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I am unsure if this the correct forum to ask this question, but who is the Captain of the Host, both the Redemption card and The one in Joshua 5:14. Having searched the web a bit I have come across several theories and I would like some of the opinions of you guys. Who was he? Was he Jesus preincarnate(he accepted reverance from Joshua), Is he Michael the Archangel(He leads the army of the LORD), or was just "A" captain of the Host?Also an interesting article here about whether Jesus *is* Michael the Archangel, I don't think he is but it is interesting: http://www.remnantofgod.org/Michael.htm
I don't want to start a whole argument... but why?
Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat:ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum,Christus Filius tuus qui,regressus ab inferis,humano generi serenus illuxit,et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum.
May the Morning Star which never setsfind this flame still burning:Christ, that Morning Star,who came back from the dead,and shed his peaceful light on all mankind,your Son, who lives and reigns for ever and ever.
And the Roman Rite is the Bible how?
What language is that in?
Quote from: lightningninja on May 06, 2009, 06:01:43 PMWhat language is that in?Latin. I've done a much more comprehensive word study on it, that's not the only use of the word "lucifer" to describe Jesus, it's just the most convenient. There's several instances in the Bible, I just don't feel like browsing through the Vulgate.
Quote from: Colin Michael on May 06, 2009, 06:04:36 PMQuote from: lightningninja on May 06, 2009, 06:01:43 PMWhat language is that in?Latin. I've done a much more comprehensive word study on it, that's not the only use of the word "lucifer" to describe Jesus, it's just the most convenient. There's several instances in the Bible, I just don't feel like browsing through the Vulgate.The new testament is Greek.
What about the scripture in Isaiah(don't remember the verse), and it says "Oh Lucifer, the morning star, you who laid low the nations." Then it talks about how he sinned and fell, the one who was once perfect was now stained with win, I believe it says, or something close... Are you saying that Jesus sinned?
But what about Captain of the Host, who is he supposed to be?
Quote from: Korunks on May 07, 2009, 08:01:31 AMBut what about Captain of the Host, who is he supposed to be?Jesus preincarnate. angels cannot accept reverence.
Quote from: Master KChief on May 07, 2009, 11:43:12 AMQuote from: Korunks on May 07, 2009, 08:01:31 AMBut what about Captain of the Host, who is he supposed to be?Jesus preincarnate. angels cannot accept reverence.I think that's jumping to conclusions pretty far.
Isaiah 14:12 is actually the only appearance of "heylel", or Lucifer, in the Bible, and it refers to the Babylonian king. But it basically amounts to name-calling, much like when Jesus told Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan!" To whit, there are often strong correlations drawn between evil kings in the Bible and the idea that their actions reflected Satan or were guided by him (see also: the whole Tyre thing in Ezekiel 28). The only appearance of the Greek equivalent, "phosphoros", is in 2 Peter 1:19. That passage is in reference to Jesus, but the different time periods, languages, contexts (particularly prophecy) makes the argument that they refer to the same person less than convincing.The name Lucifer was equated with Satan for much the same reason that we equate "King of Tyrus" with Satan; we took a metaphorical name from prophecy and applied it to the angel who himself was once the brightest star in the heavens.
well personally,i believe that God did not put certain things in the Bible for a purpose.......the sub-stories and details that could have been included are not nearly as important as the story and ancestry of Jesus and the redemptive aspect of his death on the cross. If He truely wanted us to know EVERYTHING he would not have let us "fall" or, better yet, he would have made us direct incarnations of Himself. Ideas formulated on things unstated or unknown is conjecture. Also due to the many translation errors....it is almost impossible to directly understand subtleties in the original languages. Also many documetns that contain "factual information" of Biblical identities, despite possibly being accepted due to relegious concerns, contain rather absurd and peculiar accounts of the lives of the topic person/character.......read the Bible and don't worry about the tiny details of the unknown........well that's my two cents
There's nothing to suggest that "heylel" is a name or a proper noun. To use it to refer to Satan is far more ambiguous.
I obviously don't think God "put" anything in the Bible, but that's just me.
Quote from: Colin Michael on May 07, 2009, 09:37:49 PMThere's nothing to suggest that "heylel" is a name or a proper noun. To use it to refer to Satan is far more ambiguous.So you're saying it's makes more sense to say Lucifer refers to Jesus than Lucifer refers to anybody at all? How does that work?
Quote from: Colin Michael on May 07, 2009, 11:00:52 PMI obviously don't think God "put" anything in the Bible, but that's just me.would you agree that the writings included in, perhaps, a cornerstone of our faith were, at least, devinely inspired?
No, it makes more sense to say that it was an allusion to Venus.
In the same way that Phaedo was inspired by Socrates and the Matrix was inspired by Descartes, yeah.
Quote from: Colin Michael on May 07, 2009, 11:06:40 PMNo, it makes more sense to say that it was an allusion to Venus.Not in the context I laid out.
Quote from: Colin Michael on May 07, 2009, 11:06:40 PMIn the same way that Phaedo was inspired by Socrates and the Matrix was inspired by Descartes, yeah.so do you think that God had absolutely nothing to with the writting of the "WORD OF GOD"? just wondering
The word "Lucifer" isn't a name, at least, unless it's in reference to Jesus.
In fact, we don't even know what the word "heylel" means.
I personally think that abandoning your reliance on scripture opens your eyes to the reality of Christianity and the gospel.
I personally think that abandoning your reliance on scripture opens your eyes to the reality of Christianity and the gospel. Otherwise, your faith is just full of contradictions, errors, and choosing verses to reinforce what you've already been taught to believe.
Suit yourself. I'm content to trust that there are smart people in the world, who don't just make stuff up.
No, I'm going to accept centuries of scholarship on the word until you give me a better reason to shift my paradigm.
And?
Jesus has like a hundred different names in prophecy,
And I'm pointing out to you that, despite your claims, this is the only place the name appears in Scripture. So the whole notion of "other than Jesus" actually encompasses all references.
By that you mean in the English translation of scripture. In the Vulgate, the first appearance of the word in the Bible, it is left uncapitalised.
Quote from: Colin Michael on May 08, 2009, 11:16:18 AMBy that you mean in the English translation of scripture. In the Vulgate, the first appearance of the word in the Bible, it is left uncapitalised.No, I mean it's the only place the word appears in Scripture.
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Topic: Captain of the Host (Read 12148 times)
