Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: stefferweffer on February 04, 2010, 11:30:56 AM
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I was curious about this. It seems every brigade now has a 1/1 hero or 1/1 evil character, which are of course great for getting initiative. Silver is missing one, but I understand it being angels, and you can get a 1/1 with Angel with the Secret Name if they are the only Angel out anyway.
But Gold heroes do not have a 1/1? Why not? Seems to put gold at a disadvantage in this particular category.
Thanks for helping me understand this.
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Every brigade doesn't need a 1/1 character, especially not Gold.
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Well apparently the designers thought that every brigade EXCEPT gold needed one. If you don't mind me asking, what are your reasons for saying "especially gold"? I would think gold would want to get initiative just like anyone else.
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Gold has a 2/2 and a 1/10 already... both extremely good at getting initiative.
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Gold has a 2/2 and a 1/10 already... both extremely good at getting initiative.
They have crap loads of low people to get inititive. They were basically made for that lol
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If they do make a 1/1 gold hero, it'd better not be a judge. :P
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If they do make a 1/1 gold hero, it'd better not be a judge. :P
+1
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Gold does have a 1/1 Hero, silly! See?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKindness%2520%28UL%29.gif&hash=7bcdb1e24774f13c018dfa2c96638a5bb36b894f)
;)
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Haha that's funny prof. Anyway I think gold never got one because of it's recurring combo. That is the only reason I can think of yet all of the combos cards are like 4/3 and stuff. So maybe they just didn't do it, just because...?
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Gold has a 2/2 and a 1/10 already... both extremely good at getting initiative.
They have crap loads of low people to get inititive. They were basically made for that lol
And almost every other brigade has a 1/1 and a 2/* or */2 hero. Honestly, I'd like to see a 1/1 luke hero that hurts demons.
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Gold does have a 1/1 Hero, silly! See?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKindness%2520%28UL%29.gif&hash=7bcdb1e24774f13c018dfa2c96638a5bb36b894f)
;)
Actually that is very clever, the Kidness error card. But seriously, I wonder if somehow this is the reason? Maybe a computer program looked for a 1/1 heroes, found this misprint, and treated it as "gold already has a 1/1"?
Part of the reason I ask is because if gold goes up against a low number self-capture defense, which I happen to be pretty good at, it has a harder time than most brigades. Gold also needs a 1/1 hero to play Vengeance of Eternal Fire in my site lockout deck :)
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Actually that is very clever, the Kidness error card. But seriously, I wonder if somehow this is the reason? Maybe a computer program looked for a 1/1 heroes, found this misprint, and treated it as "gold already has a 1/1"?
Aha! Bryon is a computer program! That explains so many things!
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Gold does have a 1/1 Hero, silly! See?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKindness%2520%28UL%29.gif&hash=7bcdb1e24774f13c018dfa2c96638a5bb36b894f)
;)
No, I don't.
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The Thankful Leper gets initiative against everyone except the 1/1 Kings and sometimes has CBN. Generous Widow is pretty much the same, and she has one of the strongest abilities in the game to boot. Gold also has many other low-numbered Heroes. I think it's the strongest Good Brigade (TGT isn't a Brigade), and it gets that spot without having a 1/1.
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If they do make a 1/1 gold hero, it'd better not be a judge. :P
That's quite easy to accomplish in my Natz deck that used Judges :).
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I was curious about this. It seems every brigade now has a 1/1 hero or 1/1 evil character, which are of course great for getting initiative. Silver is missing one, but I understand it being angels, and you can get a 1/1 with Angel with the Secret Name if they are the only Angel out anyway.
But Gold heroes do not have a 1/1? Why not? Seems to put gold at a disadvantage in this particular category.
Thanks for helping me understand this.
Why does every brigade need the same thing?
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Because Archers Horses.
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Because Archers Horses.
One of the worst things to ever happen to Redemption.
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Because Archers Horses.
One of the worst things to ever happen to Redemption.
+1 I do not have any archerers in any of my decks and I only have the horses in one of my decks.
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"The Same Thing" has existed since the first set of Redemption:
6/6 evil characters
10/10 evil characters
Snare, Stocks, Net
Sleep, Prayer and Fasting, Meditation
How many different brigades got 1/1 ignores/repels?
It is helpful for new players to have some familiarity with certain types of cards that are common across a handful of cultures. Archers and Horses are some of those card types. They are instantly familiar.
Warriors from warrior cultures often use the same tools: chariots and horses
"Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we will remember the name of the Lord our God. They are brought down and fallen, but we are risen and stand upright." Psalm 20:7-8
Magicians and Sadducees and Herods and Heretics and Greeks and Pharisees and Sadducees etc. are not mentioned in the Bible as using Horses (though obviously Greeks did historically). So, obviously, these groups will not be getting horses.
Was it "the worst thing to happen to Redemption" to give Red "Potter and the Clay" and blue "Iron Pan" in Prophets, since it just made red and blue more like white, gold, and purple? Or was it so horrible to give multiple good brigades an enhancement that converts a human evil character? Red, gold, green, blue, purple, white, and silver have those.
There will be some overlap in brigades - ESPECIALLY among themes that share a common trait (warriors who used horses, for example). There will also be traits that are much more common in certain brigades (converts in good gold, shuffling in green, hand discard in blue and gray, drawing and discard and site access in purple, ignore and demon discard in white, capture and discard in red, negating special abilities in silver, etc.), and other traits that are common in a certain subgroup within that brigade.
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6/6 evil characters
10/10 evil characters
Snare, Stocks, Net
Sleep, Prayer and Fasting, Meditation
How many different brigades got 1/1 ignores/repels?
All of these were printed nearly 15 years ago. The game has advanced because of new cards that do different things, not because of new cards that do the same thing as old cards.
It is helpful for new players to have some familiarity with certain types of cards that are common across a handful of cultures.
New players don't need a bunch of different color cards that do the same thing, they need cards that are worded well so they can understand how to use them.
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In my opinion, they need both. We can't have 1500 different special ability types listed in the REG. There MUST BE overlap across brigades. Since the 1995 and all the way until today, there is and always will be overlap of abilities across brigades. When a player is new to the game, ALL the cards are new. If that player sees a "Horses" weapon, they will know what it does. If they see an archer, they will know what it does. In many, many games, cultures or themes or colors have their strengths and limitations, but they also have their similarities.
In Lord of the Rings, for example, there were Archers in several cultures: Isengard, Moria, Raiders, Elf, Gondor... basically every culture that used a bow in the movie. There were fierce minions in Moria, Isengard, Ringwraith, Sauron... I think EVERY shadow culture had fierce minions. Damage + 1 was a feature of Isengard Uruk-Hai, but it was also seen on Moria minions, Sauron minions, Dwarves, etc. A majority of weapons had the same function regardless of culture: Damage + 1.
Horses are basic function cards that are almost like "staple funtions" of a warrior culture. They give a way for a 10/10 evil character to have a chance to play an evil enhancement (evil enhancements were WAY underused in top decks without either a 1/1 or a horse).
There are enough other unique things that differentiate the brigades that we don't need to start calling archers and horses "the worst thing to happen to Redemption," as if similar functions across brigades were anything remotely new to the game.
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In that case I'd like to see non WC themes be more viable.
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In that case I'd like to see non WC themes be more viable.
Good, 'cause, um... yeah. ;)
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Because Archers Horses.
One of the worst things to ever happen to Redemption.
+1 I do not have any archerers in any of my decks and I only have the horses in one of my decks.
I disagree. I am thankful for the chance to kill off that nasty character that I didn't foresee when I built my deck and the chance to use an enhancement before my opponent can use their interrupt, d3 play next. Just because evil uses the horses theme for this ability doesn't mean they are the only ones using it. I also find that I rarely see games where my opponent doesn't use the cards that most people say they hate and that these cards ruin Redemption. In my opinion, Redemption is the best game out there because of BALANCE between brigades. If Pale green was the only evil brigade that had horses, noone would not use Pale green, even if it was just to splash in the combos. I think the balance comes when every brigade is equally playable. The only (slightly) unbalanced brigade is Red. I think that Red can be useful again but it does need a good boost. I used to run only red or green back before Priests came out and I honestly don't think there has been enough come out to help them much in recent years.
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If Pale green was the only evil brigade that had horses, noone would not use Pale green, even if it was just to splash in the combos.
There was a long period of time--from Kings up until FoOF--when Pale Green was the only brigade with horses. Although some people played PG, most did not. (Brown was, for example, the defense used by T2 champions.) It wasn't until the advent of a non-negatable instant defensive PG battle winner (Forgotten History, I'm looking at you) that the horses became a prominent feature in T2, and this switch took place relatively quickly.
Personally, I am not crazy about the fact that each of the WC cultures were given their own version horses. IMO it takes away from the uniqueness of the brigades. I realize that once Forgotten History was released, however, the genii was out of the bottle, and there was very little recourse to try and rebalance the relative strengths of the brigades. And, hey, if everyone has a horse-class enhancement, you may as well toss in an archer also.
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Well in defense of the archers, Most (cept assyrian) were made in Kings, before they became such a prominent power. We still lack a brown evil archer as well ;)
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"The Same Thing" has existed since the first set of Redemption:...It is helpful for new players to have some familiarity with certain types of cards that are common across a handful of cultures...There will be some overlap in brigades - ESPECIALLY among themes that share a common trait...
This whole response from Bryon is awesome. Agree or disagree with his conclusions, but that is a GREAT explanation of his perspective, and gives GREAT insight into the thinking that goes behind decisions regarding cards to make. Thanks for sharing this Bryon.
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Well in defense of the archers, Most (cept assyrian) were made in Kings, before they became such a prominent power.
Agreed. My comment was aimed at Assyrian Archer. If no one else had gotten horses, Assyrians probably wouldn't have gotten an archer.
We still lack a brown evil archer as well ;)
That's because we lack a whole brown WC-based civilization.
Given the current administrative bent of Persians maybe we could give brown an evil bureaucrat.
Persian Bureaucrat 3/5 You may negate the special ability of a Hero in territory for the remainder of the game. If you do, discard this Evil Character after battle. May band to a Persian.
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That persian idea is great, but I might choose "Set aside" the hero rather than negate its ability, since set-aside is the primary function of Persians. :)
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Well in defense of the archers, Most (cept assyrian) were made in Kings, before they became such a prominent power.
Agreed. My comment was aimed at Assyrian Archer. If no one else had gotten horses, Assyrians probably wouldn't have gotten an archer.
We still lack a brown evil archer as well ;)
That's because we lack a whole brown WC-based civilization.
Given the current administrative bent of Persians maybe we could give brown an evil bureaucrat.
Persian Bureaucrat 3/5 You may negate the special ability of a Hero in territory for the remainder of the game. If you do, discard this Evil Character after battle. May band to a Persian.
I'm hoping that evil Israelites/Canaanites will become warrior class brown, and we have a lot of this already. We just need more. Specifically, the non-Philistine, non-Syrian cultures that Moses and Joshua defeated, but some during the time of the Kings also (i.e. Jebusites). And hopefully they will get a protect fortress of some kind like other cultures have.
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Persian Archer
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 3 / 5 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: May band to any Persian Evil Character. May discard any Hero in a territory but then discard Persian Archer at end of battle. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Human, Persia, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: Jeremiah 50:9
Persian Chariots and Horses
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and draw two cards. If used by a Persian, may play an Enhancement. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Isaiah 21:7
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Stamp, you are about to make Sean very upset! :)
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Great research! Well done!
I might add "May discard a hero or Babylonian in a territory..." to add a little extra unique feature to the archer, but still, it fits.
But due to the complaints on this thread it is highly unlikely that we will see archers or horses for a while. :( Also, Persians don't have many Warrior class evil characters yet, so horses would be kinda pointless.
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Stamp, you are about to make Sean very upset! :)
It's to distract enough that he can't focus on the fantasy baseball draft. ;)
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Great research! Well done!
Also, Persians don't have many Warrior class evil characters yet, so horses would be kinda pointless.
But they will once Darius, Xerxes, and Cyrus are made, right? :)
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Great research! Well done!
Also, Persians don't have many Warrior class evil characters yet, so horses would be kinda pointless.
But they will once Darius, Xerxes, and Cyrus are made, right? :)
Someday. But not this year.
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Stamp, you are about to make Sean very upset! :)
Persian Archer
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 3 / 5 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: May band to a warrior class Persian. May set aside any Hero in a territory for one turn. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Human, Persia, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: Jeremiah 50:9
Persian Chariots and Horses
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: If opponent controls a Hero with decreased toughness you may interrupt the battle and play a single color brown Enhancement. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Isaiah 21:7
Fixed to satisfy my hopes for such cards.
It's to distract enough that he can't focus on the fantasy baseball draft.
Don't worry, I'll just make the proper adjustments to your team when the time is right. :maul:
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Persian Archer
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 3 / 5 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: May band to a warrior class Persian. May set aside any Hero in a territory for one turn. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Human, Persia, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: Jeremiah 50:9
Persian Chariots and Horses
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: If opponent controls a Hero with decreased toughness you may interrupt the battle and play a single color brown Enhancement. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Isaiah 21:7
That would be awesome if they made those cards :)
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I like Seans ideas a lot, and I think doing variants of familiar cards is a much better route than cut and paste duplicates in new brigades.
One small change to archer... maybe make him say X turns, where X = the number of good brigades opponent has in play? Isn't that another small theme in brown?
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X = the number of good brigades opponent has in play? Isn't that another small theme in brown?
That seems like more of an RoA thing, not specific to brown.
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Hmm, true, but it'd definately add some punch to the archer. Besides, wouldn't a one turn set aside return on their next upkeep phase, making it pretty much useless?
If thats the case, X + 1, so its a minimum of two turns.
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Persian Archer
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 3 / 5 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: May band to a warrior class Persian. May set aside any Hero in a territory for one turn. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Human, Persia, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: Jeremiah 50:9
So basically, the Persians are all either blind and only wound the character, sending them to the hospital or the are fearsome and the Hero runs for cover.?!
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Great research! Well done!
Also, Persians don't have many Warrior class evil characters yet, so horses would be kinda pointless.
But they will once Darius, Xerxes, and Cyrus are made, right? :)
Someday. But not this year.
Well, I really hope that the King Cyrus card is a national promo a la AoCP...NOT Split Altar.
And in my opinion he should be a hero. When I read Isaiah 45, I see:
"Thus says the LORD to His anointed, to Cyrus,..."
and
"...For Jacob My servant’s sake, and Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name;..."
and
"...I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways; he shall build My city and let My exiles go free, not for price nor reward,” says the LORD of hosts."
I would like the last scripture to be the reference on a King Cyrus card.
I'm thinking King Cyrus is at least red and purple...maybe adding white...big numbers...warrior class... some type of CBN or CBI special ability. In fact, the possible special abilities for King Cyrus are so numerous. Relating to prophets he could discard all Babylonians, say, if a prophet is in play. Relating to Z's Temple there are endless possibilities, such as activating Z's Temple, recurring any temple, or how about this - search deck and discard for all temple artifacts and place face down in art pile. Pretty bold, eh?!?!
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Besides, wouldn't a one turn set aside return on their next upkeep phase, making it pretty much useless?
No because of Persian Presidents. That's why I changed it to warrior class rather than just Persian.
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Ah, true. I had forgotten about that. I still think X turns would be fun.
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Plus if Persians are going to start using set aside manipulation there could be more brown characters that say something like "if blocking a hero that was set aside do X." So it wouldn't matter if they came back next turn or not, they got set aside so it makes them more powerful regardless of lenght.
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Great research! Well done!
Also, Persians don't have many Warrior class evil characters yet, so horses would be kinda pointless.
But they will once Darius, Xerxes, and Cyrus are made, right? :)
Someday. But not this year.
Well, I really hope that the King Cyrus card is a national promo a la AoCP...NOT Split Altar.
And in my opinion he should be a hero. When I read Isaiah 45, I see:
"Thus says the LORD to His anointed, to Cyrus,..."
and
"...For Jacob My servant’s sake, and Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name;..."
and
"...I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways; he shall build My city and let My exiles go free, not for price nor reward,” says the LORD of hosts."
I would like the last scripture to be the reference on a King Cyrus card.
I'm thinking King Cyrus is at least red and purple...maybe adding white...big numbers...warrior class... some type of CBN or CBI special ability. In fact, the possible special abilities for King Cyrus are so numerous. Relating to prophets he could discard all Babylonians, say, if a prophet is in play. Relating to Z's Temple there are endless possibilities, such as activating Z's Temple, recurring any temple, or how about this - search deck and discard for all temple artifacts and place face down in art pile. Pretty bold, eh?!?!
how about a "If a persian EC is in your territory, this character is an EC. if not, he is a hero." type thing. that way it's versitile and adds some fun. Red/Purple and Brown. :)
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Gold does have a 1/1 Hero, silly! See?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKindness%2520%28UL%29.gif&hash=7bcdb1e24774f13c018dfa2c96638a5bb36b894f)
;)
WOW, can you use that in a deck, for a hero????
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I was curious about this. It seems every brigade now has a 1/1 hero or 1/1 evil character, which are of course great for getting initiative. Silver is missing one, but I understand it being angels, and you can get a 1/1 with Angel with the Secret Name if they are the only Angel out anyway.
But Gold heroes do not have a 1/1? Why not? Seems to put gold at a disadvantage in this particular category.
Thanks for helping me understand this.
Well, the gold brigade does have many lower numbers.
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hi123 pklease don't double post and kindness is't a hero.
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hi123 pklease don't double post and kindness is't a hero.
Why not? I know people named Grace and Hope. There may have been some dude named Kindness. Of course, he's only a 1/1 because with that name he was beaten up a lot as a kid.
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hi123 pklease don't double post and kindness is't a hero.
Why not? I know people named Grace and Hope. There may have been some dude named Kindness. Of course, he's only a 1/1 because with that name he was beaten up a lot as a kid.
:rollin:
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I like Sean's idea for the archer, but not so much for the chariots. Persians have nothing for decrease. Those are themes of Isrealites and people of Judah. Persians deal with set asides and sites. Maybe make the restriction have to do with having a certain site in play.
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I like Sean's idea for the archer, but not so much for the chariots. Persians have nothing for decrease. Those are themes of Isrealites and people of Judah. Persians deal with set asides and sites. Maybe make the restriction have to do with having a certain site in play.
That sounds good. I hope such a Site would be printed with a special ability similar to that of Mildewed House.
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Gold does have a 1/1 Hero, silly! See?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKindness%2520%28UL%29.gif&hash=7bcdb1e24774f13c018dfa2c96638a5bb36b894f)
;)
oh i had that!
DON'T RUIN THE ART!
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this thread is like a good hamburger laced with spam
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:miss:
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Gold does have a 1/1 Hero, silly! See?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKindness%2520%28UL%29.gif&hash=7bcdb1e24774f13c018dfa2c96638a5bb36b894f)
;)
Good Point, but are you allowed to youse that in decks for a hero? I mean, because it is an ERROR card!
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Gold does have a 1/1 Hero, silly! See?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKindness%2520%28UL%29.gif&hash=7bcdb1e24774f13c018dfa2c96638a5bb36b894f)
;)
Good Point, but are you allowed to youse that in decks for a hero? I mean, because it is an ERROR card!
U R NOT ALLOED TO US IT AS A HEREO
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And 9 years later, we finally have the Persian Horsemen & Horses...who would have guessed they would be the same card... :o
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flandofredemption.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F02%2F108-Persian-Horseman.png&hash=cb022acffbe889f14f8708753ed5c99eb1a7e80b)
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Throwback! Well done on finding this post haha
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And 9 years later, we finally have the Persian Horsemen & Horses...who would have guessed they would be the same card... :o
I mean... Definitely not me...
;)
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Throwback! Well done on finding this post haha
Was pretty random...I just happened to look at what posts people were reading, and decided to click on this one that a "Guest" was reading. Was definitely surprised to find the last post was exactly 9 years ago today... ;D
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What's even better is we have a 1/1 gold hero now too thanks to last set. So whoever is in this thread that quit in the last 9 years, time to come back out!
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Very nice. I like the option of drawing or targeting an artifact.
Godspeed,
Mike
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What's even better is we have a 1/1 gold hero now too thanks to last set. So whoever is in this thread that quit in the last 9 years, time to come back out!
And that hero's a Judge too! Which players were saying should never happen in this thread (I guess bcuz OP w/ Judge's Seat)
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What's even better is we have a 1/1 gold hero now too thanks to last set. So whoever is in this thread that quit in the last 9 years, time to come back out!
And that hero's a Judge too! Which players were saying should never happen in this thread (I guess bcuz OP w/ Judge's Seat)
Hmm, that's a good point. Ok, dumb combo time! Othniel in judges seat --> attack with Moses, friend of God --> Aaron (Dis) --> The Destroyer (PoC) --> Get blocked and play cbn plague of boils! Abra Kadabra, now all of the annoying little guys that Othniel can't hit have magically disappeared!
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Hmm, that's a good point. Ok, dumb combo time! Othniel in judges seat --> attack with Moses, friend of God --> Aaron (Dis) --> The Destroyer (PoC) --> Get blocked and play cbn plague of boils! Abra Kadabra, now all of the annoying little guys that Othniel can't hit have magically disappeared!
Or just activate Crown of Thorns ;)