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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Glorfindel 12 on January 23, 2010, 01:21:06 PM

Title: Books
Post by: Glorfindel 12 on January 23, 2010, 01:21:06 PM
Has anyone read any books by Ted Dekker cause I just finished one of his books and was looking for something else to read by him or any other author that writes christian books.  
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Professoralstad on January 23, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
I've read quite a few of Dekker's books. Some of them I thought were great (the Circle Trilogy, Blink, Thr3e) and some I thought were a little too weird/boring (Sinner, Showdown, House). He has written tons of books, and in fairly short time frames, and I thought that some of them reflected the little amount of time he spent on them. But he also has a talent for writing some awesome books fairly quickly too.

Another Christian author whose books I have always enjoyed (with the exception of House, which he co-authored with Dekker) is Frank Peretti. This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness are his two most famous books, and they are great. Also, The Oath, Prophet, The Visitation, and Monster are all good too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Glorfindel 12 on January 23, 2010, 01:33:25 PM
I've read a few of the books you mentioned, yes it is quite remarkable that someone could write as large a book as the Circle Trilogy in so short a time. I myself have been writing for quite some time and still haven't been able to finish even one book!  Any other books or authors you would recommend?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: LadyNobody on January 23, 2010, 03:21:08 PM
Well, you have to understand that Ted's entire life basically consists of writing. His inner circle often jokes that they are keeping him under lock and key while he writes his next novel.

Anyway, I have enjoyed every one of his books, except Heaven's Wager, which moved way too slowly for me to get into it. My absolute favorite book by him is When Heaven Weeps. I would also recommend Thunder of Heaven, Blink, and Obsessed.

EDIT: Spoiler...I don't think it really says a whole lot, seeing as how it pretty much states it on the cover, but I will oblige the request.

Spoiler (hover to show)

On a side note, I had a dream not too long ago that Ted offered to coauthor a book with me. I was very excited about it...until I woke up and realized it was a dream.

~Britta
Title: Re: Books
Post by: sk on January 23, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
I agree with the Professor.  I really liked Thr3e, Obsessed, Blink (the good edition) and Black.  The rest just seemed like the same thing with differently named characters -- especially Adam and Boneman's Daughter (although I did read the latter just after seeing Taken).  I have yet to read Green, but a friend that has read it had the same opinion as Britta.

I really like Peretti as well, as his style of writing slowly gives an 'epic' feel to his novels, which I really like.  But the two authors together don't work in House -- Dekker's style of fiction doesn't mesh with Peretti's.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on January 23, 2010, 07:10:01 PM
I just finished Green yesterday, and I really liked it, except for the fact that it literally completes the circle and thus frustrated me. He needs to write a true ending to that story and tell us all what happens to Samuel.
please edit your spoiler for people who haven't read Green.

Green is fantastic. best Dekker book ever. Obsessed and Blink are VERY good as well. Burn isn't amazing so far...
I agree with the Professor.  I really liked Thr3e, Obsessed, Blink (the good edition) and Black.  The rest just seemed like the same thing with differently named characters -- especially Adam and Boneman's Daughter
and Kiss.

Title: Re: Books
Post by: Tsavong Lah on January 23, 2010, 09:41:43 PM
I agree; Dekker is hit and miss. When he hits, though, he writes some pretty great stuff.

Anyway, what do you mean by "Christian books"? Are you looking for Christian fiction exclusively, or is nonfiction/theology open for reccomendation? ;)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on January 23, 2010, 11:21:35 PM
it gives away the end! yes, it was expected, but still.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: JSB23 on January 24, 2010, 12:01:19 AM
Wait, was Green a comic book?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on January 24, 2010, 09:24:40 AM
Wait, was Green a comic book?
it probably will be.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Glorfindel 12 on January 26, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
I agree; Dekker is hit and miss. When he hits, though, he writes some pretty great stuff.

Anyway, what do you mean by "Christian books"? Are you looking for Christian fiction exclusively, or is nonfiction/theology open for reccomendation? ;)
Well as long as it isn't "DARK" and so unbelievable that its dumb.  Books I wouldn't read because of certain issues that I believe don't line up with my worldview are Harry Potter and the Twilight series and there are others but I'm open to suggestions that are fictional as long as they don't have any characters preforming dark arts.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 26, 2010, 10:02:17 PM
I agree; Dekker is hit and miss. When he hits, though, he writes some pretty great stuff.

Anyway, what do you mean by "Christian books"? Are you looking for Christian fiction exclusively, or is nonfiction/theology open for reccomendation? ;)
Well as long as it isn't "DARK" and so unbelievable that its dumb.  Books I wouldn't read because of certain issues that I believe don't line up with my worldview are Harry Potter and the Twilight series and there are others but I'm open to suggestions that are fictional as long as they don't have any characters preforming dark arts.
Well there goes LOTR.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on January 26, 2010, 10:03:41 PM
It's a shame you can't read the Chronicles of Narnia, too.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on January 26, 2010, 11:06:04 PM
I suppose he plays Redemption because "it's Christian."

(I mean no offense by this, I'm talking about my own past before I realized basically what RR and Pol were saying.)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Glorfindel 12 on January 27, 2010, 12:13:01 AM
I agree; Dekker is hit and miss. When he hits, though, he writes some pretty great stuff.

Anyway, what do you mean by "Christian books"? Are you looking for Christian fiction exclusively, or is nonfiction/theology open for reccomendation? ;)
Well as long as it isn't "DARK" and so unbelievable that its dumb.  Books I wouldn't read because of certain issues that I believe don't line up with my worldview are Harry Potter and the Twilight series and there are others but I'm open to suggestions that are fictional as long as they don't have any characters preforming dark arts.
Well there goes LOTR.
When do they use dark arts? I personally have read and studied LOTR and this is certainly news to me! ???
It's a shame you can't read the Chronicles of Narnia, too.
The Chronicles of Narnia is parallel to the Bible.  Both Tolkien (author of LOTR) and Lewis (author of Chronicles of Narnia) were Spirit filled Christians. Please, fellows examine these works more closely before you rule them out as non Christian!  ;)
I suppose he plays Redemption because "it's Christian."

(I mean no offense by this, I'm talking about my own past before I realized basically what RR and Pol were saying.)
By your above statement what are you implying? I don't understand this statement would you please explain further? Not to be offensive but yes I do play Redemption because it is a Christian game!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on January 27, 2010, 12:36:18 AM
Quote
Well as long as it isn't "DARK" and so unbelievable that its dumb.  Books I wouldn't read because of certain issues that I believe don't line up with my worldview are Harry Potter and the Twilight series and there are others but I'm open to suggestions that are fictional as long as they don't have any characters preforming dark arts.
In this thread, you said you wouldn't read "DARK" Christian books because they don't line up with your worldview. You also said that you are open to other fictional series as long as they don't have the dark arts, then defend LotR and Chronicles because even though they have the dark arts, they have Christian authors. Wut?

Also, Harry Potter has a Christian author and a more directly Christian message than LotR, but you won't read those books. Your logic is about as consistent as the current REG.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on January 27, 2010, 12:40:02 AM
Quote
characters preforming dark arts.

That's why it rules out LoTR and The Chronicles,

Sauroman anyone? How about the Witch of Winter?

They are allegories yes, but they do indeed include so called 'dark arts'

EDIT: Instaposted: Hah, I loled at the REG comment.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on January 27, 2010, 09:24:30 AM
I suppose he plays Redemption because "it's Christian."

(I mean no offense by this, I'm talking about my own past before I realized basically what RR and Pol were saying.)
By your above statement what are you implying? I don't understand this statement would you please explain further? Not to be offensive but yes I do play Redemption because it is a Christian game!
correction, you play Redemption because it's fun. it's also Christian, which makes you comfortable playing it because it's not going to have anything horrible.  I was just chuckling because you remind me a lot of myself a few years ago.
Quote
Well as long as it isn't "DARK" and so unbelievable that its dumb.  Books I wouldn't read because of certain issues that I believe don't line up with my worldview are Harry Potter and the Twilight series and there are others but I'm open to suggestions that are fictional as long as they don't have any characters preforming dark arts.
In this thread, you said you wouldn't read "DARK" Christian books because they don't line up with your worldview. You also said that you are open to other fictional series as long as they don't have the dark arts, then defend LotR and Chronicles because even though they have the dark arts, they have Christian authors. Wut?

Also, Harry Potter has a Christian author and a more directly Christian message than LotR, but you won't read those books. Your logic is about as consistent as the current REG.
Harry Potter has a Christian author? never knew this. I used to not want to read Harry Potter because he's a wizard and uses magic... now I just don't want to take the time them. I still have Burn to finish, and Tea with Hezbollah comes out soon...

on a side note, my youth pastor has read both Harry Potter and Twilight. He saw nothing wrong with Mr. Potter, and enjoyed it very much. Twilight on the other hand... has some things... not good... yeah...

now, if the books describe how to use dark arts, then I would say stay away from it. but if it's like Lord of the Rings or Narnia or Potter, and just explain what's happening because of the arts, then it's fine.

hahahahaha, REG logic...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on January 27, 2010, 01:12:59 PM
Yeah, Twilight is no good in addition to being porn for women. But I digest.

The thing about Harry Potter is that he's using "magic" or whatever, but it's not occult magic. The only "real" spell in the book is the Avada Kadavre (Abra Kadabra) curse, which is only used by the most evil wizards. The rest of the spells (even the two other unforgivable curses) are just Latin, basically.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: LadyNobody on January 30, 2010, 09:03:36 PM
Yeah, Twilight is no good in addition to being porn for women. But I digest.

What exactly are you digesting, may I ask? Or do I not want to know? ;)

~Britta
Title: Re: Books
Post by: franta012 on March 08, 2010, 12:28:11 AM
Quote
Yeah, Twilight is no good in addition to being porn for women. But I digest.
You digest?  hahaha digress ;)

...Britta beat me to it.

On a more serious note, I have read all of the series mentioned here and I highly recommend them all except Twilight, which is garbage imo.  I would not describe any of them as not Christian.
I've read quite a few of Dekker's books. Some of them I thought were great (the Circle Trilogy, Blink, Thr3e) and some I thought were a little too weird/boring (Sinner, Showdown, House). He has written tons of books, and in fairly short time frames, and I thought that some of them reflected the little amount of time he spent on them. But he also has a talent for writing some awesome books fairly quickly too.

Another Christian author whose books I have always enjoyed (with the exception of House, which he co-authored with Dekker) is Frank Peretti. This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness are his two most famous books, and they are great. Also, The Oath, Prophet, The Visitation, and Monster are all good too.

I actually agree with every single thing in this post.  I loved the Circle, Blink, and Obsessed.  Otherwise, I don't like his writing.  And I agree with Britta, I was very displeased with the ending of Green. 
Spoiler (hover to show)
Very hit-and-miss.
Frank Peretti was my favorite author for years and This Present Darkness my favorite book for years. 

Now it's probably Battle Royale.  Just curious, has anyone else ever read it?  That was the most emotional book I have ever read.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: lightningninja on March 08, 2010, 01:39:51 AM
This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darnkess are the two best Christian fiction books I have ever read.

As for Chronicles of Narnia, this is CLEARLY not the "dark arts." Yes, there is a wizard or two, clearly representing demons or even Satan, and Satan has power. However, the witch never casts spells (am I wrong on this? It's been years), and it's a clear representation of real demonic forces, which exist.

LOTR, was NOT based on Christian views. You can draw parallels, sure, but he was not trying to, any symbolisms were just parts of his worldview leaking out in his writing. In fact, he insulted C.S. Lewis for making the Bible and God's story a series of children's books, and condoned that type of writing. As for the "dark arts" once again, I believe that it represents evil. Evil DOES have power, there's nothing wrong about that.

Which is why I make the distinction between the types of magic used in LOTR and Harry Potter (which I have not read, correct me if I'm wrong about any of my facts). In Harry Potter, magic is encouraged and regarded as good (as long as you use it right), and the best characters use magic and it's regarded as a good thing. In addition, there is an especially large amount of the theme of magic involving children, which I think is much less edifying. The difference in LOTR is that magic is looked upon as evil, the ring must be destroyed and even Gandalf didn't become corrupt in order to gain power, like Sarumon. Those who use sorcery are evil, and so LOTR keeps a common theme of "magic = evil, non-magic = neutral." The winning side didn't use magic, they destroyed it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: redemption101 on March 08, 2010, 08:59:57 AM
As for Chronicles of Narnia, this is CLEARLY not the "dark arts." Yes, there is a wizard or two, clearly representing demons or even Satan, and Satan has power. However, the witch never casts spells (am I wrong on this? It's been years), and it's a clear representation of real demonic forces, which exist.

-Prince caspian they attempt to summon the white whitch through dark majic
-Magicains nephew the white which kills every one with the "word"
-the white whitch's wand
good spells
-aslan comming back to life from "the deep magic"
- if you can say prophecy is magic in a land of magic then you also have the foretelling of the white which's death
- magic horn that calls the kids back to Narnia
- a portal that send them back to thier world
-a bow that never misses - had to be imbude with something

maybe some of those are stretches but that was i rember from the top of my head and only from 3 books.

 That being said I personally find nothing wrong with probably 90% of the books that i have read in the fantasy category.   The ones that get dropped are the ones that focuses more on the intimicies of the charecter then on the story them selves.  

To give you an idead on how much i have read.  Since this winter break i have read 40-50 books.  

well i have to commute to school in 5 mins so i got to go will add more later


 
 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 08, 2010, 09:33:49 AM
As for Chronicles of Narnia, this is CLEARLY not the "dark arts." Yes, there is a wizard or two, clearly representing demons or even Satan, and Satan has power. However, the witch never casts spells (am I wrong on this? It's been years), and it's a clear representation of real demonic forces, which exist.

LOTR, was NOT based on Christian views. You can draw parallels, sure, but he was not trying to, any symbolisms were just parts of his worldview leaking out in his writing. In fact, he insulted C.S. Lewis for making the Bible and God's story a series of children's books, and condoned that type of writing. As for the "dark arts" once again, I believe that it represents evil. Evil DOES have power, there's nothing wrong about that.

Which is why I make the distinction between the types of magic used in LOTR and Harry Potter (which I have not read, correct me if I'm wrong about any of my facts). In Harry Potter, magic is encouraged and regarded as good (as long as you use it right), and the best characters use magic and it's regarded as a good thing. In addition, there is an especially large amount of the theme of magic involving children, which I think is much less edifying. The difference in LOTR is that magic is looked upon as evil, the ring must be destroyed and even Gandalf didn't become corrupt in order to gain power, like Sarumon. Those who use sorcery are evil, and so LOTR keeps a common theme of "magic = evil, non-magic = neutral." The winning side didn't use magic, they destroyed it.
as far as Narnia goes, see R101's post. although, the cordial could be mentioned as well.

LOTR was a mythology. read the beginning chapters of The Simarillion. necessary to be making any claims about LOTR, as Tolkien never intended The Hobbit to be the prologue instead of The Simarillion. a quick sum up, Illuvitar creates man and elves, angels (don't remember exactly what they were called), Valar, and Mayar. among the angels, Manwe was the greatest singer (which was how they praised Illuvitar), and eventually became prideful and rebelled against Illuvitar. changed his name to Morgoth. does this sound familiar?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 08, 2010, 12:45:20 PM
Quote
LOTR, was NOT based on Christian views.
Blatantly false. LotR was not a Christian allegory (or pseudo-allegory like Narnia) but was very much based on Christian views.

Quote
Those who use sorcery are evil, and so LOTR keeps a common theme of "magic = evil, non-magic = neutral." The winning side didn't use magic, they destroyed it.
Gandalf? Galadriel? Elrond? You seem to be saying that your problem with HP is that good characters use magic and it's seen as a good thing. Well...same with LotR. Narnia less so because no heroes actually cast spells, but they do use magic items fairly frequently. And in all of these cases, magic is a mere story device. There are no occult spells in HP, and the only one that's based on a real spell (Avada Kedavre from Abra Kedabra) is the most evil spell that's only used by the most evil characters and they are strongly condemned for it.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: lightningninja on March 08, 2010, 02:13:51 PM
-Prince caspian they attempt to summon the white whitch through dark majic
Yeah, the movie, they didn't do this in the book.
-Magicains nephew the white which kills every one with the "word"
Symbolic of evil
-the white whitch's wand
Same as above
-aslan comming back to life from "the deep magic"
Biblical reference, so did God.
- if you can say prophecy is magic in a land of magic then you also have the foretelling of the white which's death
the Bible has prophets, this isn't dark magic.
- magic horn that calls the kids back to Narnia
Given by God. I've always thought this symbolic of praying.
- a portal that send them back to thier world
Seriously? That's not magic.
-a bow that never misses - had to be imbude with something
David didn't miss, see the resemblence?
My responses above in blue. :)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 08, 2010, 02:52:29 PM
-Prince caspian they attempt to summon the white whitch through dark majic
Yeah, the movie, they didn't do this in the book.
actually, it's in the book. "Draw the circle, and prepare the blue fire!" but in the movie they actually summon her, in the book, it's just beginning to happen before the Pevensies come in.
-Magicains nephew the white which kills every one with the "word"
Symbolic of evil
it's still magic.
-the white whitch's wand
Same as abovesame as above
-aslan comming back to life from "the deep magic"
Biblical reference, so did God.
so then, if God uses magic, then how can you say it's evil :P
- if you can say prophecy is magic in a land of magic then you also have the foretelling of the white which's death
the Bible has prophets, this isn't dark magic.
I agree.
- magic horn that calls the kids back to Narnia
Given by God. I've always thought this symbolic of praying.symbolic, maybe, but still magic.
- a portal that send them back to thier world
Seriously? That's not magic.
the portal could be arguably said to be made by magic. if it's not magic, what is it? haha.
-a bow that never misses - had to be imbude with something
David didn't miss, see the resemblence?
David didn't miss, but he could have (and probably did a lot of the time). "If you trust in this bow, it is not likely to miss" I believe in the quote, so then, it must have had some magic in it to be able to feel the trust inside of susan, and magically hit the target.
My responses above in blue. :)
my responses above in glowy red!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 08, 2010, 03:31:46 PM
Quote
My responses above in blue. Why? Just to make it inconvenient and hard to read? My responses in black.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 08, 2010, 04:06:56 PM
Quote
My responses above in blue. Why? Just to make it inconvenient and hard to read? My responses in black.
hahahahahaha. win.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: redemption101 on March 08, 2010, 05:49:45 PM
As to lightning ninja responses,   ringwraith was on par with what i would say.   

The point that i was trying to make is that there is indisputable evidence of magic on both sides in the series the chronicals of Narnia .  Though many parrellals can be drawn to the Bible it still dosen't negate how it was portrayed in the book.   IF you believe that if it is shown in the Bible or can be drawn to the biblical view then it is okay, then by this logic i can prove that alot of questionable books are okay. 

Using Harry Potter because its the most well known
Murdering splits the soul - the mark of cain maybe not a physical rending of the soul but there is still an indelliable mark.

book 7 many people sacrifice themselves to try and  rid the place of evil, ever heard of a mayter

Lilly potters sacrifice - protects harry from a form of evil,   holy spirit protects us from demonic possesion, 

Good wins in the End -Revaltion

hp having 2 close friends helping him through trials - Ecclesiastes 4:12

the list goes onbut i need dinner,  please do not be offronted i'm just trying to show there are always parrelles in every book,
 
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Glorfindel 12 on March 08, 2010, 11:23:07 PM
Quote
Well as long as it isn't "DARK" and so unbelievable that its dumb.  Books I wouldn't read because of certain issues that I believe don't line up with my worldview are Harry Potter and the Twilight series and there are others but I'm open to suggestions that are fictional as long as they don't have any characters preforming dark arts.
In this thread, you said you wouldn't read "DARK" Christian books because they don't line up with your worldview. You also said that you are open to other fictional series as long as they don't have the dark arts, then defend LotR and Chronicles because even though they have the dark arts, they have Christian authors. Wut?


Also, Harry Potter has a Christian author and a more directly Christian message than LotR, but you won't read those books. Your logic is about as consistent as the current REG.
First of all, to clarify, I did not say "DARK" Christian books as this would be an oxymoron.  A dark book cannot be a Christian book.  The scripture clearly states that we are not to dabble in the occult or traffic with mediums or we will pollute our souls (Lev 19:31, 20:6).  I have not read Harry Potter but I do know that the author is not a Christian.  The LOTR's author was a Christian.  In Tolkien's biography, by Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien was quoted as defining a wizard as somebody who is extremely skilled in or knowledgeable about something, which coincides with the Encarta Dictionary's definition of wizard.  The only magic in LOTR was used by evil characters.  The theme of good v. evil is clearly depicted in the LOTR books (not so clear in the Hollywood movies).  In Harry Potter and Twilight magic is used by the "good" characters, therefore indicating occultic practices are acceptable.  Neither of these series (Harry Potter and Twilight) depict anything even near Christianity.  I fail to find any fallacies in my logic, having studied logic extensively.  Lastly, as long as the dark arts are clearly shown as dark arts, as in LOTR and Chronicles and Perreti's or Dekker's books, I am not opposed to reading.  But in Harry Potter and Twilight the good v. evil is subtley twisted.  Making it difficult for those not strong in their faith to discern the evil therein.  P.S. wut is spelled what.   
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 08, 2010, 11:38:23 PM
Quote
Well as long as it isn't "DARK" and so unbelievable that its dumb.  Books I wouldn't read because of certain issues that I believe don't line up with my worldview are Harry Potter and the Twilight series and there are others but I'm open to suggestions that are fictional as long as they don't have any characters preforming dark arts.
In this thread, you said you wouldn't read "DARK" Christian books because they don't line up with your worldview. You also said that you are open to other fictional series as long as they don't have the dark arts, then defend LotR and Chronicles because even though they have the dark arts, they have Christian authors. Wut?


Also, Harry Potter has a Christian author and a more directly Christian message than LotR, but you won't read those books. Your logic is about as consistent as the current REG.
First of all, to clarify, I did not say "DARK" Christian books as this would be an oxymoron.  A dark book cannot be a Christian book.  The scripture clearly states that we are not to dabble in the occult or traffic with mediums or we will pollute our souls (Lev 19:31, 20:6).  I have not read Harry Potter but I do know that the author is not a Christian.  The LOTR's author was a Christian.  In Tolkien's biography, by Humphrey Carpenter, Tolkien was quoted as defining a wizard as somebody who is extremely skilled in or knowledgeable about something, which coincides with the Encarta Dictionary's definition of wizard.  The only magic in LOTR was used by evil characters.  The theme of good v. evil is clearly depicted in the LOTR books (not so clear in the Hollywood movies).  In Harry Potter and Twilight magic is used by the "good" characters, therefore indicating occultic practices are acceptable.  Neither of these series (Harry Potter and Twilight) depict anything even near Christianity.  I fail to find any fallacies in my logic, having studied logic extensively.  Lastly, as long as the dark arts are clearly shown as dark arts, as in LOTR and Chronicles and Perreti's or Dekker's books, I am not opposed to reading.  But in Harry Potter and Twilight the good v. evil is subtley twisted.  Making it difficult for those not strong in their faith to discern the evil therein.  P.S. wut is spelled what.   
A. you (and I) haven't read Harry Potter, so it's hard to judge what's in it based off of biased opinions of others. and B. Pol meant to spell it wut. it's what he uses when he doesn't get something, usually preceded by an "lol," making hilarious objections.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 09, 2010, 02:33:35 AM
First,

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb214%2FchrisrooR%2FLOL-WUT-IT.gif&hash=62e0b22b21d3e7f11b5bf2c52d5690319ec8e230)

Ok. Now, on to the other stuff.

Quote
A dark book cannot be a Christian book.
Is The Shack a Christian book? Ok, bad example. Is The Screwtape Letters a Christian book?

Quote
but I do know that the author is not a Christian.
J.K. Rowling is a Presbyterian. Blam.

Quote
The only magic in LOTR was used by evil characters.
1. Gandalf starting a fire on the mountainside. 2. The river was horses. 3. Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond have and use magic rings. So, 0-3 so far.

Quote
The theme of good v. evil is clearly depicted in the LOTR books
As it is in Harry Potter. Voldemort means "he who runs from death," and the only reason you could be making this argument is addressed in my next point.

Quote
(not so clear in the Hollywood movies)
This quote is another all-too-painful reminder that you're talking about stuff you know nothing about. You haven't read the books, so it's understandable that you're woefully ignorant.

Quote
I fail to find any fallacies in my logic, having studied logic extensively.
Let me do it for you. You have a red herring when you start talking about Hollywood movies and Twilight in a discussion about Harry Potter. And then there's the part where, you know, none of your facts are right.

Quote
Lastly, as long as the dark arts are clearly shown as dark arts, as in LOTR and Chronicles and Perreti's or Dekker's books, I am not opposed to reading.
Ok, so you aren't opposed to reading Harry Potter? Finally you're talking sense. I'm glad you're going to read them now; once you get past the first couple--which are children's books--they're some fantastic pieces of literature, grounded in the classical tradition (and I was educated in the Trivium, Mr. Logic, so I know what that is), and send a clear message of the fallen nature of man and the need of a savior who conquers the power of evil by sacrificing himself.

As a side-note, I probably have a lot more problems with Twilight than you do. So at least we have that in common.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Master KChief on March 09, 2010, 04:22:24 AM
i still consider the first harry potter book the best of the series.

christian/secular literature aside, the harry potter series is still an amazing work of literature. the books get more and more progressive, so rowling pretty much stuck with one generation of readers until the end. pretty awesome stuff.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 09, 2010, 12:03:30 PM
He's not an allegory for Christ, but he certainly meets the requirements for Christ-figure. Harry has a many-faceted role during in the books and it changes as the books progress.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 09, 2010, 12:04:33 PM
Quote
wizard as somebody who is extremely skilled in or knowledgeable about something,
Wait wut? By that definition being knowledgeable about the bible makes you a wizard? I am confused on that.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: lightningninja on March 09, 2010, 06:03:58 PM
He's not an allegory for Christ, but he certainly meets the requirements for Christ-figure. Harry has a many-faceted role during in the books and it changes as the books progress.
Harry Potter is Jesus now? Wow.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 09, 2010, 06:08:17 PM
He's not an allegory for Christ, but he certainly meets the requirements for Christ-figure. Harry has a many-faceted role during in the books and it changes as the books progress.
Harry Potter is Jesus now? Wow.
Pol said just the opposite. he was saying it's like a Christ figure. just like Gandalf. I'm not saying that Gandalf is God, cuz he's not, cuz I pwned him in teh face. Saruman FTW.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: lightningninja on March 09, 2010, 06:10:26 PM
Wait... you said Pol said the OPPOSITE, then you said he thinks exactly what I said. Just so we're clear, Jesus is Christ right?  ;)
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 09, 2010, 06:24:06 PM
Oversimplification. Harry is no more Jesus than Voldemort is the Enemy. But they are figures that represent certain aspects of the other.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 09, 2010, 06:44:04 PM
Wait... you said Pol said the OPPOSITE, then you said he thinks exactly what I said. Just so we're clear, Jesus is Christ right?  ;)
He's not an allegory for Christ

I feel like I should drop out of this debate, considering I haven't read Harry Potter and cannot judge it accordingly.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 09, 2010, 07:03:34 PM
Pol, that's some win on the comment about the shack.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Kingsman08 on March 09, 2010, 09:27:55 PM
im not sure if harry potter could be considered a christ figure.... yea he was a good guy, yeah he saved the world. BUT...... he wasnt perfect, he still did bad things. and he didnt know or want all this pressure, i mean his parents died and he survived? who would want that???? although, i would definitely say that voldemort is a satan figure. Just my  :2cents:
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 10, 2010, 01:42:03 AM
I agree. That's why I was very clear about my position on Harry being that he's a Christ-figure, not a Christ-allegory. Among other things,
Spoiler (hover to show)
Just as Frodo is a Christ-figure but imperfect. He didn't plan to go through with destroying the ring at the end. But the whole point of extra-Biblical literature is that all Christ-figures should be less than Christ. The only true Christ figure is in his autobiography, and literature is simply a retelling in some way or another.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 10, 2010, 09:09:58 AM
I agree. That's why I was very clear about my position on Harry being that he's a Christ-figure, not a Christ-allegory. Among other things,
Spoiler (hover to show)
Just as Frodo is a Christ-figure but imperfect. He didn't plan to go through with destroying the ring at the end. But the whole point of extra-Biblical literature is that all Christ-figures should be less than Christ. The only true Christ figure is in his autobiography, and literature is simply a retelling in some way or another.
IMO, Gandalf is the one who has the Christ-figure in LotR
Title: Re: Books
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 10, 2010, 09:34:27 AM
+1 But even Gandalf wasn't perfect.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: franta012 on March 10, 2010, 05:24:47 PM
Quote
The only magic in LOTR was used by evil characters.


lol wut?
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Kingsman08 on March 10, 2010, 09:42:39 PM
i have been reading alot of a good christian artist. not techinicaly a christian series, but i believe his other series's  are. his name is Stephen R. Lawhead
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 10, 2010, 11:41:30 PM
i have been reading alot of a good christian artist. not techinicaly a christian series, but i believe his other series's  are. his name is Stephen R. Lawhead
Hood? yeah. read those. thought about getting the Pendragon Cycle too, but then Dekker came out with a book and I remembered why I never have any money for other books...
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 11, 2010, 02:35:50 AM
Quote
Stephen R. Lawhead
<3 this dood. Pendragon Cycle and the Song of Albion are my favorites by him.
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Kingsman08 on March 11, 2010, 08:35:37 PM
im about to read tuck as soon as i finish sinner by dekker. then, after that im readin the albion serios. then im prolly gonna order pendragon from half.com best way to buy books period.!!!
Title: Re: Books
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 12, 2010, 09:47:19 AM
im about to read tuck as soon as i finish sinner by dekker. then, after that im readin the albion serios. then im prolly gonna order pendragon from half.com best way to buy books period.!!!
Sinner was fail. with Showdown and Saint being so intense, Sinner was a  huge disappointment to me.
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