Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?...What?
Who is the chosen people?I don't think I fully understand what you are asking.
1. Is it wrong to make a statue? (commandment 2)Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?...What?Who is the chosen people?I don't think I fully understand what you are asking.
Is Israel the chosen people? Or the church?Yes.
Denomination?I am a member at a Presbyterian church.
Main Day of Worship?Sunday is the Lord's Day
Can Satan Repent?God does not offer the gift of grace to angels.
What is the Trinity?God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit
Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?If you break the covenant, you sin.
Is Jesus the same as God?See John chapter 1.
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament?YHWH refers to God. See John chapter 1.
What happens when you die?One of two things, you are put into a wooden box and buried in the ground or you are put into a big fire and your ashes are put into a metal container which is then put into a bigger container which is often times made of concrete or metal.
Denomination?Church of Christ (non-instrumental)
Main Day of Worship?Every day of the week but Sunday is probably what you are looking for...
Can Satan Repent?Sure he could, but scripture says he won't
What is the Trinity?The three fold manifestation of God
Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?Sure because all things are permissible but not all things are beneficial...
Is Jesus the same as God?Father, Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit make up who God is, so yes
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament?In as much as Jesus is God, and YHWH is how God revealed himself, yes
What happens when you die?Your body goes into the ground and your soul awaits its "spiritual body" or "pneumatica soma" as Paul refers to it to live in heaven forever.
Who is the chosen people?God's chosen people are the sons of Abraham (a.k.a. Israel) into which gentiles have been granted entrance into through Jesus
WARNING: This is not a debate! Just a poll about what you believe.First Bapticostal freestyle church of "insert your name here" ministries natural unity and Amway Worship Centre
Denomination?
Main Day of Worship?I worship God two times; Day and Night
Can Satan Repent?He won't. He may, he can (I think), but he won't
What is the Trinity?A wonderful, eternal mystery. Also, a cute little girl in my church
Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?Yes. I eat an entire white chocolate statue of Rob Anderson every year. But, my faith is in vain. No Natz in Elkhart, again... just the President and Huckabee... :[
Is Jesus the same as God?The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all God. Add the two remaining archangels and you have a competitive bowling team!
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament?Yes, and No. It's complex
What happens when you die?You suddenly realize that metalpsalm was right and that you should have listened to him.... Oh, that's only if you are Colin...
Who are the chosen people?The Jews, but then also the non-jews that are grafted into the covenant of Abraham by faith in Christ
As long as you don't worship it (and it doesn't cause you to sin in any other way), then go ahead.Is it wrong to make a statue? (commandment 2)Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?...What?
I agree with everyone else that both the Jews and those that have repented are considered God's people.Is Israel the chosen people? Or the church?Who is the chosen people?I don't think I fully understand what you are asking.
Exactly where is it written that Satan won't repent?? Not saying that he will, but I've never read that.I think we have to take that a read since from Genesis to Revelation he's the bad guy, and we're told he ends up captured and thrown into the lake of fire forever. Also, there's somethings mentioned in the book of Hebrews "it's not angels He helps, but Abraham's descendants" where is that?
Denomination?Christian :D
Main Day of Worship?Sunday
Can Satan Repent?I'd say no... I don't think it's in his nature.
What is the Trinity?God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?Not if you worship it...
Is Jesus the same as God?Please rephrase your question. The trinity is one BEING in three distinct PERSONS. So he's the same being... but a different person within that being.
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament?I would say so.
What happens when you die?Your body goes into the ground or is burned. Oh... you mean AFTER you die... ;) You are judged and God decides if you are going to heaven or hell.
Who is the chosen people?Who ARE the choses people? Isrealites.
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament? whats a "Yahweh"?"Yahweh" is the holy name for the father.
Denomination?I'm not really in a particular denomination; although I go to a Presbyterian Church I'm not exactly on-board with everything in the Westminister Catechism. Leaning towards Roman Catholicism, but I haven't studied into the Catechism enough to be ready for that kind of decision.
Main Day of Worship?Every Sunday or so. I'm also into Zen/Hebraic meditation.
Can Satan Repent?Don't really care; if Satan exists, his existence has no meaningful effect on my life. Probably not.
I thought of this post hoc and meant to go back and write it.
Can Satan Repent: Repentance is only effective as a model of Christ's submission to God. Because God never assumed angelic "flesh" there is nothing for the repenter to turn to in the act of turning that repentance signifies.
What is the Trinity?The triune relationship of the individual to the collective consciousness and the sublimation of Geist.
Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?With the proper tools and some time, probably.
Is Jesus the same as God?No, though they share similarities.
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament?I'd also have to say no.
What happens when you die?One's life is complete and one becomes part of the eternal collective-consciousness. There isn't any "consciousness" or "existence"; one simply "is". As for salvation, It's probably universal. As for resurrection/reincarnation, I suppose I'll find out, yeah?
Who is the chosen people?The Russians, though my love for German and French girls almost had me reconsider. (More seriously, those who choose to live authentically).
I can't tell you how scared this makes me for you, but I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible.QuoteWhat happens when you die?One's life is complete and one becomes part of the eternal collective-consciousness. There isn't any "consciousness" or "existence"; one simply "is". As for salvation, It's probably universal. As for resurrection/reincarnation, I suppose I'll find out, yeah?
I'm pretty stoked, actually (and to ease everyone else's fears, that's just Christianity in 19th Century continental terms). What makes me scared is that you don't know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible. Also, the use of the word "scared" makes me wonder if you'd know what to say if there was no hell.I can't tell you how scared this makes me for you, but I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible.QuoteWhat happens when you die?One's life is complete and one becomes part of the eternal collective-consciousness. There isn't any "consciousness" or "existence"; one simply "is". As for salvation, It's probably universal. As for resurrection/reincarnation, I suppose I'll find out, yeah?
I know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible and knows he isn't a Christian, but you are a case I have never read about or been informed of.What makes me scared is that you don't know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible.I can't tell you how scared this makes me for you, but I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible.QuoteWhat happens when you die?One's life is complete and one becomes part of the eternal collective-consciousness. There isn't any "consciousness" or "existence"; one simply "is". As for salvation, It's probably universal. As for resurrection/reincarnation, I suppose I'll find out, yeah?
Well, let me tell you how I'd argue against me if I were in your position.I know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible and knows he isn't a Christian, but you are a case I have never read about or been informed of.What makes me scared is that you don't know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible.I can't tell you how scared this makes me for you, but I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible.QuoteWhat happens when you die?One's life is complete and one becomes part of the eternal collective-consciousness. There isn't any "consciousness" or "existence"; one simply "is". As for salvation, It's probably universal. As for resurrection/reincarnation, I suppose I'll find out, yeah?
Denomination? Bible-Believer
Main Day of Worship? The Sabbath ("Friday" evening to "Saturday" evening)
Can Satan Repent? I suppose it might be possible, but the accuser has a different role to play.
What is the Trinity? A concept made by man to try and explain an endless god.
Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)? A statue? Yes. An idol? No.
Is Jesus the same as God? Yes. He is either one and the same, or a liar and a charlatan.
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament? Yes. He's one and the same as Yahweh, or a liar. I'm going with the former.
What happens when you die? You go to "sleep" until the time of judgment, when all who believe and follow Yahweh's commands will rise to meet him.
Who is the chosen people? Israel. Those who believe and follow Yahweh's commands are considered as natural born Israelites and are heirs accordingly.
"Son, you'd better start believing the bible or you'll end up like this guy."
Denomination?Bible-believing Monotheist
Main Day of Worship?
Can Satan Repent?
What is the Trinity?
Can you carve an image of someone (ie a statue)?
Is Jesus the same as God?
Is Jesus the "Yahweh" of the Old Testament?
What happens when you die?
Who is the chosen people?
I don't know what happens when I die
Right, we know that. But we don't have actual proof. ;)QuoteI don't know what happens when I die
I have an answer for you. In Romans 10:9-13, it is explained that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe with your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. Saved from what, you ask? Saved from hell. All you have to do is ask him, and you will be saved and go to heaven when you die.
I hope I didn't give off the wrong impression that I'm attempting to appear "superior" to anyone in any way. Just wanted you guys to know that.
Love you guys,
Not of this World :thumbup:
You can't quote the source to prove the source.+ 1
Just a quick thought, the bible is a collection of works. Why can't the bible confirm itself to be true? Is it wrong for any other collection of works to support evidence because they happen to be bound in the same physical book? They are called "books" of the bible after all, not chapters.
We're simply saying that the bible is unprovable. It can only be accepted by faith.Just because you can't prove the Bible is true 100% does not mean that it has to be accepted wholly on faith. I can pretty much prove that it is more logical to believe the Bible is true, than it is to believe that the Bible is false. That's not 100%, but it means that it is the most rational choice available.
ignorence makes life easier
It's more logical to believe that the Bible is 100% than false?We're simply saying that the bible is unprovable. It can only be accepted by faith.Just because you can't prove the Bible is true 100% does not mean that it has to be accepted wholly on faith. I can pretty much prove that it is more logical to believe the Bible is true, than it is to believe that the Bible is false. That's not 100%, but it means that it is the most rational choice available.
Logic isn't what you should rely on for your doctrine.Logic is the law of non-contradiction. An illogical doctrine is one which contradicts itself, making it false.
The Bible was written by God through men, and God doesn't lie.That's what you believe, however, wouldn't the writers have said something about that?
(1) They have found Noah's Ark,Unless this was recent, no they haven't. Secondly, this doesn't prove anything, just that the story passed down and put into the book of Genesis during the Babylonian exile was based off fact. Don't forget that the Babylonians also have a flood myth (as well as practically every other culture).
(2) They have found the ruins of Jericho,Yeah, and they've also found Jerusalem and the ruins of the temple that was destroyed. And Babylon, that was a real place too. Don't forget Rome. That doesn't prove anything.
(3) people have been healed, raised from the dead,You may believe that, but that's not an objective fact.
and people have seen visions by use of the Word.And the use of LSD as well. Is LSD "God inspired"?
If that is not proof that the Bible is real, I don't know what is.Perhaps because it isn't what you claim?
And anyway, we are to accept the Bible by faith and know that it is true.Why?
If part of the Word is not accurate, how do you know that any of it is accurate?By studying and researching it.
Therefore it is all or nothing.Why?
If you believe part of the Word, you are standing on shaky ground.Why?
If you believe all of it, however, you are standing on the Solid Rock of Christ.So the Bible is equated with Christ now? That be heresy.
That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
I'm not doubting God, I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
Who has disagreed with you on that?I'm not doubting God, I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
I'm pretty sure that you just did.Who has disagreed with you on that?I'm not doubting God, I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
Try Revelation 1:3I'm pretty sure that you just did.Who has disagreed with you on that?I'm not doubting God, I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
All that I'm saying is that Jesus didn't say the Bible was the word of God, and the disciples and Paul didn't say their writings were the word of God. Also, the Bible never says it's without error. Add to this the fact that it was compiled more that three hundred years after the last of the books where written. Add to this that it wasn't until the reformation that the 72 books were reduced to 66. Also, remember that the Bible was written by the fathers of a Church that was believed to be inerrant and divinely inspired in everything it ever did or said (which makes it not surprising that this view of the Bible evolved over time).
Those were written pre-Bible, first of all. Second of all, the verse in Revelation doesn't imply divine authorship. The verse in Psalms is made elucidatory when you take into account the Hebrew mindset of one's "spoken word".Try Revelation 1:3I'm pretty sure that you just did.Who has disagreed with you on that?I'm not doubting God, I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
All that I'm saying is that Jesus didn't say the Bible was the word of God, and the disciples and Paul didn't say their writings were the word of God. Also, the Bible never says it's without error. Add to this the fact that it was compiled more that three hundred years after the last of the books where written. Add to this that it wasn't until the reformation that the 72 books were reduced to 66. Also, remember that the Bible was written by the fathers of a Church that was believed to be inerrant and divinely inspired in everything it ever did or said (which makes it not surprising that this view of the Bible evolved over time).
Psalm 33:4?
33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made,Clearly not speaking of "the Bible" as the word.
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
33:9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
Oh so you're implying that God is a mortal? Or that he can't tell the future? Or that two guys in a cubicle found a bunch of ancient writings and called it the holy book?Those were written pre-Bible, first of all. Second of all, the verse in Revelation doesn't imply divine authorship. The verse in Psalms is made elucidatory when you take into account the Hebrew mindset of one's "spoken word".Try Revelation 1:3I'm pretty sure that you just did.Who has disagreed with you on that?I'm not doubting God, I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
All that I'm saying is that Jesus didn't say the Bible was the word of God, and the disciples and Paul didn't say their writings were the word of God. Also, the Bible never says it's without error. Add to this the fact that it was compiled more that three hundred years after the last of the books where written. Add to this that it wasn't until the reformation that the 72 books were reduced to 66. Also, remember that the Bible was written by the fathers of a Church that was believed to be inerrant and divinely inspired in everything it ever did or said (which makes it not surprising that this view of the Bible evolved over time).
Psalm 33:4?Quote33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made,Clearly not speaking of "the Bible" as the word.
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
33:9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
I don't see how any of that makes sense from the premises. Clearly the Bible was written by the fathers of the Church.Oh so you're implying that God is a mortal? Or that he can't tell the future? Or that two guys in a cubicle found a bunch of ancient writings and called it the holy book?Those were written pre-Bible, first of all. Second of all, the verse in Revelation doesn't imply divine authorship. The verse in Psalms is made elucidatory when you take into account the Hebrew mindset of one's "spoken word".Try Revelation 1:3I'm pretty sure that you just did.Who has disagreed with you on that?I'm not doubting God, I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.I agree that the bible has some minor flaws that are the result of poor translations, etc. But you arent doubting the flaws of the bible, you are doubting its authority over us. And why not doubt God why you're at it? There's nothing productive that comes out of it. Nothing.Maybe you should re-read the creeds. I'm still in line with Orthodox Christianity by not believing the Bible to be written by God, in fact, many prominent theologians and ministers are also in agreement with me.Because this is a christian forum. Not a doubter's forum. Believe what you will, but stop taking people down with you. I'm not going to go flame some athiests on an athiest's forum about not believing in YHWH. I wouldn't get anywhere. You obviously aren't either.That isn't heresy, Colin. It's faith. Stop critisizing Christians for having faith on this message board. Go spread your doctrine on the athiest's mb. Not here. Its not welcome here.For a Christian who seems so concerned with "truth" (and so convinced that you've found it), why should there be any problem in criticising something that is true?
All that I'm saying is that Jesus didn't say the Bible was the word of God, and the disciples and Paul didn't say their writings were the word of God. Also, the Bible never says it's without error. Add to this the fact that it was compiled more that three hundred years after the last of the books where written. Add to this that it wasn't until the reformation that the 72 books were reduced to 66. Also, remember that the Bible was written by the fathers of a Church that was believed to be inerrant and divinely inspired in everything it ever did or said (which makes it not surprising that this view of the Bible evolved over time).
Psalm 33:4?Quote33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made,Clearly not speaking of "the Bible" as the word.
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
33:9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
I don't see how any of that makes sense from the premises. Clearly the Bible was written by the fathers of the Church.
In the first statement I say that the Bible was written by the Church fathers.Quote from: Colin MichaelI don't see how any of that makes sense from the premises. Clearly the Bible was written by the fathers of the Church.I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.
I sense a condradiction, Colin Michael.
So now David and Moses are the church fathers?In the first statement I say that the Bible was written by the church fathers.Quote from: Colin MichaelI don't see how any of that makes sense from the premises. Clearly the Bible was written by the fathers of the Church.I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.
I sense a condradiction, Colin Michael.
In the second statement I say that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it (i.e. the Church fathers).
There's no contradiction.
I'm strictly speaking of the New Testament now (however David and Moses did not write any part of the Bible, although various songs included are attributed to the king, David, as was the custom. Others were probably written by him and passed down).So now David and Moses are the church fathers?In the first statement I say that the Bible was written by the church fathers.Quote from: Colin MichaelI don't see how any of that makes sense from the premises. Clearly the Bible was written by the fathers of the Church.I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.
I sense a condradiction, Colin Michael.
In the second statement I say that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it (i.e. the Church fathers).
There's no contradiction.
The Torah was written by Moses. And Psalms were sung by King David.I'm strictly speaking of the New Testament now (however David and Moses did not write any part of the Bible, although various songs included are attributed to the king, David, as was the custom. Others were probably written by him and passed down).So now David and Moses are the church fathers?In the first statement I say that the Bible was written by the church fathers.Quote from: Colin MichaelI don't see how any of that makes sense from the premises. Clearly the Bible was written by the fathers of the Church.I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.
I sense a condradiction, Colin Michael.
In the second statement I say that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it (i.e. the Church fathers).
There's no contradiction.
You're right that the Torah, excluding Genesis and possibly Exodus, were traditionally believed to be authored by Moses.The Torah was written by Moses. And Psalms were sung by King David.I'm strictly speaking of the New Testament now (however David and Moses did not write any part of the Bible, although various songs included are attributed to the king, David, as was the custom. Others were probably written by him and passed down).So now David and Moses are the church fathers?In the first statement I say that the Bible was written by the church fathers.Quote from: Colin MichaelI don't see how any of that makes sense from the premises. Clearly the Bible was written by the fathers of the Church.I'm doubting that the Bible was written by God and rather am saying that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it.
I sense a condradiction, Colin Michael.
In the second statement I say that the Bible was written by the people it says wrote it (i.e. the Church fathers).
There's no contradiction.
You're going out on a limb. I'm not going to follow.
It's more logical to believe that the Bible is 100% than false?These are old arguments about "apparent" contradictions/shortcomings in the Bible. They have long been explained. Do some research.
What about the different genealogies of Christ, was Joseph born twice?
Did Jesus get anointed with expensive perfume three different times by different women, all with similar circumstances?
When Paul writes to the churches, why doesn't he say something like "thus sayeth the Lord?"
Heck, if you examine the history some of the churches Paul went to completely disliked him and asked him to leave.
Why does James openly refute Paul's "saved by grace doctrine?"
Why isn't there ever a mention of the Bible in the Bible (and the verse in Timothy is about the Hebrew law, written before the separation of Judaism and Christianity.)
Also, how do we know Peter's opinion on prophesy is correct? Did Peter mean just the prophesy in the current Old Testament or was he speaking more broadly?
What about the book of Revelation, of which the early church doubted its authenticity?
The most logical explanation is that the Bible was written by humans, and thus it isn't perfectly accurate.
Long been poorly explained.It's more logical to believe that the Bible is 100% than false?These are old arguments about "apparent" contradictions/shortcomings in the Bible. They have long been explained. Do some research.
What about the different genealogies of Christ, was Joseph born twice?
Did Jesus get anointed with expensive perfume three different times by different women, all with similar circumstances?
When Paul writes to the churches, why doesn't he say something like "thus sayeth the Lord?"
Heck, if you examine the history some of the churches Paul went to completely disliked him and asked him to leave.
Why does James openly refute Paul's "saved by grace doctrine?"
Why isn't there ever a mention of the Bible in the Bible (and the verse in Timothy is about the Hebrew law, written before the separation of Judaism and Christianity.)
Also, how do we know Peter's opinion on prophesy is correct? Did Peter mean just the prophesy in the current Old Testament or was he speaking more broadly?
What about the book of Revelation, of which the early church doubted its authenticity?
The most logical explanation is that the Bible was written by humans, and thus it isn't perfectly accurate.
These are old arguments about "apparent" contradictions/shortcomings in the Bible. They have long been explained. Do some research.+1
Long been poorly explained.
You're going out on a limb. I'm not going to follow.+1
I tend to reside somewhere in the middle with most arguments.Pick a side of the road, Matt. Driving down the middle is illegal :)
It [the Bible] tells us who God is and what he is about, but it was not meant to be a medical journal or a history text book.But if the Bible is wrong about so many other things, then how do you know it's right about God?
This is why nearly every King of Judah seems ot be just one step shy of Divine and every king of Israel seems to wallow in Evil.I don't think you've read the books of Kings and Chronicles lately. The majority of kings in both kingdoms were ungodly and are reflected poorly in the Bible. If memory serves me there were perhaps 2 good kings in Israel, and maybe 4 good kings in Judah. Then there are also the kings who started off "good" and went bad, and 1 example of a king who started off badly and ended well. And even the consistently "good" kings often have flaws mentioned. For example it will say that they followed the Lord, but failed to take down the pagan high places, or something like that.
There is at least a 10 year gap between Matthew and Luke regarding the Birth of Jesus. One of them HAS to give with regards to Historicity because these two accounts CANNOT be reconciled (although I am sure someone will try)It is possible that Quirinius was in charge of an earlier census in Syria during the time of Herod's reign as described here. (http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/con100.asp)
I tend to reside somewhere in the middle with most arguments.Pick a side of the road, Matt. Driving down the middle is illegal :)
I actually think Matt's stance is the most logical stance for a believer to have (I was trained in the tradition he comes from); I just tend to deconstruct things to extremes because, to me, they are more interesting that way.I tend to reside somewhere in the middle with most arguments.Pick a side of the road, Matt. Driving down the middle is illegal :)
Plus: "You get squashed like a grape"
2 cookies for who can get that quote!
There is at least a 10 year gap between Matthew and Luke regarding the Birth of Jesus. One of them HAS to give with regards to Historicity because these two accounts CANNOT be reconciled (although I am sure someone will try)It is possible that Quirinius was in charge of an earlier census in Syria during the time of Herod's reign as described here. (http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/con100.asp)
You need to decide whether truth or level of interest is of primary import to you; you seem to waver on this based on whether you're talking about your own beliefs or dismissing someone else's.I don't really bother with truth or beliefs for myself. Sure, there are some practices within traditions that I think work and some that I have objections to. Analysing information and deconstructing/reconstructing various beliefs and traditions is more interesting to me than taking a paradigm for myself and expanding it to fit the world around me.
Well, naturally, it's always easier to look for just the right nit to tear down someone else viewpoint over trivialities, than to take the effort to form a belief of your own and subject it to anything approaching the same level of critique. All the satisfaction of being "right", none of the risk of being wrong. A real win-win.Deconstructionalism is for purposes of elucidation, not for the satisfaction of being right. If you mean "belief" as in "worldview", post-modern or existentialist would be a possible description.
Deconstructionalism is for purposes of elucidation, not for the satisfaction of being right.
Tearing things down or taking them apart to see how/if they work?Deconstructionalism is for purposes of elucidation, not for the satisfaction of being right.
I might believe that if I thought you believed you were giving any clarification to anyone. Your deconstructions are doing exactly and only that: tearing things down.
This topic has gone so far off course, I think it would do us all some good to get back to what thestrongangel asked us. And I don't think he asked us to argue ;)Of course not. :)
By the way Colin, sorry for being a little rude back there. No hard feelings, right? :-[
Tearing things down or taking them apart to see how/if they work?
I mean, yes, any one with a small bit of intelligence could argue their way around certain arguments, but to do that, one would have to make a lot of hypotheticals.Tearing things down or taking them apart to see how/if they work?
I also have yet to see you make any observations about if/how something works. I have only ever seen you proclaim something (effectively) not worth the attention of an intelligent person. Never mind that it is intelligent people who drew those conclusions to begin with.
Even that - which is little more than a left-handed compliment - is more credit than I've ever seen you give a point with which you disagreed.Well, it is a forum, you know.
My dictionary defines a forum as an assembly for discussing issues of interest, not for dismissing arguments without even bothering with the discussion. I'm not sure what you thought "this is a forum" was supposed even to add to the discussion of this problem.You know that people act far different on a forum that in real life.
I tend to reside somewhere in the middle with most arguments.Pick a side of the road, Matt. Driving down the middle is illegal :)
Plus: "You get squashed like a grape"
2 cookies for who can get that movie quote!
I tend to reside somewhere in the middle with most arguments.Pick a side of the road, Matt. Driving down the middle is illegal :)
Plus: "You get squashed like a grape"
2 cookies for who can get that movie quote!
The Karate Kid, MR. Miyagi talking to Daniel-san. Can my cookies be Chocolate Chip they are my favorite?
I tend to reside somewhere in the middle with most arguments.Pick a side of the road, Matt. Driving down the middle is illegal :)
Plus: "You get squashed like a grape"
2 cookies for who can get that movie quote!
The Karate Kid, MR. Miyagi talking to Daniel-san. Can my cookies be Chocolate Chip they are my favorite?
t2h Schaef is a grumpy old man and nobody should listen to anything he says.
To Schaef:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb105%2Fpdkglyph%2FBUYTHIS.jpg&hash=a391da33b2a13c1fd6e2cf9728a331857b9f8628)