Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Thinking Outside the Box #1 - Lost Soul/Evil Character

I'm going to share some rough ideas that do things that have haven't been done before in Redemption. These are untested and probably need more work before they are could ever see print. Your feedback is appreciated!

Concept: The Lost Soul can become a blocker, even for itself, however it's not supposed to allow you to eliminate a Redeemable Soul from your deck (to avoid a Lost Soul lockout).

Would him being discarded by Grapes count as being defeated?  Because if not, the blocking player could get rid of a soul that way.  Also since it says instead of awarding a soul, would this just become an auto-block if you have no other souls out, since you wouldn't be awarding one at that point?

I love this card, but it needs a little work to be usable. It would be too easy to get rid of a lost soul if kept this way.
 

 
This game does'n't need more speed bumps, but more of these cards to change the game in a good way without making new rules.

I came expecting Taco Bell.

Speed decks would still use it. It's an easy + 1. And of course Plot-enabler.

What if it could only block if holder has no evil characters in play . . . This would limit its use in game and then it wouldn't need a hopper clause

also if someone plays AoCP and this lost soul is in the land of bondage would it be discarded or rescued,   or would the EC part of the card be protected from opponent while in the land of bondage?

While its in a LoB it's a lost soul so you couldn't target it as an evil character.

I actually think allowing a person to discard it and potentially achieve lost soul lockout would be good.  I have wished this was a viable strategy.  Imo, the more variety of viable strategies, the better.  I think if there were a few more soul gen and soul recovery from discard, cards that it would be doable. 


If you want to avoid that, then I agree with the other comments.

Ring Wraith, that might be the best idea yet. Does anyone see any holes in his suggestion?

I think a better way would be "...convert this card to an evil character and add it to battle.", while the evil characters would be "Regardless of battle outcome, this card is converted to a lost soul. Cannot be Negated." Or something along those lines. You have to force it to block to avoid the lost soul lock out.

Close.  The main problem I see is that doesn't guarantee that the lost soul goes back to play if removed from battle somehow.  You could add "Regardless of battle outcome, this card is placed in your territory and converted to a lost soul."  I'm still not sure that would work if it was removed from game, though.  You would probably have to add protection from being removed but the ability is starting to get pretty long for one card at that point. 

What's ironic is how awesome this card would be against Thad X 11.  Thad would protect the evil character from adding itself to opponent's land of redemption.  Would it also protect the evil character from converting back to a LS, if it is a special ability that does so?  I think so.   

Quote from: jmhartz on May 08, 2012, 12:26:09 PM

Thad would protect the evil character from adding itself to opponent's land of redemption.

I think there's a general rule that a card can't be protected from itself, but I'm not 100% sure.

Yes, if this REG quote is correct.

Ongoing Abilities > Protect
Characters cannot be protected from themselves.

Quote from: Red Wing on May 08, 2012, 12:34:27 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on May 08, 2012, 12:31:39 PM

Quote from: jmhartz on May 08, 2012, 12:26:09 PM

Thad would protect the evil character from adding itself to opponent's land of redemption.

I think there's a general rule that a card can't be protected from itself, but I'm not 100% sure.

Yes, if this REG quote is correct.

Quote

Ongoing Abilities > Protect
Characters cannot be protected from themselves.

Then that means Thad cannot stop self-capture.  Hmm.

correct, I know I've used Am Slaves cap to generate a soul without being able to search because of Thad.

Humm, I was always told a character couldn't even enter battle if Thadd was protecting against it? Your telling me you can still put an evil character in battle? If so, you can the self capt if you play raiders camp?

the EC can enter battle, however he can't effect any of the cards thad protects.  I believe raiders camp specifies the ec captures a hero and since the heroes (even your own, the EC only can't be protected from himself) are protected by thad, raiders camp won't work.  However there are other ways to stop Thad when you get that EC in battle, like Herod's dungeon or Grapes of Wrath.

Or you return it to territory after battle but give the soul a once per game clause or do 285's idea of only allowing them to block if holder has no other evil character in play

The more I read this thread, the more I'm thinking that while this is a neat idea, it seems almost to hard to get the ability right for it to be worth it.

I disagree I think if we could come up with a balanced way to put it in play it could add a ton to strategy and game play I think we should get it hammered out so some version of the card could eventually end up in play

Besides this what forums are for haha

The problem is, I don't know that there is a balanced way to put it.  I feel like with this concept its going to be very hard to make it in a way that is not exploitable.

"If this character is removed from battle, attacker redeems it as a Soul at the end of turn if he has not rescued a Soul that turn. Cannot be Negated." How about that?

That's better, but one could still convert it to a EC and let it be discarded/converted/removed from the game (or in fact, do that themselves with say grapes of wrath) and then give up the soul in order to essentially get rid of a soul from their deck, which can be quite stalling (or even make it impossible for your opponent to win if you get rid of enough souls from your deck) with the  only rescuing souls from opponent's land of bondage rule, and create soul drought.  Half the time your opponent will probably do it for you to win the battle, and I don't think I like that.