Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Minion of Jesus on May 20, 2012, 02:44:06 PM
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Very strange, but I know of about 2 or 3 girls who play Redemption. why would that be?
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Very strange, but I know of about 2 or 3 girls who play Redemption. why would that be?
I think it has to do with social norms. Collectible card games are not generally marketed for girls.
FWIW, I had two girls at my Disctrict Tournament yesterday.
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i can think of at least 2 marti and gretel coverdale
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Yeah, its social norms. A lot of girls don't play CCG's. Honestly, there aren't a lot of female gamers in general: Gretel and I are well aware that we're outside of the social norm. Now, that being said, females from 18-30 are the fastest growing group of gamers.
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So what can we do to market redemption to 18-30 old women and to make it more attractive to female players???
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So what can we do to market redemption to 18-30 old women and to make it more attractive to female players???
Print a set of all women characters and wrap the booster packs in pink wrappers.
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Haha great idea
We should suggest that to rob haha
But seriously are there other tactics we can use to encourage female players?
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My wife said to pass these ideas on:
1. She doesn't think the artwork is very appealing. She actually liked the Angel Wars artwork. (We're not talking about the effectiveness of the cards, just the visual appeal.)
2. Redemption needs more animals. A horse, a dog, a nice snake .... just something that could be more of a companion. This has worked tremendously for Neopets, Bella Sara, Webkinz and the sort.
3. Have a deck-out rule to slow down Speed decks.
Oh wait, that last one was my daughter's suggestion, not my wife's.
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Because we're nerds?
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Because we're nerds?
I don't know about that. Kirk Dennison is a beast. And I've heard that the Alstads are Allstuds. I'm surprised that more girls don't play Redemption just to be around those guys. ;)
Now, admittedly, I am a nerd. But it's all good because my wife is hot. ;D
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Because we're nerds?
I don't know about that. Kirk Dennison is a beast. And I've heard that the Alstads are Allstuds. I'm surprised that more girls don't play Redemption just to be around those guys. ;)
Now, admittedly, I am a nerd. But it's all good because my wife is hot. ;D
Just because the ladies like the nerd-studs doesn't mean they're willing to join us in our nerdom.
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Just because the ladies like the nerd-studs doesn't mean they're willing to join us in our nerdom.
My wife watches sports with me even though she doesn't like sports. I watch chick flicks with my wife even though they may bore me. If you want the rain, then you have to accept the occasional lightning. That's a part of meaningful relationships.
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Just because the ladies like the nerd-studs doesn't mean they're willing to join us in our nerdom.
My wife watches sports with me even though she doesn't like sports. I watch chick flicks with my wife even though they may bore me. If you want the rain, then you have to accept the occasional lightning. That's a part of meaningful relationships.
I know, I know. Still, your wife watching sports with you is a bit different than if you were playing WoW and she started playing WoW with you, even though it bored her. I'm sure it happens, but I would have never gotten away with something like that with my last girlfriend.
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I'm sure it happens, but I would have never gotten away with something like that with my last girlfriend.
Perhaps she's not "the one." :o
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I'm sure it happens, but I would have never gotten away with something like that with my last girlfriend.
Perhaps she's not "the one." :o
Finding someone that you can live with without driving each other crazy is all that one needs to do. You can't look for the "perfect" person, just someone you can get along with. After a year or so, she becomes "the one," once you're comfortable with each other, in my opinion.
A girl that's a nerd isn't high on my priorities.
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Finding someone that you can live with without driving each other crazy is all that one needs to do. You can't look for the "perfect" person, just someone you can get along with. After a year or so, she becomes "the one," once you're comfortable with each other, in my opinion.
I would disagree with this basic perception, speaking as a husband of 18 years. I could have easily found someone that met your description, but they would not have been like my wife. I'm glad I held out long enough to meet my wife. I thought she was way out of my league, but luckily God has a sense of humor.
A girl that's a nerd isn't high on my priorities.
My wife is a hottie. ;D
I don't think that girls who play Redemption have to be nerdy by definition.
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A girl that's a nerd isn't high on my priorities.
My wife is a hottie. ;D
You seem to be implying that part of being a nerdy girl is being unattractive.....
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You seem to be implying that part of being a nerdy girl is being unattractive.....
No, actually. I was using an antonym to make a point.
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tread carefully here YMT lol
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tread carefully here YMT lol
I'm not sure what the concern is. The traditional definition of "nerd" includes unattractiveness. However, I was looking specifically for a word that was opposite of nerd to describe my wife, since she does not meet any definition of nerd. She's not a jock either, for instance.
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tread carefully here YMT lol
I'm not sure what the concern is. The traditional definition of "nerd" includes unattractiveness. However, I was looking specifically for a word that was opposite of nerd to describe my wife, since she does not meet any definition of nerd. She's not a jock either, for instance.
I've always thought nerd to be the most neutral term for what we do.
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just defining all nerd woman as unattractive lol it didnt have nething to do with the comment about ur wife lol . . . i am also now realizing it was michaeljl not you ymt
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You seem to be implying that part of being a nerdy girl is being unattractive.....
No, actually. I was using an antonym to make a point.
An antonym is the opposite. You just did it again. If hottie is an antonym of nerd, than part of nerd is unattractive or at least average looking.
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You seem to be implying that part of being a nerdy girl is being unattractive.....
No, actually. I was using an antonym to make a point.
An antonym is the opposite. You just did it again. If hottie is an antonym of nerd, than part of nerd is unattractive or at least average looking.
I though he was saying he was using an antonym of unattractive to make a point about nerds.
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An antonym is the opposite. You just did it again. If hottie is an antonym of nerd, than part of nerd is unattractive or at least average looking.
You're falling behind here....
I'm not sure what the concern is. The traditional definition of "nerd" includes unattractiveness. However, I was looking specifically for a word that was opposite of nerd to describe my wife, since she does not meet any definition of nerd. She's not a jock either, for instance.
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Actually I'm not falling behind. You pretty much just clarified that that is exactly what you did. You used Hottie to be the opposite of a nerd.
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Actually I'm not falling behind. You pretty much just clarified that that is exactly what you did. You used Hottie to be the opposite of a nerd.
And I also said that "jock" is the opposite of "nerd," based purely on traditional definitions. But my wife does not qualify as a "jock" since she is not athletic. What exactly is your point and purpose?
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Actually I'm not falling behind. You pretty much just clarified that that is exactly what you did. You used Hottie to be the opposite of a nerd.
And I also said that "jock" is the opposite of "nerd," based purely on traditional definitions. But my wife does not qualify as a "jock" since she is not athletic. What exactly is your point and purpose?
Aren't there other things besides jocks and nerds? Punks, hipsters, druggies, rich kids, choir boys, etc?
My real questions is, though, is this high school?
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Aren't there other things besides jocks and nerds? Punks, hipsters, druggies, rich kids, choir boys, etc?
Indeed, but my wife doesn't fit any of those definitions either. ;)
My real questions is, though, is this high school?
That depends on what your definition of "nerd" is, I guess.
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this thread is so far off topic lol
we were discussing ways to make this game more attractive to female players . . . which i dont know y i care except that more players equals more fun
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That depends on what your definition of "nerd" is, I guess.
The people on Big Bang Theory, basically.
They have way too much knowledge about non-practical areas of interest, like card games, comic books, Star Trek, or even music. Smart, although they either keep their obsessions to themselves or are somewhat of a social outcast for being openly overly obsessed.
this thread is so far off topic lol
we were discussing ways to make this game more attractive to female players . . . which i dont know y i care except that more players equals more fun
And we were saying that card games, in general, are male-dominated because of social norms, I think.
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this thread is so far off topic lol
I wouldn't care if a Moderator just deleted or branched the sidetalk, since it was indeed off the topic.
we were discussing ways to make this game more attractive to female players . . . which i dont know y i care except that more players equals more fun
I agree with you wholeheartedly. We need to target all potential players in spite of perceived stereotypes.
They have way too much knowledge about non-practical areas of interest, like card games, comic books, Star Trek, or even music. Smart, although they either keep their obsessions to themselves or are somewhat of a social outcast for being openly overly obsessed.
Then we are working off two different definitions. However, I would still argue that a girl who plays Redemption (or any other gaming hobby) would not necessarily fit that definition.
And we were saying that card games, in general, are male-dominated because of social norms, I think.
Yes, on that point we all agree. ;D
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Well, if you want to bring more players to the game, I don't think trying to get girls to play Redemption is going to meet with as much success. Nor does marketing to women seem like a good idea, because women already don't play card games.
In fact, most of the people I've met who have been most interested in Redemption have been MTG players, some of whom are very much not Christian and are interested in it for strategic reasons.
Although I think that one of the best things Redemption offers is an INCREDIBLE way to increase your knowledge of the Bible quickly and easily while having fun, so seminary students is another good idea.
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Well connecting to MTG players can be a great ministry tool to reach the unreached
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Although I think that one of the best things Redemption offers is an INCREDIBLE way to increase your knowledge of the Bible quickly and easily while having fun, so seminary students is another good idea.
I think that Redemption players would probably win a trivia contest with many Bible Scholars. ;)
Question #3: Name any three Zerubbabel's Temple Priests.
My target audience prior to moving to FL was a Christian High School in CT. This is very much an audience that needs to be pursued with more vigor (Christian schools of all levels).
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My point is that we do have some women who visit these boards who might take offense to "hot" being assigned to being an antonym of nerdy, which they inherently are by playing a card game. Nerdy is a personality type, it has nothing to do with physical appearance. Let's not try to tie them together lest we insult the view women we can actually get to play Redemption.
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Actually, in my experience, female nerds tend to be very hot.
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My point is that we do have some women who visit these boards who might take offense to "hot" being assigned to being an antonym of nerdy, which they inherently are by playing a card game. Nerdy is a personality type, it has nothing to do with physical appearance. Let's not try to tie them together lest we insult the view women we can actually get to play Redemption.
And my point is that calling a girl "nerdy" simply because she plays a card game is equally offensive, regardless of your definition.
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And my point is that calling a girl "nerdy" simply because she plays a card game is equally offensive, regardless of your definition.
How is that offensive? As long as your tactful, it's not offensive.
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My point is that we do have some women who visit these boards who might take offense to "hot" being assigned to being an antonym of nerdy, which they inherently are by playing a card game. Nerdy is a personality type, it has nothing to do with physical appearance. Let's not try to tie them together lest we insult the view women we can actually get to play Redemption.
And my point is that calling a girl "nerdy" simply because she plays a card game is equally offensive, regardless of your definition.
CCGs are inherintly nerdy, just as football is inherently sport. Actions define people. If a person participates in a sport they are sporty, if they do nerdy things they are nerdy. If you don't want to be associated with being nerdy you can't do nerdy things. Appearance is related with only appearance.
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Ip I agree with ur sentiment but think ur over reading the issue
I've heard about starting play groups for middle school youth groups krounks does this and Jerome and I have discussed potentially doing the same
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Actually, in my experience, female nerds tend to be very hot.
+1 though I may be biased... ::)
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CCGs are inherintly nerdy, just as football is inherently sport.
This is the point I disagree with, starting with my initial post in the sidetalk. Kirk Dennison is someone I would define as an athlete because he plays sports and looks like an athlete. Apprearance is inherent in the definition of both "jock" and "nerd." This can be verified in the dictionary.
Not everyone who is part of a football team would be considered a jock, especially if they never play and sit the bench for physical reasons.
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Oh trust me, Kirk is definitely a nerd, However, he's also a jock - I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
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My Mom plays.
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Oh trust me, Kirk is definitely a nerd, However, he's also a jock - I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
That is true based on the definition that Michael eventually presented, but not off the one I was thinking. Like I said, the misunderstanding came from different definitions of "nerd," so that was my fault.
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I actually find the word "hot" to be offensive, but that's because I'm overly conservative.
And Gretel and I will both tell you that we're proud to be nerds. :)
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I actually find the word "hot" to be offensive, but that's because I'm overly conservative.
Really? Why? (You can PM this response to avoid off-topic, but I would like to know.) I have said that about my wife numerous times on these boards and no one ever said anything, so I apologize if that bothered you.
And Gretel and I will both tell you that we're proud to be nerds. :)
But, you're already players. We are trying to avoid offending girls that might consider playing Redemption, but do not want to be classified as nerds (for their own reasons).
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The study method idea isn't gender exclusive.
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The study method idea isn't gender exclusive.
If this post was for me, I have no idea what you are talking about.
If this post is not for me, then ignore everything I just said. ;)
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The study method idea isn't gender exclusive.
If this post was for me, I have no idea what you are talking about.
If this post is not for me, then ignore everything I just said. ;)
It was supposed to be on topic.
If Redemption was marketed as a study method for learning too many random things about the Bible to count, it would appeal to both genders.
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If Redemption was marketed as a study method for learning too many random things about the Bible to count, it would appeal to both genders.
Oh, I see. I completely agree that Redemption can help anyone of any age or gender learn significantly more about the Bible than they otherwise could have.
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If Redemption was marketed as a study method for learning too many random things about the Bible to count, it would appeal to both genders.
Oh, I see. I completely agree that Redemption can help anyone of any age or gender learn significantly more about the Bible than they otherwise could have.
Honestly, this could be the starting point for a whole range of products.
Periodic Table: The Gathering
Reconstruction: The Era
Molecular Biology CCG
Etc.
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Short answer: Girls, nerdy or not, can enjoy this game.
Long answer: Social norms limit a lot of them from even considering it or being aware of its existence.
Question: How many people have invited their female friends to learn the game and try it? How did it go?
Also: This game shows you so much about the bible it makes your head spin, absolutely amazing study tool, I learned SO much through this game.
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Because we're nerds?
No no, its like Dr. Pepper 10, its a guy thing!
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Because we're nerds?
No no, its like Dr. Pepper 10, its a guy thing!
Actually, the first (and only) person I've ever seen drink that stuff was a girl. Just sayin'.
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Because we're nerds?
No no, its like Dr. Pepper 10, its a guy thing!
Actually, the first (and only) person I've ever seen drink that stuff was a girl. Just sayin'.
Did she play redemption?
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Because we're nerds?
No no, its like Dr. Pepper 10, its a guy thing!
Actually, the first (and only) person I've ever seen drink that stuff was a girl. Just sayin'.
Did she play redemption?
I wish - then I'd stand a much better chance of starting a club :P
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First you missed one in your count
Two it takes a special kind of girl to play. One that loves Jesus and is incredibly geeky!
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I think it has more to do with life in general. This is all very stereotyped, but I find that young girls (8-12) are fairly common in the two playgroups I've been in, but once they get into their teens they have different priorities, or something that makes them disappear.
There are currently 3 girls in my current playgroup, all 8-12 (one might be 7, but she's actually quite good). In my last playgroup, there were 3 girls that played, but now 2 are more casual players. Isabelle decided to do Hockey in the fall/winter, and one of them only occasionally plays. The other is pretty consistent and pretty good. We only had 1 girl in the playgroup before those 3 came, and that was back in 2003-2005. And she was my sister, so she doesn't count.
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Does anyone else find it odd that we are talking about male/female stereotypes on a board where a significant fraction of the active members watch a TV show about ponies? Not trying to knock the bronies, just saying stereotypes and generalizations are not necessarily accurate.
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I find that pretty much all forums have a lot of bronies in them, message boards attract them like mosquitoes to a bug lamp.
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I actually spent the day explaining redemption to 2 girls in my church's youth group and a 3rd who is an old friend
They seemed interested but cost seemed to be a deterant to them
I know that is unavoidable but it's true
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I find that pretty much all forums have a lot of bronies in them, message boards attract them like mosquitoes to a bug lamp.
We are every where..... hahahahahaha
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My daughter,(Rebeccah age 17 now), and I have been playing Redemption since introduced to it by Jon Greeson at our church years ago. Rebeccah won sealed deck at Nationals in Minneapolis in 2011 when she went undefeated. Bragging aside and trying to be serious about answering the question, I want to give my two cents about girls playing Redemption. I have three older sons, all very active in playing sports, and we were active in sports card collecting as father and sons. When my daughter came along she had no interest in collecting and we had nothing that could be considered father and daughter interests that were simply for fun. Then along came Redemption with its bible theme, competitive spirit, social interaction, strategizing and a group of players that as a father I was not worried about how they treated or acted around my daughter...even when we slept in common rooms on gym floors at tourneys. Her continued interest in Redemption, and mine, has continued because of these perceived values by her and me and fully supported by her mother,(my wife of 36+ years who encouraged me to find something I could share with my daughter like I had with each of my sons). First; Stress these values to parents of girls and you may get more interested parents to support Redemption for both genders. Second; the host(s) of tournaments must control misbehavior/immature actions during play by players. Third; Redemption as a whole needs to market to youth pastors/church youth leaders/groups to introduce them to the game and its benefits,(see my comments above on why we like it), for both genders of their youth group...and frankly many youth leaders would welcome a "non gender" based game that develops more Bible knowledge like Bible quizzing tourneys but far more fun with little pre tourney practicing. Finally, my daughter has been impressed by those other girls she has met at tourneys as they have been Ladies of distinction" in their actions. Take care all. Allen
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Honestly i think it has less to do about how the cards look and more to do with how they are accepted in their play group. Alot of times there are women who want to do things that men do but are afraid of what we as men would do or say if we lost to a women. I had a girlfriend who was very good but the only reason why i think she lasted for so long is because as her boyfriend i was relentless and serious when i taught her so she had tough skin. She didnt even like samaritans or tgt theme but loved angels.
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I think this thread should be locked, because the title contains the words "bare" and "girls" and that is very disrespectful and inappropriate.
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I think this thread should be locked, because the title contains the words "bare" and "girls" and that is very disrespectful and inappropriate.
If you want it to be locked why not post a picture of a 60@+ :P
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I'm really hoping there's an autocorrect feature on the boards that changes "goat" to an underscore haha.
Frankly, I don't particularly want girls playing. 90% of why I go to tournaments is to bro it up and have silly-fun-times. Whenever girls around, the type of people that are generally attracted to this game tend to try to play cool to impress the girls and as a result become much less fun. How's that for some honesty?
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I find that pretty much all forums have a lot of bronies in them, message boards attract them like mosquitoes to a bug lamp.
We are every where..... hahahahahaha
Not here though. Don't like ponies.I think this thread should be locked, because the title contains the words "bare" and "girls" and that is very disrespectful and inappropriate.
I hope you are making a joke, cause if you are not, you are something of an idjit.
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Whenever girls around, the type of people that are generally attracted to this game tend to try to play cool to impress the girls and as a result become much less fun.
This is particularly troublesome since all the efforts of those guys are futile when the girls can't take their eyes off Polarius. So, Polarius wins the game and gets the girl, all while still being silly-fun. :o
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Not here though. Don't like ponies.I think this thread should be locked, because the title contains the words "bare" and "girls" and that is very disrespectful and inappropriate.
I hope you are making a joke, cause if you are not, you are something of an idjit.
Well, I thought it would be more obvious, but apparently either it was not or people just didn't think it was very funny. :P
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Well, I thought it would be more obvious, but apparently either it was not or people just didn't think it was very funny. :P
Since you did not mention goats, all will be forgiven. ;)
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@Eyes on Zion
Sorry we can't all be like u and be surrounded with so many girls we need time to get away from them and bro
It up at redemption tournaments lol jkjk
But in all honesty I think you can be silly and fun and act normal around girls idk y guys would feel the need to change anything. The only thought I would have would be tht potentially your inferring that there are some remarks that shouldn't be said around girls including things like flatulence ect ect.
However truth be told as I guy I'm not really trying to be in the middle of some of the "joking" many males enter into anyways.
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Yup.
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@Eyes on Zion
Sorry we can't all be like u and be surrounded with so many girls we need time to get away from them and bro
It up at redemption tournaments lol jkjk
But in all honesty I think you can be silly and fun and act normal around girls idk y guys would feel the need to change anything. The only thought I would have would be tht potentially your inferring that there are some remarks that shouldn't be said around girls including things like flatulence ect ect.
However truth be told as I guy I'm not really trying to be in the middle of some of the "joking" many males enter into anyways.
haha its all good bro. Well my girl was a funny, witty, strong willed and head strong women who was willing to play. She was definately beautiful but she was like one of the guys. We played video games too and that is when i would bring like 8 of my recruits from my youth group and we were really close so they all knew my girl and were comfortable around her. I guess it really depends on how willing the girl is and how accepting the play group is but all in all we shouldnt forget that this game represents someone who died for all.
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Well, Pol, if we're ever at a tournament together, I'll be sure to stay out of your "bro-ing it up," if that's how you feel about us womenfolk. Seriously, how rude! :P
In all honesty, I tell my female friends all the time that Redemption tournaments are great places for girls to hang out with real gentlemen. It's so nice to have a place to go and have fun with guys who are respectful and gentlemanly but don't lower their competitiveness when playing me. That being said, if I hadn't grown up in a Redemption community, I probably wouldn't find the game all that appealing now because the complex strategy, costliness, and male player dominance would be huge turnoffs.
That's my two cents.
~Britta
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Good for you. Spread the word. ;)
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complex strategy, costliness, and male player dominance would be huge turnoffs.
That is the problem. While costliness per say isn't a draw, collectibility is and some of the efforts to reduce costs to the average player make it not as collectible. Even more important imo is that complex strategy is a big draw to a lot of players. The efforts to make T2 more "fair", level the playing field, etc. have lessened the complex strategy and made it less interesting for some. Just to clarify, I don't mean that more complex rules are good; I don't know anyone that wants more complex rules just because you can have them.
So of course you have different groups of people with opposite interests; what makes the game better to one also makes it less to others. Sometimes you just have to pick your target audience and go for that. I don't see any way to appeal to all groups equally. The only option I do see is that you have different categories designed to appeal to different types of players. I used to think that was largely what sealed, type 1, and type 2 were for. Sealed was the less complex, less costly option. Type 2 was the more costly, more complex option. But it seems like they've tried to move away from that and make them equally accessible.
The way things currently are, I think it could be good for the game to have a faster playing (best out of 3 in 45 min?) simpler version, that is more accessible to new players. At the same time that kind of play will eventually bore me and others who enjoy things like long chess games, Axis and Allies, etc. For comparison, I have played multiple Magic games with up to 7 people in the commander format (100 cards, no duplicates) and they can last up to 5 hours. I know my wife would fall asleep or tear her hair out but for me it was great fun.
P.S. the reason my wife stopped playing was because of all the rule changes. It was challenging enough for her to learn the rules once and it wasn't worth her time or the frustration to have to keep relearning the rules.
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Well, Pol, if we're ever at a tournament together, I'll be sure to stay out of your "bro-ing it up," if that's how you feel about us womenfolk. Seriously, how rude!
Well, just like a womenfolk to fly off the handle :p But seriously, it's not the girls I have a problem with (from the little I know about you, you can hang), but the way the guys act when y'all are present. No, I don't mean no longer joking about (admittedly hilarious) bodily functions, but trying to flirt and failing in that special way only true nerds can. Which is in and of itself amusing, but only for a little while before it just becomes sad.
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Well, Pol, if we're ever at a tournament together, I'll be sure to stay out of your "bro-ing it up," if that's how you feel about us womenfolk. Seriously, how rude!
Well, just like a womenfolk to fly off the handle :p But seriously, it's not the girls I have a problem with (from the little I know about you, you can hang), but the way the guys act when y'all are present. No, I don't mean no longer joking about (admittedly hilarious) bodily functions, but trying to flirt and failing in that special way only true nerds can. Which is in and of itself amusing, but only for a little while before it just becomes sad.
It's like Raj in Big Bang Theory who can't talk whenever girls are in the room. Like, there are some girls at my university who can bro it up with the guys no problem, but there's some guys who are speechless in the presence of a woman.