Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: Crashfach2002 on April 03, 2011, 10:11:08 PM
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Because of this March Madness thread and our message at church tonight, I started wondering what really "big" characters in the bible have terrible abilities, if any abilities at all. People like Gideon, Samson, Noah, Barak are listed in the "Hall of Faith" chapter in Hebrews, but yet they are not worth playing in Redemption. So this got me wondering who everyone felt were the biggest characters in need for a more "useable" reprint? I'd like for people to PM me a top 20 list of the characters you would like to see, in the order you would prefer them! Then I will put together a top 50, or so, list depending on how many different characters I get!
Attn: Moderator; Please move this if this is not the location you would like this to be!
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Sampson, Mary mother of Jesus, Adam, Peter, Noah
More to come
Also:
Andrew, Joseph the Carpenter, Samuel, Deborah, Gideon, Ruth, Rachel, Sarah, Abraham (make his SA useful lol),
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Sampson, Mary mother of Jesus, Adam, Peter, Noah
More to come
+1 except for Mary. I would like to see a new version of Babylon the Great.
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Abraham (make his SA useful lol)
To be fair, Abraham is a beast in Booster Draft, especially if you happen to draft an Abraham's Servant to Ur and/or Covenant with Abraham. :)
I think Isaiah (OT) and Mary Mother of Jesus (NT) are the top two "Need reprint" Heroes.
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Gad.
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Deacons Nuff said. Even I have to admit that the current ones stink ::)
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Jonah
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I still would like to see a Smith Wigglesworth card.
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I would really like to see a David reprint. It'd be super powerful, and in 2/3 brigades. Green/Purple W/C prophet NEEDS to happen. That'd be so ridiculous. He wouldn't even need an ability, really.
Isaiah, Mary, Andrew (actually, he's quite good anyway...), Peter, Samuel, Deborah, Gideon, SHAMGAR, Gad, Deacons, Jonah, Ezekiel, Daniel (oh wait...), Noah, Samson, Barak, Adam, Silas, Barnabas, Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Onesimus...and I'm sure there are others.
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Pharoh. For being such a big character in the Moses story, why can't he do squat?
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Pharoh. For being such a big character in the Moses story, why can't he do squat?
This was kinda my whole feeling behind this thread. I mean lets think about it. Who do most people feel the top 3 most powerful characters are in Redemption? Moses, Thaddaeus & Susanna. I personally don't feel this is right. I mean, I love finding new people in the Bible based off of this game, but why are two of the three most powerful character only people "mentioned" in the Bible? I have a hard time trying to explain to new players that the people they grew up hearing about have no true place in this game, while characters that didn't play a "real" significant role in the Bible are in the top decks.
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I like it that way. That way you learn about little known people. I bet most people couldn't name all of the disciples, but once they play a disciples deck, the most likely ones they'll forget are Judas, Andrew, and Peter (almost exactly opposite of most people).
And Moses was WAY more than mentioned. Jacob too...Job too...
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I would really like to see a David reprint. It'd be super powerful, and in 2/3 brigades. Green/Purple W/C prophet NEEDS to happen. That'd be so ridiculous. He wouldn't even need an ability, really.
I mentioned this idea on some other threads, mine went something like this.....
King David
12/12
Green/Red/White/Purple
Warrior Class/Prophet/Musician/King of Israel
Set-Aside this hero for 6 turns if Uriah or Bathsheba enters play.
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Too broken. No SA means he could be protected from Windows of Narrow Light. He needs a useless ability, like "Band to Abigail and/or Bathsheba."
Unfortunately, then everybody would cry for reprints of those cards, and then he'd be too broken once again...
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Too broken. No SA means he could be protected from Windows of Narrow Light. He needs a useless ability, like "Band to Abigail and/or Bathsheba."
Unfortunately, then everybody would cry for reprints of those cards, and then he'd be too broken once again...
He'd also need an ability that could negate Hidden Treasures. Especially after haha...nice try comes out this summer...
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Negating all artifacts would be interesting...or all non-tabernacle artifacts...
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I like it that way. That way you learn about little known people. I bet most people couldn't name all of the disciples, but once they play a disciples deck, the most likely ones they'll forget are Judas, Andrew, and Peter (almost exactly opposite of most people).
And Moses was WAY more than mentioned. Jacob too...Job too...
I agree with this. I'd bet 9/10 God-fearing Bible-reading Christians have no idea who Ehud or Jephthah were or what they did, or that Kir was a city in the Bible. But at least 9/10 Redemption players know that. However, I do like how we are making some of the well-known Bible figures really good (like Daniel, Lazarus, Hehe...gotcha again., etc.)
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I do not support reprints of better publicized characters because people think they should be more powerful. That doesn't make any sense to me. I would much rather have new cards utilize obsolete cards, such as the reprint of Kindness that put Good Samaritan back on the map.
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And Moses was WAY more than mentioned. Jacob too...Job too...
I was talking about Susanna & Thad as just being mentioned. I'm not ignorant enough to consider Moses to be "mentioned." Last time I checked Exodus is pretty much his life story, so I guess that qualifies as "mentioned." ;D :P
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I think (OT) Joseph, Isaiah, Rebeckah, Saul/Paul, (OT) Saul, All the Emperors from Apsotles Set, Peter, Andrew, Servant Angel (Definately should be WC), Angel Chariots, most of the Good Kings (excluding the Kings from Theaurus and David), Pharaoh, Stronger than Men, Angelic Guidance, War in Heaven and that's just a couple of them.
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Too broken. No SA means he could be protected from Windows of Narrow Light. He needs a useless ability, like "Band to Abigail and/or Bathsheba."
Unfortunately, then everybody would cry for reprints of those cards, and then he'd be too broken once again...
Edit. Made him less powerful by making him have a negative ability seeing as Uriah and Bathsheba see so much play these days. ;D
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I think that they need to reprint "love"
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Because of this March Madness thread and our message at church tonight, I started wondering what really "big" characters in the bible have terrible abilities, if any abilities at all. People like Gideon, Samson, Noah, Barak are listed in the "Hall of Faith" chapter in Hebrews, but yet they are not worth playing in Redemption. So this got me wondering who everyone felt were the biggest characters in need for a more "useable" reprint? I'd like for people to PM me a top 20 list of the characters you would like to see, in the order you would prefer them! Then I will put together a top 50, or so, list depending on how many different characters I get!
Attn: Moderator; Please move this if this is not the location you would like this to be!
Heros:
Noah
Adam
Peter
Mary
EC's:
Locust from the Pit
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Megamanlan:Saul/Paul is good/played. Nero is from apostles and is played. Claudeius is played in 1-2 decks where I play so quit bagging saul/paul just cuz you think the 10th best character in the game isn't good.
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they should reprint ponshus piolate
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They should reprint Pontius Pilate.
He was reprinted in disciples.
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They should reprint SWS. At a very minimum, give it the erratta "may have 7 per deck"
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They should reprint SWS. At a very minimum, give it the erratta "may have 7 per deck"
For a total of 49 wicked spirits in a deck.
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They should reprint SWS. At a very minimum, give it the erratta "may have 7 per deck"
How about per 50 cards?
Then I could have 343 per 254 card deck lol.
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a couple Major ( if only majorly publisized ) characters that as of now uh....
ahem....
Jezebel
Jonathan
Mark
Luke
Ruth, etc. (Mini-Theme perhaps? )
Samuel
Hosea( bring it on gomer!)
Jonah
DAVID
SAUL
Phillies would like Goliath's Bro's
Andrew
Matthias(if not a disciple than a boost for them. like a 'Lay down ur life' type SA)
Timmy
Titus
Roman Jailer
and many others these all help some sort of theme
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"Manna", most of the prophets set, and most of the apostles set should be reprinted.
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Megamanlan:Saul/Paul is good/played. Nero is from apostles and is played. Claudeius is played in 1-2 decks where I play so quit bagging saul/paul just cuz you think the 10th best character in the game isn't good.
For Claudeius just make him compatible w/ the others and just make Nero WC cause the rest are. And Saul/Paul does need a reprint because every deck that I've seen him played in got beat badly. Besides why shouldn't they make him actually compatible w/ Pharisee's cause his current version isn't. I say make him fun.
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Paul was utilized quite well before TexP. After Grapes came out, he was badly injured. I would like to see a "Protected from shuffle" ability on him. You know, that way Grapes couldn't shuffle him. I'm sure there'd be no other consequences like Hidden Treasures + Paul + ANB x5 (with Thorns soul out)
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And Saul/Paul does need a reprint because every deck that I've seen him played in got beat badly.
That may be true, but probably because the people playing them are using him because he's cool as a multi-color Hero, and they don't really know what to do with him. I've won a majority of the games that I've played with him.
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And Saul/Paul does need a reprint because every deck that I've seen him played in got beat badly.
That may be true, but probably because the people playing them are using him because he's cool as a multi-color Hero, and they don't really know what to do with him. I've won a majority of the games that I've played with him.
You win the majority of all your games. ::)
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Actually I suggested a new Version of Saul/Paul. That gives a lot more fun for the card.
Saul/Paul
7/9 Gray Evil Character / 10/10 Multi-Color Hero
-Pharisee, Jew, Roman, Apostle-
[Saul] May Discard the top card of your Deck to Discard 1 NT Human Hero in territory. If this Son of God is played card is converted, Convert this card to Paul.
[Paul] May band to an NT Hero. NT Enhancements cannot be Negated. This Card is Protected from Capture (except by a Roman) or Conversion.
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You win the majority of all your games. ::)
I would definitely say that I have won the majority of my games in the past. However, since I've recently started playing a lot more T2, wins have been tougher to come by. So I couldn't for sure say that I still win a majority of my games... :)
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That's a good explanation. I still think that most of decks that use Saul. (Mostly Pharisees) Cannot use them competitively really well.
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Saul is garbage. Paul is pretty good. No reprint necessary though.
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I think as a NT/Roman/Pharisee, Saul is eventually going to be useful as an EC...however, his true usefulness as a card is as Paul, which I think is appropriate considering this is a game where Good overcomes Evil.
For the record, I have used Paul VERY effectively in both T1 and T2 decks. Grapes definitely hurt him, but Herod's Temple gave him a boost.
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Saul exists simply to be converted. Paul's far too powerful to be a "standard" hero, so the conversion is there to restrict him.
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I'm fine w/ playing a nearly useless EC just so u can try to convert it to a nearly OP'd Hero. My new version makes him less crazy and easier to turn to a Hero. Another point is that Good ends up winning in the end, but evil is still made to be very strong as well.
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Jonah
DEFINITELY. I've considered many SA ideas for him, but never has one i liked enough
he is likely the most unique prophet in the OT so i think it should be really solid
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Honestly, there are a lot of cards that truly need to be reprinted, But Jonah is definitely one of them.
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Honestly, there are a lot of cards that truly need to be reprinted, But Jonah is definitely one of them.
Jezebel
Jonathan
Mark
Luke
Ruth, etc. (Mini-Theme perhaps? )
Samuel
Hosea( bring it on gomer!)
Jonah
DAVID
SAUL
Phillies would like Goliath's Bro's
Andrew
Matthias(if not a disciple than a boost for them. like a 'Lay down ur life' type SA)
Timmy
Titus
Roman Jailer
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I bet they could actually make a series of reprints that would be about 100 cards or more.
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A big chunk of Di was reprints.
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I know. But I think they could actually make a set like Priests with only reprints.
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I know. But I think they could actually make a set like Priests with only reprints.
Priests had far more than reprints. See:curses.
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I'm just saying that will all the cards that could be reprinted they could make a set as big as Priests.
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They really need to make another big set. I'm hungering for more boosters. It's been what, five years? And longer since a starter. I wish they'd skip one year and come out with a booster. Better that than small sets two years in a row. Or four...
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Yeah, completely re-write the meta. And create another insane card like ANB.
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Making a worthwhile set would be great! And a set of 100+ would be great!
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Most booster sets were about the size of Di or smaller in terms of playable cards. Unless you make a habit of putting Inspection in your Teal decks ::)
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I still think that if they really wanted to they could reprint almost all of the old cards into new ones with cool effects and just make a set out of them.
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I vote for no more reprints! I mean seriously Melchizedeck was origianlly a Purple character from the Patriarchs. They remade to a Teal hero in the priests, but remembering that he was a king as well as a priest they Re-remade and made him a teal\purple hero keeping the same ability the whole time.
A very similar instance is Aaron, starting off as a green then going teal and now going green\teal.
If I had my way they would put a pause on the reprints and do a few more generic characters.
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I wouldn't worry over-much about generic characters or reprinting old, useless ones.
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They should make a new Babylon the Great cuz right now she's only Babylon the sub average :)
She'd go with the Revalation theme.
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They should make a new Babylon the Great cuz right now she's only Babylon the sub average :)
She'd go with the Revalation theme.
I think Babylon the great should be a protect fort for demons
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They should make a new Babylon the Great cuz right now she's only Babylon the sub average :)
She'd go with the Revalation theme.
I think Babylon the great should be a protect fort for demons
Demons already have a protect fort. It's called WS -> GoH
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They should make a new Babylon the Great cuz right now she's only Babylon the sub average :)
She'd go with the Revalation theme.
I think Babylon the great should be a protect fort for demons
Demons already have a protect fort. It's called WS -> GoH
Plus Babylon is a person.
On another note: They need to remake Paladin, yes he's not exactly a bible character but seriously he stinks!
He should be half teal and half red and have the ability: May band to a human hero. At any time during battle Paladin may interrupt the battle and heal any hero except Paladin.
I think that would be fun.
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So, an extra-biblical character that's randomly a priest?
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Who should have been printed in Teal before Teal was created?
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So, an extra-biblical character that's randomly a priest?
Okay so maybe making him teal is a bad idea but in other game specs a paladin is a combination of a warrior and a priest (focusing on attacking and healing) but being extra-biblical wasn't my idea...
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If you haven't learned it yet, you will soon: Redemption is a unique game and very much different than most other games.
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Demons already have a protect fort. It's called WS -> GoH
ITs only a protect fort when DD is active... And Wash Basin pwns GoH.
Plus Babylon is a person.
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird
From that verse it looks like Babylon the great can be a demon Fort ::)
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If you haven't learned it yet, you will soon: Redemption is a unique game and very much different than most other games.
Yeah, I've learned that. Actually I am the son of a partial owner of the game, and I played this game for many years now. I was just throwing around an idea that I thought would be fun.
And in response to mjwaree5 your right, it could go either way.
(But it would be fun to see it as both somehow) :)
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I'd say Isaiah and Jonah are my Top 2 at the moment... The only thing cool about Isaiah is his glorious beard (That's why he is nick-named "The Glorious Bearded Man" amongst some in our playgroup), and nothing else. Does Isaac have a good S/A? If not, I'd consider him as well.
I think, however, that the weirdest part is that the "Super well-known/played" Redemption characters, but less known Biblically, seem to have become that way by accident. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think those cards were necessarily intended to be "the most powerful" characters. I just find that interesting.
-C_S
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Issac plays an Enhancement from Genesis 18 to 22, I think, but he's white so he needs to be reprinted to Blue so he fits w/ the others and given a better effect.
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The only thing cool about Isaiah is his glorious beard (That's why he is nick-named "The Glorious Bearded Man" amongst some in our playgroup), and nothing else.
That's not true, have you seen his special enhancement?
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz18%2FLambo_Diablo_Svtt%2FRedemption%2FSHOOP-DA-WHOOP.jpg&hash=728195059dc8ca303d302880d10ca7a82c1a5cbc)
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Demons already have a protect fort. It's called WS -> GoH
ITs only a protect fort when DD is active... And Wash Basin pwns GoH.
Plus Babylon is a person.
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird
From that verse it looks like Babylon the great can be a demon Fort ::)
Started this idea last night, just finished it now:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz18%2FLambo_Diablo_Svtt%2FBabylon-the-Great.jpg&hash=0b8f602cf51eee0b0a9f0a2e1895443f6ca17f76)(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz18%2FLambo_Diablo_Svtt%2FBabylon-the-Fallen.jpg&hash=bbeb0abb06f04bc5065c35c2db819451d37c6db8)
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LOVE that card idea.
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Epic without precedent :D
Fits totally with what I thought would be cool. :) :) :)
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I kinda like it too. I'll be making a Card idea for it eventually.
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How did you make that card ???
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I used Photoshop. I'm a Graphic Design major, so I've had some practice with image editing.
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Now that is a Babylon the great. I love it great job on it looks awesome!
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Michael.
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Michael.
Ummm...What does that mean? ???
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He needs to be reprinted the most.
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Ooooooh... duh. :doh:
Samson too, he should be FBtN.
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Totally awesome card, Lambo!
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I know its not a "Character that needs to be reprinted" but Angel Chariots needs to be made into a normal chariot card instead of discarding a crimson character.
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I agree and make it Weapon Class. And Michael doesn't need a reprint...
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I think any hero reprints should be ones that have no special abilities.
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There are a lot of judges that can be reprinted.
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I don't know if they should reprint him, but, Mighty warrior is pathetic.
and if you read his refference it's talking about God... :(
Ooooooh...Yeah, totally.
Samson too, he should be FBtN.
Dunno why I said that... Michael ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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There are a lot of judges that can be reprinted.
Do we even have a Judges "theme?"
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There are a lot of judges that can be reprinted.
Do we even have a Judges "theme?"
We do in the same way we have a 3 John theme ;)
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Another person who desperatly needs a reprint is Doeg.
Normally I would say he needs to be brown 'cuz it fits. But the doegs slaughter card is pale green, so I guess that he should stay that way. My initial idea was...
Doeg
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 7 \ 6 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Discard a priest of the house of Ithmar. Cannot be negated • Identifiers: None • Verse: 1 Samuel 22: 18 •
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What about making him Brown/Pale Green?
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There are a lot of judges that can be reprinted.
Do we even have a Judges "theme?"
Yea, I think it's the OT White Brigade Theme, that's besides Daniel. Plus there's also Judges' Seat too.
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Nobody good is from the house of Ithmar. Except for maybe Abiathar, but he's protected from discard anyway...
There are a lot of judges that can be reprinted.
Do we even have a Judges "theme?"
Yea, I think it's the OT White Brigade Theme, that's besides Daniel. Plus there's also Judges' Seat too.
It's Gold. And it's awful (coming from the guy who played Luke/Judges in T2)...
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What about making him Brown/Pale Green?
Duh, shoulda thought of that :)
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Judges is good if you have a stall deck. It takes a while for the seat to be really effective.
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Couple that with a "watchful servant" and it's awesome!
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Except for the fact that you have to get rid of an unoccupied CP for Judge's Seat to work. Judge's are awful. Luke is better because they have battle winners (and good ones at that).
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Right now, Luke is a better choice but Judges does have some good tactics that could be of use.
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The problem with Judges is that they only have one really good and a couple usable Heroes. Their entire strategy is support cards and "if used by a Judge" Enhancements.
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That is a big problem for Judges. But I played a Judge Deck and CP didn't stop it at all.
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The problem with Judges is that they only have one really good and a couple usable Heroes. Their entire strategy is support cards and "if used by a Judge" Enhancements.
Two really good heroes. Moses and Ehud.
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Ehud is ok. If he didn't have First Strike he'd be really good. An excellent Judges support artifact would be one that Negates First Strike and negates all Sites and Fortresses during upkeep phase.
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Ehud owns Pharisees. That's all that matters (considering that's the only defense played). His first strike is nice against The Entrapping Pharisee. He's also really good against Phillies (which will be another popular defense), as he can CtB and decimate them by discarding Philly Outpost and all their evil characters with Sammy's Sac. Standalones he's okay against, because he can CtB KoT and own him with Sammy's Sac/Covenant of Moses, and then walk in with Good Samaritan and Kindness. An artifact that negated first strike would be really nice though...
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Like this? (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=26613) :P
I don't think Moses needs a reprint, however it would be nice to have a physical copy of him that has all his proper identifiers (whatever they are, lol).
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I agree. Moses is basically crazy as it is. But it would be nice to have him have all of his identifiers.
(Note: He is technically not a judge, as far as I know.)
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Moses is considered a judge in Redemption. There was some controversy over this, but it was ruled as being a leader before the time of the Kings and after the Exodus.
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He's mentioned by name by the verse on Judge's Seat.
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Someone else who needs a reprint is Shimei. If anyone in redemption needs a Taunt Identifier it'd be him.
I just can't think of what it'd be :dunno:
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I put a Taunt ability on Locusts from the Pit and made them so much better, I'll post it soon.
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Cool, love to see it!
Hopefully there are alot more Taunts in upcoming sets. They kinda bring back battle challenges.
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The problem with Taunt is that the meta right now is speed-heavy, which means a battle challenge is a waste of a turn with which you could otherwise be rescuing 1 of your 3 battle Lost Souls.
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There has to be no soul to taunt anyway.
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The problem with Taunt is that the meta right now is speed-heavy, which means a battle challenge is a waste of a turn with which you could otherwise be rescuing 1 of your 3 battle Lost Souls.
What I want is for the meta to not be speed.