Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: YourMathTeacher on January 23, 2011, 08:49:54 PM
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Since this ruling appears to be official, I would recommend that this thread be locked to avoid any more negativity, whether intended or not. There is very little good that continued debate can bring, IMO.
I mostly and strongly disagree with this statement.
There is much good that can come from debate and there is Biblical support for this. I will agree that not all debate is good, that sometimes it can be negative or should be avoided or limited. Some of the things said in that thread were not good but none of us are perfect and I see it as an opportunity for mercy and forgiveness. I think that much of the thread was spent debating how other people communicate. I do think that various people can learn and grow in that area and I wish that could take place in a different thread but I would like a chance to stick to and discuss the actual topic. I do not think that simply stopping all debate or communication as a way to avoid any possible disagreement is the answer.
That statement also assumes that no one else will have any valid points or questions to contribute. I was gone for 2? days and missed 9 pages and it is locked. So are we saying that if you don't live online and constantly check this then tough luck and your thoughts don't matter? I happen to have a few thoughts that I don't think were addressed in that thread (since so much of it was off-topic). I'm hoping to get a chance to do that here.
P.S. If we don't discuss things because they appear to be official then we wouldn't discuss most things and we would ignore the many official things that have changed.
P.S.S. I started with this off-topic post in hopes of avoiding any more of that (happy to discuss it eslewhere) and to not have this locked while trying to get understanding on the topic.
To Galadgawan:
1. Nothing changed by continuing the thread.
2. More negativity was brought into the thread.
The fact that y'all enjoy the negativity and call it "debate" is getting old. Frankly, so am I. Frankly, so is this Message Board. I would say that I will just come back here for Ruling Questions, but that clearly will do no good either.
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This is goodbye? I'll miss your posts...
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I will miss you.
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@YMT - if you are still posting, are you saying that his post brought more negativity into the discussion? I cant see it. His respose was respsctful and had many good points in it. Debating an issue in a respectful manner is part of who we are as americans. True there is no place for divisive debate that is merely pandering to the lowest common denominator but this does not qualify?
How is this offensive in any way?
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I think Jonathon had one of the more respectful posts of that entire thread.
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I think you're missing the broader point here. There is a lot of negativity on these boards, and that's not conducive to a Christian community. I think that we all can learn an important lesson here. Let's all try to be less negative, look at the positive side of everyone, and make this a place that YMT would want to return to.
I think that it is absolutely repulsive that your first instinct was to tell YMT that he was wrong. This is the exact reason one of my favorite people left.
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Hey Somekittens. Get repulsed about something else, I never said YMT was wrong. What really frustrates me is when people put words inother peoples mouth because they simply misread what someone said.
I never said YMT was wrong, I just asked "How is this offensive in any way"
because...
I think Jonathon had one of the more respectful posts of that entire thread.
I would agree with this statement and find it confusing that he would choose this post to make his point.
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I was made moderator of the ruling section board, toward the end of the debacle, but before the second topic had been locked.
I find your comments a personal slight against me - As Moderator of the section, it is up to me to determine when a topic has reached a point that is no longer prompting meaningful discussion, additonally it is up to me to determine if prior conversation in the topic was disrespectful, meaningless, or inapropriate.
While I did feel that the first instance of the thread was simply going in circles, Galadgywn did have a point in that because of the speed of conversation, if you're gone for a day, you can miss things. In the second thread additional negativity was not brought in - the same negativity was carried over into it, but the second thread didn't foster the negativity, Jon (Galadgywn) was more respectful than anyone else in the entire proccess - Additionally multiple Elders posted to the thread stating that it was unlikely to change, but encouraged him to bring up his points, and while Jon didn't have a completely new point (merely a rephrasing of an old one) the thread did lead to a couple of good analogies that helped me understand the ruling, and I'm sure they helped others also. When the second thread did go negative, not only was it locked, but I did delete posts from it that did not pertain to the question of the thread.
Furthermore, let this serve as a warning to those of you who cause tension in the Ruling Questions board, I intend to be a much more hands on moderator than my predecessor. I will not hesitate to delete posts or lock threads.
Thanks,
John.
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I agree there is a lot of negativity on this board. There is a lot of negativity all over the internet. There is a lot of negativity all over the world, and sadly, a lot of it is in churches. IMHO, I don't think that justifies leaving whatever community you are seeing negativity in. In fact, the places where you see bad things going on are the places where you should stay. Don't expect God's light to shine onto you, but strive for God's light to shine through you. All Christians have moments of weakness and times of struggle, and that's why it's necessary for us to stay together. We need to share God's love with one another.
YMT, you are a very highly valued member of this board. You provide great joy to all of us. You will never find a perfect community, so please don't give up on this one. But whatever you do, please do it with God's blessing. Peace to you.
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YMT,
I'm gonna miss ya buddy, on the boards that is. I'll keep in touch (So will the De La Rosas I'm sure). I can't wait to attend another tourney with you once you're ready to host again. Hopefully I'll start helping the Bros host down here upon my return from additional Coast Guard training...
In Christ,
Joshua
**P.S. I totally understand your choice of Quote and your decision. Praying for you and your family.
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Bummer. I feel the same way though. I might also leave soon... too much sarcasm for me. Haha
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I intend to be a much more liberal moderator than my predecessor. I will not hesitate to delete posts or lock threads.
And perhaps a more confused moderator ;)
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Sorry, I worded that poorly ;)
Happy now ;)
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Oh, I'm always happy. Sometimes my happiness is just so intense it appears to be a gryffin riding a unicycle into Mordor.
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:( I am really sad to see you leave YMT..... I will try to keep in contact via email but I will miss you. I understand where you are coming from. I wasn't part of the thread but there an be a lot of negativity. I'm with CS, I can't wait to play at another one of your tournaments. God bless, and may you and your family enjoy life.
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This forum feels empty now. There will never be a YMT wyn again.
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YMT...really? I have said it before, but it deserves being restated. We are called to be like Jesus, not like Mr. Rogers. Jesus was not always nice or positive. I think that when we ban negative comments, we remove a vital part of truly open discourse. I understand your frustration about these boards, but we can either run from the problems of the boards or we can stay and help be a part of the solution. I hope you will reconsider and put your valuable input back into this forum.
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+1 uthminister. I think YMT is being ridiculous, debating is a great useful thing and can be entertaining, just because you could have been proven wrong or are proven wrong doesn't mean you can start calling people unchristian and absolutely so negative its repulsive...I definately think uthminister's wording says it best "We're called to be like Jesus not Mr.Rogers" seriously as an adult I think we should all be mature enough to debate each other with out throwing temper tantrums and blaming everyone when you're proven wrong or beaten in a debate
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I believe what YMT is trying to say, and what happens all too often, is that these are not debates. The word "debate" on this forum is used as a mask to cover the sarcasm and negativity.
I've been in these kinds of debates way too often. Instead of a "you're wrong" to a comment, and an explanation why, you receive a "you must be as ignorant as you are inadequate at debating." I don't even remember the last time we had a debate where no one attacked another person with sarcastic remarks.
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On the same hand, we need to be aware of when we are being offensive for no reason and tone it down a bit. I have found that no matter how many emoticons you use, you cannot convey your real meaning and emotions very clearly with black and white text. This is where most misunderstaings come from. That is why so many people end up quoting and emphasizing what they meant to say, and even then are misunderstood. I agree with Galadgawyn that we need to be able to discuss things openly and have a free flowing forum where thoughts can be exchanged. I also belive that we can beat a dead horse until it is unrecognizable. I have much love for you all on these boards, but we need to be less hypersensitive and more gracefilled and loving. You give yourself the benefit of the doubt, so why not give others the same leeway. Or maybe it would be better said that God gives you the benefit of the doubt and forgives you, so shouldn't we do the same thing and forgive others?
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None of us are perfect [fact]
We are all sinners [fact]
Everyone is created unique [fact]
Everyone has their own opinion about everything [fact]
People love sharing their opinions. When you have so many people having a discussion on right and wrong in a ruling thread or any other matter, and everyone starts taking sides, it's a debate.
The word "debate" is interchangeable with dispute, argument, discussion, etc
In 1882, Rev. James Parker stated that "The spirit of debate is opposed to the spirit of love."
It is very fair and understandable to request that people keep discussions respectful, peaceful, and loving, but to expect perfection is also unreasonable.
-- YMT I had hoped for an opportunity to meet you one day. I was told it would completely change my opinion of you. I hear you are a person of respect, but at the same time, to me you are only a screen name. I hope you do not take us butting heads as personal, because in circumstances such as these, it is far from it.
In any event, as you have been an active member here, and for the most part added to the great atmosphere, I encourage you to overlook the drama, disrespect, arguments, etc, and re-consider sticking around.
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Everyone has their own opinion about everything [fact]
Opinion.
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Read that a couple times and just think about it.
I did, not really seeing where you are going with the comment.
Everyone has their own opinion about everything.... because they are unique and do not think in the same way. While some people share some opinions, everyone's opinion is their own, whether they chose to accept someone else's or not.
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What about those who have no opinion on a subject? Is having no opinion an opinion?
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I was made moderator of the ruling section board, toward the end of the debacle, but before the second topic had been locked.
I find your comments a personal slight against me - As Moderator of the section,...
My original post, that Galadgawan quoted, was from the first thread, so do not take it as a slight.
I agree there is a lot of negativity on this board. There is a lot of negativity all over the internet.
I won't be going to those sites either.
YMT...really?
Really.
-- YMT I had hoped for an opportunity to meet you one day. I was told it would completely change my opinion of you. I hear you are a person of respect,...
No, I'm just as annoying in person.
I hope you do not take us butting heads as personal, because in circumstances such as these, it is far from it.
I do not harbor any ill will toward you.
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I hope you do not take us butting heads as personal, because in circumstances such as these, it is far from it.
I do not harbor any ill will toward you.
Nor do I toward you :)
-- YMT I had hoped for an opportunity to meet you one day. I was told it would completely change my opinion of you. I hear you are a person of respect,...
No, I'm just as annoying in person.
Haha, that put a smile on my face :P But in all seriousness, some of my extremely "annoying" friends are also some of the funnest to hang out with :)
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What about those who have no opinion on a subject? Is having no opinion an opinion?
umm, getting off topic a little, but I am of the opinion that if you think about something or something is brought to your attention you either have an opinion or chose not to. Choosing not to is the result of another thought or opinion. Perhaps you simply do not care to have an opinion because you are preoccupied or it is not important to you or worth the energy.
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There is a difference between disagreeing and discussing something with someone and being negative. I had a co-worker/friend who is an Atheist and he and I would go back and forth all the time discussing our different points of view. Not once did either of us get upset, say anything negative about each other (Or their opinions), or have a disrespectful attitude towards the other. He was curious as to why I believe what I believe, and I was the same towards him. Probably the key was that we weren't trying to change the other person's opinion or "prove each other wrong." Yes, I think his beliefs are wrong, but what good would it do if I just told him he was wrong in his beliefs all the time?
Should we point out errors as Christians amongst our brethren? Yes, of course we should. However, we should do it with tact and respect towards one another. There is actually a process (Mentioned in the Bible) that we should go through in order to minimize the negativity and disrespect. I will include the passage later once I re-locate it, but:
First, we should always consult the Word of God.
Second, we point out the error (Why it is absolutely wrong).
Thirdly, we correct the problem.
Lastly, we determine the best way to maintain the correction so that we don't return to the same mind-set.
I encourage you to keep that in mind, give it a try sometime, and try to look at things from a different/new perspective whenever you get the chance.
In Christ,
-Joshua
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Read that a couple times and just think about it.
I did, not really seeing where you are going with the comment.
Everyone has their own opinion about everything.... because they are unique and do not think in the same way. While some people share some opinions, everyone's opinion is their own, whether they chose to accept someone else's or not.
Your statement is your opinion of the truth, not the truth.
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I am stating that saying that is your opinion and thus not fact.
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I am stating that saying that is your opinion and thus not fact.
Ok, if I say your screen name is Alex_Olijar, one could argue that is my opinion AND fact.
If I said your screen name was Bobby123, one could only make a sound argument that it is my opinion, not fact.
I stated,
"Everyone has their own opinion about everything [fact]"
I suppose you could make a case for how we define everything, but at the very least "Everyone has their own opinion". I base that on the fact that God made us each unique and with free will. Thus, what we think about things (our opinions) is our choice and also, our own.
btw- with your logic, I could say that because what you said is your opinion, it also is not true.
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I would argue that is not fact because that is not my screen name. I could give you my password and you could not log in to an account named "Alex_Olijar".
Everything is an indefineable quantity. You can not argue to everything because in every concept known to man there are exceptions.
Everyone does not have their own opinion. Have you ever looked at politics before? How many people in politics actually have their own opinions? They simply state whatever X candidate/politician/etc says is right.
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Everyone does not have their own opinion. Have you ever looked at politics before? How many people in politics actually have their own opinions? They simply state whatever X candidate/politician/etc says is right.
You are jumping to wild conclusions with that example.
a. you don't know if politicians are honest
b. you don't know if what they say is their opinion at all, or if they are just saying what they need to in order to get what they want
c. I can go on with this list for a very long time, but I think see get where i'm going
Just to clarify what i said before though. Just because you agree with someone, does not mean the shared opinion is not your own. It just means two people have the same opinion. (kind of like two people owning the same type of car)
also,
the definition of opinion is:
what or how one thinks about something
^o/c that can change depending on where you look it up. I got that from the Oxford English Dictionary (it's what they refer to as "general meaning")
Since, my use of "everything" was an oversight, would you agree that...
Everyone has their own opinion about everything the things they think about [fact] ? ::)
ps- sorry for getting very side-tracked. I forget who mods the Off-topic, but if you feel like splitting the thread... go for it :)
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Everything is an indefineable quantity. You can not argue to everything because in every concept known to man there are exceptions.
Concept known to man: Jesus loves us.
Are you saying that there are people whom Jesus does not love?
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No, I would not agree with that statement as long as it carries the word fact, because opinions are not facts, they are interpretations of facts, and facts are not able to be opinionated about - they are either true or false.
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No, I would not agree with that statement as long as it carries the word fact, because opinions are not facts, they are interpretations of facts, and facts are not able to be opinionated about - they are either true or false.
Whether my opinion is correct or not, it is a fact that I have my own opinion about the things I think about.
-C_S
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No, I would not agree with that statement as long as it carries the word fact, because opinions are not facts, they are interpretations of facts, and facts are not able to be opinionated about - they are either true or false.
Whether my opinion is correct or not, it is a fact that I have my own opinion about the things I think about.
-C_S
I think what Alex is trying to say is that you only THINK you have your own opinion ;)
I'm kidding :P hehehe
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Everyone does not have their own opinion. Have you ever looked at politics before? How many people in politics actually have their own opinions? They simply state whatever X candidate/politician/etc says is right.
Therefore, in their opinion, what that candidate says is right.
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Didn't read either of the above posts,but I will miss YMT.
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I like how theres an argument in a thread where someone said they are leaving due to all the arguments on the boards.
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If I could +1000 that I would, great comment Lambo.
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I like how theres an argument in a thread where someone said they are leaving due to all the arguments on the boards.
Back to the drawing boards....
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I like how theres an argument in a thread where someone said they are leaving due to all the arguments on the boards.
I wasn't under the impression he was leaving because of arguments. That would be unreasonable considering how many differences of opinions there are around here and everywhere for that matter. I was under the impression he was leaving because of the excessive negativity, and the attacks upon one another in the arguments. Consequently, if the "argument" me and Alex and others had was viewed as negative or disrespectful, then I really have no idea how to discuss anything without being disrespectful. I actually thought it was quite interesting and almost constructive (aside from the fact it was off-topic)
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See I feel like the argument about "opinion" kind of embodies the useless argumentation that gets so old on these boards. I mean Alex, if you really thought he meant EVERY single person on earth has an opinion about EVERYTHING, then your comment was warranted. I doubt that. Obviously no person even knows close to everything and therefore probably does not hold an opinion on it.
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When eye rolling smilies get involved, it does create an air of negativity.
See I feel like the argument about "opinion" kind of embodies the useless argumentation that gets so old on these boards. I mean Alex, if you really thought he meant EVERY single person on earth has an opinion about EVERYTHING, then your comment was warranted. I doubt that. Obviously no person even knows close to everything and therefore probably does not hold an opinion on it.
Agreed and it causes many to leave these boards. I could make a list of people close to me who have left due to it but honestly, I don't need nor want to. I understand everyone has an opinion but meaningless fights are not only a waste but also damaging, and this is coming from the TKP.
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There isn't anything here worth arguing about. Some of you guys seriously need another hobby. That's all.
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AN ARGUMENT IS A CONVERSATION WITH DIFFERING OPINIONS, getting past the negative connotation associated with the word argument, it isn't a bad thing.
See I feel like the argument about "opinion" kind of embodies the useless argumentation that gets so old on these boards. I mean Alex, if you really thought he meant EVERY single person on earth has an opinion about EVERYTHING, then your comment was warranted. I doubt that. Obviously no person even knows close to everything and therefore probably does not hold an opinion on it.
True, Alex was being a little picky when he posted that, but it wasn't a big deal at all, nor did it turn into a big deal until several started raving about some terrible argument taking place, when in all honestly it was a banter of a conversation.
-- if you are really talking about mine and Alex's banter as something negative or as a fight, it is far from it. Sheeeesh. Yeah, there are some pretty ugly discourses around here, but this was neither heated, filled with attacks, nor that serious. It was was a fun amusing conversation regarding my comment, opinions and relativism between some members around here.
Stop over-dramaticizing it. Pretty soon we'll have to stop having conversations entirely because they will all be labeled negative or a fight.
I'm not saying there are not negative conversations around here, but if you go around calling them that, you make it a self-fullfilling prophecy.
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I like how theres an argument in a thread where someone said they are leaving due to all the arguments on the boards.
The only thing missing is something funny posted by me to hopefully lighten the mood.
Q: What do you get when you run over a canary with a lawn mower?
A: Shredded Tweet
(*Had to borrow that one from Ted Moseby.) ;D
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I like how theres an argument in a thread where someone said they are leaving due to all the arguments on the boards.
The only thing missing is something funny posted by me to hopefully lighten the mood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
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I'm going to stop posting here until people can realize that disagreement =/= terrible arguments.
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I like how theres an argument in a thread where someone said they are leaving due to all the arguments on the boards.
The only thing missing is something funny posted by me to hopefully lighten the mood.
I remember when YMT used to post funny things... ='[
Oh hey, by the way, speaking of arguments/disagreements... Did I post about my achieving speaking in the fourth person? Yeah, I was on my way home at 3am and I started having a conversation with myself about having a conversation with myself. Good talk.
-C_S
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I'm going to stop posting here until people can realize that disagreement =/= terrible arguments.
You should stop posting until you can realize that disagreement =/= constructive argumentation.
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I'm going to stop posting here until people can realize that disagreement =/= terrible arguments.
You should stop posting until you can realize that disagreement =/= constructive argumentation.
One observer's angry exchange is another participant's pleasant discourse. Who are you to say what is constructive?
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Gotta love the irony of this topic :p.
I shall miss your humor on these boards, YMT.
Though, the only reason I'm not joining the exodas is because of the debates/arguments/whatever ya want to call them (though, they do get too long for my short attention/memory).
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Peace all.
I guess we should all agree that at this point we can let this family discussion rest for now, and bring all of our comments in our prayers.
We all have learned our lessons from this experience.
This thread is purposely not locked for I believe that the intelligent and prudent mind should understand that we have essentially concluded this discourse, and thus should not post any more after this.
Godbless.
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Roy, you have a PM.
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To the well wishers, thank you for your kind words. There are those that I will miss greeting daily. God Bless!
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At this point my email address has been finally updated, so you can send me a PM if anyone is trying to reach me. Do not just post on the boards, since I will not see it. Farewell.
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Acquaintances will come and go, but true friends accumulate.
We will miss you YMT.