rest of this division is becoming really bad. This year the mantle of best NFC division will pass to the Central.
NFC Central
Hey folks, this is the new class division in the NFC! This is very unfortunate for the Lions who are starting to turn their team around. Just when they start getting some quality players they'll still go 0-6 in the division. All the talk in the press this year has been and will be about Favre vs. Rodgers. But I'm really looking forward to Favre vs. Cutler! Probable winner: Vikings
NFC South
Last year the Saints players suffered a common malady when in the midst of greatness: they put it all on Brees shoulders. This year the big question mark, especially after a 2-0 start where Brees was brilliant, was whether the team would step it up when the other team shut Brees down. Well folks, I think we can safely say this is a TEAM to be reckoned! Falcons will try to keep up but get a wildcard in the end. Probable winner: Saints
NFC West
I sincerely think that most teams are struggling against the 49ers defense because they're afraid that Singletary will put on Vernon Davis' helmet and run onto the field if the 49ers start losing. Go ahead, look at the video coverage. Opposing teams' players steer clear of the 49ers sideline whenever they can. Singletary's sheer will and intense gaze will win the 49ers a couple of games they weren't meant to win. I'm tempering my excitement with the knowledge that their best player is hurt and the QB scares me. Probable winner: 49ers
NFC Wildcards: Falcons, Bears
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1. Colts
2. Giants
3. Saints
4. Ravens
5. Vikings
Percy Harvin is looking good so far, I like his chances.
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I like STAMP's picks, except for his weaksauce pick for the NFC Wildcard: The Bears??!? The Packers beat the Bears, and will do it again. :)
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I like STAMP's picks, except for his weaksauce pick for the NFC Wildcard: The Bears??!? The Packers beat the Bears, and will do it again. :)
The Packers won't be able to beat anybody if Rodgers gets injured from taking so many sacks...
The Packers have given new meaning to the term "Offensive" line...
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Yeah, last night was horrible in that regard. It doesn't help that their best lineman sat the entire game (injured). To compensate, they had to change the whole front line around. Then, mid-game, the replacement was hurt. When the replacement's replacement is a rookie, and that rookie has to defend against an all-pro defensive end, well, we saw that result last night.
Thankfully, the Packers front line should be back to healthy after this week's bye. And even if it takes them a while to get back to full health, the Pack faces two softer opponents in the two games after the bye. I fully expect to see the Packers at 4-2 three weeks from now.
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The Packers won't be able to beat the Bears in Chicago unless Cutler throws to the wrong team again all game. That doesn't seem very likely.
Stamps picks are pretty much right on. Someone's been paying attention to the NFL this year. ;)
I'm not a Vikings fan by any stretch of the imagination but they have a really good team this year and they're fun to watch. I just enjoy seeing good football. They're my pick for the last undefeated team.
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1. Packers (Yeah... they're 2-2... and I might be kind of biased because I'm a Packer fan... okay yeah, but still)
2. Vikings (They have the best RB in the league, the #1 running defense, and I think 3rd overall defense, one of the top QBs... I'm not sure they can be stopped)
3. Saints (Drew Brees, is, imo the best QB in the league. Their running game has been decent between Bell, Bush and Thomas, so I think they'll do well)
4. Colts (With The Cheriff on their team, you can never count them out. He reminds me of Brett Favre, he takes risks and wins when you need him to)
5. Broncos (I'm not sure on this... but I have a hunch that they'll go longer then everyone thinks... with a defense that has allowes (31?) Points in 4 games... it's hard not to win, just score once or twice)
Yeah.... I'm always down with rooting for underdogs. Hence Packers and Broncos. Also, These are not in order.
Viking are going to go the longest without being defeated. Their team is... astonishing.
Stamp's picks I pretty much agree with... except the Chargers.
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1. Packers (Yeah... they're 2-2... and I might be kind of biased because I'm a Packer fan... okay yeah, but still)
2. Vikings (They have the best RB in the league, the #1 running defense, and I think 3rd overall defense, one of the top QBs... I'm not sure they can be stopped)
3. Saints (Drew Brees, is, imo the best QB in the league. They're running game has been decent between Bell, Bush and Thomas, so I think they'll do well)
4. Colts (With The Cheriff on their team, you can never count them out. He reminds me of Brett Favre, he takes risks and wins when you need him to)
5. Broncos (I'm not sure on this... but I have a hunch that they'll go longer then everyone thinks... with a defense that has allowes (31?) Points in 4 games... it's hard not to win, just score once or twice)
Yeah.... I'm always down with rooting for underdogs. Hence Packers and Broncos. Also, These are not in order.
Viking are going to go the longest without being defeated. They're team is... astonishing.
Stamp's picks I pretty much agree with... except the Chargers.
I sense a lack of my Avatar in your post.
Also, it's their, not they're... I couldn't help but notice since you did it twice. :D
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Haha, fixed. And yeah... your Ravens can't beat the Vikings, sorry. ;)
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1. Colts
2. Vikings
3. Ravens
4. Saints
5. Broncos
I'm just going to casually stay away from any talk of the Cowboys...
...stupid Romo...
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I agree that the Vikings are great (and I'd love them still even if they weren't). But it will be interesting to see if we can handle a good team like the Ravens in two weeks. Monday's game was fun to watch, but our secondary seriously needs to step up.
Also, I agree that Peyton and the Colts comprise the best team in the league right now.
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Okay, folks, re-do your rankings. 49ers just signed Crabtree!
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Both manning brothers have been playing great, but Peyton is a legend and looking like he might be the first person to win 4 MVP awards.
1. Colts "Career highs through 4 games, when you say career highs and your talking about P Manning thats incredible.
2. Giants
3. Saints-"where is Drew Brees the last 2 games?"
4. Eagles "not much playing time but looking very good"
5. vikings "Farve is old will start messing up week 12
6. Jets " if they beat NO they would be #3 maybe 2."
7. Pats
8. Ravens "if they beat the pats their in the top 5."
9. Broncos "yikes thatz a nice D, but Kyle Orton?"
10.49ers, Steelers, Falcons, Bengals,- I couldn't decide
Jamarcus Russell- 6 years $68 million, with $31.5 million guaranteed
1 TD 4 INT YDS 504 RTG 42.4
Lightningninja please don't insult peyton manning by calling him Brett farvish.
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Okay, folks, re-do your rankings. 49ers just signed Crabtree!
Crabtree has a lot of catching up to do before he can even think about surpassing Harven as this year's top rookie receiver.
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Okay, folks, re-do your rankings. 49ers just signed Crabtree!
Crabtree has a lot of catching up to do before he can even think about surpassing Harven as this year's top rookie receiver.
Very true. But if he does surpass Harvin, that would be Rice-esque considering Harvin has a legend throwing to him while Crabtree has a journeyman QB. ;)
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Lightningninja please don't insult peyton manning by calling him Brett Favreish.
Please don't insult Brett Favre by misspelling his name. Fixed. ;)
And you're right... the quarterback who has the most TDs, most TDs over eighty yards, has beaten every NFL team, has the most consecutive starts, has the most Yards, Most regular-season wins, Most completions. You're right, Peyton Manning wouldn't like to be compared to that legend. :D
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Jamarcus Russell- 6 years $68 million, with $31.5 million guaranteed
1 TD 4 INT YDS 504 RTG 42.4
Yeah, um this is ridiculous.
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Peyton Manning is 10x the quarterback Brett Favre is, was, or ever will be.
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Peyton Manning is 10x the quarterback Brett Favre is, was, or ever will be.
A Colts-Vikings Super Bowl would be a pretty good way to settle that... ;D
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Peyton Manning is 10x the quarterback Brett Favre is, was, or ever will be.
What?!
Just this season alone Brett Favre has as many TDs and INTs as Peyton Manning, and he's not as good as he used to be.
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Manning: 342 TDs (1.9 p/g), 168 INTs (0.93 p/g) in 180 games (averaging 260.9 yds/game) (as of prior to this week)
Favre: 472 TDs (1.7 p/g), 311 INTs (1.12 p/g) in 277 games (averaging 238.1 yds/game) (as of prior to this week)
The empirical data does not lie, and this is excluding all comparisons of their field general skills, where even the greatest Favre apologist has to concede to Mannning.
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Freaking penalties are KILLING the Ravens. >:(
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Freaking penalties are KILLING the Ravens. >:(
It's ok. If anyone knows how to deal with penalties, it's upper tier men of integrity like Ray Lewis.
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Manning: 342 TDs (1.9 p/g), 168 INTs (0.93 p/g) in 180 games (averaging 260.9 yds/game) (as of prior to this week)
Favre: 472 TDs (1.7 p/g), 311 INTs (1.12 p/g) in 277 games (averaging 238.1 yds/game) (as of prior to this week)
The empirical data does not lie, and this is excluding all comparisons of their field general skills, where even the greatest Favre apologist has to concede to Mannning.
No, it doesn't lie... but it doesn't say it all, either. Brett Favre, until this year, has never had a good defensive line. He's never had a good RB (arguably Ahman Green but he fumbled too much), and never had a hall of fame, or even great, reciever. He makes his recievers look great though.
You also have to consider defenses, how much time they have with the ball, and other things. You can't throw down some statistics, saying that Manning is slightly better, and act like it's a fact that Manning is better. That's simply not true.
And I'm not sure what you mean by field general skills. If you mean how Manning calls amazing audibles and adjustments, okay, I'll give you that. I love Manning for that.
But Brett Favre is also the greatest comeback quarterback of all time. Manning never would have made that pass in game 3. Brett Favre knows how to win, and pull a team together with :05 left in the fourth quarter. No statistic can match that.
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http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3392 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3392)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3401 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3401)
Read this for why 4th quarter comebacks isn't that great of a stat. This also ignores what Favre probably did to get his team in the hole (throwing his Interceptions, making bad throwing decisions early in teh game, etc).
You say Favre never had a good running back. It's arguable that Dan Marino never had a running back ever. Only one time did he have a running back rush for a 1000 yards while he was the quarterback. By comparison, Favre has had 10 running backs reach the 1000 yard mark, and it will be 11 after this year when AP inevitably breaks the barrier. Manning has had 7 thus far, and might make 8 this year, it remains to be seen. Favre has worked with the best backs and his averages still don't look as good.
Favre has also had comparable wide receivers to work with, with the exception of Harrison. Freeman, Franks, Sharpe, Driver, the early years of Jennings, and Green are all comparable to the receivers Peyton has been giving the ball to.
Manning is the single best defensive scheme reader to ever the game. You agree, so I'll leave it at that.
Favre isn't the greatest comeback QB of all time, even if that were a measureable stat. Marino and Elway have him beat, no matter how you measure it.
And Manning would have never made the pass in game 3 because he'd never get in that situation.
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Brett Favre knows how to win, and pull a team together with :05 left in the fourth quarter. No statistic can match that.
What and Manning doesn't? We are watching probably the greatest two minute drill QB of all time. Manning does more, with less, and makes fewer mistakes than Favre.
Dont get me wrong, I love Favre and have TONS of respect for him, but barring a serious injury, ALL of Favres Records will belong to Peyton.
True, Manning Had Harrison and still has Reggie Wayne, but this years Run is with Great Wide recievers such as Austin Collie and Pierrr Garcon. Two Rookies who get to play because a second year player (Gonzalez) is out for several games. Manning makes recievers look good and can work with anyone who has the skill to play in the NFL. He doesnt need a platoon of Randy Moss's to win games.
BTW, I have to re-do my list given todays games:
1. Colts - Yeah, I have to say they are for real. They will win their division and probably a first round bye with home field advantage.
2. Giants -A solid game today..but they were playing the raiders...
3. Vikings - Favre could easily lead this team to a superbowl.
4. Saints - Pretty good, but lets see who comes out of the Superdome unbeaten next week, the Giants or Saints...I am betting it will be the Giants.
5. Denver - That was a signature win against the Patriots today. They are starting to make me believe in the value of Wild horses.
Honorable mention -
Watch out for the Bengals. Their last second heroics against Baltimore was HUGE. couple that with a freak loss to denver and a signature win vs. the steelers and you have to admit that they are doing something good in Cincinnati.
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This also ignores what Favre probably did to get his team in the hole (throwing his Interceptions, making bad throwing decisions early in teh game, etc).
I'll refer to above when crustpope says "Manning will break all of his records." I know, and that includes interceptions. Why do you think that the Colts have only one 1 super bowl with Peyton Manning? Because he throws interceptions, just like Favre. This is not a one-sided argument.
You say Favre never had a good running back...
Yep. A thousand yards doesn't make a great running back. Edgerrin James was one of the top backs when he first played from about 200-2003.
Favre has also had comparable wide receivers to work with, with the exception of Harrison. Freeman, Franks, Sharpe, Driver, the early years of Jennings, and Green are all comparable to the receivers Peyton has been giving the ball to.
Yep, and you forgot Brooks. Now look at Greg Jennings. Isn't he great. Oh wait... that couldn't be because he doesn't have Favre... And Driver doesn't have as good of stats... hm... I wonder why. All of these players were GREAT because Brett Favre is GREAT.
Favre isn't the greatest comeback QB of all time, even if that were a measureable stat. Marino and Elway have him beat, no matter how you measure it.
I'm not sure how you can say this when the links that YOU provided say that Favre is above Marino. :scratch: Okay... I'll put Elway above him. He'll still be better than Peyton Manning is.
And Manning would have never made the pass in game 3 because he'd never get in that situation.
Wait.... you're really saying that Manning has never won/lost a game in the last seconds by a TD? Seriously? Everyone gets in those situation, to deny that is ridiculous. But Brett Favre gets out of them.
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BTW, I have to re-do my list given todays games:
1. Colts - Yeah, I have to say they are for real. They will win their division and probably a first round bye with home field advantage.
2. Giants -A solid game today..but they were playing the raiders...
3. Vikings - Favre could easily lead this team to a superbowl.
4. Saints - Pretty good, but lets see who comes out of the Superdome unbeaten next week, the Giants or Saints...I am betting it will be the Giants.
5. Denver - That was a signature win against the Patriots today. They are starting to make me believe in the value of Wild horses.
Honorable mention -
Watch out for the Bengals. Their last second heroics against Baltimore was HUGE. couple that with a freak loss to denver and a signature win vs. the steelers and you have to admit that they are doing something good in Cincinnati.
Colts are definitely number 1. They do have a slightly suspect defense however...even though they beat Miami, they needed a legendary performance by Peyton to do it because their defense couldnt get Miami off the field...
The Giants and Vikings both beat up on some rebuilding teams this week so I think it's a toss up for #2 and 3. The Vikings did steal one against San Fran, but they have a solid win against Green Bay and the Giants have had a pretty easy schedule thus far.
Saints defense has been showing up, can they maintain that is the question.
I agree Denver is looking better and in that weak division, they just about have a play-off spot wrapped up... ::)
I definitely agree about the Bengals--wins against Green Bay (at GB), Pittsburgh and Baltimore (at Bal) tell me this team is for real.
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Another topic for discussion:
There are 9 undefeated/winless teams left. Who among them will be the last to keep their perfect/imperfect season going?
The Haves
Colts
Broncos
Vikings
Giants
Saints
The Have Nots...
Chiefs
Titans
Buccaneers
Rams
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Interestingly enough, Week 1 I remember commenting on the Broncos/Bengals game. The score was 7-6 with a few minutes to go in the fourth quarter. I said something to the effect of: "Boy, that's a low scoring game. But given the two teams that are playing, I don't think it has much to do with great defenses, they're both just terrible."
Boy was I wrong.
Anyway, I'd have to offhand say the Giants will go undefeated the longest, though I haven't really looked at the upcoming schedules of all the teams. I'd like to say the Vikings of course, but
A) You might not believe in jinxes, but I'm a Vikings fan...I was there in 1998 when the commentators said that Gary Anderson hadn't missed a field goal all season, and 42 yards should be no problem...
B) While the Vikings have looked really good most of the time in most of their games, there have been a lot of miscues on their parts that I teams better than who we've played can take advantage of. If the Rams weren't so ridiculously awful yesterday, it would have been a much closer game. Two goal-to-go fumbles and one interception? They handed us the game.
That said, I sure wouldn't mind seeing the Vikes go undefeated the longest. But we've got three games left against two very good division rivals in GB and Chicago, so we'll see how it goes.
From what I saw yesterday, the Rams could easily be this year's version of Detroit. I would say they will definitely go the longest without a win, and could possibly go 0-16.
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It's looking more and more like a Manning-Manning Super Bowl.
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This also ignores what Favre probably did to get his team in the hole (throwing his Interceptions, making bad throwing decisions early in teh game, etc).
I'll refer to above when crustpope says "Manning will break all of his records." I know, and that includes interceptions. Why do you think that the Colts have only one 1 super bowl with Peyton Manning? Because he throws interceptions, just like Favre. This is not a one-sided argument.
Are you Serious? Peyton would have to play until he was 60 in order to break Favres interception record. please check your stats before you post because this makes you sound like an idiot. Just to help you out. here are the interceptions for the last 5 seasons for both Mannign and Favre.
Manning Favre
2009 4 2
2008 12 22 *
2007 14 15
2006 9 18 *
2005 10 29 *
2004 10 17
2003 10 21
The starred years are the years that Favre threw either the same ammount or MORE interceptions than touchdowns. that is something that Peyton Manning has done only once...His rookie year when he threw 26 TD's and 28 INT's..
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I have nothing but respect for the entire Manning family, and for Favre as well. Archie, Peyton, and Eli, as well as Brett, are all amazingly good in their own ways. They have style, and they have their own unique style. Sure, Brett plays a scrappy game, but it is FUN to watch him play. He plays for fun, like a big kid. And his arm is amazing. Sure, he'll toss some balls that a more conservative quarterback would hold, but sometimes those tosses win games that would otherwise have been lost. He isn't afraid to take the chance.
As for the prediction that Payton will surpass ALL of Favre's records (all caps are an exact quote)... I seriously doubt it. I doubt he'll throw as many interceptions, start as many consecutive games, start as many games, win as many games in his 40s, beat as many different teams (all of them). He will likely beat many of his records, but most certainly not ALL of them. :)
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Are you Serious? Peyton would have to play until he was 60 in order to break Favres interception record. please check your stats before you post because this makes you sound like an idiot. Just to help you out. here are the interceptions for the last 5 seasons for both Mannign and Favre.
Chill out. No one's an idiot.
We'll see if Peyton can play as long as Favre in order to break those records. If Peyton Manning gets hurt... he'll sit out. It could be something like Brady. Brady will never be as good as he was because of that injury all last year. This is evident in the Pat's 3-2 record.
Brett Favre gets a cast on a leg because of an injury, so he puts a cast on the other leg, so the defenders don't know which leg to hit, and then goes on the field. No other quarterback can do that. Which means that Favre is reliable.
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First of all, I said you SOUND like an idiot. I did not call you an idiot. When you say things like that without checking the facts then you leave yourself open to comments like that. That is on par to saying something like "Richard Nixon was the most honest president ever." It is not just factually inaccurate, it is ridiculous.
Favre is a gunslinger. He takes risks. Because of that he makes fantastic plays and produces Miracles. He also throws interceptions that can get his teams into trouble. For every last second heroic drive that Favre has produced, I can point to a game that they could have won if he had just taken a sack or thrown the ball away instead of throwing an interception. Favre plays a great game but he is also a risk taker that sometimes takes unessesary risks.
I like Favre. He would be in my top 5 QB's of all time. I like how he plays and the energy that he brings to the game, but comparing his playing style to anyone else is not helpful because it is like comparing apples to squirrels. Favre is not a scrambler like Elway, neither is he a pure pocket passer like Marino. Their styles are different and they produce different results. You seem to be a Favre apologist who can see no wrong in Favre. That is unfortunate because unrealistic and you are not seeing the whole picture.
If you fell I have offended you then I apologize. I never meant to offend you, I simply meant to clarify your inaccuracies.
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Oh I don't see no wrong in Favre. I hate how many interceptions he throws. I also never even said that he's the best of all time. I just think he's better than Manning.
And I'm not sure how you can say that Favre has just as many interception/bad choices games as he does great miracle games. There's a reason he has the most wins of any quarterback ever. He wins a lot more games that he loses, so I'd say he has a lot more great games.
No, not offended. :)
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There are 9 undefeated/winless teams left. Who among them will be the last to keep their perfect/imperfect season going?
The Haves
Colts
Broncos
Vikings
Giants
Saints
The Have Nots...
Chiefs
Titans
Buccaneers
Rams
And I have to update my Rankings!
1. Colts
2. Saints (Oh dear, oh dear, oh Dear, My what a show on Sunday)
3. Broncos (we will see what tonight brings. A tough division game @ San Diego tonight!)
4. Vikings (dropped a bit due to the Sunday Scare)
5. Patriots
ALso Rans:
Giants (oh how the mighty have fallen)
Bengals ( Forget what I said last week... my Bad)
Green bay, Jets, Philadelphia, Atlanta.. decidedly ..Meh
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In deference to my fellow brothers (& sisters) who are Vikings fans, I do hope they finally win the big one one of these days. This year? Maybe. But I don't want you to get your hopes up too high. You had to have a Hail Mary and a missed field goal to win two HOME games. Just keep things in perspective. :)
After all, the last time the Broncos and Vikings were this good together was in '98, and we all remember what happened then. Hmmm, at least I think I remember: Vikes were led by a free agent QB that used to be an all-pro for a team that wore green uniforms...am I right?!?
:laugh:
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Hmmm, at least I think I remember: Vikes were led by a free agent QB that used to be an all-pro for a team that wore green uniforms...am I right?!?
Yes, yes, believe me--many people in Minnesota are looking to compare this team with 98's team. Besides the things you mentioned, we also have an explosive rookie WR who dropped in the draft due to character concerns.
However, our defense is much better, our offense is much more balanced and because of some of the close calls we've had, I don't think anyone on the team is going to get complacent.
Also, Favre's pass against the 49ers was not a Hail Mary. He saw the receiver and threw a frozen rope to him. A Hail Mary is a "throw it up for grabs in a crowd" pass.
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1. Colts
2. Saints
3. Vikings
4. Giants
5. Broncos~pending their game against SD tonight.
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your team got lucky against the Ravens, justin
and i suggest switching colts spot on your list for saints cause i think the saints will make it to the superbowl
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your team got lucky against the Ravens, justin
It's really kind of funny how the Vikings played great and the Ravens played awful for 3 quarters, then the Ravens have a great 4th quarter but come up a little short, and people say "the Vikings got lucky."
I'd be the first to admit the Vikings defense was bad in the 4th quarter...kinda like how the Ravens defense was bad in the 1st quarter...
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Also, Favre's pass against the 49ers was not a Hail Mary. He saw the receiver and threw a frozen rope to him. A Hail Mary is a "throw it up for grabs in a crowd" pass.
:rollin:
So...
If thrown by someone named Favre, Montana, Marino, Brady, etc., it's called a planned, frozen rope?!?
If thrown by someone named Tavaris, Alex Smith, Cleo Lemon, Tony Eason, etc., it's called a Hail Mary?!?
;)
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I guess you just have a different definition of a Hail Mary pass, but Favre saw the receiver and threw it to the exact spot where the receiver was going.
If thrown by someone named Favre, Montana, Marino, Brady, etc., it's called a planned, frozen rope?!?
If thrown by someone named Tavaris, Alex Smith, Cleo Lemon, Tony Eason, etc., it's called a Hail Mary?!?
I'm not sure where you got this from, but it doesn't matter. I would say the same thing if Shaun Hill makes that play...we just know he won't because he's not that good... ::)
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Just a word of warning to Vikings fans:
Jets fans were just as excited last year at this time as you are now. Favre has yet to prove he can go the distance at his age. He may yet lead this team to the SuperBowl, which is fine by me since I am an AFC guy. But I thought last year's second half should be kept in mind before the Viking accolades are etched in stone and on the side of your personal vehicles. ;D
FWIW, Doug Flutie's memorable pass for Boston College was a frozen rope. ;)
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I guess you just have a different definition of a Hail Mary pass, but Favre saw the receiver and threw it to the exact spot where the receiver was going.
If thrown by someone named Favre, Montana, Marino, Brady, etc., it's called a planned, frozen rope?!?
If thrown by someone named Tavaris, Alex Smith, Cleo Lemon, Tony Eason, etc., it's called a Hail Mary?!?
I'm not sure where you got this from, but it doesn't matter. I would say the same thing if Shaun Hill makes that play...we just know he won't because he's not that good... ::)
What I was getting at is that when good QB's throw into triple-coverage, generally football analysts will say it is foolish but follow that with a "that's why so-and-so is a great QB." When a bad QB does it, he's just throwing up a prayer. ;)
And speaking of bad QBs, Shaun Hill doesn't even deserve to carry the cleats of Jeff Garcia, let alone Young or even Montana. So there is something we agree on. :)
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What I was getting at is that when good QB's throw into triple-coverage, generally football analysts will say it is foolish but follow that with a "that's why so-and-so is a great QB." When a bad QB does it, he's just throwing up a prayer. ;)
Just went back and watched this play again. The pass was a "whopping" 32 yards downfield, and you see Favre set two or three times before unleashing the ball. Lewis had single coverage coming across the back of the end zone; the other DB was out of the play and no one else was close enough to even make a play on the ball. Last-second post plays are low-percentage but not always desperation heaves. This was a well-thrown ball that hit a receiver in stride and by no means was he triple-covered.
Not really invested in this emotionally one way or the other, just looking at what's on the field on that particular day, and it's just Favre playing backyard ball the way he's done his whole life. You go out ten yards and break for the sideline, you do a buttonhook at the tree, and you cut across the back of the end zone.
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Gee, thanks. I AM emotionally invested. Have been for 14 years. Favre has broken every 49er fan's heart. So when you said you went back to watch it again I decided it was time I did, too. Actually I ended up watching it about two dozen times. (The doctor says I must get by the denial stage.) You're right. It's not triple-coverage. It ended up being a very poor double-coverage as a result of playing a two-deep zone. I think I originally thought it was triple-coverage because I saw three gold uniforms. But one was just an Event Staff employee, who by the way had Lewis covered better than the 49ers.
I'm a 49er fan so I will forever say Favre was lucky on that play. I don't care how good he is and if he is a Hall of Famer. The throw was good. I will give you that. But the overall play was lucky. Justin Smith was an inch away from grabbing Favre's jersey. Another lineman almost sacked him before the throw. And Lewis was an inch from going out of bounds....
Crud. I really need something to get me back in a good mood.
Oh yeah. 49ers are 5-0 in Super Bowls. Vikings are 0-4. I'm starting to feel better! :)
And Mary chose Ted instead of Favre. WOO HOO! I feel great, now!!
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Given last nights game, I am torn as to where to put the broncos, but I will continue to leave them at 3. I still think that they can be beaten, especially by the Colts or the Saints because their Offense is a little shakey and aside from two spectacular special teams plays, they would have lost, but their defense is FOR REAL. they are lights out in the second half.
1. Colts
2. Saints (Oh dear, oh dear, oh Dear, My what a show on Sunday)
3. Broncos (we will see what tonight brings. A tough division game @ San Diego tonight!)
4. Vikings (dropped a bit due to the Sunday Scare)
5. Patriots
I am SOOOOOOO looking forward to week 10 Colts and Patriots @ Lucas Oil Stadium. That will be FUN and a Sunday night game. After that, assuming that the Colts and the Broncos continue on their tear, it will all come to a head in week 14. That one is 1:00 on CBS.
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But the overall play was lucky. Justin Smith was an inch away from grabbing Favre's jersey. Another lineman almost sacked him before the throw. And Lewis was an inch from going out of bounds....
... so a Hail Mary pass is defined not by the distance or whether it's lobbed into a crowd or the coverage, but whether he's almost sacked?
If that's the case, Derek Anderson threw like 25 Hail Mary passes the other day. ;)
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Just a word of warning to Vikings fans:
Jets fans were just as excited last year at this time as you are now. Favre has yet to prove he can go the distance at his age. He may yet lead this team to the SuperBowl, which is fine by me since I am an AFC guy. But I thought last year's second half should be kept in mind before the Viking accolades are etched in stone and on the side of your personal vehicles. ;D
Yeah, the Vikings can have September and October. November 1 is the day the Viking ship springs a major leak. :)
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... so a Hail Mary pass is defined not by the distance or whether it's lobbed into a crowd or the coverage, but whether he's almost sacked?
If that's the case, Derek Anderson threw like 25 Hail Mary passes the other day. ;)
:laugh:
Yeah, and the corollary is that QBs like Dave Krieg had many Hail Mary passes that were thwarted. ;)
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Yeah, the Vikings can have September and October. November 1 is the day the Viking ship springs a major leak.
Playing at Pitt worries me a lot more than playing at GB...
Did you hear the Packers offensive line is going as ghosts for Halloween? Costumes won't be too difficult since anyone can run through them already...
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I guess I'll chime in with the unbiased (I don't have a team) and limited knowledge (don't have miles of statistics to cloud my judgment) opinion.
First: I don't know how, what seems like, all of you guys are still pick Colts at #1 (well, I know why Matt is) when it is clear that the Saints are. They are thwomping both the good and bad teams by double digits. Drew Brees is single-handledly winning Fantasy games. So here is my realistic, unbiased lineup:
1. Saints
2. Colts
3a. Vikings (simply because the offense is better than Denver, but I wouldn't mind seeing them play.)
3b. Denver
5. Florida Gators ( :laugh: )
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But one was just an Event Staff employee, who by the way had Lewis covered better than the 49ers.
I ended up leaned over laughing when I read this part. Well played sir.
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Anyone know where I can watch that replay from a different angle? The ones on Youtube are all the same--I'd like to see Lewis running the route.
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I told you guys that Broncos were legit! :D :D :D
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There are
9 6 undefeated/winless teams left. Who among them will be the last to keep their perfect/imperfect season going?
The Haves
Colts
Broncos
Vikings
Giants
Saints
The Have Nots...
Chiefs
Titans
Buccaneers
Rams
Titans still have to play and I havent seen how the saints are doing
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Saints
Look like they're going to be beaten by the dolphins.
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How do you beat the Giants one week and then go down big to the dolphins the next?
PARITY!!!
Except that the Fins blew it! Thanks alot Miami.
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Peterson completely emasculated unfortunate Steelers Corner William Gay. Wow.
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1. Colts
2. Broncos
3. Patriots
4. Saints
5. Steelers
6. Vikings
7. Giants
8. Bengals
9. Texans
10. Packers
That is how I see them. True The Saints are still undefeated, but they should have handeled Miami much better than that. Plus I think an easy argument can be made that the Patriots of the first three games are not the Patriots that have been playing since the first 4 weeks. It is as if Brady woke up in the last two games.
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I disagree about the Patriots.
Tom Brady "woke up" the past two games? They played the Titans and the Bucs, two teams that are basically a joke. The Bucs are decent, but unitl Brady does that well against a real team, I wouldn't put the Patriots in the Top 5.
1. Colts
2. Broncos
3. Vikings
4. Steelers
5. Saints
6. Giants
7. Patriots
8. Packers
9. Bengals
10. Texans
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1. Vikings
2. Saints
3. Broncos
4. Colts
5. Packers
6. Bengals
7. Steelers
8. Giants
9. Texans
10. Packers
Yes, I said packers twice, cause I couldn't think of anyone for tenth... not sure about that slot. I don't think the Vikings loss makes a big impact on my rankings; they played a great game and made one costly mistake that costed them the game.
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Not to mention awful reffing.
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Vikings outplayed the Steelers and the Steelers got lucky. I grant that the Steelers made a great defensive play on the fumble return but it should have never happened because that tripping call was ridiculous.
The INT return was just bad luck, the ball fell in the guys arms and all our receivers were downfield blocking for the screen pass.
I'm upset, but I'm not worried.
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As a Patriots fan, let me just say that you will be much happier with a one-loss regular season and Super Bowl victory, rather than a "perfect" regular season and Super Bowl loss. Get that one loss out in the regular season. ;)
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Vikings outplayed the Steelers
I'm not so sure about that.
Steelers held Peterson to 69 Yards rushing and the team to 89 yards rushing (Pitt had 106 yards rushing)
Favre had more total yards passing but he threw no TD's and his rating was a pedestrian 76.8 (Big Ben's was 87.8 with one TD)
Minnesota had VASTLY more reciving yards, but no TD's
They both had a turnover ( im not counting the bobbled interception)
But here is the telling stat
Pittsburg had 4 sacks, 7 passes deflected, 6 quarterback hits 6 Tackles for Losses and 2 TD's off of turnovers on Defense
Minnesota had 3 Sacks 7 PD, 3 qB hits and 7 tackels for loss and 0 points off of defense
True, 7 of those points were off of the bobbled interception that shouldnt have been because Minn should have scored the TD instead of having it called back due to a phantom tripping call.
It seems to me that both teams played really well and that no one team outplayed another. Minnesota just got beat by a tough defense and some bad calls, that is all.
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Yeah he had 69 RUSHING yards... cause Peterson was too busy trucking down the secondary and scoring for over 60 recieving yards. He wasn't exactly "stopped."
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He was stopped. That's the only reason he has recieving yards. They just realized they weren't getting anything by handing it off, so they decided to start throwing to their best players instead.
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If a running back gets over 120 yards he wasn't stopped, no matter where he got those yards.
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If a running back gets over 120 yards he wasn't stopped, no matter where he got those yards.
If anyone can hold Peterson to under 100 Yard Rushing then they effectively "STOPPED" the Rushing game. Sure he had 120 total yards, but the Vikes were one dimensional and more easy to defend because the Steelers had bottled up the Run. That was great defense
And BTW. 60 yards receiving is nothing to write home about. That amounts to a very pedestrian recieving day.
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But when you add in the 69 yards rushing with the 60 yards received you have something to write mom about.
Dear Mom,
How are you? I am doing well. The run was stopped today, I only got 69 rushing yards. *tear* However that nice man Mr. Favre tossed me the ball a few times to make up for it, I got 60 yards receiving today! Hope all is well, give my love to the rest of the family!
Love,
A.P.
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A.P. is a straight beast. Just ask Mr. Gay after he took that hit sunday.
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...Just ask Mr. Gay ...
Is that the one that LJ was referring to? :P
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I also think Al Harris is still recovering from that hit last year... :D
I agree with CMO Falcon. Was it Peterson's best day? No. Was it more yards than he averages a game? Yep. Was it more receiving yards that he usually gets? Yep.
Is he gonna make it up against the Packers? Sadly, yep.
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Vikings held the leading passer in the NFL to 175 yards--not to mention that 40 of those were on one pass that was nearly deflected by two players.
They held the leading receiver in the NFL to 1 catch for 3 yards.
They did this without their top cornerback.
Is there anyone who really thinks Pitt was going to stop the Vikings on that last drive if not for the lucky bounce they got?
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I thought Andre Johnson and Marvin Harrison were above him... Oh well. I should go to some more research.
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Or the drive before that, for that matter? before the bogus tripping call and subsequent TD return?
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Vikings held the leading passer in the NFL to 175 yards--not to mention that 40 of those were on one pass that was nearly deflected by two players.
Rothlesberger as the leading passer? Really? What alternative universe did I just step into? What is your benchmark? Passer Rating? Total Yards? Touchdowns? I don't think he owns any of those top marks at the moment or during that game...
They held the leading receiver in the NFL to 1 catch for 3 yards.
Yeah that one hurt me in fantasy football. Thanks a lot guys.. :-\
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I thought Andre Johnson and Marvin Harrison were above him... Oh well. I should go to some more research.
I hope you mean Wayne.
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Going into that game, he was the leader in passing yards--he now trails Schaub by 12 yards.
Maybe before you claim someone's statement is ridiculous and wrong, you should check the facts...
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Going into that game, he was the leader in passing yards--he now trails Schaub by 12 yards.
Maybe before you claim someone's statement is ridiculous and wrong, you should check the facts...
wow, you were right, I was wrong. Thanks for being so gracious in your victory.
My comment was based on the fact that I would have a hard time putting him in the top 5 quarterbacks of the league right now.
Manning
Brees
Favre
Brady
Schaub? Manning? Rivers? Palmer? Roethlesberger?
he is only throwing that many yards because the steelers are having a hard time runnign the ball which is susually thier bread and butter
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Keep in mind that some QBs haven't had their bye week yet.
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And BTW. 60 yards receiving is nothing to write home about. That amounts to a very pedestrian recieving day.
For a wide receiver, maybe. Thurman Thomas was a running back who "pedestrian receiving day'd" his way into the Hall of Fame.
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Congrats to the vikes for sacking Ben Roethlesberger during his bye week. That was quite a feat! (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4605777)
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Too bad they can't change the "tripping" call and give us back the 14 point swing it caused...
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:rollin:
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There are
9 6 undefeated/winless teams left. Who among them will be the last to keep their perfect/imperfect season going?
The Haves
Colts
Broncos
Vikings
Giants
Saints
The Have Nots...
Chiefs
Titans
Buccaneers
Rams
Bucs are the only "defeated" team left. The broncos fell from the unbeaten ranks this week in a very strong showing by Baltimore. The Colts almost lost to a very impressive effort by San Francisco, and the Giants lost thier third in a row. They looked Bad today doing it as well.
My rankings
1. Saints (pending Monday Night)
2. Colts
3. Vikings
4. Patriots
5. Broncos
6. Pittsburgh
7. Eagles
8. Dallas
9. Cincinnati
10. Houston
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I know that I did not just watch my Packers lose to the Bucs... What a sad day....... Would someone please explain to Ted Thompson what an Offensive Lineman is? 5 sacks (2 were Rodgers fault, but still)??
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Yeah... I wanted to cry. :'(
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At least I won't quit my day job, because I'm a cruddy prognosticator. Giants and 49ers are both 0-4 since my analysis of each division. :laugh:
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I told you about them Bengals... they're still going! I don't think the Ravens can beat them, that's for sure. ;D
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Cedric Benson was the answer the Bengals needed.
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There are 2 undefeated teams left.
Colts
Saints
My rankings
1. Saints (These Saints are more like Superheros!)
2. Colts (would like to see more out of the running game. I think it will improve greatly when Donald Brown gets back)
3. Vikings (still Scarry good)
4. Pitsburgh (WOW, What a dismantling of the Broncos!)
5. Cincinnati (yeah, I think they are that good after sweeping the Ravens. If they can sweep Pittsburg, they go straight to #3)
6. Dallas (Gutsy win over the division rival sunday!)
7. New England - (Looked Vulnerable against Miami on Sunday)
8. Denver - (2 in a row is bad news. Maybe the NFL has Denver figured out?)
9. Philadelphia - (Tough Loss to Dallas but still a tough team to beat...unless you are the Raiders..)
10. San Diego- (gaining ground on Denver...)
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7. New England - (Looked Vulnerable against Miami on Sunday)
Spoken like a true Colts fan.
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7. New England - (Looked Vulnerable against Miami on Sunday)
Spoken like a true Colts fan.
You know it. Hey I have been giving them love earlier in the season. I had them ranked as high as 4th or 5th...
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However, it would be like me saying that the Colts looked vulnerable because they only beat Houston thanks to a missed 42-yd FG. The problem with that logic is that Houston is a division rival. Likewise, Jacksonville's narrow miss against the Colts could have given the misperception that the Colts were vulnerable.
At every level and in every sport, division rivals are the most dangerous. No matter how good your team is compared to theirs, when you play in the division, you had better bring your best game. More upsets happen in the division (or conference for NCAA). At the very least, the games are closer and harder fought.
In the NFL, division teams play twice a year. That kind of exposure leads to better preparation, especially on spur-of-the-moment decisions. Couple that with players who have longevity and your opponents will eventually find a way to beat you.
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At every level and in every sport, division rivals are the most dangerous.
I would agree with that, but contrary to my comment, NE's drop in my opinion wasnt so much that they looked vulnerable against Miami ( I just had to make some comment about them because I had for everyone else) But it was the Wins by the teams of those I placed above them. Cinci's win over Ravens was huge, Pitt's dismantling of denver was also huge. probably the only question mark would be whether I should put Dallas above NE. They all played division rivals (except Pitt and denver) but in neither of those games did the winner ever struggle to win. SO that is why I ranked them as I did.
Feel free to disagree if you want, that is just how this colts fan sees it ;)
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Peterson completely emasculated unfortunate Steelers Corner William Gay. Wow.
you sir, have won the thread. most epic thing I've ever seen in football.
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So did anyone notice the symmetry of the NFC North? Beautiful isn't it?
Team W L
Vikings 7 1
Packers 4 4
Bears 4 4
Lions 1 7
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Three of the four NFC divisions are comfortably led by a team that has never won the Super Bowl, FWIW. :)
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Three of the four NFC divisions are comfortably led by a team that has never won the Super Bowl, FWIW. :)
In direct contrast to the AFC, where 3 of the four divisions are led by a team that has won a Super Bowl since 1999, and only one division led by a team that hasn't won one.
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There are still 2 undefeated teams left.
Colts
Saints
My rankings
1. Colts (Peyton Manning is my Hero!)
2. Saints (Not as impressive against St. Louis as I expected...)
3. Vikings (Impressive Drubbing of...the Lions)
4. Cincinnati (Sweeping the Steelers and the Ravens? They have a Stranglehold on the AFC North!)
5. New England (Tough Loss to my Colts, but hang this one on Bill, not on Brady.)
6. Pittsburg (Tough loss to the Bengals but lets see how they bounce back...)
7. San Diego (I think they are going to win the Division..Again!)
8. Dallas- (Starting to slip. They were dominated in a game they should have won.)
9. Denver - (3 in a row is VERY bad news....)
10. Tennesee - (Yeah, what is a 3-6 team doing here...Well They are a different team now that Vince Young is at the Helm..In my book this team is 3-0)
Some Random Comments about this week:
I am serious about Tennessee. This team is a totally different team and I would not be surprised if they BEAT Indianapolis in two weeks. Tennessee always plays us tough and they scare me now. If they beat Houston Next week then they have to merit SERIOUS consideration as a quality team.
Where are the NY Giants?... they have quietly gone the way of the buffalo...
Speaking of buffalo, that team is melting before our very eyes. It is such a tragedy too because TO was suppose to save them..
I think the list speaks for itself when it says that the AFC is DOMINATING the NFC at this point. The saints are undefeated, but as an Indianapolis Fan, I fear Minnesota more than I fear New Orleans...
Speaking of New Orleans, I think they have the best shot of going undefeated this year. The rest of their season is cake. Could it be possible for us to get TWO undefeated teams to the Superbowl this year? That would be somethign wouldnt it. Then we could tell those 72 Dolphins to get over themselves because ONE of them is gonna finish the regular season AND win the superbowl with a better record than them!
Speaking of the Dolphins, That Wildcat is awfully fun to watch and I am glad that more teams are starting to pick it up..
I live in Cincinnati, but I still have a hard time believing that the bengals are this Good. They are going to contend for Home field advantage and if you can believe it, they would be the #2 seed behind Undefeaded Indianapolis if the playoffs were held today (ABOVE both Denver AND New England). After so many heartbreaking seasons the town is Giddy over the sucess this team is having. That coupled with University of Cincinnati Football makes this neck of the woods pretty darn good in the world of Football.
Adrian Peterson is SOOO good. Now if he could only keep his hands on the ball.... His stats would be Criminal.
How about those Colts? Grinding out yet another Gutsy win over the Hated arch rival Patriots. To be fair I have to thank Bill Bellichek for throwing the game for us. If he punted on that last drive, we might not have won. Peyton is still Peyton, but I will take Peyton and 30 yards to score a TD over Peyton and 70 yards to score a TD any day.
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How about my Redskins and the fake field goal and fake punt on the same play that resulted in a TD?
Kirk
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It is such a tragedy too because TO was suppose to save them..
Time outs won't save you if you call the wrong play... :rollin:
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NO still has to play New England, right? They also have one game left against Atlanta, and if St. Louis exposed some weaknesses in the Saints, you know Atlanta can too.
Of the games left for my Vikings, Cincinnati is definitely a worrisome game.
Tennessee is looking better but they still have much to prove after the disastrous start.
Does Belichek make that call against any other QBs in the league or is it just Peyton? Favre and Rivers come to mind as potential candidates.
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How about my Redskins and the fake field goal and fake punt on the same play that resulted in a TD?
Kirk
That was a gutsy play call that caught them totally off guard.
btw, Today the courts rejected an appeal of a lawsuit by native americans against the redskins for the trademark on their name and logo.
AS a redskin fan what do you think about the issues with that? Do you agree with the team or the Native American groups or do you see some middle ground?
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HOW ABOUT THEM BENGALS!?!!?!?!? I will keep saying this until they go at the top of anyone's list. ;D
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To be fair I have to thank Bill Bellichek for throwing the game for us. If he punted on that last drive, we might not have won.
Patriots fans sentiments exactly. Kudos to the Colts for getting it done, but that 4th down call garnered a collective gasp throughout the New England states.
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I like the call personally. The Patriots hadn't been stopping the Colts all night long - Tom Brady thinks (And Bill does too) That he's the best QB in the league, The very same play that failed on 4th and 2 had been working for them well all night long, And If Bill hadn't wasted his timeouts earlier he would have been fine - It's my opinion from all the replays I've seen that Faulk had control beyond the line - And that's the real problem with the play - WHY ARE YOU THROWING TO FAULK ON 4th AND TWO!!! Iso Moss on the edge let him run a double move and go deep, Run the fastest player on your team (Welker) on a slant (The Pack is amazing at this play), Get it to Maroney on a screen - The Pats are a very good screen team. Any one of those options is better than throwing to faulk at the line on 4th and the game.
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I think it was the most respect that Belichek has shown to Manning in all their games against one another.
But I dissagree, Punting the ball and making Manning drive 70 Yards would have been the better call. The patriots had gone Three and out a lot in the 4th quarter. The Colts had them dialed in. But on the other side of the ball, you would force Manning to drive 70 yards with rookie recievers who had several dropped passes and a weak run game. Manning is great, but even he struggled with those factors last night.
Garcon was targeted 11 times and only caught 3 of them. If he has even caught 2-3 more, the game would not have been so close and several of those drives would have continued for the colts, but he did drop them and the drives stalled.
I was honestly worried that Manning wouldnt have been able to drive the distance for the score.
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Even if the play had been working earlier, that would only mean that the defense would eventually be ready for it. Too much of a good thing and all....
The bottom line was a mixture of arrogance and fear. However, as much as fear of what Peyton could do was a part of it, we're talking our own 30 yard line! This was mostly about arrogance that Brady could get it done. It's the same arrogance that makes you think it's OK to video tape your opponents' practices.
As a die-hard Patriots fan, I am over Bill B. He needs to go.
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Yeah... I've basically lost all respect for the Patriots from all the hype of Brady being the best (Brett Favre is 40 and has better stats than him), looking at other team's formations, and... yeah, those things are pretty much it. Did I mention that I don't like Brady?
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Yeah... I've basically lost all respect for the Patriots from all the hype of Brady being the best (Brett Favre is 40 and has better stats than him), looking at other team's formations, and... yeah, those things are pretty much it. Did I mention that I don't like Brady?
Did you factor in that Brady is returning from a devestating Knee Injury and isn't benefitting from arguably the best single player in the league?
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Sounds like most of you have been programmed by the media, which includes former players and coaches. I believe Belichek weighed the odds and made the decision that would give his team the best chance to win. It is my opinion that NFL coaches are mostly "wussies". They should be going for it on 4th down much more often.
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btw, Today the courts rejected an appeal of a lawsuit by native americans against the redskins for the trademark on their name and logo.
When was the last time thousands of people were cheering for any other native American group? I don't understand the problem here. If people were trying to associate native Americans with something negative, then maybe they'd have a gripe. But if they are being honored by having a professional football team after them, then I don't see where the issue is.
Some might say that it is still derogatory to even refer to native Americans as "red" skins, and that is probably true. However, they aren't really calling native Americans Redskins. They are calling the football players on the team Redskins (and I doubt if any of them are actually native American). Personally, I think it would be more offensive to the players in Tampa Bay who are all called Buccaneers. There's nothing wrong with having "red" skin, but it is morally wrong to be a pirate.
I guess most of all I think the whole thing is silly. If someone called an NFL team the Redemption Nerds, it wouldn't bother me. Sure it is using a derogatory term to describe a group that I am identified with. However, I would either be honored or completely not care. I wouldn't take them to court.
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I think that any Christians that play for the Duke Blue Devils or the Wake Forest Demon Deacons should sue. ;)
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It is my opinion that NFL coaches are mostly "wussies". They should be going for it on 4th down much more often.
I agree to some extent with this, but there's so many factors to weigh. First off it really depends on the style of your team. If you have a shutdown defense and lackluster offense, then you're better off punting and playing the field position battle. If you have a shutdown defense and powerful offense then you should go for it more often than you don't. If you have a weak defense but really good offense, then it depends on where exactly you are on the field. Then there's factors such as field goal range, the strength of the opposing team, the score, time left in the game, distance for 1st down, momentum of the game, home or away, etc.
I would like to see my team go for it on 4th down more often than they do. However, I also believe that Belicheck made the wrong call in that situation.
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I would like to see my team go for it on 4th down more often than they do.
But not from your own 30, when you're winning by 6, with two minutes to play, and your opponent only has one time out.
I would like to see my team go for it on 4th down when they have little to lose. In this case, losing the game was more than a little.
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btw, Today the courts rejected an appeal of a lawsuit by native americans against the redskins for the trademark on their name and logo.
When was the last time thousands of people were cheering for any other native American group? I don't understand the problem here. If people were trying to associate native Americans with something negative, then maybe they'd have a gripe. But if they are being honored by having a professional football team after them, then I don't see where the issue is.
Some might say that it is still derogatory to even refer to native Americans as "red" skins, and that is probably true. However, they aren't really calling native Americans Redskins. They are calling the football players on the team Redskins (and I doubt if any of them are actually native American). Personally, I think it would be more offensive to the players in Tampa Bay who are all called Buccaneers. There's nothing wrong with having "red" skin, but it is morally wrong to be a pirate.
I guess most of all I think the whole thing is silly. If someone called an NFL team the Redemption Nerds, it wouldn't bother me. Sure it is using a derogatory term to describe a group that I am identified with. However, I would either be honored or completely not care. I wouldn't take them to court.
Yeah, I am WAY on the other side of this fence. Having a team named the Washington Redskins is pretty much tantamount to having a team called the Jackson Mississippi
N!&&er$. If you want to honor a group of people, why not get their permission like the Florida State Seminoles did, but hijacking a deroggatory lable for a group for your own purposes without getting their permission is not honoring that group, it is basically making a mockery of them and their heratige.
You know where the word "Mascots" comes from dont you? it is from the spanish word Mascotas for "Pet". Basically you are emasculating a group of people and making them pets for your pleasure.
I think it is fine if they dont have a problem with it and offer their name or likeness with their permission, But here they clearly have not.
Moving on:
I would like to see my team go for it on 4th down more often than they do.
But not from your own 30, when you're winning by 6, with two minutes to play, and your opponent only has one time out.
I would like to see my team go for it on 4th down when they have little to lose. In this case, losing the game was more than a little.
Exactly, I am fine with coaches groing a bigger pair, but there is some common sense that should be gained here. Fourth and short on the opponents 45 yard line is a much better call than forth and short on your own 28. The risk vs. reward is much greater.
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Exactly, I am fine with coaches groing a bigger pair, ...
I'm assuming you meant grow a bigger pear, however gardening skills have nothing to do with coaching skills unless you are privy to some secret study that has not been made public.
Pear Bryant, perhaps?
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Yeah...yeah...I meant pear ;)
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It doesn't matter what yard line you are on. If you are concerned about what yard line you are on then you are generally more focused on losing. I don't care if I'm on my 1-yard line. If I have a play that 80% of the time I get 2 yards and a first down and leads to a win with kneel-downs, then I'll take that over 65-75% chance of winning when I give Peyton the ball back when my defense has been porous. The Patriots players, to a man, know that Belicheck is going to give them the best chance to win. They supported his decision.
Check out this (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/060926) article.
I also abhor coaches who make mental mistakes that a toddler could figure out. The Lion's head coach pulled a few boners during their game with Minnesota, which they had a chance to WIN. At the end of the first half, the Lions had an opportunity to go for a TD with 8 seconds left. That's plenty of time to throw in the end zone, and if it's incomplete, THEN you kick the field goal. But NO! The head coach trots the field goal unit onto the field. I turned to my friend, a Lion's fan, and said, "I'm sorry. Game over." AND HE AGREED! Several times in the second half the Lions had 4th and shorts only to punt...EVEN when they were in Vikings territory! The Lions were actually averaging over 5 yards per play at that point. Holy Cow! You're 1-7. You have nothing to lose! Go for it! Give your players the message that your tired of having that franchise be a bunch of losers. Give them the message you want to do something about it and you trust your players to make the plays! Instead, he sent the message that, "Hey, we're still a bunch of losers, but I'm going to make the game look closer than it really is and save my job."
Playing to WIN is very, very different than playing not to lose. It's all mental and can give your team the edge.
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Playing to WIN is very, very different than playing not to lose. It's all mental and can give your team the edge.
Except that it didn't. They lost.
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Right - But thats not what Scott said - Very good article Scott -
Also - After I posted earlier I went and watched the replay's about 20 times, and every time I watch it, I become more convinced that Bill made the right call - And here's why - He got the first down. Faulk bobbles it yes - But he regains control before he's hit. The reason the Pats lost that game is because of Bill's poor clock management - If he had had a timeout he could have challenged - and I think he would have won.
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I would like to see my team go for it on 4th down more often than they do.
you've seen the vikings offense in the fourth quarter. every game I've seen they've almost blown it. against the steelers they did blow it. 2 interception touchdowns.
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Playing to WIN is very, very different than playing not to lose. It's all mental and can give your team the edge.
Except that it didn't. They lost.
True. But based on the odds they win the next four. Whereas playing it safe may net a 3-2 record.
If the chances go up to 100%, then some team goes 19-0 every year and everyone stops watching the NFL. There will always be a chance to lose. But if you maximize your team's chances to win over time, you can turn a franchise around to a winner. If that weren't true then there's a whole lot of people that are looking at one nasty surprise when they cash in their 401k at retirement. ;)
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You know where the word "Mascots" comes from dont you? it is from the spanish word Mascotas for "Pet". Basically you are emasculating a group of people and making them pets for your pleasure.
This suggests that the mascot is emasculated for the benefit of the team, when in fact many mascots are vicious or powerful animals depicting the ferocity of the team in question. It's an empowering symbol, not one that detracts.
It doesn't matter what yard line you are on.
So no difference to you between your 30 yard line and the opponent's 30 yard line? If I had a choice between making their team drive 30 yards and making them drive 70 yards, I take 70.
And this is from a guy that thinks there should be more four-down football.
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It doesn't matter what yard line you are on.
So no difference to you between your 30 yard line and the opponent's 30 yard line? If I had a choice between making their team drive 30 yards and making them drive 70 yards, I take 70.
And this is from a guy that thinks there should be more four-down football.
But that's not the point. My decision comes to either I run a play that 80% of the time gets me the yards I need which guarantees the win, or take my chances on extending the game and having chances that are less than 80%. By saying there's a choice between giving your opponent 70 or 30 yards to score a TD is focusing on the 20% chance of losing. That sends the message that you're playing not to lose at that point in time (where your chances are higher) versus waiting later to see what your chances are of not losing. And the reason coaches are afraid is that they know they'll get grilled in the press which makes their job situation risky. If the Patriots win that game, the best that Belicheck could expect from the press is a "wow, that was risky, but you got lucky."
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The Lion's head coach pulled a few boners during their game with Minnesota, which they had a chance to WIN.
Detroit's last chance to win that game ended when Favre and Peterson got out of bed Sunday morning... ::)
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You know where the word "Mascots" comes from dont you? it is from the spanish word Mascotas for "Pet". Basically you are emasculating a group of people and making them pets for your pleasure.
This suggests that the mascot is emasculated for the benefit of the team, when in fact many mascots are vicious or powerful animals depicting the ferocity of the team in question. It's an empowering symbol, not one that detracts.
So, your argument is that all these powerful mascots are really scarry, and dangerous..underneath the cuddly costume? So you must be terrified of the goofy looking mascot for the Cleveland Indians? What about Chief Iliniwik for the Illini? These are not empowering symbols, they are sideways shots at a minority culture. Perhaps I should start a team named the El Paso Wetbacks, The mascot could be a Mexican sleeping under a large sombrero. That would be a nearly one to one comparison for Cleveland and Chief Wahoo.
You are half right. Most teams choose a powerful or Ferocious Animal....but we arent talking about "animals" here...or have you simply robbed the native americans of ALL of their dignity? ;)
As I have said before, If you want to work with the culture and honor the culture, then do that. Other team mascots that are named for cultural heritage icons such as the NE Patriots are treated with dignity. Caricatures of Native Americans are often made to look foolish.
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Okay but seriously.... how about them bengals!?
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Okay but seriously.... how about them bengals!?
It's amazing to think that they would get a first round bye if the play-offs started today...
They remind me of my Vikings--very tough defense and a well-balanced offense. Overall I think our offensive talent is superior though. Should be a great game when they visit us in the Dome.
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If you want to honor a group of people, why not get their permission like the Florida State Seminoles did, but hijacking a derogatory lable for a group for your own purposes without getting their permission is not honoring that group, it is basically making a mockery of them and their heritage.
Florida State didn't "get permission" until they also were threatened with a lawsuit. And all of this "outrage" from native Americans has all come up in the last 20 years. People chose those mascots many decades before that. It is possible that Redskin wasn't even considered offensive back then (similar to how "black" was the preferred term prior to "african American"). I just think that this whole issue is due to hypersensitivity, political correctness, and greed in a overly litigious society.
You know where the word "Mascots" comes from don't you? it is from the Spanish word Mascotas for "Pet". Basically you are emasculating a group of people and making them pets for your pleasure.
I agree with Schaef that in general mascots are supposed to be symbols of how powerful your team is (apologies to weak mascotted teams like OSU, Texas A&M, Maryland, Syracuse, and Oklahoma). What the word means in Spanish is of very little consequence.
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Whoa now! Don't go hatting on my Terps!!!
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Whoa now! Don't go hatting on my Terps!!!
It's not my fault that your school picked a turtle to strike fear in the hearts of their opponents :)
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Fear the Turtle! Unstoppable Starts Here! Other nonsense we add for 250,000 in advertising but then increase fees 10-12% due to the state giving us a budget cut....(don't get me started...)
As to this:
And all of this "outrage" from native Americans has all come up in the last 20 years. People chose those mascots many decades before that.
The earliest date I have seen has been 1968 for Native American protests. And to be fair, Native American, of all of the minority groups in this nation have been given the short end of the stick in the name of "manifest destiny". Yes, slavery was a terrible, terrible thing, but last I checked we did not create government plots of land to force African Americans to and then become supremely surprised when the rates of suicide, drunkenness and the like are astronomical among the Native Americans. Perception is a big thing, and other groups that have been used for mascots that had any inkling of racism have been changed, so why should Native Americans be any different?
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The earliest date I have seen has been 1968 for Native American protests.
Thanks for the fact checking. I didn't remember any protests that far back, but I stand corrected.
And to be fair, Native American, of all of the minority groups in this nation have been given the short end of the stick
I agree that this minority group has been severely mistreated throughout most of our country's history. But that doesn't mean that when the football team in Washington was picking a mascot that they were trying to hurt them. I hope that no one really thinks that they were sitting in a room and said, "Hey lets make fun of native Americans by calling ourselves the Redskins". I think it is much more likely that they said, "Hey lets call ourselves the Redskins because native Americans are strong and brave, and that's what we want our football team to be like."
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The Patriots players, to a man, know that Belicheck is going to give them the best chance to win. They supported his decision.
For the record, the Patriots who want to keep their job support Bill's decisions publicly. Ask Richard Seymour about what happens when you counter the coach.
And the reason coaches are afraid is that they know they'll get grilled in the press which makes their job situation risky. If the Patriots win that game, the best that Belicheck could expect from the press is a "wow, that was risky, but you got lucky."
Considering Bill's attitude during Spygate, I really don't think he is concerned with the press grill.
So no difference to you between your 30 yard line and the opponent's 30 yard line? If I had a choice between making their team drive 30 yards and making them drive 70 yards, I take 70.
I agree with Schaef here. Although I can name plenty of times that I wished my team would go for it on fourth, this was definitely not one of those times. There is a time for everything under the sun - except going for it on 4th & 2 from your own 30 when you're winning by 6 with two minutes to play and your opponent only has one timeout.
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Good news for the Ravens!
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2009/11/Ravens_Release_Hauschka.aspx (http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2009/11/Ravens_Release_Hauschka.aspx)
I feel sorry for the guy, but he lost us at least one game, and didnt help in several others.
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The Patriots players, to a man, know that Belicheck is going to give them the best chance to win. They supported his decision.
For the record, the Patriots who want to keep their job support Bill's decisions publicly. Ask Richard Seymour about what happens when you counter the coach.
I want to keep my job. I publicly support the "Bill" who leads my company. If I didn't, or thought I had a better way of selling pears, I imagine I would be working elsewhere. ;)
And the reason coaches are afraid is that they know they'll get grilled in the press which makes their job situation risky. If the Patriots win that game, the best that Belicheck could expect from the press is a "wow, that was risky, but you got lucky."
Considering Bill's attitude during Spygate, I really don't think he is concerned with the press grill.
I agree with you that Belicheck is not concerned with how he is viewed by the press. But the general reference of "coaches" I made would include most in the establishment.
So no difference to you between your 30 yard line and the opponent's 30 yard line? If I had a choice between making their team drive 30 yards and making them drive 70 yards, I take 70.
I agree with Schaef here. Although I can name plenty of times that I wished my team would go for it on fourth, this was definitely not one of those times. There is a time for everything under the sun - except going for it on 4th & 2 from your own 30 when you're winning by 6 with two minutes to play and your opponent only has one timeout.
Let see if I can use an analogy: you feel ill and the doctor tells you that there are a couple of treatments that he can use to start helping you feel better. One way is almost immediate while the other may take several days. The former has some possible major side effects that can occur while the latter has minimal side effects. The doctor does add that the major side effects for the former treatment are rare.
Which treatment do you choose?
The doctor then reveals that the first treatment is a shot with a very large needle whereas the second treatment is a pill.
Now which do you choose? :laugh:
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You forgot to mention that the first treatment's "major side effect" is dying.
I choose the second treatment.
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You forgot to mention that the first treatment's "major side effect" is dying.
I choose the second treatment.
Oh sure, just like every NFL fan who thinks they're dying and the world is coming to an end when their team loses. ;)
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Oh sure, just like every NFL fan who thinks they're dying and the world is coming to an end when their team loses. ;)
Actually, I am not lamenting my team's loss. If you make a bonehead choice and lose because of it, then you get what you deserve. Given that we also gave away a potential winning touchdown on the goalline fumble, I think we are fairly confident that we will finish the season strong. I am prepared for a postseason as division winners, and hopeful that the PTB (that's singular in New England) make the right decisions when we play the Colts again in the playoffs.
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As to this:
And all of this "outrage" from native Americans has all come up in the last 20 years. People chose those mascots many decades before that.
The earliest date I have seen has been 1968 for Native American protests. And to be fair, Native American, of all of the minority groups in this nation have been given the short end of the stick in the name of "manifest destiny". Yes, slavery was a terrible, terrible thing, but last I checked we did not create government plots of land to force African Americans to and then become supremely surprised when the rates of suicide, drunkenness and the like are astronomical among the Native Americans. Perception is a big thing, and other groups that have been used for mascots that had any inkling of racism have been changed, so why should Native Americans be any different?
Bingo ;)
Also the argument that just because something may not have been harmful when it was originally started does not mean that it cant be considered harmful later on. The more likely scenario is that the minority culture could not voice their opposition until the majority culture became more accomodating to thier desires. This is similar to the way the "Civil Rights" movement seems to Spring out of thin air in the 1960s if you look at it only from a white perspective. From a white perspective, all of a sudden you have uppity black folk who are trying to get their "rights" rocking hte boat when things have been fine all along. But from the black perpsective things have not been fine all along and it was only at that time that they had enough support in the majority culture to insist on being treated fairly. But from the black perpsective, the civil rights movement has been going on for centuries.
I see the native american movement in a similar light.
And I think from a christian perspective that this should not even be an issue. How can a christian seriously argue for an organization that uses as its symbol a racially disparaging word or icon? AS ambassadors for christ who made us all equal in christ, how can we support this type of behavior in the mainstream culture? By doing it would be the same as if we held those ideas and passed them off as our own and basically say that it is acceptable in a christian life to embrace racial epithats.
From my perspective, if it is the right thing to do, then it is right no matter what the cost. Will it cost the Washington Redskins a lot of money to change their name, logo and identity? Yes, it will. But if it is right, it is right no matter what the cost. Now do I expect the Redskins to live by that motto? no. But I think they should.
Florida State didn't "get permission" until they also were threatened with a lawsuit.
True, but that does nothing to help any argument you may be constructing here. The washington redskins obviously havent changed their name even WITH a lawsuit. but one thing Florida State did do is work with the tribe to come to an agreement about using their name and image as their team representative and Mascot.
And another issue that is even closer to a direct comparison. Miami University used to be called the Miami Redskins. Miami is named after the Miami indians who used to live in this area. About 10 years ago they changed their name to the Redhawks because the tribe had protested their use of the derogatory "Redskins" as the College logo and mascot. There are still signs around town where people still cking to the old identity. There is a buisness called "redskin realty" in down town oxford and once when I went to a Miami Hockey game I saw a fan wearing what I thought was a Washington redskin Jersey but it was a Miami Redskin Jersey and he still refused to call them the "Redhawks"
While individual fans may have a hard time adjusting, the vast majority of the United States knows Miami by the "Redhawks" mascot. They were asked to change and they did so because they wanted to keep a good relationship with the tribe. Miami University still has several programs that work in conjunction with the Miami Tribe including one of the only places where the Miami Language is still written and recorded.
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It is also possible for a few members of a tribe to take offense, when the mjority does not. Case in point:
Arcadia High School has an Apache as its mascot. A local man who is part Apache and a couple of his friends decided to stir up trouble at some games at the school, holding up signs, yelling, threatening to sue, and whatnot.
The school contacted the Apache tribe and asked their opinion. The tribe responded that they were honored to be used as a mascott provided they see what images were used and approve them. The school gave them pictures of all icons, images, and outfits worn by school members that had anything to do with the mascott. The tribe approved of EVERYTHING the school had been doing save one thing: The girls that march in front of the band were no longer allowed to wear the headdress of Apache men (seeing as they were females), and were told to wear the headdress of Apache women instead. The tribe even provided a picture of what it should look like. This began a great period of cooperation between the school and the tribe, to the point where the school now has a jacket and clothing drive for the tribe every year. When my brother-in-law was an administrator at the school, he went on the trip to deliver the clothes one year and said they were treated warmly, respectfuly, and gratefully. Not a single tribe member complained about the huge Arcadia Apache words or picture on the side of the trailer.
But at the next game, that local, obnoxious part-Apache man was back with his banners to protest. In my opinion, some people are too sensitive and take offense too quickly, especially when they think they can make money from it (by suing or threatening to sue).
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It is also possible for a few members of a tribe to take offense, when the mjority does not. Case in point:
Arcadia High School has an Apache as its mascot. A local man who is part Apache and a couple of his friends decided to stir up trouble at some games at the school, holding up signs, yelling, threatening to sue, and whatnot.
The school contacted the Apache tribe and asked their opinion. The tribe responded that they were honored to be used as a mascott provided they see what images were used and approve them. The school gave them pictures of all icons, images, and outfits worn by school members that had anything to do with the mascott. The tribe approved of EVERYTHING the school had been doing save one thing: The girls that march in front of the band were no longer allowed to wear the headdress of Apache men (seeing as they were females), and were told to wear the headdress of Apache women instead. The tribe even provided a picture of what it should look like. This began a great period of cooperation between the school and the tribe, to the point where the school now has a jacket and clothing drive for the tribe every year. When my brother-in-law was an administrator at the school, he went on the trip to deliver the clothes one year and said they were treated warmly, respectfuly, and gratefully. Not a single tribe member complained about the huge Arcadia Apache words or picture on the side of the trailer.
But at the next game, that local, obnoxious part-Apache man was back with his banners to protest. In my opinion, some people are too sensitive and take offense too quickly, especially when they think they can make money from it (by suing or threatening to sue).
All of this is true. Sometimes people say there is a problem when there is not one. I am not familiar with anything about this case other than the headline and the few articles I have read about it. But while Arcadia was using the proper name or title for a single group and could do justice by them ( and actually sought to do justice by them) the Washington Redskins are using a derogatory title for an entire race of people and have not, to my knowlege, or sought to do justice by that group.
All I can say is that when Miami university asked to continue using the "redskin" term they were told, flat out, "No, Not under any circumstances" There was no negotiation with the tribe, they would not tolerate it and did not appreciate its use. I would think that similar sentiments would apply to Washington if you polled the general Native American population. but I could be wrong.
I do know that it offends me and I am not even part Native American. What Arcadia HS did was, in my mind, a christian response to the same issue. You may be doing something for a long time and not know that it deeply offends someone. When the issue was brought to the light, they sought the council of those who would be in charge and sought Permission and made changes to accomodate that group of people in an effort to honor their culture.
When I see Washington do that, Then I will be fine with their organization.
Other notable Teams such as the Atlanta Braves and Cleveland Indians are a bit more of a gray area. In many tribes they would have no problems with the names Braves or Indians since they tend to be more generic terms. But I know that many native Americans that I have talked to (Miami University has a surprising number of them in attendance) think that Chief Wahoo of Cleveland is somewhat offensive given the goofy caricature that he represents.
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I generally enjoy reading Bill Simmons, Gregg Easterbrook, and Dan Wetzel because each of them resist the temptation to fall in line with the general overall media. As such, they look at a situation and analyze it objectively without pre-conceived notions that are common in the sports world. Dan Wetzel has a very good article regarding the Belicheck decision:
Here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Agd3MoxrPfvSYqzcsy1zm.NDubYF?slug=dw-belichickpats111609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Gregg also supports Belicheck's decision:
Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091117&sportCat=nfl)
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wow. Peyton Manning became the only quarterback to throw 40,000 yards in any decade and he only needs 3 TD's to be first player to throw 300 TD's in any decade. Yeah..that is awesome!
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I don't know if he can get 3 touchdowns... that's gonna be tough for him... ::)
But how about them Bengals!?!?!?
And Brett Favre, I think, is the top quarterback. He has only 2 (or 3?) interceptions, tied for the most touchdowns with a few guys (I might be wrong I checked this before last week's games), and is only a few hundred yards from being the first. But every quarterback with more yards or interceptions has at least 2-3 more interceptions. And he's 40!
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Favre is playing the best football of his life - I don't think that can be argued - In any other season he's the MVP hands down - But this year seems to be the year of the QB. I've got Manning, Brees and as Suprising as it is Rivers above Brett right now.
Ok - So I was joking about Rivers - But he's having a great year too.
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Also the argument that just because something may not have been harmful when it was originally started does not mean that it cant be considered harmful later on...This is similar to the way the "Civil Rights" movement seems
I can't believe you are comparing a football team mascot to the Civil Rights movement. African Americans in the 60's had legitimate hardships forced on them (inadequate schools, inadequate access to voting, and inadequate justice for violent crimes committed against them by hate groups like the KKK). Having a football team named after your group is NOT comparable harm by any stretch of the imagination.
From my perspective, if it is the right thing to do, then it is right no matter what the cost.
As you know that is my perspective too. I am just not convinced that this is the right thing to do. If a school wants to change mascots (like Miami), then I don't have a problem with that. In fact I would go so far as to agree with you that I wouldn't personally name an organization that I had control over "the Redskins". However, I am just not convinced that this is a big deal.
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Please take the mascot issue to another thread. This thread is about football. Thank you. :)
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I generally enjoy reading Bill Simmons, Gregg Easterbrook, and Dan Wetzel because each of them resist the temptation to fall in line with the general overall media. As such, they look at a situation and analyze it objectively without pre-conceived notions that are common in the sports world. Dan Wetzel has a very good article regarding the Belicheck decision:
Here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Agd3MoxrPfvSYqzcsy1zm.NDubYF?slug=dw-belichickpats111609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Gregg also supports Belicheck's decision:
Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091117&sportCat=nfl)
I still disagree, and that is from a lifetime Patriots fan. I understand your reliance on numbers, but the numbers can be made to look any way you want them to.
For instance, you had said that he chose a play that works 80% of the time (references please). Does it work 80% of the time on 4th down? Does it work 80% of the time on your own 30? Does it work 80% of the time with two minutes left in the game? Does it work 80% of the time when we're winning by 6? All of those individual factors have to be examined since each scenario will have different results. That is because the pass rush changes, the coverage changes, and the exhaustion changes in each of those situations.
You could also say that one choice has an 80% chance of success, but if it fails, the opponent has an 80% of winning. Otherwise, the opponent would only have a 20% chance of winning. In that case, the coach did not put his team in the best situation to win.
I have said all I really want to say on this matter. There is really no sports writer who can convince me that Bill's decision was wise. It was the wrong call for the situation, IMO. As my evidence, I present exhibit A: a big L.
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Favre is playing the best football of his life - I don't think that can be argued - In any other season he's the MVP hands down - But this year seems to be the year of the QB. I've got Manning, Brees and as Suprising as it is Rivers above Brett right now.
Ok - So I was joking about Rivers - But he's having a great year too.
I was about to be like "RIVERS!?!?!?" Hahah thanks for the clarification.
Manning: 2,872 Yards, 20 TDs, 7 Ints. -- 357 Attempts
Favre: 2269 Yards, 17 TDs, 3 Ints. -- 285
Brees: 2559 Yards, 19 TDs, 9 Ints. -- 291 Attempts
No point of posting completion percentages cause they're all within a percentage of each other.
Those are the stats. Considering Manning has thrown about 70-80 more passes than Favre or Brees, and yet doesn't have THAT many more TD (and 4 more Int than Favre), I'd put Favre above him. Brees and Favre have thrown comparable amounts of passes, but Favre has only two less TD and less than 300 more yards, and yet has 6 less interceptions. I'd put him above Brees.
Those three are about tied when you look at overall attempts, touchdowns, interceptions and yards. At this points it's up to what kind of QB you like. I'd take Favre cause he has the best TD/Int ratio, but someone might like yardage more and pick Manning. It's up for grabs at this point for who gets MVP.
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IMO, Brees and Manning are infinately more valuable. A chicken with it's head cut off could run the Vikings offense (unless that chicken's name is Jackson). I maintain any average QB would succeed with the Vikings. This is not true of the Saints or Colts.
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I have to agree that Brees or Manning are the front runners for MVP. If Farve gets hurt the vikings still have an amazing running game that can win games, but the colts and saints don't really have that. I really look at it this way if a player were to get hurt and not play again this season how big of a drop off would there team have. The colts with out manning are a below 500 team. Saints are the same thing if they lose Brees, but if Farve goes down I still see the vikings winning games and being atleast 500 but probably even higher then that. Farve does add wins to the vikings but not on a level like Brees or Manning.
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If Manning passes for over 5000 yards this year, then the MVP is his. Same for Brees or Favre.
No question that Favre is playing the best football of his life and he has a great O-line and Adrian Peterson to thank for that. The simple fact that he doesnt HAVE to throw all the time makes his stats better.
But if Manning Breaks Marinos record with Wayne, Clark and a host of rookies, then how can you not say he is the MVP? If you view the MVP as the person who means the most to his team then, the Colts are a 4 and 12 team without Manning. The Vikes would probably still probably be 9-7 without Favre. and the Saints would likely still have a winning record as well.
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I disagree. The Vikings have never been a 9-1 team at all! Now Favre comes and they're expected to win the super bowl. That's a valuable player for you.
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I disagree. The Vikings have never been a 9-1 team at all! Now Favre comes and they're expected to win the super bowl. That's a valuable player for you.
Forgive me Viking fans but I must inform the young ninja padawan that Minnesota has been a 9-1 team, most recently in 1998 with Randall Cunningham at QB, Randy Moss a rookie at WR, and the never-miss Gary Anderson at placekicker. ;)
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I didn't mean literally NEVER... I just mean that the recent Vikings team hasn't been close to 9-1.
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I didn't mean literally NEVER...
...and the never-miss Gary Anderson at placekicker.
You're right! He did miss at least once that I remember. ;)
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I disagree. The Vikings have never been a 9-1 team at all! Now Favre comes and they're expected to win the super bowl. That's a valuable player for you.
Forgive me Viking fans but I must inform the young ninja padawan that Minnesota has been a 9-1 team, most recently in 1998 with Randall Cunningham at QB, Randy Moss a rookie at WR, and the never-miss Gary Anderson at placekicker. ;)
AND CHRIS CARTER! HOW DARE YOU FORGET HIM!
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Cris* actually
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Cris* actually
ahh, I thought it looked wrong.
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All I know is that the 1998 Vikings were who we thought they were. ;)
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Just like this year's 49ers... ::)
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All I know is that the 1998 Vikings were who we thought they were. ;)
Dennis Green -(Official) Coors Light Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nda0lhz7BAk#)
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Just like this year's 49ers... ::)
The jury's still out...but we know for sure they won't win the division. :-\
I'm not worried. The Traveling Favre Show should be playing in the Bay area next season, and it won't be for the Raiders. :laugh:
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I hope Brett Favre doesn't play for a fifth team... that'd be too spread out. :-\
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I hope Brett plays another 29 seasons - Setting the record for the first QB to play for all 32 teams. Maybe he can cut that in half by playing for two each year... trade him halfway through..
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There are still 2 undefeated teams left.
Colts
Saints
My rankings
1. Saints -Way to beat Tampa Bay...now can you do it against New England?
2. Colts -Offense was ugly (3 turnovers) but the defense was sexy!
3. Vikings -These Guys are looking good. Before long I may have to move them above my Colts even if the Colts Don't lose
4. New England - God win to climb back into it. Way to put fourth and 2 behind you.
5. San Diego - Denver who? A statement win by a surging AFC West Team!
6. Arizona - 3 wins in a row but losses to Carolina and San Francisco hurt them. Can they give the Vikings some competition in week 13?
7. Cincinnati -If you are going to lose, you picked a good week to do so with everyone in your division following suit, but really? The Raiders?
8. Dallas - a W is a W but that was a real ugly win. No bonus points for Dallas. I still think they are posers in a weak division.
9. Pittsburg -Two in a row hurts, and losing big Ben to a concussion does not bode well for their wild card chances...
10. Green Bay - They won two in a row, but I dont think anyone is convinced that they really top 10 worthy, they just happen to be less worse than everyone else
Out of the top 10:
probably down to at least 15. Denver - If 3 in a row was VERY bad news.... what do you think 4 in a row means
-. Tennesee - Pending Monday nights game, I may demote Green Bay
Some Random Comments about this week:
Cincinnati seems to play to the calibre of their opponent. What they need to do is just schedule undefeated teams to play. But my real problem with that game was not their abysmal offense but the fact that with 30 seconds to go the Kick returner decided to RUN IT OUT OF THE END ZONE AT ALL! Seriously, I think that kick returners should play smarter ball. Too many of them run it out of the end zone only to get tackled at the 15 yard line when they could have had it at the 20 (and more time on the clock) or in this case ACTUALLY RETAINED POSESSION OF THE BALL. Take a knee and win it in overtime. Stop trying to be a hero and be a team player.
Colts defense looked mighty fine. And that run game looked pretty good as well now that both Addai and Brown are back in the game...
I think the Steelers are hurt more by Ben's concussion than the Cardinals are by Warner. Leinart ought to be able to run that offense pretty well, but this may spell the end of Warners career unless he can bounce back quickly.
The NFC East... Oh how you surprise me. I picked the Giants to win the Division and probably the NFC Championship and now we have three teams tripping over themselves trying desperately not to suck worse than Washington. These teams are the model of INconisistency.
Miami is quietly taking care of buisness and is poised to take a shot at an AFC Wildcard spot.
What is going on in Denver? This is more surprising than Denvers 6-0 start.
Was T.O really making Touchdown Celebrations today? What does he really have to celebrate?
Picking the Wild Card in the NFC looks like it will be hard this year. Green Bay is surging but can they hold up? Atlanta is falling but will it continue?
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By saying there's a choice between giving your opponent 70 or 30 yards to score a TD is focusing on the 20% chance of losing. That sends the message that you're playing not to lose at that point in time (where your chances are higher) versus waiting later to see what your chances are of not losing.
That's just wordsmithing the decision-making process. One could just as easily argue that playing to keep the ball and run out the clock is "playing not to lose". Additionally, I reject outright any suggestion that putting one's defense on the field is not also "playing to win". I don't know of a defense in the country who would tell you that their job is "not to lose the game"; they will state just as emphatically that they are out there to win. This whole notion of "playing not to lose" is so overwrought that I think it only really applies about 10% of the time it's utilized.
So, your argument is that all these powerful mascots are really scarry, and dangerous..underneath the cuddly costume?
Essentially, yes. I will very happily stand by the notion that a panther or a buccaneer or even a redskin is intended to intimidate. Conversely, I would have no confidence at all in supposing that the selection of the mascot is designed to promote e.g. football as a cuddly sport, or any NFL organization as a cuddly team.
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One last thing to consider, the play WORKED, but Faulk dropped the pass.
But how about them bengals!?!? Seriously how pathetic? What a dumb kick return... he should be fired NOW.
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One last thing to consider, the play WORKED, ...
Wait, you mean we won? Someone alert the NFL so that the correct rankings are recorded. ;)
The play only "worked" if it did what it was supposed to - get the first down. It did not.
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Okay okay okay... what I meant was, the play up until the catch worked perfectly. The RB was open and passed the first down line. Saying that it was a horrible decision because Faulk dropped it I don't think is a valid point. Otherwise Favre shouldn't have thrown to Taylor against the Steelers. No one was mad against that call. Both plays played out well but failed because of a mistake on the RB's part.
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A failed first down attempt is a failed first dwon attempt, no matter what circumstances caused it. Things happen, RBs bobble, patches of grass slide, wind blows in weird circles, QBs trip over their linemen's feet, a defender gets left unblocked, a contact lens falls out, the blocker gets gas pains, sudden rain squalls occur only over the stadium, a low-flying bird gets hit by the pass, a man on a snowblower clears the field for the home-team kicker, a tipped pass bounces off the guys foot and back into his arms, a renegade band player comes onto the field, the referee forgets to duck, a player gets hit in the eye with a penalty flag loaded with BBs, a fumble by a QB is really a "tuck," the opposing coach was secretly videotaping your practices, the Statue of Liberty actually works to win a Bowl game, the FG goes wide right, there were angels in the outfield, .....
Part of making the right call is to know that you cannot control every factor involved in a given play at a given time in a given game on any given Sunday. That's why you don't call a QB sneak when you have more than a yard to go. That's why you punt on 4th and 2 from your own 28 when you're winning by 6 with two minutes left and your opponent only has one timeout.
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Part of making the right call is to know that you cannot control every factor involved in a given play at a given time in a given game on any given Sunday. That's why you don't call a QB sneak when you have more than a yard to go. That's why you punt on 4th and 2 from your own 28 when you're winning by 6 with two minutes left and your opponent only has one timeout.
I agree. I also agree that coaches should go for it more on fourth and short, but not at the end of the game on a short field. My ideal fourth and short situation is somewhere between the 50 and the 35 yard line in my opponents territory. That is where the fourth and short situation has the most to gain and the least to lose. In those situations, by going for it and losing you lose only the 20-30 yard field position advantage that you would have gained via punting and by going for it and gaining you play psychological warfare on the opponents defense that anything on the other side of the 50 is 4 down football. That really takes the air out of their sails when they make a stop on 3rd and short only to be told that they arent done yet, they have to do it again.
But fourth and short deep in your territory is a tremendous risk. In this case the reward would have been great too, but I still would have punted.
And yes. If I were a special teams coach I would have my return men take a knee more often in the end zone. I would tell them that if they take a football out of the end zone then they better make it past the 20. If they dont, then they owe me a thousand dollars for every yard they cost the team. If you see a hole, then take it, but to run out of the end zone hoping to recreate the magic you had against the steelers the week before where you were the only touchdown scored by your team in that game, is a selfish play. Take the knee, and give Palmer the extra seconds you would waste running down (likely only making it to the 20 at best given the number of defenders that were there) and let your offense make plays. At worst you go to overtime and win it in overtime. THe bengals have been in overtime before and held their own on defense (just ask Donovan McNabb). That play will make the boneheaded play of the week. Oh, he made the highlight reel for sportscenter all right, just not the one he wanted too.
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Poll: Which Ohio NFL team failed more yesterday?
The Bengals, who fumbled a kickoff to give the game to the Raiders?
The Browns, who committed pass interference on a Hailmary to give the game to the Lions?
I'd say the Bengals, simply because of the height from which they fell. I'd say it is worse for a 7-2 team that is contending for a bye in the first round of the playoffs to make a mistake and fall to a 2-7 team, then it is for a 1-8 team to make a critical mistake against another 1-8 team. The Lions/Browns game had zero implications for playoffs or anything, but it was still pretty much epic fail.
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Browns - Mangini had a chance at minor redemption, then messed it up...
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I don't know if beating the Lions could qualify as redemption, minor or otherwise.
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They scored points, that is cause for celebration.
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The Browns scored 24 points and led by three touchdowns after the first quarter. They did not score another touchdown until, what, six minutes left in the game?
Browns fail super-hard for letting THAT lead slide away against THAT team, and showing zero ability to adjust either on offense or defense, whereas the otherwise hapless Lions did both.
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Part of making the right call is to know that you cannot control every factor involved in a given play at a given time in a given game on any given Sunday. That's why you don't call a QB sneak when you have more than a yard to go. That's why you punt on 4th and 2 from your own 28 when you're winning by 6 with two minutes left and your opponent only has one timeout.
I agree partly... but you don't make calls based on the fact that it could go wrong. You make a call based on if it will PROBABLY work. And it should have. Poor execution.
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I agree partly... but you don't make calls based on the fact that it could go wrong. You make a call based on if it will PROBABLY work. And it should have. Poor execution.
I disagree completely. ;)
"Probably" is not good enough in that situation.
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I agree partly... but you don't make calls based on the fact that it could go wrong. You make a call based on if it will PROBABLY work. And it should have. Poor execution.
I disagree completely. ;)
"Probably" is not good enough in that situation.
then every play is a probably. there's just no way you can get around execution. everybody makes mistakes.
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then every play is a probably. there's just no way you can get around execution. everybody makes mistakes.
Which only proves my point that Bill's call in that situation was the wrong call. "Probably" is good enough after you pass midfield, and in many other situations. "Probably" was not good enough on 4th and 2 from your own 28 when you are winning by 6 with only two minutes left and your opponent only has one timeout.
It seems that neither of you are willing to accept that the situation matters in these kind of decisions. I will never agree with your philosophy, so you may as well let it go.
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then every play is a probably. there's just no way you can get around execution. everybody makes mistakes.
Which only proves my point that Bill's call in that situation was the wrong call. "Probably" is good enough after you pass midfield, and in many other situations. "Probably" was not good enough on 4th and 2 from your own 28 when you are winning by 6 with only two minutes left and your opponent only has one timeout.
It seems that neither of you are willing to accept that the situation matters in these kind of decisions. I will never agree with your philosophy, so you may as well let it go.
We're not discussing philosophy. We're discussing statistics. Cold, emotionless, objective numbers. ;)
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Well if you are trying to go the "numbers don't lie" route, then first take a look at the government's accounting records, then visit a man named Madoff.
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So the Onion had a great quote today that sums up the incident pretty well:
"Poll: 3.1% of NFL coaches would go for it on 4th and 2 on their own 28."
The accompanying article was actually rather humorous.
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So the Onion had a great quote today that sums up the incident pretty well:
"Poll: 3.1% of NFL coaches would go for it on 4th and 2 on their own 28."
The accompanying article was actually rather humorous.
You know, that's pretty amazing if not coincidental. 3.1% of NFL coaches would also go for it on 4th and 26 against the Packers in a playoff game. ;)
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Lovie Smith,
It's 4th and inches. You are down by 17 points. Your best chance of winning is scoring points AND keeping the ball out of Favre's hands. Your team is 4-6. Your season is basically over if you lose. GO FOR IT!!!
Sincerely,
Someone with common sense
Flippin' idiot sends out the punting team. My Viking fan buddy and I high five, agree the game is over, and head to the kitchen to make a turkey sandwich.
We also enjoyed seeing the Manning face for a half. ;)
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I guess I'm off to watch Charlie Brown now, thanks a lot STAMP ;)
I agree, that was a pretty bad call by Lovie, I think he probably gets the ax after the season. - Maybe he can go take Tom Cable's Job.
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Lovie Smith,
It's 4th and inches. You are down by 17 points. Your best chance of winning is scoring points AND keeping the ball out of Favre's hands. Your team is 4-6. Your season is basically over if you lose. GO FOR IT!!!
Sincerely,
Someone with common sense
Flippin' idiot sends out the punting team. My Viking fan buddy and I high five, agree the game is over, and head to the kitchen to make a turkey sandwich.
We also enjoyed seeing the Manning face for a half. ;)
Of course that decision would be very complicated given the fact that any attempt at a first down has to penetrate a wall of Williamses...But I agree, I was both surprised and relieved when I saw the punting unit come out.
In other news, how many DE's get called for illegal forward pass? Jared Allen does. I thought that it was absolutely hilarious, after I was done being horrified, thinking he might have just fumbled the ball.
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I agree, that was a pretty bad call by Lovie, I think he probably gets the ax after the season.
Actually, that's pretty unlikely because it would be an $11 million buy-out for the Bears to pay...I doubt Bears' ownership will be shelling out that much money (not to mention having to give the next coach a contract) to get rid of Smith.
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I dunno, Notre Dame just paid $18 million to fire a .500 coach with the single best graduation rate in college football.
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I agree, that was a pretty bad call by Lovie, I think he probably gets the ax after the season.
Actually, that's pretty unlikely because it would be an $11 million buy-out for the Bears to pay...I doubt Bears' ownership will be shelling out that much money (not to mention having to give the next coach a contract) to get rid of Smith.
How can you fire a coach who took a team to the superbowl just a few years ago with REX GROSSMAN as the QB? That in and of itself is probably the single greatest feat of coaching in the history of coaching!
all kidding aside, I think the pressure on coaches to achieve immediately is wrong. Coaching to make a team effective over the long term takes a long time to build.
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I think it's worse in college football when coaches sometimes only get three years. It's happened multiple times at Notre Dame. It's only after five years that you really have all your own players in there, and no more excuses after that.
I imagine Rodriguez will keep his job at The State Up North, but the fact that people are calling for his head after two years is somewhat astonishing.
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I think college football coaches have about 3 years to show progress. The U of MN is going through this right now as we have a coach whose teams have shown glimpses of being pretty good, but overall have been underachieving in his first 3 years. Most people seem to think next season will be his "make or break" season.
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Lovey is a defensive coach. The Bears have gotten worse on defense the past 2-3 years. If you aren't able to get the team to perform well in the area you specialize in then I think there is plenty of reason to be fired.
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I think college football coaches have about 3 years to show progress. The U of MN is going through this right now as we have a coach whose teams have shown glimpses of being pretty good, but overall have been underachieving in his first 3 years. Most people seem to think next season will be his "make or break" season.
I agree with this, unless we get blown out or shut out in whichever Bowl game we play. Then I think Brewster has a legitimate chance of getting shown the door. He certainly won't have the support of the student body, which is already waning.
But back to the NFL: I believe the Saints just left no question that they are the best team in the NFL. The Colts had an impressive comeback yesterday, but the Saints completely dominated a really good team.
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There are still 2 undefeated teams left.
Colts
Saints
My rankings
1. Saints -Statement Game. They did it with the Run, they did it with the Air and they did it with the defense. The most complete team in the NFL
2. Vikings -Looking like one of the best teams in the Land. Definitely a more solid team than my #3
3. Colts -Dropped because of poor run offense and suspect defense. They are winning only because of #18.
4. San Diego- Doing Work out west. This is a team no one wants to play at this time.
5. Cincinnati- Sweeping the AFC North. Definitely looking to play for home field advantage and put pressure on the Colts.
6. Dallas - I am still not loving this team but they find ways to win
7. Arizona - It is only going to get tougher from here on out
8. Philadelphia even more *yawn* than Dallas. But they have been known to make runs late in the season....
9. Tennessee -This team is 5-0 and likely has the best chance to defeat the colts in the games that are left.
10. Green Bay - Defeating the Hapless lions doesnt win you many points...but it does get you into my top 10
Some Random Comments about this week:
Tennessee looked scarry good. This is a team that has been transformed. After a 6-0 start this team could go 10-6.
Drew Brees is now in a two way tie with Favre in my vote for League MVP. Manning is third ahead of Chris Johnson. Brees is playing the best football of his life. And that is saying something about a guy who threw for over 5000 yards just last year...
The Vikings are making me wonder how they ever got beat by Denver Pittsburg...How did that happen anyway?
The saints definitely have the easiest road to an undefeated season, but I have to say that the colts have the easiest road to the superbowl. The saints have to go through Minnesota while the Colts only have to go through Cincinnati (or San Diego) The two big Nemeses's's's (Nemesi?) for the Colts (pats and Steelers) may not even make the playoffs now... (and even if they do, they may not be able to make it out of their opening rounds...)
Does anyone think that with the coming NFL policy regarding Concussions that Having a team that depends LESS on the quarterback may be a good thing? Now all of a sudden the Miami Dolphins look like they are ahead of the curve in that regard...Do they even have a Quarterback in Miami?
I think Percy Harvin is the prohibitive favorite for ROY. But I also think that if Massaquoi had someone who could even complete a pass.....
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Tennessee looked scarry good. This is a team that has been transformed. After a 6-0 start this team could go 10-6.
That wouldn't seem very good. ;) But I know what you were obviously trying to say, and I agree.
Drew Brees is now in a two way tie with Favre in my vote for League MVP. Manning is third ahead of Chris Johnson. Brees is playing the best football of his life. And that is saying something about a guy who threw for over 5000 yards just last year...
Favre, Brees, and Manning should just have some kind of Round Robin Rock, Paper, Scissors competition for the MVP.
The Vikings are making me wonder how they ever got beat by Denver...How did that happen anyway?
It didn't happen. The Vikes lost to Pittsburgh because the refs called a nonexistent tripping call, and Favre had a few moments of being less than superb. It was a very winnable game for the Vikes up until the last few minutes.
The saints definitely have the easiest road to an undefeated season, but I have to say that the colts have the easiest road to the superbowl. The saints have to go through Minnesota while the Colts only have to go through Cincinnati (or San Diego) The two big Nemeses's's's (Nemesi?) for the Colts (pats and Steelers) may not even make the playoffs now... (and even if they do, they may not be able to make it out of their opening rounds...)
I probably shouldn't comment for fear of a Jinx, but I'd have to say that I wouldn't like to see a Vikings/Packers playoff game. Beating a team three times in a season simply can't be easy, and considering how the Vikings would have gotten to that point (with Favre) it would be even more difficult I think.
Does anyone think that with the coming NFL policy regarding Concussions that Having a team that depends LESS on the quarterback may be a good thing? Now all of a sudden the Miami Dolphins look like they are ahead of the curve in that regard...Do they even have a Quarterback in Miami?
They have several. Whether they have a STARTER is the question.
I think Percy Harvin is the prohibitive favorite for ROY. But I also think that if Massaquoi had someone who could even complete a pass.....
Prohibitive? Every time I see him play (every week) I become more convinced that he's a shoe-in. Harvin and Rice are getting Vikings fans to relive the glory days of Carter and Moss.
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The Vikings are making me wonder how they ever got beat by Denver...How did that happen anyway?
It didn't happen. The Vikes lost to Pittsburgh because the refs called a nonexistent tripping call, and Favre had a few moments of being less than superb. It was a very winnable game for the Vikes up until the last few minutes.
*Doh* I knew that, I just got all corn-fused about teams.... what a dolt I am.
ANd I dont know about Shoe-in for harvin. Isn't Ray Rice in Baltimore a Rookie? He is having a good year...
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The stuff above in red is your words I didn't want to keep typing quote unquote. ;D
1. Saints -Statement Game. They did it with the Run, they did it with the Air and they did it with the defense. The most complete team in the NFL
Yeah... they're good, nuff said.
2. Vikings -Looking like one of the best teams in the Land. Definitely a more solid team than my #3
Brett Favre was not in this analysis. Another GREAT game, getting higher and higher above Manning this season. ;)
3. Colts -Dropped because of poor run offense and suspect defense. They are winning only because of #18.
Agreed. Even Marvin Harrison hasn't been playing as well.
4. San Diego- Doing Work out west. This is a team no one wants to play at this time.
Have you seen who they've beaten? Raiders, Chiefs, Raiders, Chiefs, Broncos? Come on, they have to beat at least a team with a positive record (they did beat the Broncos and that was a great game).
5. Cincinnati- Sweeping the AFC North. Definitely looking to play for home field advantage and put pressure on the Colts.
What about them Bengals!?!?!?!!?
6. Dallas - I am still not loving this team but they find ways to win
Yeah.... they just don't seem good to me. I don't see them winning a big game, especially against some tough teams rising this season.
7. Arizona - It is only going to get tougher from here on out
Eh.... I don't see them going to the big game again.
8. Philadelphia even more *yawn* than Dallas. But they have been known to make runs late in the season....
They are a great comeback team and I wouldn't put it past them... I agree with this assesment.
9. Tennessee -This team is 5-0 and likely has the best chance to defeat the colts in the games that are left.
Vince Young for the win! Seriously... is it me or is he a good, consistent quarterback? :D
10. Green Bay - Defeating the Hapless lions doesnt win you many points...but it does get you into my top 10
HAHAHHAHAH. Thank you! Thank you! I knew they'd get on people's lists! And Driver is a beast! And that defense knows how to intercept!
Tennessee looked scarry good. This is a team that has been transformed. After a 6-0 start this team could go 10-6.
They had a 6-0 Start? ;) But I think they'll end 9-7. They will probably lose one with Young at the helm.
Drew Brees is now in a two way tie with Favre in my vote for League MVP. Manning is third ahead of Chris Johnson. Brees is playing the best football of his life. And that is saying something about a guy who threw for over 5000 yards just last year...
Yep. He's good. I'd still give it to Favre... but Brees isn't doing much wrong these days.
The Vikings are making me wonder how they ever got beat by Denver...How did that happen anyway?
Well they didn't get beat by Denver. That WOULD never happen. ;) But yeah, they're good.
The saints definitely have the easiest road to an undefeated season, but I have to say that the colts have the easiest road to the superbowl. The saints have to go through Minnesota while the Colts only have to go through Cincinnati (or San Diego) The two big Nemeses's's's (Nemesi?) for the Colts (pats and Steelers) may not even make the playoffs now... (and even if they do, they may not be able to make it out of their opening rounds...)
With a backup quarterback Steelers don't look too hot. And yes, Saints are not going to beat the Vikings... although that matchup scares me. Although I think Peterson would tear up the Saint's running game.
Does anyone think that with the coming NFL policy regarding Concussions that Having a team that depends LESS on the quarterback may be a good thing? Now all of a sudden the Miami Dolphins look like they are ahead of the curve in that regard...Do they even have a Quarterback in Miami?
Rule? I must have missed this. Yes, Miami has a quarterback. His name is Ricky Williams. He WILL get a throwing touchdown, mark my words. They should get Tomlinson though, he had a great quarterbacking season in the day (which was a Wednesday by the way). :D
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As a receiver, Percy's got 602 yards and 5 TD's. As a kick returner, he averages 29.8 return yards, and has two touchdowns. He's even rushed a few times, and averages 8.3 yards per carry. So many of his catches have been simply unbelievable, and he is very hard to bring down after the catch.
Also, I just checked, and Ray Rice is a second year, though he is indeed having a great season. I know he was a nightmare for the Vikes in our near miss victory. I guess I haven't heard of any other rookies who are having such an outstanding season. Of course I'm naturally biased as a hard core Vikings fan, but I think my argument is solid.
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Barring injury, I don't foresee anyone overtaking Harvin for Offensive ROY.
I'm biased, but I've also heard this from most of the football commentators--I believe Minn is a more complete team than NO. MN can beat you through the air AND the running game. I'm not sure how the Saints would do IF someone managed to shut down their pass attack (purely hypothetical, but that's the beauty of analysis). Clearly the Saints have a better run game than say the Colts, but I'm not sure the run game could carry the Saints against a quality opponent. Furthermore, I believe the Vikings defense and special teams are better all around than the Saints. Reggie Bush is amazing (as he showed the last time the Saints and Vikes played), but obviously MN will have learned their lesson from last season. Saints kicker missed a <40 yard FG tonight (in a dome). Harvin is electric on kick-offs and the field position game is vital in a match-up between two great teams. Defensively, Antoine Winfield's injury and missed game action could be one of the best things to happen to the Vikes as they will have 5 cornerbacks (when Winfield returns) with extensive game experience, which could prove huge in a potential match-up with the Saints. Vikes also have the premier D-linemen who can disrupt the passing attack of Brees and Co. (as the Giants showed the Pats a couple years ago).
I probably shouldn't comment for fear of a Jinx, but I'd have to say that I wouldn't like to see a Vikings/Packers playoff game. Beating a team three times in a season simply can't be easy, and considering how the Vikings would have gotten to that point (with Favre) it would be even more difficult I think.
Contrary to popular belief, this isn't actually the case. Statistically, a team that beats another team twice in the regular season beats them in the play-offs more often than not. That being said, one of the last times it happened was when GB beat the Vikes twice and then lost in the play-offs to them--ergo why stats can be thrown out the window sometimes.
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and Favre had a few moments of being less than superb.
Hopefully for the Vikings there aren't a few more moments, like there were between 2007-2009. ;)
If anything I'm sure there was at least an eyebrow-raise from Favre last night if he watched what happened to Brady. I think he'll be studying that film a time or two.
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3. Colts -Dropped because of poor run offense and suspect defense. They are winning only because of #18.
Agreed. Even Marvin Harrison hasn't been playing as well.
Yeah, Marvin is really stinking for us this year. Ever notice how he never shows up in the stat line and never gets a highlight on SportsCenter? But then again that could be because he isnt playing for us this year... :P
4. San Diego- Doing Work out west. This is a team no one wants to play at this time.
Have you seen who they've beaten? Raiders, Chiefs, Raiders, Chiefs, Broncos? Come on, they have to beat at least a team with a positive record (they did beat the Broncos and that was a great game).
I understand this...but who do you put in this position..(wait for it...) Dont say the Pack because they have been just as spotty. At least the Chargers are leading their division at the moment...
And to just get a disussion started on ROY
Pierre Garcon has a similar stat line to Harvin with 574 yards and 4 TD's Harvin exceeds him in the Catch to Targeted Ratio and doesnt have any kick return yards but otherwise he does have some similar stats...im just sayin.... ;D
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Pierre Garcon has a similar stat line to Harvin with 574 yards and 4 TD's Harvin exceeds him in the Catch to Targeted Ratio and doesnt have any kick return yards but otherwise he does have some similar stats...im just sayin.... ;D
But he's French. ;)
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Yeah, Marvin is really sucking for us this year. Ever notice how he never shows up in the stat line and never gets a highlight on SportsCenter? But then again that could be because he isnt playing for us this year... :P
Haha I meant Reggie Wayne. ;D
And Percy Harvin wouldn't have his stats and be elligable for rookie of the year if it weren't for Brett Favre. Just saying. ;D
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Yeah, Marvin is really sucking for us this year. Ever notice how he never shows up in the stat line and never gets a highlight on SportsCenter? But then again that could be because he isnt playing for us this year... :P
Haha I meant Reggie Wayne. ;D
And Percy Harvin wouldn't have his stats and be elligable for rookie of the year if it weren't for Brett Favre. Just saying. ;D
and I suppose AP wouldn't either. honestly, Brett Favre isn't so good that he makes the rest of his team good. he's great, and he's got a couple of great players to finish the job.
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Sidney Rice: 369 Yards in 2007, 141 Yards in 2008, already has over 900 yards this season.
Their tight end has a similar progression. Adrian Peterson is the only one who's stats haven't improved because he doesn't get to run as much.
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Here's my power chart. Explanation on for those on top.
1. Colts - I can't find a way to bet against Peyton Manning. And Bill Belichek agrees. That's what people really missed about the call he made. He was scared of giving Peyton a 70 yard drive with a minute left. He had to do anything in his power to not give that man the ball. Manning is too good to be bet against at this point.
2. Vikings - In my opinion, they're far and away the most complete team as long as the Favre throws like this. The question is how long can it last?
3. Saints - I don't really think there this good, but I can't argue with 11-0. Besides, who else would go here?
4. Chargers - They play in a weak division, and they take advantage of it. Rivers is a top 3 quarterback.
5. Cincinnati - When you can run the ball with Larry Johnson, you must be respected.
6. Philadelphia (pending injury reports) - If Westbrook and Jackson can both get on the field within the next week or two, your looking at what is, simply, the single most explosive offense in the league.
7. Denver - They're typically in the game because they're defense is outstanding. Strong defense can make up for a lackluster offense in this case.
8. San Fransisco - This looks ridiculous, but I have faith in Frank Gore and Smith to Davis connection.
9. Titans - How long can the magic last? Plently long when the gameplan is Chris Johnson 25 touches.
10. Steelers - Once Ben returns, they will win. This is a good team held back by questionable play calling.
11. Dallas - Tony Romo isn't a December quarterback. Prove me wrong?
12. New England - Mark my words, the dynasty is crumbling away.
13. Arizona - Warner seems timeless. Will the concussion affect him though?
14. Baltimore - This might be the most inconsistant team I've ever seen. They're so much better than 6-5.
15. Houston - They just have too many offensive weapons, but they can't win every shootout unfortunately.
16. Green Bay - Aaron Rodgers is good, but they couldn't play with thier rival and best compitition. They looked completely outclassed.
17. NYG - This team will come around. They just need a Redskins game.
18. NYJ - It's a shame they can't help Sanchez to succeed more. There's some real potential here though.
19. Jags - I just plain out don't like David Garrard. I've never been sold on him. MJD is a beast though.
20. Atlanta - Turner and Ryan could be out for awhile it seems. Ouch.
21. Miami - No Brown or Pennington equals no playoffs.
22-32. Who cares, most of these teams are hopelessly terrible anyway. Bears are 32 though. Just because.
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8. San Fransisco - This looks ridiculous, but I have faith in Frank Gore and Smith to Davis connection.
The Faith is strong in this one. ;)
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Eagles...the single most explosive offense in the league.
Are you serious??? New Orleans is clearly the most explosive offense in the NFL.
Eagles stats:
Category/NFL Rank
Scoring/7th
Yards per game/11th
Passing yards per game/11th
Rushing yards per game/18th
Even if the Eagles were perfectly healthy, I put at least 5 teams above them in terms of offensive capability.
Pierre Garcon has a similar stat line to Harvin with 574 yards and 4 TD's Harvin exceeds him in the Catch to Targeted Ratio and doesnt have any kick return yards but otherwise he does have some similar stats...im just sayin....
Which is why I have no problem with Garcon being the runner-up Off. RoY ;)
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I am more scared of the Eagles offense than I ever will be of the Saints offense. When fully healthy, they have a a more mobile quarterback, a more consistant single threat from the backfield, two burner wide recievers, and a great tight end. The saints have the bets pocket passer in the game, a 3 man committee in the backfield, and then a bunch of misfits at the wide reciever spots (excepting Colston) who are good because of Brees, not vice verse.
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14. Baltimore - This might be the most inconsistant team I've ever seen. They're so much better than 6-5.
I don't agree with the number, but I do agree with your final statement.
I think one of our BIGGEST problems was Haushka. He lost the game with the Vikings, and he may have lost some other games. So glad he is gone...
The thing with the Ravens is that they have yet to be seriously destroyed in a game. They always come so close to winning, usually losing in the last quarter or something.
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14. Baltimore - This might be the most inconsistant team I've ever seen. They're so much better than 6-5.
I don't agree with the number, but I do agree with your final statement.
I think one of our BIGGEST problems was Haushka. He lost the game with the Vikings, and he may have lost some other games. So glad he is gone...
the game never should have been that close. but it was a heart wrenching moment, so glad he missed...
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I am more scared of the Eagles offense than I ever will be of the Saints offense. When fully healthy, they have a a more mobile quarterback, a more consistant single threat from the backfield, two burner wide recievers, and a great tight end. The saints have the bets pocket passer in the game, a 3 man committee in the backfield, and then a bunch of misfits at the wide reciever spots (excepting Colston) who are good because of Brees, not vice verse.
I can't say I'd take a mobile McNabb over any kind of Drew Brees, nor Westbrook over Tomlinson (assuming you meant Westbrook), nor Celek over Gates. And if the receivers/tight end were as good as advertised, my fantasy team would be doing a lot better this year. I bet on the young Eagles offense and I'm paying the price.
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I can't say I'd take a mobile McNabb over any kind of Drew Brees
I'd take a mobile McNabb over an incapacitated Drew Bress, but that's about it.
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I'd only take McNabb on 4th and 26.
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I'd only take McNabb on 4th and 26.
See, that's when I'd take Brett Favre. ;D
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I'd only take McNabb on 4th and 26.
See, that's when I'd take Brett Favre. ;D
I think even Brett Favre would have taken McNabb:
Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOEq7p4r00U&feature=related#)
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Really? Cause I think McNabb would love to do this, and I think it's over 26 yards too. ;)
Brett Favre Game Winning TD Pass to Greg Lewis..Vikings vs. 49ers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3B7Og-FS0#)
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Anybody else feeling like a conspiracy theorist after the Saints narrow escape versus the 'Skins?
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Anybody else feeling like a conspiracy theorist after the Saints narrow escape versus the 'Skins?
For sure. Either:
A. Roger Goodell wants there to be an undefeated team in his era. So he picked a team from the NFC and the AFC to go undefeated this season, so that they can meet in the Super Bowl and one of them has to take it all.
B. The Skins are just that awful.
I'm inclined to go with B.
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I'd only take McNabb on 4th and 26.
You're a mean one, Mr. Stamp.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus.
You're as charming as an eel.
Mister Sta---amp.
Bringing this up is just cold, cold, cold.
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I watched the ENTIRE Saints game... that receiver should get the MVP for the year. I don't care what else he does... if you strip a ball out of a defender's hand, then run it back to score and tie the game before halftime, you get the MVP. ;D
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Obviously I had to edit this based on what happened on SNF. That was a very surprising outcome to say the least...
There are still 2 undefeated teams left.
Colts
Saints (barely)
My rankings
1. Colts Pending tonight) -I liked seeing some signs of life in the Russhing game and the Russing defense. Holding Chris Johnson to JUST 100 Yards is a win in my book
2. Saints- Dropped because of the close one to Washington. Lets see if that was just a emotional let down or whether Washington exposed some weaknesses in the Saints
3. Vikings -but they should have no problems tonight. They had problems, and now the game vs. Cincinnati doesnt look so open and shut...
4. Cincinnati- Only adding more distance in the AFC North. 9-3 nothing to sneeze at.
5. San Diego- Doing Work out west. Still getting it done... Although the Browns arent exactly a quality opponenet
6.Arizona -but a loss to the Vikes is nothing to get down about. All I have to say is that my foot does not taste good...it need some salt. That was impressive
7. Philadelphia Is this Philadelphias way of Waking up in the second half of the season? Because I am wide awake after their dismantling of Atlanta
8. Jacksonville Making steady progress and putting away a tough Houston Team today
9. Dallas - Woah! What happened today? Is this a bad day for the Cowboys or a good day for the Giants?
10. Green Bay/Baltimore - Pending Monday Night's game, the winner takes this spot
First five out:
11. Tennessee -This team is 5-1 and a loss to the colts is nothing to get down about.
12. Packers/Baltimore Loser of MNF goes here
13. Dolphins That wildcat just wont go away...
14. Jets making gains on the Pats!
15. Steelers The Steelers get it by default due to a 6-6 record.
Bottom 5
27. Redskins Showed sparks of life against a tough Saints team
28. Detroit This is a great team masaquerading as a loser
29. Kansas City Not really much hope for this team anymore
30. Cleveland Almost there, but not quite...maybe if they had Braylon Edwards....
31. Tampa Bay ugh
32. St Louis Double ugh
Some Random Comments about this week:
Lets see if this was just a hiccup by the saints or whether they have some real issues...
The resurgance of Denver could spell trouble for my Colts, and Jacksonvilles steady progress may cause us problems as well...well, who are we kidding, Indy has NEVER been able to contain Maurice Jones Drew...
Aside from todays loss, Tennessee could easily win out thier schedule. a 9-7 Tennessee Team should be a wild card contender
With the Pats loss, I think the AFC East is all balled up in a knot. Miami has the better division record, but they need help...and they have the tougher schedule ahead...But champions are forged in adversity right...
I think the 49'ers are just one more season away from really dominating their divison, and contending for NFC dominance. If Favre comes back (which he really might given the way that team is playing) The 49'ers could be up there with the Vikes and Saints...
..If favre does NOT come back, we will see the Vikes Implode...unless they draft a good QB. Am I Crazy to think that Tim Tebow would be a bad fit for them in Minnesota? Great arm and two serious russhing threats? Plus you team up Harvin and Tebow again? The question is can they trade up to that pick, or could Tebow fall that far? I think he could easily fall that far in the draft but then again, that's just what I think...
Washington, Cleveland, and Detroit are really looking good offensively, they just need to stop giving up points.
I apologize to any Arizona fans for dismissing the Cardinals Chances...
and to any Vikings fans who feel I may have jinxed them... :o The SNF result was not what I expected.
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2. Vikings -Pending tonights game but they should have no problems tonight. Still look like the NFC Team to beat
They had problems tonight.
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Agreed, The main problem was the line play, on both sides of the ball, which lead to Adrian not getting started, meaning that Brett had to throw to win, and Arizona forced him to make those bad throws leading to pics.
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The more and more I watch football, the more I am convinced that games are won and lost on the line of scrimage. The team that controls the line, dictates the direction of the game.
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Another random thought...
Has anyone else noticed that the Vikings offense has transformed itself into a typical Favre offense? No ability to rush, with everything coming down to whether or not Brett is feeling it on the particular day. Seriously, look at the Vikings and AP over the past five or six games and tell me that they don't look like the Packers with Ahman Green or Ryan Grant. AP had what--19 yards on 13 carries? Take away his 11 yard run, and I'll let you do the math.
Minnesota is going to have a tough time making it to the Superbowl if they don't remember how to run the ball.
Crustpope, I really don't see how having a tough time in a trap game means more in your rankings than demolishing New England on the Monday previous. Comparing the New Orleans/New England game to the Indy/New England game, the Saints, I would definitely flip one and two. Struck on account of just seeing the NE/Miami score. Apparently the Colts did some psychological damage to the Patriots.
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Agreed. I know the Vikings are right on the heels of the Saints, but home-field advantage is not going to overcome the fact that the Saints can run it like crazy, and Minnesota apparently cannot.
And Favre's age becomes a factor as the season wears on and he just can't sling it around 45 times a game for 16 games. That's when you need the run the most. Just ask the J-E-T-S.
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AP had what--19 yards on 13 carries? Take away his 11 yard run, and I'll let you do the math.
Er...uh..I can't decide if I should differentiate or use point-slope to solve. ;)
Wow, how about that Packers-Rams Vikings-Cardinals game?!?! :D
Or seriously, Saints?!?! Raiders sweeping Pennsylvania like they're a disoriented Sherman?!?! My boneheaded 49ers and their questionable play-calling?!?! Pats falling?!?! The AFC and NFC East?!?!
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Wow, how about that Packers-Rams Vikings-Cardinals game?!?! :D
:maul:
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I'd only take McNabb on 4th and 26.
You're a mean one, Mr. Stamp.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus.
You're as charming as an eel.
Mister Sta---amp.
Bringing this up is just cold, cold, cold.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthm-a03.yimg.com%2Fimage%2Fd7d485c394828028&hash=eea98f3fdee61bb54172cc397e52a42cb142b0b6)
What?!? I like both teams. Good color for their uniforms. ;)
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The Vikings are down by 17, 10 minutes left in the 4th quarter... and they punt!? You just don't do that! Especially against a team that was so strong on the run that night and will be able to easily run down the clock. Those calls made me pretty mad.
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Apparently the Colts did some psychological damage to the Patriots.
Rather, the players no longer trust their coach.
Spygate got everyone else to not trust him, but he finished the job with that call against Indy. Bill only proved that he is not the genius he has been portrayed to be. Instead, it seems that it is easier to look like a genius when you are cheating.
For the record, I can be found quoted a long time ago on these boards as saying that Bill needs to go. I think New England needs a fresh start. Right now we are the team that the rest of the country is loving see fall. That stigma is Bill's fault, Brady's arrogance aside.
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Interesting. You are one of very, very few Patriot fans I know that wants to get rid of Bill. I started the decade really pulling for the Patriots against the Rams. They were the underdog at the time and it was a huge upset. But when they became a powerhouse I couldn't wait for them to lose and for Bill to fail. But more recently I have begun to be impressed with some of Bill's play-calling and tactics. Not always. I do despise cheaters. But I have liked how he has handled certain things, like the Brady injury. I don't pull for them to lose quite so much anymore. Especially when the two teams I really enjoy see losing, Cowboys and Steelers, both lost yesterday. The 49ers losing (and losing because of stupid play-calling) took some of the enjoyment out of it though. :D
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Interesting. You are one of very, very few Patriot fans I know that wants to get rid of Bill.
Are they bandwagon Pats fans? Have you been to a New England state recently? You'll have to talk to my humongous family of lifetime Pats fans. ;)
But I have liked how he has handled certain things, like the Brady injury. I don't pull for them to lose quite so much anymore.
I think that may have had more to do with Matt Cassell. Everyone likes the underdog, and Cassell fit the bill. How could you not be sympathetic to a talented athlete who always had to be the backup to a bigger star?
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HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!
Good fight steelers.
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Steeler fail.
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Steeler fail.
Each week, the fact that half of the Vikings losses were to the Steelers becomes more painful. It's not just that they're losing, it's who they're losing to. Ravens and Bengals? Sure. Raiders and Browns? Uhhhh....
Gotta love the NFL.
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so lightning ninja... how about them bengals? ;D
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I know its kinda like a senior beating up a freshman and taking his lunch money, but go Ravens!
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Antoine Winfield is a beast. ;D
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The Bengals play like that in the Playoffs, then they won't need to worry about Indianapolis, because they will never MAKE it to Indianapolis...
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so lightning ninja... how about them bengals? ;D
How about them Bengals!?!? Yeah, not too great. Although they were against the team I predict will win the Super Bowl, against who I believe is the greatest quarterback of all time, and the best running back of his era. So it's expected. ;D
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We're not discussing philosophy. We're discussing statistics. Cold, emotionless, objective numbers. ;)
I was reminded of your earlier quote when I read this quote on CBS from Bill's "defense" of Randy Moss:
"You know how I feel about stats," Belichick said. "Stats are for losers. Final scores are for winners."
So, in retrospect, Bill acknowledges that his 4th & 2 decision makes him a "loser."
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We're not discussing philosophy. We're discussing statistics. Cold, emotionless, objective numbers. ;)
I was reminded of your earlier quote when I read this quote on CBS from Bill's "defense" of Randy Moss:
"You know how I feel about stats," Belichick said. "Stats are for losers. Final scores are for winners."
So, in retrospect, Bill acknowledges that his 4th & 2 decision makes him a "loser."
:rollin:
That's a good one! The penultimate irony!!
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Anyone besides STAMP see that game last night? What a dominant performance by San Francisco! They should Definitely be contending next year for the NFC.
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I saw it, I honestly think they could have been contending this year too, 6 of their loses came by a combined 17 points, I mean, thats crazy close, Their loss to the Vikings completely demoralized them, and so they forgot how to finish for a few weeks, now they're back on track.
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It also showed just how inconsistent Arizona is and I feel justified in saying the Vikings loss to them was simply a fluke.
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It also showed just how inconsistent Arizona is and I feel justified in saying the Vikings loss to them was simply a fluke.
I agree. And the 49ers loss to the Vikings was a fluke, too. ;)
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Yup, an old school Brett Favre engineered fluke ;)
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It also showed just how inconsistent Arizona is and I feel justified in saying the Vikings loss to them was simply a fluke.
I agree. And the 49ers loss to the Vikings was a fluke, too. ;)
False. It was destiny.
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If you look at the entire season as a whole package, then yes, Minnesota is a better team then San Fran.
But one-on-one, it took a Brett Favre-HoF-best-arm-ever-engineering-fluke (see, I was nice and didn't say "lucky") of a TD pass to beat the visiting 49ers AT HOME, and Gore was injured. These same 49ers swept the Cardinals in convincing fashion...you know, that team that humbled the Vikings last week.
On a neutral site or at Candlestick, the 49ers would beat the Vikings easily. Maybe next year the schedulers will help out and schedule Minnesota at San Fran. Oh wait! Brett will be in Miami at that point. Guess we'll never find out. ;)
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Nah, Brett doesn't want to play for Miami, I've heard the Bears are looking for a good QB - Then Favre could beat the Pack and the Vikings!
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Right now Favre is busy investigating any number of teams he could retire from next year.
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On a neutral site or at Candlestick, the 49ers would beat the Vikings easily
Did you forget that the 49ers have lost to both Green Bay and Seattle, two teams the Vikings have beaten pretty decisively?
Did you also forget that the 49ers got crushed at home by a middle of the road Atlanta team?
Furthermore, it took a blocked FG return for a TD for the 49ers to even be close...so when you talk about "fluky" plays, don't forget about that one.
::) No offense, but that statement is absolutely wrong.
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Also, the Vikings are gonna win the super bowl, so.... hopefully they play the Chargers there because I'm really not scared of the chargers... they still haven't played a good team... this week will be the decisive factor... if they beat the Bengals they're good.
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On a neutral site or at Candlestick, the 49ers would beat the Vikings easily
Did you forget that the 49ers have lost to both Green Bay and Seattle, two teams the Vikings have beaten pretty decisively?
Did you also forget that the 49ers got crushed at home by a middle of the road Atlanta team?
Furthermore, it took a blocked FG return for a TD for the 49ers to even be close...so when you talk about "fluky" plays, don't forget about that one.
::) No offense, but that statement is absolutely wrong.
It's all in matchups. The 49ers match up well against the Vikings, just like they do against the Cardinals. They don't match up well against the Falcons or Packers. I already said looking at the whole season as a complete package Minnesota is better than SF. Shoot, I am not looking forward to this week at Philadelphia. McNabb has always played the 49ers tough. And one final thing: SF has had to play most of their tough opponents on the road whereas Minnesota has had most of their tough opponents at home in their cozy dome. It's definitely THE season for the Vikings. The future is now for them. They have some good teams to go through to complete the mission. The 49ers future is this next decade. I'll trade one year for several. :)
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If the Vikings have had one consistent weakness, it has been the safety play in pass coverage ergo Vernon Davis has a big game against us. I also think last Sunday's game against the Bengals showed just how important Antoine Winfield is to our defense and I truly believe the AZ game would have been very different with him in the line-up. Not saying we win, because we struggled in other areas too, but we would definitely would have been in better shape.
As for your Niners, I agree they are on the upswing. I'm not sold on Smith as a starting QB though and I'm not sure SF defense and running game are to the point where they will be able to contend with just an average QB. Smith has potential, but still has a lot to prove.
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Maybe Favre could rangle a trade over to the Niners... After all, they've got everything ;) cept him ;)
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Right now Favre is busy investigating any number of teams he could retire from next year.
Thread wyn.
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Wow. Finals have been keeping me too busy to realize that the Cowboys beat the Saints on Thursday night. The Vikings still have to depend on either the Panthers or the Bucs to beat the Saints in order to have a shot at homefield advantage, but hey, a guy can hope. This makes the Saints near-miss at Washington all the more painful.
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I didn't even realize the Cowboys PLAYED the Saints on Thursday night; everyone was talking about the Colts game.
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Ah, never mind. It was last night, not Thursday night, I read the article wrong. The Colts/Jags was the only game on Thursday. Still, I'm not disappointed in the outcome at all.
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I must admit, I was pretty shocked at the Saints-Cowboys action. I thought that the saints had a great shot at running the table.
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Go Ravens!
Also, LOLOLOL to the broncos.
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Ah, never mind. It was last night, not Thursday night, I read the article wrong.
I went and checked the box scores and STILL did not pick up when the game was played. I just saw the final and assumed your Thursday statement was accurate. :-[
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Minnesota better hope they don't play any of their playoff games on a Sunday night.
I'm sure glad the Vikings extended Childress's contract when they had a chance. :P
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Also, the Vikings are gonna win the super bowl, so
hope they dpn't play panthers ;)
Anyway I like the Vikings and chose preseason vikings vs colts in super bowl, but after that beat last night ouch. C'mon vikings Saints just lost and you blew it on that one. As for SD good game against Bengals but I am not sold on them being good. Easiest schedule by far and before the game even started the Bengals said they were not wanting to play SD, of course they were gonna lose to them. I am sorry for my Jets though :(.
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Minnesota better hope they don't play any of their playoff games on a Sunday night.
Just like the Patriots are hoping they don't have any Playoff games on the road. ;)
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ouch... to the PANTHERS!? I still think the Vikings are a solid team though and still predict the superbowl, only because the Saints also showed a vulnerable side this week.
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Wow, it's beginning to look a lot like
Chri...a Chargers-Eagles Super Bowl. ;)
I think it's a highly probably scenario. But then, there are actually a lot of probable scenarios for an NFC participant. It can come down to Saints/Vikings/Eagles/Cardinals, whereas it looks pretty obvious it will be Colts or Chargers in the AFC.
Big question: now that the Saints lost, do you think the Colts will go for 16-0 now?
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Yeah, last night's game was painful to watch. I really hope the Vikes can get it together before next week, because I'm sure the Bears would LOVE to ruin our chances of getting the 1st round bye, and the Eagles don't seem to be letting up at all. Next week's game is critical.
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Dont you all forget about the Ravens as well... they're still a potential threat to everyone else. :)
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Dont you all forget about the Ravens as well... they're still a potential threat to everyone else. :)
Bingo! Don't forget they were a horrible call away from being in the Super Bowl... I will never forget how we were robbed.... What a horrible call on the TD reversal.
I didn't even realize the Cowboys PLAYED the Saints on Thursday night; everyone was talking about the Colts game.
I lauged at this one. 8)
It also showed just how inconsistent Arizona is and I feel justified in saying the Vikings loss to them was simply a fluke.
Just like that loss to Carolina, with an injured DeAngelo... ::)
So what about Jerome Harrison? His stat line made me want to wash my eyes out with sulfuric acid.
Kirk
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Dont you all forget about the Ravens as well... they're still a potential threat to everyone else. :)
Bingo! Don't forget they were a horrible call away from being in the Super Bowl... I will never forget how we were robbed.... What a horrible call on the TD reversal.
The ravens have had a lot robbed from them... Haushka robbed us two wins, several bad ref calls have robbed us games.... Also, doesn't it seem like the refs hates the ravens? They could like, pile into our kicker, and they get oh... 5 yards. Ravens do it and get 20 yards, first down, and loss of the rest of our timeouts... lol.
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Dont you all forget about the Ravens as well... they're still a potential threat to everyone else. :)
Bingo! Don't forget they were a horrible call away from being in the Super Bowl... I will never forget how we were robbed.... What a horrible call on the TD reversal.
The ravens have had a lot robbed from them... Haushka robbed us two wins, several bad ref calls have robbed us games.... Also, doesn't it seem like the refs hates the ravens? They could like, pile into our kicker, and they get oh... 5 yards. Ravens do it and get 20 yards, first down, and loss of the rest of our timeouts... lol.
That's just the NFL continuing to eke out punishment against Modell. ;)
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I think it's a highly probably scenario. But then, there are actually a lot of probable scenarios for an NFC participant. It can come down to Saints/Vikings/Eagles/Cardinals, whereas it looks pretty obvious it will be Colts or Chargers in the AFC.
I think you are undercounting contenders on the NFC side. Three or four weeks ago, it looked like the Vikings and Saints had elevated themselves well above the rest of the NFC. Now it looks like they've come back to the pack a bit (ha, a 13-1 team back to the pack), whereas Green Bay and Dallas seemed to have stepped up their play. It is increasingly looking like the NFC might well come down to who gets hot down the stretch.
Chargers vs. Colts is going to be a good game.
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Chargers vs. Colts is going to be a good game.
Unfortunately, that game will not occur this season. One of them is going to have to play the Patriots and will lose. :o
The Patriots are just dogging it until the playoffs.They especially laid low against the Colts and Saints, just to ignite the pride that would come before the fall (the Patriots have experience with this kind of fall). So far that worked against the Saints, and it will work against the Colts very soon. ;)
The Colts have been testing a similar approach by dogging it until the fourth quarter throughout the year, but the Patriots have the premier dogger in Randy Moss. :P
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The Colts have been testing a similar approach by dogging it until the fourth quarter throughout the year, but the Patriots have the premier dogger in Randy "I play when I want to play" Moss. :P
Fixed for greater emphasis of point.
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The ravens have had a lot robbed from them... Haushka robbed us two wins, several bad ref calls have robbed us games.... Also, doesn't it seem like the refs hates the ravens? They could like, pile into our kicker, and they get oh... 5 yards. Ravens do it and get 20 yards, first down, and loss of the rest of our timeouts... lol.
Typical statement coming from you mr. excuse, lol. Anyway Colts are the team to beat but I do not think the Patriots or Chargers will beat them. I think it will be Colts vs an unexpected team for AFC championship and Vikings vs Packers for NFC championship and Packers vs Colts for Super Bowl. I know that goes against what I said pre season but I think Packers are too hot right now and want revenge, for the third time, against Brett Favre.
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you all don't even consider the threat from Music City, the Tennessee Titans they can still win the wildcard
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you all don't even consider the threat from Music City, the Tennessee Titans they can still win the wildcard
Only if they win out and other people lose. Dont get me wrong, I think Tenessee is playing the best football of any team not named the Colts, but they will need a lot of help making it to the playoffs and I dont think they can do it.
In the AFC I see the wildcards being Baltimore and probably Jax or Miami.
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you all don't even consider the threat from Music City
Correct.
Anybody else following tonight's game with the amazing powerhouse known as the Washington Redskins? They've managed a whopping -14 yards in the first half!
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Dont get me wrong, I think Tenessee is playing the best football of any team not named the Colts
Chargers would be mad.
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The ravens have had a lot robbed from them... Haushka robbed us two wins, several bad ref calls have robbed us games.... Also, doesn't it seem like the refs hates the ravens? They could like, pile into our kicker, and they get oh... 5 yards. Ravens do it and get 20 yards, first down, and loss of the rest of our timeouts... lol.
Or maybe your ravens just commit a TON of penalties. Like the hit on Chad OchoCinco. ;) They are #1 in both penalties committed and yards given by penalties... that's not all the refs. If the Ravens don't start playing cleaner football they won't get to the Super Bowl.
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Dont get me wrong, I think Tenessee is playing the best football of any team not named the Colts
Chargers would be mad.
Then the Chargers are welcome to prove me wrong by beating Tennesee. They get their chance this week.
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Then the Chargers are welcome to prove me wrong by beating Tennesee. They get their chance this week.
I say Chargers 35-17.
And to the people saying Ravens are a top team, ninja hit it on the head. A top team does not commit penalties like they do.
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A top team does not commit penalties like they do.
What do you mean? Green Bay is the most penalized team in the NFL and....
Sigh. You are absolutely correct.
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HEY NOW! Also I think it's the Ravens... when they played two weeks ago Packers were 2nd and Ravens were 1st... has that changed?
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HEY NOW! Also I think it's the Ravens... when they played two weeks ago Packers were 2nd and Ravens were 1st... has that changed?
Penalties:
1. Packers 109
2. Bengals 101
3. Eagles 100
3. Cowboys 100
Penalty Yards:
1. Packers 988
2. Ravens 944
3. Eagles 834
4. Cardinals 795
There seem to be a few "top ten" teams in those stats.
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Okay so I'm wrong... but whatever. ::)
You know YMT, you've corrected me quite a lot today... you wanna fight? ;)
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You know YMT, you've corrected me quite a lot today... you wanna fight? ;)
I will have to decline your generous offer. I'm old, and I saw what happened to the Talmaranian King in Prince Caspian when he fought a youngun'. If we were fighting over mint ice cream, that would be different.
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Hehe... okay so how about them bengals? Okay yeah no caps or extra !!!!!s because honestly... they're starting to let me down. >:( >:(
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You know YMT, you've corrected me quite a lot today... you wanna fight? ;)
I will have to decline your generous offer. I'm old, and I saw what happened to the Talmaranian King in Prince Caspian when he fought a youngun'.
Wasn't he actually killed by an adult? I'm not saying that means something... but wasn't he?
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Wasn't he actually killed by an adult? I'm not saying that means something... but wasn't he?
I wasn't talking about the getting killed part. What are you suggesting about lightningninja? :o
I was talking about the whole getting beat up until I have to ask for a respite. Sure I would have gotten a few good shots in using years of violent movie scene ideas, but eventually my age and his ninja skills would have had me limping back to my corner. ;)
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Again, I'm not saying that means something...
For some reason, I was thinking that LN is 17. Perhaps he's an adult and I goofed, but regardless, the Narnian killer wasn't a youngun'.
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Anybody else following tonight's game with the amazing powerhouse known as the Washington Redskins? They've managed a whopping -14 yards in the first half!
We are just playing for a better draft pick now... ::)
My team is at one its lowest points in franchise history. Thankfully, we have a GM for the first time in 10 years, instead of a "Yes Man" in an executive blah blah position and a great chance to have Shanahan as our next coach. Our first round pick from last year, Orakpo, is panning out and Fred Davis has emerged as a playmaker. But the list of bads are so much more...
Kirk
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Again, I'm not saying that means something...
For some reason, I was thinking that LN is 17. Perhaps he's an adult and I goofed, but regardless, the Narnian killer wasn't a youngun'.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I thought LN was a teenager also. In Prince Caspian, the Talmaranian king fights the teenage Peter. They both take a beating, but Peter would have killed him if the king had not asked for a respite. They had two respites I think. Anyway, the king goes limping back to his corner complaining to his companions. Eventually, Peter wins, but doesn't kill the king. He offers the king's life to Caspian, who also chooses not to kill him. When the king returns to his companions, one of his advisors (generals maybe?) then kills him with one of Susan's arrows to make it look like the Narnians killed him.
So, although I agree that an adult eventually kills the king, I was referring only to the fight between the aging king and the teenage Peter.
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ANd this has to to with the way my colts are destroying every team they play because....?
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ANd this has to to with the way my colts are destroying every team they play because....?
The Talmaranian king was arrogant and refused to believe that a kid could beat him. Soon the Colts will play a "kid" and lose.
As it is, the Vikings seem to have fallen victim to the "backstabbing." ;)
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ANd this has to to with the way my colts are destroying every team they play because....?
The Talmaranian king was arrogant and refused to believe that a kid could beat him. Soon the Colts will play a "kid" and lose.
As it is, the Vikings seem to have fallen victim to the "backstabbing." ;)
Great segue!
But my Colts are more like the High King Peter than that Talmaranian King.
about the Vikes, with all the shilly shallying about who runs the team in Minnesota, I am now REALLY interested in the Monday night game!
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So, although I agree that an adult eventually kills the king, I was referring only to the fight between the aging king and the teenage Peter.
Eh, that's where I goofed. My bad.
Anywho, I'm expecting tomorrow to be a good game when the Chargers beat the Titans. And I'm not just saying that because Stamp needs Chris Johnson's fantasy stats -- I'd like to see the Chargers have some good playoff position. After all, without a team in L.A., they're all we have left...
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Soon the Colts will play a "kid" and lose.
Mark Sanchez.
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The Titans Lost but Johnson ran for 143 yards and a score. That puts him at 1872 for the year. I think the record is out of reach but a 2000 + yard season is easily within reach for him.
To break the record he would have to rush for 234 in his last game against Seattle. Its not outside of the realm of possibility that he could break it. He already has a 228 yard game this year.
So I guess it is possible that he could break it, just not probable.
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The Packers are in! The Packers are in!
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So, um.. How bout them saints? Who dat?
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The Packers are in! The Packers are in!
Really!? I haven't been keeping track of all of their opponents and stuff.
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My guess on the Chargers-Titans game was almost dead on. I predicted 45-17 Chargers. With the Colts I also said Mark Sanchez would beat them. I am the man.
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Let's start at the top:
Colts: Wishy-washy to me. One week it's go for 16-0, the next it's don't go for it. Very likely a quick playoff exit.
Saints: Defense has awoken from their dream-state and all witnessed the harsh reality. Also a likely quick playoff exit:
Chargers: With LT's and Gates' resurgence, NO ONE wants to play this team!
Vikings: Days of Favre's Lives. The Young and the Senseless. Go ahead and pick your own soap opera name.
Eagles: After the first half of the Broncos I was thinking they were just as scary as the Chargers. I'm not sure after the second half of that game.
Patriots/Bengals/Cowboys/Packers/Cardinals: All five 10-5 teams have shown brilliance similar to the Chargers. All five teams have also looked like the Lions at times. Maybe one of these teams can catch lightning in a bottle for three playoff games.
The Two AFC Wildcards: The Patriots will thoroughly thrash the #6 seed. The Bengals are an enigma at this point, so their outcome against the #5 seed is a mystery.
Everyone Else: Of the rest, the three teams I like the most to make the jump to the playoffs are the Falcons, the 49ers, and the Favre-led Dolphins. ;)
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Colts: Wishy-washy to me. One week it's go for 16-0, the next it's don't go for it. Very likely a quick playoff exit.
Wishy washy? Have you watched their games this season? Jets played a great game and Colts were up til Peyton came out. Chances are they will make it to the Super Bowl.
Saints: Defense has awoken from their dream-state and all witnessed the harsh reality. Also a likely quick playoff exit:
AS dream does not last 13 or 14 games of the season. Quick playoff exit? Yeah right...
Chargers: With LT's and Gates' resurgence, NO ONE wants to play this team!
This has happened every year with San Diego idk why people make a big deal about them they always lose in the AFC championship or the game before.
Eagles: After the first half of the Broncos I was thinking they were just as scary as the Chargers. I'm not sure after the second half of that game.
This team has been wishy washy beginning of the season but they have really stepped it up past few weeks. One bad half, they still won, but one bad half does not define their team.
Patriots/Bengals/Cowboys/Packers/Cardinals: All five 10-5 teams have shown brilliance similar to the Chargers. All five teams have also looked like the Lions at times. Maybe one of these teams can catch lightning in a bottle for three playoff games.
Not one of these teams has ever looked like the Lions. Maybe they have been beaten badly but that was when Aaron Rodgers threw 3 int's one game and Cardinals had 7 turnovers in one game. Other three might have had a bad game but never like the Lions.
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Colts: Wishy-washy to me. One week it's go for 16-0, the next it's don't go for it. Very likely a quick playoff exit.
I definitely disagree. Like Mr.Hiatus said, the Colts only lost because they are resting and playing very conservative. The Colts would have won if it was a normal game. I can't see how losing won game after taking the starters out qualifies them as a quick exit.
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Vikings: Days of Favre's Lives. The Young and the Senseless. Go ahead and pick your own soap opera name.
It's not just the soap opera and an aging quarterback. Tonight's game ended with a fumble by AP to set up a touchdown thrown over the top of a crispy Antoine Winfield. Although no one can stop the mighty Bears offense (at best you can hope to contain them), the Vikings are misfiring badly on multiple cylinders..
The Vikings are one and done in the playoffs. This is most likely going to happen on the first weekend as Philly will wrap up the #2 seed next week.
Patriots/Bengals/Cowboys/Packers/Cardinals: All five 10-5 teams have shown brilliance similar to the Chargers. All five teams have also looked like the Lions at times. Maybe one of these teams can catch lightning in a bottle for three playoff games.
Not one of these teams has ever looked like the Lions.
I take it you didn't watch the Green Bay/Tampa Bay game.
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wow... way to drop the ball Vikings defense! Brett Favre and Adrian Peterson couldn't have done more! in the second half
Also... The Vikings are looking like a better team. I know it's hard to say that with a loss... I just want to know how much the refs got paid. Did anyone see the pass interference calls? I counted three HORRIBLE calls.
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All the talk in the press this year has been and will be about Favre vs. Rodgers. But I'm really looking forward to Favre vs. Cutler! Probable winner: Vikings
Sheesh! I was wrong again! ;)
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All the talk in the press this year has been and will be about Favre vs. Rodgers. But I'm really looking forward to Favre vs. Cutler! Probable winner: Vikings
Sheesh! I was wrong again! ;)
You failed to factor in the refs who were on the take. ;)
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Sheesh! I was wrong again! ;)
You failed to factor in the refs who were on the take. ;)
Indeed. We should not base our decision as to whether or not we have the gift of prophecy on NFL games. Mr. Hiatus is claiming "man"-hood, but strictly speaking, Mark Sanchez did not beat the Colts. ;D
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I take it you didn't watch the Green Bay/Tampa Bay game.
Take my whole quote next time. I also brought up the Packers one game.
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Overheard on KFAN (TC sports-talk radio) this afternoon... AP is going to miss practice on Thursday and Friday of this week. He was invited to Times Square to help drop the ball on New Years. :D
I take it you didn't watch the Green Bay/Tampa Bay game.
Take my whole quote next time. I also brought up the Packers one game.
I wasn't sure which of Rodger's three-interception games you were talking about. He's had four so far this season.
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Overheard on KFAN (TC sports-talk radio) this afternoon... AP is going to miss practice on Thursday and Friday of this week. He was invited to Times Square to help drop the ball on New Years. :D
Ba-da-CHING! :laugh:
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I was thouroughly dismayed and frustrated at the coaching decision in Sundays Colts game. All we really learned is that our third string quarterback needs to be fired. It was absolutely a wasted game that gave us nothing but a little rest for some of the starters. While that may look great on paper, it looks bad in reality because every year we have rested our starters we lose the first round in the playoffs.
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I wasn't sure which of Rodger's three-interception games you were talking about. He's had four so far this season.
haha, you are right about that one.
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And the Ravens are going to the playoffs. :D
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Yup, Ravens are in, Jets win and in. Otherwise looks like the Texans lock it down.
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Bengals get to pick who they face in the 1st round: Jets or Texans. If they lose and play the Jets what an awful turn of events for the NFL schedule. We would have three next-week re-matches of the four 1st round playoff games.
Very bad luck for the NFL, indeed. :-\
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The Vikings looked good. Now they just need to hope that none of their playoff games are scheduled for an evening start.
Bengals get to pick who they face in the 1st round: Jets or Texans. If they lose and play the Jets what an awful turn of events for the NFL schedule. We would have three next-week re-matches of the four 1st round playoff games.
Very bad luck for the NFL, indeed. :-\
I actually think this would be fairly cool. I am probably not in the majority, however.
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Whoever said Brett Favre can't finish a season please stand up. Then sit back down cause you're wrong!
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Sorry, but no. He still caused drama and beat one of the worst secondaries in the league today. Bring it next week and the week after and we can talk.
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Sorry, but no. He still caused drama and beat one of the worst secondaries in the league today. Bring it next week and the week after and we can talk.
He still finished a season... if you only go by opponents the chargers still can't be considered a good team... who have they beat besides Philly that's any good?
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Maybe I don't consider them a good team. But they beat the Broncos twice, and they are alright.
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You know what would be the greatest irony: Jets beat Bengals next week and Colts the following. :laugh:
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Whoever said Brett Favre can't finish a season please stand up. Then sit back down cause you're wrong!
I'm not aware of anyone who thought Favre couldn't finish the season. Especially given last year when he placed his personal desire to play every game of the season above what was best for his team.
You know what would be the greatest irony: Jets beat Bengals next week and Colts the following. :laugh:
Why would that be ironic?
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if they beat one more team after that, yeah, that would be awesome. Beacause they would make it to the superbowl the year after Favre, what would be even better is if the Vikings played the Jets in the SB.
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That would be fun, except I know one of those two teams is going to be the Ravens. ;)
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You know what would be the greatest irony: Jets beat Bengals next week and Colts the following. :laugh:
Why would that be ironic?
Colts, then Bengals, give half-hearted effort to allow Jets into the playoffs. What could be more ironic than if the Jets then beat them in four consecutive weeks?
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Thanks, STAMP, I understand now.
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Colts, then Bengals, give half-hearted effort to allow Jets into the playoffs. What could be more ironic than if the Jets then beat them in four consecutive weeks?
I like how you think. I made that exact comment to my friends during the game, haha.
Alright, everyone make your playoff predictions.
Wild Card Round:
NFC:
Cowboys over Eagles
Packers over Cardinals
AFC:
Ravens over Patriots
Jets over Bengals
Divisional Round:
NFC:
Packers over Saints
Vikings over Cowboys
AFC:
Ravens over Colts
Chargers over Jets
Championship Round:
NFC:
Vikings over Packers
AFC:
Chargers over Ravens
Super Bowl:
Vikings over Chargers
I will edit this more later as I think on it.
Kirk
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Packers play Cardinals AGAIN!? Wow... Cardinals better step up their game. ;D I agree with Kirk's predictions but put Bengals over the Jets.
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I like the Iggles over the Boys, I think they had a wake up call today.
I'll take the Pack over Arizona.
J-E-T-S over Bungals.
Pats over Ravens. (Contingent on Welker)
Then I like the Colts over Jets
Pats over Bolts
Vikes over Eagles
Saints over Pack
For the Conference champs I like the Colts and the Vikes, and then I'll take the Vikes in the Superbowl, oh wait, its a night game, I'll take the colts ;)
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Round 1 - NFC:
- Cowboys over Eagles. As much as I like McNabb, I'm not convinced the Eagles can snap back after a shutout game. That defense just wasn't annoying them Cowboys.
- Packers over Cardinals. Warner isn't playing as well as he can, Leinart looks no better, and they lost a WR to injury. Hopefully they can step it up for the playoffs, but the Packers look so much better. Speaking of stepping it up...
Round 1 - AFC:
- Jets over Bungals. It was a bad smashing last week. I can't see them improving enough to beat the Jets.
- Ravens over Patriots. I don't think the Patriots' defense can hold 'em, and even if Welker plays, it won't be at 100%. Also, the Patriots don't rush... putting too much into the air... and the Ravens seem to do well picking off the interception.
Round 2 - AFC:
- Colts over Ravens. I can't see the Colts making the mistakes the Patriots did, and although I am impressed by the Ravens' offense, I think the Colts will control the game after seeing what the Ravens have up their sleeves, especially after a bye. Plus, I need the Colts to win in order to attend their annual whooping by the Chargers.
- Chargers over Jets. Chargers have the best offense in the league, plus 11 straight wins. The Jets don't, but Reves (that one defender) might make the passing game difficult.
Round 2 - NFC:
- Vikings over Cowboys. Vikings are the strongest, most consistent team IMO. The Cowboys can't do it, although I think it will be close.
- Packers over Saints. Saints over Cardinals. Drew Brees is awesome, but I think the Packers are the team to stop him. It'd have to be a high scoring game for the Saints to win, and their offense has slowed, and the Saints defense isn't holding up, while the Packers seem more consistent, though not perfect. The Cardinals can't do it again.
Round 3:
- Vikings over Packers Saints. Favre and Brees have amazing arms and receivers. I think it'll come down to defenses, and the Vikings will do better at stopping the pass, especially if AP shines through.
- Chargers over Colts. Colts over Jets. Both offenses are slow and careful, but the Jets can't stop a second-half rally.
Super Bowl:
- Vikings over Chargers Colts. No idea why.
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Round 1 - NFC:
- Cowboys over Eagles. As much as I like McNabb, I'm not convinced the Eagles can snap back after a shutout game. That defense just wasn't annoying them Cowboys. I agree
- Packers over Cardinals. Warner isn't playing as well as he can, Leinart looks no better, and they lost a WR to injury. Hopefully they can step it up for the playoffs, but the Packers look so much better. I agree
Round 1 - AFC:
- Jets over Bungals. It was a bad smashing last week. Because the Bengals werent tipping their hand knowing they would ge the same opponenet. This was a gimmie by the Bengals but they wont pull thier punches in the Playoffs. This will be the first Playoff game @ Cincinnati since Polomau Crushed palmers Knee. They want this much more than Sanchez and the Jets want this one. With or without Chad, the bengals will win this one.
- Ravens over Patriots. I don't think the Patriots' defense can hold 'em, and even if Welker plays, it won't be at 100%. Also, the Patriots don't rush... putting too much into the air... and the Ravens seem to do well picking off the interception. I agree. The ravens want Revenge for the regular season and the Patriots are damaged goods after their loss to the Colts. the only wild card is how much will it snow in Foxboro ?
Round 2 - NFC: AFC
- Colts over Jets. Bengals See: who's playing. There is no way the Jets win this game (especially since I have the Bengals beating them. But if the Jets get this far, do NOT expect a repeat of week 16. The Colts will be playing at home, in front of their fans, with no hands tied behind their back. They would beat the Jets by at least three touchdowns. Now the Bengals pose a different problem. The Colts will have to score early and often to get the Bengals away from their vaunted Rushing attack and force them to throw. I just dont know it they can do it against the Bengals Secondary. I give it to the Colts in a close on....because Manning specializes in close wins this season.
- Chargers over Ravens. Chargers have the best offense in the league, plus 11 straight wins. I can't see the Ravens being the ones to stop them, even if they can smash the Patriots. Saddly I agree.
Round 2 - AFC: NFC
- Vikings over Cowboys. Vikings are the strongest team IMO. The Cowboys can't do it, although I think it will be close. I dissagree. I think the Cowboys are paking at the right time and the Vikes are struggling at the right time. This will be an upset.
- Packers over Saints. Drew Brees is awesome, but I think the Packers are the team to stop him. I'd have to be a high scoring game for the Saints to win, and their offense has slowed, and the Saints defense isn't holding up, while the Packers seem more consistent, though not perfect. Also, the Saints' last five have been close games against iffy teams, or losses to decent teams... I don't see that improving, even with the bye. I may flop on this prediction once I see Green Bay play next week. I agree with this. The Saints look listless and the Pack looks hungry. The Packers hit them hard and often and win by at least 10.
Round 3:
- Vikings Cowboys over Packers. I pick the Packers over the Cowboys here.
Chargers over Colts. This is probably stupid, but the Colts can't come from behind in every game. It's likely that one of these teams will stumble in round 2, but I'd like to see a Cali team be the ones to spank the Colts. I think the Chargers magic runs out in Indianapolis. They have no running game that is troublesome this year ( unlike previoius times they upset the colts) and Rivers will be throwing against a very good secondary (even if it contains two rookies). I pick the colts here Cause I love them!
Super Bowl:
- Vikings over ChargersColts over Packers. The Chargers are good, but I think the Vikings defense will shake them up. Odds are, the Chargers won't make it this far, but the Vikings are too strong to lose it here to just about anyone. Besides, who doesn't want to see the two Californias' best teams squaring off?
I think the Colts will win this year against any NFC team except probably the Vikings. If the Vikings make it, then exect a good game, but the Pack wont be able to hold the Colts back.
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I'm glad you pick the Packers so highly in the playoffs... I must say I'm very worried that the Vikings could lose to them. However, your Colts should be scared of the Packers. The Packers are (2nd?) in interceptions and Peyton has been known to throw interceptions against good teams in the playoffs.
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Okay, my team is not in the playoffs, so I'm only a semi-curious observer at best. I'm not going to give my prognostications, because let's face it, this year I stink. :laugh:
But I will give you my nirvana-state and hell-state versions of the playoffs:
| Nirvana-state | |
| Ravens beat Patriots | Wild | Eagles beat Cowboys |
| Bengals beat Jets | Card | Cardinals beat Packers |
| Colts beat Ravens | Divisional | Eagles beat Saints |
| Chargers beat Bengals | Round | Cardinals beat Vikings |
| Chargers beat Colts | Conf. Champ. | Eagles beat Cardinals |
| Super Bowl | |
| Eagles beat Chargers | |
| Hell-state | |
| Patriots beat Ravens | Wild | Cowboys beat Eagles |
| Bengals beat Jets | Card | Packers beat Cardinals |
| Colts beat Bengals | Divisional | Packers beat Saints |
| Patriots beat Chargers | Round | Cowboys beat Vikings |
| Patriots beat Colts | Conf. Champ. | Cowboys beat Packers |
| Super Bowl | |
| Cowboys beat Patriots | |
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- Jets over Bungals. It was a bad smashing last week. Because the Bengals werent tipping their hand knowing they would ge the same opponenet. This was a gimmie by the Bengals but they wont pull thier punches in the Playoffs. This will be the first Playoff game @ Cincinnati since Polomau Crushed palmers Knee. They want this much more than Sanchez and the Jets want this one. With or without Chad, the bengals will win this one.
Fair enough. I don't see either team being particularly strong, but knowing that the Jets can smash 'em, regardless of their efforts in last game, has me lean their way. Either way, the winner here will lose their next game.
Round 2 - AFC: NFC
Oops. Copy/Paste error.
- Vikings over Cowboys. Vikings are the strongest team IMO. The Cowboys can't do it, although I think it will be close. I dissagree. I think the Cowboys are paking at the right time and the Vikes are struggling at the right time. This will be an upset.
I can see the Vikings falling to the Cowboys if they played this week, but not after a bye. The Vike defense is pretty good, but I think a week off will give them a strong edge, especially if the Eagles manage to bring the heat this week.
- Chargers over Colts. This is probably stupid, but the Colts can't come from behind in every game. It's likely that one of these teams will stumble in round 2, but I'd like to see a Cali team be the ones to spank the Colts. I think the Chargers magic runs out in Indianapolis. They have no running game that is troublesome this year ( unlike previoius times they upset the colts) and Rivers will be throwing against a very good secondary (even if it contains two rookies). I pick the colts here Cause I love them!
You've seen the Chargers play the Colts in the playoffs before, right? ;) :P
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You've seen the Chargers play the Colts in the playoffs before, right? ;) :P
Dont remind me. ugh!
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Polamalu never did anything to Palmer's knee. It was Kimo van Olhauffen.
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Cowboys over Eagles
Packers over Cardinals
AFC:
Ravens over Patriots
Jets over Bengals
I completely agree.
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FYI, Ravens fans, the Patriots are 8-0 at home.
Not that stats matter.... ;)
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They're also 3-3 in their last 6, and 5-4 since the bye. The Ravins are 4-2 and 6-4 in the same period. Those numbers interest me a bit more than location. I think somebody's getting tired.
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They're also 3-3 in their last 6, and 5-4 since the bye. The Ravins are 4-2 and 6-4 in the same period. Those numbers interest me a bit more than location. I think somebody's getting tired.
But all of the games played during those periods in Foxboro were Patriot victories.
Remember that the Patriots have been dogging it on the road to save their strength for the playoffs. They had to play for real when at home because Kraft said so. ;)
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Round 2 - AFC: NFC
- Vikings over Cowboys. Vikings are the strongest team IMO. The Cowboys can't do it, although I think it will be close. I dissagree. I think the Cowboys are paking at the right time and the Vikes are struggling at the right time. This will be an upset.
If the game were in Dallas, I'd be somewhat worried, but no matter who they play, the Vikings will not lose at home. I'm definitely pulling for the Packers to beat the Cards and then upset the Saints to set up a Packers Vikes Championship in the Metrodome.
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I think it will be Packers CHargers in the Super Bowl. I hope it is not since I am not too fond of either team.
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Packers are looking good... but Adrian Peterson has some catchup to do against the Packers... you're not gonna keep a running back like him contained for 3 games straight... the next one isn't gonna look good for the Packers.
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my prediction is gonna be short and sweet
Ravens beat everyone simple as that, take care now bye bye then
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my prediction is gonna be short and sweet
Ravens beat everyone simple as that, take care now bye bye then
That didn't sound very sweet...just sayin'
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:rollin: Can't wait for the playoffs to start....
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Can't wait for the playoffs to start....
For the first time in recent history (say the past decade) I am really excited about the playoffs. I am especially pumped because I have no clue who will emerge to defend the honor of the NFC.
Go Pack!
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I can't wait for the draft. ::)
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What pick do your Niners have Scott? Like 10nth?
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Can't wait for the playoffs to start....
For the first time in recent history (say the past decade) I am really excited about the playoffs. I am especially pumped because I have no clue who will emerge to defend the honor of the NFC.
Go Pack!
No kidding. In the regular season:
The Saints beat the Eagles but lost to the Cowboys.
The Vikings beat the Pack twice but lost to the Cardinals
The Cowboys beat the Eagles twice and the Saints once, but lost to the Pack
The Eagles beat no NFC playoff teams and lost to the Saints once and Cowboys twice, but were probably the hottest NFC team going into last week.
The Cardinals beat the Vikings but lost to the Packers
And the Packers beat the Cowboys and the Cardinals, but lost to the Vikes twice
All that said, all of these teams have played games at a high enough caliber to beat any of the other teams, and all have played games where any of these teams could beat them. It just depends on which team shows up to play. It'll be an exciting postseason, that's for sure. And the possibility of a Favre vs. Packers championship game? Talk about ratings.
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Well I'm 2-0 so far on my picks.
Kirk
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I am 1-1. I picked the Bengals because I liver here in Cinci. It was a very poor effort by anyone not named Cedric Benson on the part of the Bengals.
The Jets looked good, but they also looked predictable (running the same 4 plays multiple times) They will have a much tougher game next week.
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Yuck, the Patriots are playing some bad football. Although the Ravens haven't been perfect, the first two minutes alone made me confident of 3-0.
Yeah, the Jets are in trouble next week... although Sanchez played a good game, either team they will face can make life difficult for the rookie. And that defense won't stop the Chargers' running game, although the guy guarding Ochocinco last night needs a raise. I hadn't seen him play this season, he is good.
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Darelle Revis is the beat shutdown corner in the league. He went to Pitt. He was just as dominating there.
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Yuck, the Patriots are playing some bad football.
Thanks for letting the hammer fall lightly. ;D
Times like these make me happy that I don't have television. :o
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Me and Kirk are 3-0 now. If Packers win then we should get a raise.
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Me and Kirk are 3-0 now. If Packers win then we should get a raise.
I completely agree! Haha. The Ravens absolutely smacked the Patriots upside the head. Bring it on Colts.
Kirk
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And... now we're all 3-1. I think the Patriots and Cardinals switched jerseys.
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WHOOOOOOAA, NELLIE!
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I am 2-2. I missed the Pack/Cards game and the Jets/bungles game.
At the beginning of the Season I said that I though the AFC would Run through Baltimore this year and at this moment the Ravens are playing like complete Champions. That was Devastating Loss at Foxborough that the Ravens laid down on the pats. No one wants to play the ravens...Indianapolis Included. This means that Indianapolis will have to go through probably the 2 toughest teams in the AFC Playoffs to get to the Superbowl (Ravens and Chargers because ...seriously..are the Jets going to up end the Chargers as easily as they did the Bengals?...I dont think so)
This is looking grim for Indianapolis indeed. All I have to say is that Peyton Manning has not lost a game he wanted to win this year.
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Wow, what a crazy game, with an even crazier finish.... I wonder if Ted Thompson still likes Rodgers over Brett ;)
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Wow, what a crazy game, with an even crazier finish.... I wonder if Ted Thompson still likes Rodgers over Brett ;)
Probably. If he has any doubts he could remind himself about this (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d80638d16/Anatomy-of-a-Play-Favre-s-OT-interception).
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LN, you really need to get your teams straight. first the Bengals, then the Packers, both fallen in the first round... who are you going to cheer for now? Favre?
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Heck yes! I said from the beginning the Vikings will win the superbowl... it's not over for me yet! :D
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| Nirvana-state | |
| Ravens beat Patriots | Wild | Eagles beat Cowboys |
| Bengals beat Jets | Card | Cardinals beat Packers |
| Colts beat Ravens | Divisional | Eagles beat Saints |
| Chargers beat Bengals | Round | Cardinals beat Vikings |
| Chargers beat Colts | Conf. Champ. | Eagles beat Cardinals |
| Super Bowl | |
| Eagles beat Chargers | |
| Hell-state | |
| Patriots beat Ravens | Wild | Cowboys beat Eagles |
| Bengals beat Jets | Card | Packers beat Cardinals |
| Colts beat Bengals | Divisional | Packers beat Saints |
| Patriots beat Chargers | Round | Cowboys beat Vikings |
| Patriots beat Colts | Conf. Champ. | Cowboys beat Packers |
| Super Bowl | |
| Cowboys beat Patriots | |
Although being only halfway nirvana, at least it wasn't hell week. In fact, the excitement of the Packers-Cardinals duel made the whole football weekend special! Of course, it certainly didn't hurt to see the Hawkeyes win the Orange Bowl!! :thumbup:
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Hm... not looking too good Stamp! :D
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Hm... not looking too good Stamp! :D
Yeah, my bracket is shaping up pretty similar to my NCAA brackets. :rollin:
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Who's in your Top 5?
1. Colts
2. Vikings
3. Saints
4. Giants
5. Ravens
Some questions for discussion:
*Does anyone think the Broncos are for real?
What I think...
The Broncos have a good running game and a solid defense, which is a good combo, but I don't think they are more "for real" than the surprising Bengals who actually have some wins against quality teams and just got plain unlucky against Denver in Week 1.
*Rookie of the year: Sanchez or Harven?
What I think...
If the Jets return to the play-offs it would be hard to not give the nod to Sanchez, but Harven has shown enormous potential in so many ways that he's going to make this a close race either way.
*Who gets kicked out of Dallas first, Phillips or Romo?
What I think...
Why did I even post this question? I don't like Dallas and I don't care what happens to them...
My how things have changed since this thread began.
Currently my top 5 would be:
1. Colts (Rusty or not, Peyton Manning is still Peyton Manning. Despite past history, he's just really hard to bet against)
2. Chargers (I think the Colts will be the impenetrable barrier for this near-unstoppable force)
3. Vikings (It'll be a close game vs. Dallas, but I think the Vikings 12th man--the home dome crowd--gives us the edge)
4. Dallas (Currently I'd pick the Vikes, but if Dallas does beat us, then I'd say they will represent the NFC in the Super Bowl)
5. Saints (Hard to pick them over Baltimore given their end of season struggles, but I think they should be rested and ready to face a Cardinals team still tired from their shootout vs. the Pack)
-Evidently the Broncos really weren't for real.
-The Jets did return to the playoffs, but it wasn't because of Sanchez, as much as it was about defense. And playing two teams at the end of the season who were resting their starters. And Harvin showed throughout the season that he deserved the Rookie of the Year award. And he got it.
-Well, now EVERY Vikings fan cares what happens to Dallas. And I do sincerely hope that Phillips' job continues to remain in question after this weekend.
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Roger Staubach Hail Mary Pass Thriller!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMN1HfQaE5o#)
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Wait, who's the hottest team in the league? ;D
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The Chargers ;)
Now, the Cowboys were the hottest in the NFC.
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Dear Tony Romo,
Please enjoy the 7 months off you have to recuperate from the turf burn you suffered today. See you next season!
Sincerely,
The Vikings Defensive Line
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Dear Tony Romo,
Please enjoy the 7 months off you have to recuperate from the turf burn you suffered today. See you next season!
Sincerely,
The Vikings Defensive Line
you sir, have won the internet
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The Chargers ;)
O RLY? ::)
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That was SWEET!! I loved the final TD, and then seeing Brooking jawing witht he sideline while Allen was sitting there laughing! Seeing the Cowboys crash and burn just made my whole football season. :D
...and don't count out those Jets!
BTW, anyone need a quality kicker?!? :rollin:
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The Chargers ;)
Yeah, I'll just shut up now. Looks like I'm about as good as Micheal Strahan with my picks!
O RLY? ::)
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WHAT?!!!!!!!!!!
JETS OVER CHARGERS?!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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I blame the ref that penalized Vincent's "kick." Dumbest penalty I'm seen in awhile.
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I blame the ref that penalized Vincent's "kick." Dumbest penalty I'm seen in awhile.
True. That was a ridiculous penalty, but I do not think that it made any difference in the game.
And I CANNOT believe that the Jets actually beat the Chargers! I feel so bad for the Chargers. They have had soooo many good teams and still have nothing to show for it.
that being said...
I would like to congratulate on my Colts for making their second Superbowl appearance since moving to Indianapolis. The Chargers had me worried and I think they would have matched up well against my Colts but while the Jets Defense is good, I think baltimore was a bit better and we hung 20 on them so I'm not too worried. ;D
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I would like to congratulate on my Colts for making their second Superbowl appearance since moving to Indianapolis
Are you saying that your Colts have already beaten my Jets? Dem r fitin words. But really this is why the game is played. Also if you think the Colts have already won most people also thought that of the Bengals the first, and second time, and the Chargers, who I think are not as good as the Colts on paper but would have beaten them head to head.
They have had soooo many good teams and still have nothing to show for it.
Guess they were not so good then, lol.
but while the Jets Defense is good, I think baltimore was a bit better and we hung 20 on them so I'm not too worried.
Good? #1 corner in the league, best rushing defense too go with it, made them the best defense in the league. I think this Sunday's matchups for NFC/AFC championship is the best games in a while. The Vikings and Saints, the top 2 NFC teams who never played each other during regular season! This is going to be their first time playing each other and it will be at the Dome and Brett/Brees, it's gonna be high scoring. Then on the AFC side you have the bitter Colts going against the underdog. The experienced Manning, verse the Sanchise. Both teams seem to put up just enough points to win and with Revis taking out Reggie Wayne, it's going to be up to Dallas Clark verse the rest of the defense. I am not saying Garcon and Gonzalez are not great but they are not as much of a threat. Both defense are tough and both offenses play very different, this should be an awesome game. J-E-T-S jets jets jets!
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I'm sorry, but there is no reason to give the Colts the game. If anything, I'd give the game to the Jets. Peyton is good, but that defense is by far one of the best I have seen for awhile, and I live in Pittsburgh. Wayne no longer exists for next game. You will not get over 50 yards rushing. The Jets could easily win.
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I blame the ref that penalized Vincent's "kick." Dumbest penalty I'm seen in awhile.
True. That was a ridiculous penalty, but I do not think that it made any difference in the game.
True. I'm really more annoyed with the Chargers players that kept giving him reasons to penalize them, and he got a little carried away. I think the Chargers would've had another TD in the first half if they'd not been so... whatever they were.
But I'm continually amazed by Revis. If he ends up with a ring, I will be okay with his team smashing mine. I'm considering picking them over the Colts... If they can pick off Rivers, they can certainly mess with Peyton, especially since the Colts running game isn't much better than the Chargers'.
Mr.Hiatus is right, we are gonna get some good football.
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Hahahah I knew it! The Chargers will NEVER win a superbowl with Philip Rivers as quarterback... NEVER!
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I am SOOOOO loving all the hatin going on against my Colts ;)
Jets D is pretty good but the Jets are at best a 8-8 team if not a 7-9 team. their last two games were giftwrapped for them but since the jets did beat the bengals in the post season, I will give you that one. The Jets didnt have much of a chance during the Colts game until Peyton left in the second half.
I am not saying that Defense is not good. I KNOW it will slow the colts down. It is the Jets Offense that I think will be the problem for them. A rookie QB in the AFC Championship for the first time, The Colts Defense looked great against the Ravens who have a very similar offense to the Jets with a great running back in Ray Rice. It will be Loud in the Dome and the Rush defense of the Colts will not give "Sanchize" much time to make decisions at all....so...
yes, I do think that the Colts have a very good shot at making the superbowl again. I rooted for the jets today, partially because I like underdogs and partially because I feared the Bolts more.
But underdogs are underdogs for a reason. And the Colts have won every game they wanted to this season for a reason so hate all you want andif I am wrong you have my permission to make me eat humble pie, but deep down, I think most of you know, that the Jets just paved the way for Indy to go to Miami this February.
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Yeah but.... Thomas Jones is for real! And hey... you'd guys better watch out... Adrian Peterson is not like those "other" running backs... you'd better pray hard for the Saints to win. ;) He's the best at what he does... unfortunately, what he does isn't very nice.
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I was not gonna say anything back till I read this.
I think most of you know, that the Jets just paved the way for Indy to go to Miami this February.
Now where was I...
Jets D is pretty good but the Jets are at best a 8-8 team if not a 7-9 team. their last two games were giftwrapped for them but since the jets did beat the bengals in the post season, I will give you that one. The Jets didnt have much of a chance during the Colts game until Peyton left in the second half.
I am not saying that Defense is not good. I KNOW it will slow the colts down. It is the Jets Offense that I think will be the problem for them. A rookie QB in the AFC Championship for the first time, The Colts Defense looked great against the Ravens who have a very similar offense to the Jets with a great running back in Ray Rice. It will be Loud in the Dome and the Rush defense of the Colts will not give "Sanchize" much time to make decisions at all....so...
Jets D is pretty good? Try #1 in the league. 8-8 team, 7-9!?! Blasphemy. They also lost two tough ones which they should have so I think it balances out pretty well. When Peyton was taken out it was 15-10. That to me seems like a good game. Anything could have happened and you still can not blame it on taking out Peyton, we scored 29 points against your defense, not Peyton. The Jets offense is fine right now. I would not even consider Sanchez a rookie anymore, he has played more than a regular season now. And do not forget he was the MVP in the Rose Bowl, which I think was a bigger audience/crowd then the AFC championship will be. Yes the Ravens and Jets offense might be somewhat similar, but you have to count for Brad Smith in wildcat, Shaun Green who has had an amazing postseason, and then the number 3 running back in the league, Thomas Jones. That is a little better then Ray Rice.And the rush defense of the COlts will not give Sanchez time to throw? You forget that the Jets offensive line is also ranked number one in the league and that Mark Sanchez has been hurried/hit/sacked the least amount of times.
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Jets D is pretty good? Try #1 in the league.
Yes, but they are still 8-8 in my book with a great looking loss to a team from Buffalo? they were swept by the Dolphins and while they did beat New England at home, they got thrashed by New England at Foxborough. sooo a # 1 Defense can only take you so far...
we scored 29 points against your defense, not Peyton.
Yeah, well you wont be playing against our defensive scrubbs this time either. Both Freeney and Mathis were resting alongside Peyton.
I would not even consider Sanchez a rookie anymore, he has played more than a regular season now.
Yeah, but lets see how he does in the big lights of the AFC Championship game...maybe the Rose Bowl is a bigger crowd, but ther is a lot more pressure in this game than in ANY college game
And the rush defense of the COlts will not give Sanchez time to throw? You forget that the Jets offensive line is also ranked number one in the league and that Mark Sanchez has been hurried/hit/sacked the least amount of times.
Really are we just making up stats now? I dont know about hut or hurried stats, but ESPN tells me this
Regular season Sacks
Peyton= 10
Sanchez = 26
Im sure the hurried and hit stats are likely to be very similar.
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I hope the Jets win so it's an easier game for the Vikings in the Super Bowl.
However, the realist in me says the Colts win by at least 14.
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Bah, Haven't you forgot the Vikes can't play at night, on the road? Look at 3 of thier 4 losses, all on the road, all at night, Carolina, Chigaco and Arizona. Guess what the Saints game is - A night game on the road.
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Regular season Sacks
Peyton= 10
Sanchez = 26
hate to break it to you, but Favre has sacked 0 times. :P
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HEY crustpope don't even bother arguing with these guys as they must have forgot those first 14 games the Colts played, the Colts are going to win Freeney Mathis will make sanchez cry, thomas Jones!? everyone saying we should fear him! They must have forgot that we have peyton manning, Peyton > thomas jones +mark sanchez + darrelle revis. all im saying is y'all must have forgot what we did to Ray Rice, what we did to the Ravens D, that no lead is safe and that Peyton can kill the clock and score and make the Jets have to throw then mathis and Freeney will clean Sanchez up. Colt 31 Jets 10 P.S. saints WILL beat the Vikings, Colts will beat the saints
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HEY crustpope don't even bother arguing with these guys as they must have forgot those first 14 games the Colts played, the Colts are going to win Freeney Mathis will make sanchez cry, thomas Jones!? everyone saying we should fear him! They must have forgot that we have peyton manning, Peyton > thomas jones +mark sanchez + darrelle revis. all im saying is y'all must have forgot what we did to Ray Rice, what we did to the Ravens D, that no lead is safe and that Peyton can kill the clock and score and make the Jets have to throw then mathis and Freeney will clean Sanchez up. Colt 31 Jets 10 P.S. saints WILL beat the Vikings, Colts will beat the saints
Saints aren't going to beat us. Colts will be lucky to beat us...
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I hope the Jets win so it's an easier game for the Vikings in the Super Bowl.
Wow. So much negativity towards the Jets. :o
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I guess I could clarify that a bit. The Jets are playing great football right now, but without question the Vikings match up way better against them than they would against the Colts.
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All the Vikings have to do against the Saints is let Favre throw it down field a few times.
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All the Vikings have to do against the Saints is let Favre throw it down field a few times.
See I think this is exactly the problem with the Vikings. They give it to Favre too much... he will be so much more effective if you run the ball more. Then you can do more play-actions and things like that.
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All the Vikings have to do against the Saints is let Favre throw it down field a few times.
See I think this is exactly the problem with the Vikings. They give it to Favre too much... he will be so much more effective if you run the ball more. Then you can do more play-actions and things like that.
yeah, we all think that too. you're a Favre fan, I'm surprised at you LN, you see the light of AP being MVP, not Favre.
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Well yes I do. It's a simple fact that quarterbacks to better with a good RB, one that is USED. John Elway+Terell Davis is a great example.
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How about those Jets! ;)
The Jets are lucky we didnt hang 50 on them. Sanchez was throwing it away into dangerous territory and just got lucky he wasn't picked another 2 or 3 times. Their Running game ran into quicksand and the only thing keeping them alive were some brilliant plays in the 2nd.
Now its just to wait to find out who else punches their ticket to Miami. Game looks good so far.
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Eh, The Colts are lucky that the flag wasn't thrown on that blatent hit on Sanchez in the 3rd. You could totally see all the life go out of the Jets after that play.
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Vikings nation is holding its breath right now. It looked like Favre may have cracked a rib a few plays ago and now it looks like he may have injured his ankle.
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Eh, The Colts are lucky that the flag wasn't thrown on that blatent hit on Sanchez in the 3rd. You could totally see all the life go out of the Jets after that play.
I am not familiar with that play ;D. but seriously, this is not the same soft "bend but dont break" defense of years past. This is some old school "fly to the football" smashmouth defense.
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Wow, the Vikings were robbed. Among the worst OT's I've seen.
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that was a trap.
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Favre ends his career on an interception again. See ya next year Favre lol, on what team though...?
The Jets are lucky we didnt hang 50 on them. Sanchez was throwing it away into dangerous territory and just got lucky he wasn't picked another 2 or 3 times. Their Running game ran into quicksand and the only thing keeping them alive were some brilliant plays in the 2nd.
Hang 50 on them, lol. It was almost 17-6 going into the half but the Jets lost key defensive players and right when they were marching down the field Shaun Green gets hurt, who is a key to their offense. After this they lost momentum and could not score in the 3rd and I think lost hope going into the 4th. Consider the Colts lucky for our injuries. I do give it to number 18 and Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie, great games. And Sanchez was money that game when he was throwing he isn't lucky to not be picked off, they were great plays/passes. Overall I feel it should have been closer but either way the established, powerhouse, almost perfect season Colts, still had to have a great comeback to beat a rookie QB. :o
As for the NFC, those refs must have gotten a great paycheck from NO...those last calls were awful. Vikings got that one taken from them. Then again there were 5 or 6 turnovers from them so either way it was a piss poor game. The fact that there were that many turnovers from Minnesota and that NO still was tied after those turnovers. Go Colts now.
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ok, Maybe not 50. But it could have been a lot worse for the Jets. Sanchez had some great connections on some gadget plays catching the colts seconday with their pants down as they played to defend the run, but for the most part, they played lights out defense against the run and agaisnt the pass. Manning protected the ball well choosing to go down rather than force a throw unlike sanchez who chose to throw the ball away multiple times risking the pick each time. That is just a rookie mistake and I am sure Sanchez will learn to protect it better.
The fact that Shon green went out in the third is, in my oppinon, irrelevant. The Jets run had been contained all day and tomas green, a 1400 yard rusher in the regular season, was just as effective.
In the end it was just Sanchez against Manning and that is a tough one to beat.
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Favre will come back.
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Yeah, for the Bears, so he can get revenge on the Vikings who fumbled away his best shot at the Superbowl.
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Colts 36 Saints 24
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Colts 36 Saints 24
Colts 42 Saints 10
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awww! no love for the bayou?
too many for colts
saints 63 colts 0
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Please Andy, be realistic. The Saints have a poorish defense (the Viking's was much better). Both teams will score a lot of points.
Colts 34 Saints 24
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Saints 52-31
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Saints 24 Colts 17
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I just hope it's a good close game with no referee blunders and very few turnovers. :)
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.... and no wardrobe malfunctions....
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Sanchez had some great connections on some gadget plays catching the colts seconday with their pants down as they played to defend the run,
I think this is a problem for the Colts. The Saints have arguably one of the best receiving core out there and I think they will expose the Colts secondary.
but for the most part, they played lights out defense against the run and agaisnt the pass.
Yeah but when Shon Green got out they were not so much worried about the run game, making the pass game less effective, and allowing more blitzes. The fact that Jets put up 17 in the first half with a combination of running/passing was, IMO, a foreshadowing of what was to come in the 2nd half, till Green's injury.
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While I like the Colts and will pick them to win, I wont be sad if The Saints win. If any team "deserves" to win the Superbowl, then the Saints are that team, and of all the QB's out there that do not have ring, Drew bree's is a very deserving candidate.
I actually do think that the Colts will win and I think it will play out like this. The first half the Saints will go out ahead. Halftime will likely be something like 24-14. The second half will be when the Colts pick appart the Saints secondary running up the score while the defense for the colts begins to make key stops. Final score, Saints - 34 Colts 42
Drew Brees throws for 343 yards, and three scores, Bush runs for a score (or scores on a punt return...either way) Manning throws for 5 TD's Austin Collie has a 180 yard reception day with 2 scores, and big # 44 does work in short yardage situations racking up a respectable 87 yards and 2 scores. Reggie Wayne scores a TD and Joseph Addai runs for a score to finish up the scoring.
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Drew Brees is more accurate than an Olympic archer.
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While I like the Colts and will pick them to win, I wont be sad if The Saints win. If any team "deserves" to win the Superbowl, then the Saints are that team
hate to break it to you, but Vikings deserved it the most. we haven't been to a super bowl since the 70s (I think...) and have never won it. we needed it this year. stupid refs screwed it up.
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Saints have never been to a Super Bowl. And have never even hosted an NFC champonship game. And have only been to two (the other being 3 years ago).
Oh, and Katrina.
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Saints have never been to a Super Bowl. And have never even hosted an NFC champonship game. And have only been to two (the other being 3 years ago).
Oh, and Katrina.
Yeah...What he said!
The Vikes had four shots. While I know that can be tough to swallow...You have had FOUR SHOTS at a superbowl. that means they have had FOUR TIMES to prove they deserved it. Lets give the saints at least one shot to prove their mettle in the big game.
And stop hating the refs when your team had the dropsys all night long. They had 5 turnovers and 5 times that amount of fumbles that they actually recoverd that could have been turnovers. The Vikes did deserve to win that game, but losing it had NOTHING to do with the Refs.
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Oh, and Katrina.
BLAME GEORGE BU..... oh wait.
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Saints have never been to a Super Bowl. And have never even hosted an NFC champonship game. And have only been to two (the other being 3 years ago).
Oh, and Katrina.
this I did not know.
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Oh, and Katrina.
...and the Waves.
I think they're the backup if the Who can't go. :P
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stupid refs screwed it up.
Yeah cuz the refs kept throwing picks and dropping the ball lol.
BLAME GEORGE BU..... oh wait.
hahahaha
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stupid refs screwed it up.
Yeah cuz the refs kept throwing picks and dropping the ball lol.
I'll admit that we did have a lot of turnovers, but I don't really care about that. the OT was messed up because of the play before the kick, where the guy trapped it against himself.
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I Understand what you are talking about, but what every coach and player will tell you is that, while that is unfortunate, it should have not even mattered. The game should have long ago been solidly in Viking hands so if you play in a way that puts it in a situation where the refs, through a blown call, can take it from you, then you still cannot really blame the refs because you had five posessions to make points that you gave away.
I dont know the stats but I would be surprised if a significant number of teams have won games in spite of giving away 5 turnovers. IN football that is a HUGE number of lost oppertunities and if opposing offenses take advantage of those lost oportunities, then it just becomes really difficult to dig out of that.
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I Understand what you are talking about, but what every coach and player will tell you is that, while that is unfortunate, it should have not even mattered. The game should have long ago been solidly in Viking hands so if you play in a way that puts it in a situation where the refs, through a blown call, can take it from you, then you still cannot really blame the refs because you had five posessions to make points that you gave away.
I dont know the stats but I would be surprised if a significant number of teams have won games in spite of giving away 5 turnovers. IN football that is a HUGE number of lost oppertunities and if opposing offenses take advantage of those lost oportunities, then it just becomes really difficult to dig out of that.
this is true.
fine. I blame the coin toss. ;)
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When will the NFL finally move away from the joke that is overtime rules? College has it right, the NFL's rules absolutely stink.
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been solidly in Viking hands
:rollin:
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been solidly in Viking hands
:rollin:
That was an inadvertant joke....but funny nonetheless!
When will the NFL finally move away from the joke that is overtime rules? College has it right, the NFL's rules absolutely stink.
I totally agree that each team should get a possession, but I believe it should be a kickoff and not start at the 35 yard line.
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When will the NFL finally move away from the joke that is overtime rules? College has it right, the NFL's rules absolutely stink.
I totally agree that each team should get a possession, but I believe it should be a kickoff and not start at the 35 yard line.
That sounds good to me too, might as well "upgrade it" for the NFL. However, either of those options is better than the current rules that just encourage luck.
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When will the NFL finally move away from the joke that is overtime rules? College has it right, the NFL's rules absolutely stink.
I totally agree that each team should get a possession, but I believe it should be a kickoff and not start at the 35 yard line.
I would prefer that kickers and punters not be allowed in overtime. THAT would make the game interesting!
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When will the NFL finally move away from the joke that is overtime rules? College has it right, the NFL's rules absolutely stink.
I totally agree that each team should get a possession, but I believe it should be a kickoff and not start at the 35 yard line.
I would prefer that kickers and punters not be allowed in overtime. THAT would make the game interesting!
I would be happy with that, but I would still say that it relies too much on the coin toss.
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I would prefer that kickers and punters not be allowed in overtime. THAT would make the game interesting!
What game? Football? It would be interesting to call a game Football when players can't use their feet? LOL.
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I would prefer that kickers and punters not be allowed in overtime. THAT would make the game interesting!
What game? Football? It would be interesting to call a game Football when players can't use their feet? LOL.
oh, they can use their feet to run. that's why it was called football in the first place ;)
this is the stupidity of Americans. Soccer>Football
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im pretty sure the brits call american football, soccer. just as they call soccer, football ;)
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I do wish OT rules were changed to where it does not all stand on the kicked. Each team should get a shot I think.
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Yep... but let's face it the Vikings just plain messed up... Brett Favre threw an interception at a crucial time and the Favre/Peterson fumble/confusion thing costed them a touchdown... they should have won.
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The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong.