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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: xCaLeBx on May 12, 2010, 09:36:11 PM

Title: God
Post by: xCaLeBx on May 12, 2010, 09:36:11 PM
If God can do and make anything, can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?
Title: Re: God
Post by: Sean on May 12, 2010, 09:41:42 PM
This question does not accomplish anything other than idle chatter that doesn't matter.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Josh on May 12, 2010, 09:42:51 PM
If God can do and make anything, can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?

That question begs other questions, but assuming it has an answer, I would say no.  God can do anything logically possible.  God cannot make 2 + 2 = 5 because 2 + 2 = 4 is true and God is Truth.  Saying God can't make 2 + 2 = 5 or make circular squares is like saying God cannot blah blah asdk;lfjasdfkjaskjdf blah blah.  The illogical part is meaningless, and therefore you aren't "shorting" God's power by saying He can't do something like that; you actually aren't saying anything at all.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Josh on May 12, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
This question does not accomplish anything other than idle chatter that doesn't matter.

I agree, this is the most important thing to keep in mind.   :)  It's not worth thinking about
Title: Re: God
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 12, 2010, 09:46:20 PM
If God can do and make anything, can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?
no. besides agreeing with Sean, I agree with hartz.
Title: Re: God
Post by: drb1200 on May 12, 2010, 09:58:13 PM
If God can do and make anything, can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?
You're asking if God CAN-NOT do something, which cancels itself.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Josh on May 12, 2010, 10:05:03 PM
If God can do and make anything, can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?
You're asking if God CAN-NOT do something, which cancels itself.

I wouldn't say that saying God cannot do something cancels itself out.  I can do something God can't - I can commit sins.  But God wouldn't be God if His nature wasn't perfect and therefore He could "choose" to sin.  I would say that God being unable to do something like sinning actually speaks TO His power, not a lack of it.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 12, 2010, 10:10:43 PM
God cannot do something that is against His nature.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Josh on May 12, 2010, 10:12:44 PM
God cannot do something that is against His nature.

Exactly. 
Title: Re: God
Post by: Red on May 12, 2010, 10:19:47 PM
To the OP:God cannot make a rock that big his power is limitless he could make a rock the size of infinte earths and lift it. also I agree with the other posters.
Title: Re: God
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 12, 2010, 10:28:46 PM
This question does not accomplish anything other than idle chatter that doesn't matter.
I actually find philosophical arguments quite stimulating. I love to get my brain going on God-related things, and I find it often leads to spiritual growth for me.

As to the actual question, I think God theoretically could do a lot of things that we will never see him do, such as create an obstacle he could not overcome, or perhaps destroy himself. However, he would not do such a thing, because it conflicts with his very essence.

I agree with Mr. Hartzler as well.
Title: Re: God
Post by: sk on May 12, 2010, 10:36:51 PM
In geology, rock is a naturally occurring solid aggregate of minerals and/or mineraloids. (via Wikipedia)

Thus, a rock cannot be made.

However, he would not do such a thing, because it conflicts with his very essence.

+1
Title: Re: God
Post by: drb1200 on May 12, 2010, 10:37:55 PM
In geology, rock is a naturally occurring solid aggregate of minerals and/or mineraloids. (via Wikipedia)

Thus, a rock cannot be made.

However, he would not do such a thing, because it conflicts with his very essence.

+1
Umm....God made rocks.  :police:
Title: Re: God
Post by: sk on May 12, 2010, 10:54:25 PM
God created land.  Erosion.  Rock.

If it was made by someone, it ceases to be a rock.  It is now a stone.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Master KChief on May 12, 2010, 11:06:45 PM
God created land.  Erosion.  Rock.

im pretty sure drb said that?
Title: Re: God
Post by: sk on May 12, 2010, 11:13:22 PM
As in, it was land.  When that land eroded, it BECAME a rock.  It was never a rock before that.
Title: Re: God
Post by: xCaLeBx on May 13, 2010, 10:15:15 AM
Well, I like sitting back and watching these arguments evolve.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 13, 2010, 10:56:06 AM
I can do something God can't - I can commit sins.
God CAN sin.  Because of God's nature, he always chooses NOT to sin.

God CAN make a rock so big that it can't be picked up.  And then God could pick it up.
Title: Re: God
Post by: xCaLeBx on May 13, 2010, 11:03:18 AM
I can do something God can't - I can commit sins.
God CAN sin.  Because of God's nature, he always chooses NOT to sin.

God CAN make a rock so big that it can't be picked up.  And then God could pick it up.
But, I said so big that he couldn't
Title: Re: God
Post by: ACe on May 13, 2010, 11:16:15 AM
God can do anything but he would always be able to pick up a rock! No matter how big he makes it even if its infinity times Jupiter!
Title: Re: God
Post by: Red on May 13, 2010, 11:22:44 AM

God CAN sin.  Because of God's nature, he always chooses NOT to sin.


God is perfect and Devine and he cannot do the oppsite of His perfecton which is sin. If God could sin he would not be God and thus God CANNOT sin my good professer. Also I do agree with the last part of your post.
Title: Re: God
Post by: xCaLeBx on May 13, 2010, 11:25:13 AM

God CAN sin.  Because of God's nature, he always chooses NOT to sin.


God is perfect and Devine and he cannot do the oppsite of His perfecton which is sin. If God could sin he would not be God and thus God CANNOT sin my good professer. Also I do agree with the last part of your post.
WRONG (oh look Bill is back)

he can but he won't
Title: Re: God
Post by: Red on May 13, 2010, 11:26:58 AM
Where does this doctine come from?   NOWHERE in the bible does it say God could sin.
Title: Re: God
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 13, 2010, 11:29:11 AM
God is perfect and Devine
I thought God's name was Yahweh...
Title: Re: God
Post by: Red on May 13, 2010, 11:30:57 AM
It is but most people know God as God. Not Yahweh.(I prefer Elohim)
Title: Re: God
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 13, 2010, 11:32:55 AM
It is but most people know God as God. Not Yahweh.(I prefer Elohim)
Apparently you prefer Devine. ;)
Title: Re: God
Post by: xCaLeBx on May 13, 2010, 11:34:10 AM
Where does this doctine come from?   NOWHERE in the bible does it say God could sin.
"wrong BOI!!!" thank you billy.

where does it say he can't?
Title: Re: God
Post by: Red on May 13, 2010, 11:36:53 AM
Where does this doctine come from?   NOWHERE in the bible does it say God could sin.
"wrong BOI!!!" thank you billy.

where does it say he can't?
Where does it say He can? If one is capable of sin he will sin. If on is capable of talking he will talk sooner or later. So if He can sin he would sin and no longer be God would he?
Title: Re: God
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 13, 2010, 11:43:47 AM
Where does it say He can? If one is capable of sin he will sin. If on is capable of talking he will talk sooner or later. So if He can sin he would sin and no longer be God would he?
I am capable of doing a lot of things that I have never and will never do.  I have the ability to cuss in this post for instance.  I have a keyboard with those letters on it.  I know how to spell the words.  My fingers are working.  But I'm not going to do it.

Also, the Bible says that Jesus was tempted just like we are tempted (but did not give in to that temptation).  If it was truly IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to sin, then there really wouldn't have been any temptation.  It is the fact that Jesus COULD have sinned, and yet chose NOT to, that is so amazing.
Title: Re: God
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 13, 2010, 11:44:33 AM
where does it say he can't?
Where does it say He can?
You seem a little confused. Where does the Bible say that God can turn you into a frog? I'm pretty sure nowhere. But does that mean he cannot? No. Because he is God. We naturally assume that he can do anything unless the Bible says that he cannot. In this case then, we do not need to find a passage that says God can sin. We need to find a passage that says he cannot or else we must infer that he can. Not the other way around.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Red on May 13, 2010, 11:52:38 AM
Anyways what was the purpose of this thread? Quit trying to understand God it makes my head hurt just thinking abhout it.
Title: Re: God
Post by: xCaLeBx on May 13, 2010, 11:55:23 AM
If we don't ask questions and explore possibilities we remain ignorant and stop learning :) thats a bad thing by the way.
Title: Re: God
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 13, 2010, 12:13:37 PM
Quit trying to understand God
Lol...
Title: Re: God
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 13, 2010, 01:04:42 PM
Also, the Bible says that Jesus was tempted just like we are tempted (but did not give in to that temptation).  If it was truly IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to sin, then there really wouldn't have been any temptation.  It is the fact that Jesus COULD have sinned, and yet chose NOT to, that is so amazing.
I love this argument, but it seems so ridiculous at times. the fact that Jesus was human and could have sinned but didn't is almost incomprehendable.
Title: Re: God
Post by: sk on May 13, 2010, 01:54:38 PM
James 1:13-15
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 13, 2010, 02:24:38 PM
Hebrews 4:14-15
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

I admit that it is somewhat difficult to align these apparently contradictory passages in the Bible, but here is my attempt.

The author of Hebrews and James must be using the word "tempted" in slightly different ways in the two passages of scripture above.  Based on the context, the author of Hebrews is using it in the standard way that we use it today.  In other words, it is talking about a pleasing presentation of the option to sin.  He clearly says that Jesus experienced this, but did not succumb to that presentation, but instead avoided the sin.

The context of James on the other hand, seems to indicate that he is using temptation as something that necessarily leads to sin.  Since Jesus did not end up sinning, then James is saying that He therefore must not have experienced this type of temptation.
Title: Re: God
Post by: lightningninja on May 13, 2010, 02:48:58 PM
Hm... I must say that this has become much more interesting than the opening topic.

I have always believed that it was contrary to God's very nature, and God's very essence, to sin, and therefore he could not do it.

And I believe the reason this debate will never end is that we are simply using the word "God." That doesn't solve anything. God the Father, I believe, cannot sin. God the Holy Spirit, likewise, is infinitely holy. God the Son, however, who is both 100% God and 100% man, can sin and as Prof pointed out, was tempted thus.

Therefore, I believe it comes down to a matter of your understanding of the Trinity. All three distinct persons of God are the same, yet they are unique. It is difficult to comprehend yet I believe Biblically confirmed. So therefore God the Son was tempted; God the Father was not. And I believe the verses you are taking about are talking about different persons of God. Now although I have absolutely no understand of the Trinity, like any human, the overly simplistic way I always viewed the Trinity was that they are the same entity, yet three distinct persons.

To answer your question, yes, Chuck Norris could lift the rock.  ;)
Title: Re: God
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 13, 2010, 03:07:45 PM
It [the Trinity] is difficult to comprehend yet I believe Biblically confirmed.
Actually I don't find the Trinity hard to understand really.  I explain how I see it here. (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12768.msg194948#msg194948)
Title: Re: God
Post by: ChristianSoldier on May 13, 2010, 03:54:19 PM
I wonder, what is the exact definition of sin?
Title: Re: God
Post by: lightningninja on May 13, 2010, 03:56:53 PM
Prof, I couldn't access that link.  :)
Title: Re: God
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 13, 2010, 04:04:31 PM
Prof, I couldn't access that link.  :)
try again, it worked for me (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12768.msg194948#msg194948)
Title: Re: God
Post by: xCaLeBx on May 13, 2010, 04:05:58 PM
I can't either...
Title: Re: God
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 13, 2010, 04:12:49 PM
Prof, I couldn't access that link.  :)
No problem, I'll copy and paste it below:

Many people have asked me over the years about how to understand the idea of the Trinity of God. With my background in science, I have found the best example to be one of the most common molecules on Earth...H2O!

Everyone is familiar with H2O, it can be a solid (ice), a liquid (water), or a gas (steam). They all three have different properties, but are still the same molecule. For instance, some forms are easier to see or touch than others.

They also have different primary purposes, but are still all the same molecule. Ice keeps things cold, Water quenches our thirst, and Steam can power an engine. Similarly, the Father determines the will of the entire Trinity, Jesus restores our relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit guides and comforts us in our daily lives.

Finally, they can all be in the same place at the same time. In science there is a phenomenon called the "triple point". At a certain temperature and pressure, a pure substance can be in all three forms at the same time.

For scriptural support of these ideas please go here. (http://www.studybibleforum.com/htm_php.php3?do=show_node&b=47&c=13&v=14&show_ti=40&show_ts=2&show_question_id=114492&show_user_id=0cbc0a77fc2729bceabb8148ec33338a)
For scientific support of these ideas please go here (http://library.thinkquest.org/C004970/states/triplep.htm) and here. (http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1012v1/css/h1012v1_68.htm)
Title: Re: God
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on May 13, 2010, 04:15:36 PM
My question is THIS, Why would he WANT or NEED to? God does nothing without reason.
Title: Re: God
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 13, 2010, 04:24:56 PM
My question is THIS, Why would he WANT or NEED to? God does nothing without reason.
NO ONE does anything without a reason. That's called an accident, and God does not make accidents. :)
Title: Re: God
Post by: hi123 on May 13, 2010, 05:05:03 PM
This question does not accomplish anything other than idle chatter that doesn't matter.
+1
Title: Re: God
Post by: Ben Wilk on May 13, 2010, 05:10:11 PM
Where does this doctine come from?   NOWHERE in the bible does it say God could sin.
"wrong BOI!!!" thank you billy.

where does it say he can't?
Where does it say He can? If one is capable of sin he will sin. If on is capable of talking he will talk sooner or later. So if He can sin he would sin and no longer be God would he?
Ok time for my  :2cents:. This is completely erelivent eather way god is perfect so why would this matter. If you really care then ask him when you die.
Title: Re: God
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 13, 2010, 05:17:21 PM
ask him when you die.
...mutter mutter...
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