Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: browarod on October 23, 2011, 04:58:10 AM
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Syrians of Damascus
10/10 Gray EC, WC
-Generic, X = # of your Syrians-
"Reveal the top X cards of deck. You may add to hand all revealed evil cards. If Damascus is in play, negate play abilities. Cannot be interrupted."
~II Samuel 8:5
Thirty-Three Thousand Men
12/12 Gray EC, WC
-Generic, Syrian-
"If you have 3 or more Syrians in play, and all your evil characters are Syrian, protect Syrians from opponents. Cannot be interrupted."
~II Samuel 10:6
Hadarezer
7/10 Gray EC, WC
-Syrian King, X = # of your Syrians-
"You may exchange a card in hand with a Syrian in deck to protect up to X OT Lost Souls from rescue. Cannot be negated if Shobach is in play."
~II Samuel 10:16
Damascus
Blue Site
-Syrian-
"This Site may hold one Lost Soul for each Syrian in play. When you block with a Syrian, you may remove a Lost Soul from this Site to draw a card."
~II Samuel 8:5
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33 Thousand Men is ridiculously overpowered. There's not even really any way it couldn't been seen as okay. I would change it to "If at any time during battle there are three or more Syrians in battle..." which, depending on the type of banding cards gray has (I really don't know), should theoretically be okay. Hadarezer is also quite overpowered. You can't really give possibly CBN protection of Lost Souls without a cost. I would say if you're discarding a card to search deck for a Syrian to protect, that would be okay.
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33 Thousand Men is ridiculously overpowered. There's not even really any way it couldn't been seen as okay. I would change it to "If at any time during battle there are three or more Syrians in battle..." which, depending on the type of banding cards gray has (I really don't know), should theoretically be okay. Hadarezer is also quite overpowered. You can't really give possibly CBN protection of Lost Souls without a cost. I would say if you're discarding a card to search deck for a Syrian to protect, that would be okay.
+1 I think 33 thousand men should say something like Assyrian Siege Army. I like Syrians of damascus though.
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I like how an evil character that requires 2 other evil characters from the same theme to get bulletproof status is oh noes SO OP yet one angel to one s/a-less hero (that the angel can search deck for) granting bulletproof status is not. I will say again that I think offenses are too powerful and that the root cause of the speed/drawing epidemic is to accomplish getting these OP offensive cards faster. The easiest way I can see to balance that is not to try and curb speed (because it doesn't work) but to make defenses stronger.
As for Haddy, unless you have some way of endlessly recycling Syrians into your deck, his ability IS a cost. Besides, Creeping Deceiver (the card I snitched the protect wording from) protects 3 souls for no cost other than they have to be in sites.
I like Syrians of damascus though.
Thank you. :)
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33,000 is way OP the game is practically over once you get out three syrians and with the speed there it today that isn't hard. Syrians have great banding and that is the only thing you could do to get by it.
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You do realize that 33TM is just a moderately better version of a protect fort that only works while he's in battle and is far more vulnerable in territory than a fortress?
And again, this ability requires 3 characters in play at all times. AUTOGID requires only 2 cards, and if you get the Angel first you can search for the other necessary card.
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I like how an evil character that requires 2 other evil characters from the same theme to get bulletproof status is oh noes SO OP yet one angel to one s/a-less hero (that the angel can search deck for) granting bulletproof status is not. I will say again that I think offenses are too powerful and that the root cause of the speed/drawing epidemic is to accomplish getting these OP offensive cards faster. The easiest way I can see to balance that is not to try and curb speed (because it doesn't work) but to make defenses stronger.
The angel under the oak and gideon together are terrible, and I don't think there should ever be CBN protect from everything, but at least there you can still do things to win the battle, like say protect lost souls from rescue, or use an end the battle card with your numbers being greater or something like that and he's still only a 6/6 and a stalemate or protecting lost souls from rescue still stops the rescue attempt. Having a 12/12 evil character CBN protected from everything is entirely broken since there is absolutely NO way to win the battle against it. You can't beat it by the numbers (since its just protected from your numbers anyway), and you can't remove it from battle.
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You do realize that 33TM is just a moderately better version of a protect fort that only works while he's in battle and is far more vulnerable in territory than a fortress?
I like how an evil character that requires 2 other evil characters from the same theme to get bulletproof status is oh noes SO OP yet one angel to one s/a-less hero (that the angel can search deck for) granting bulletproof status is not. I will say again that I think offenses are too powerful and that the root cause of the speed/drawing epidemic is to accomplish getting these OP offensive cards faster. The easiest way I can see to balance that is not to try and curb speed (because it doesn't work) but to make defenses stronger.
The angel under the oak and gideon together are terrible, and I don't think there should ever be CBN protect from everything, but at least there you can still do things to win the battle, like say protect lost souls from rescue, or use an end the battle card with your numbers being greater or something like that and he's still only a 6/6 and a stalemate or protecting lost souls from rescue still stops the rescue attempt. Having a 12/12 evil character CBN protected from everything is entirely broken since there is absolutely NO way to win the battle against it. You can't beat it by the numbers (since its just protected from your numbers anyway), and you can't remove it from battle.
+1
Syrians have a protect fort too. So all you need too do is get 33TM set up and then draw house at Rimmon and he's unstoppable.
House of Rimmon (FF)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Syrian Evil Characters in your territory from shuffle, capture, and discard unless Elisha is in play. • Identifiers: Play to territory. • Verse: II Kings 5:18 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers booster packs (None)
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The angel under the oak and gideon together are terrible, and I don't think there should ever be CBN protect from everything, but at least there you can still do things to win the battle, like say protect lost souls from rescue, or use an end the battle card with your numbers being greater or something like that and he's still only a 6/6 and a stalemate or protecting lost souls from rescue still stops the rescue attempt. Having a 12/12 evil character CBN protected from everything is entirely broken since there is absolutely NO way to win the battle against it. You can't beat it by the numbers (since its just protected from your numbers anyway), and you can't remove it from battle.
And that's a bad thing why? CBN battle winners do the same thing, you can't win the battle after those are played, so what's the difference? Defenses need more power if the game is ever going to balance out.
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The angel under the oak and gideon together are terrible, and I don't think there should ever be CBN protect from everything, but at least there you can still do things to win the battle, like say protect lost souls from rescue, or use an end the battle card with your numbers being greater or something like that and he's still only a 6/6 and a stalemate or protecting lost souls from rescue still stops the rescue attempt. Having a 12/12 evil character CBN protected from everything is entirely broken since there is absolutely NO way to win the battle against it. You can't beat it by the numbers (since its just protected from your numbers anyway), and you can't remove it from battle.
And that's a bad thing why? CBN battle winners do the same thing, you can't win the battle after those are played, so what's the difference? Defenses need more power if the game is ever going to balance out.
CBN battle winners are often a bad thing in and of themselves in my opinion, but that's beside the point. The difference is that this is basically an infinitely recurable CBN battle winner that you always get to play first and that can easily be protected in territory from opponents as was said before. I have nothing against defense becoming stronger, but stronger != unstoppable.
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I really wouldn't call this unstoppable. I will consider either changing it to 3 in battle or CBI (rather than CBN) but I really don't think it's necessary. If it means Syrians become another viable defense in this meta then I think it will have accomplished more good than harm. Diversity in choice of decks is never a bad thing.
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I really wouldn't call this unstoppable. I will consider either changing it to 3 in battle or CBI (rather than CBN) but I really don't think it's necessary. If it means Syrians become another viable defense in this meta then I think it will have accomplished more good than harm. Diversity in choice of decks is never a bad thing.
really its not unstoppable? Ok then, I get out three Syrians and House of Rimmon so no territory destruction on them for you. I block every rescue with Thirty-Three Thousand Men, how do you plan to get through? There are only a couple of ways total (pre-block ignore and choose the blocker are the only things I can even think of) to get through at that point, not to mention it will be crazy ridiculous in type 2 where you could have four of these guys.
I'm not saying I don't want Syrians to be viable, if fact I want them to be, I like to run defensive decks, I'm saying this card idea is grossly overpowered. It wouldn't increase diversity, Syrians would become the dominant defense with such a blatantly broken card.
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Angel Under the Oak + Gideon is different for a couple reasons. First off, Gideon is only a 6/6. Unless you play something to raise his numbers significantly, he can be beaten. Heck, even Hezekiah, who can become a 9/11 CBN protected hero, is quite manageable. A 12/12 Evil Character that's protected on the other hand, is not manageable, especially not when you consider that Syrians have a couple banding cards. The other reason is that protection is fundamentally different for offense and defense. For a protected Hero, that means that while that Hero cannot be killed, he still has to do something to kill his opponent(s) for a victory. A protected EC just has to exist. Since that EC cannot be touched by enhancements, dominants, or anything else in the game, and they have infinite defense, it makes an beatable auto-block every single time. As already mentioned, Syrians even have a protect fort, so he would be protected in territory as well.
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House of Rimmon doesn't protect from everything. Convert him or any of the other 2 Syrians and, oh look, no more protection in battle. Or use one of the many fort killers in the game to get rid of House and then do whatever you want to him. There are plentiful ways of getting around this, I don't anticipate the ability getting more than 2 blocks before any of the current offenses can get rid of him.
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House of Rimmon doesn't protect from everything. Convert him or any of the other 2 Syrians and, oh look, no more protection in battle. Or use one of the many fort killers in the game to get rid of House and then do whatever you want to him. There are plentiful ways of getting around this, I don't anticipate the ability getting more than 2 blocks before any of the current offenses can get rid of him.
Most decks I've ever seen don't use in territory conversion (because you know with your current wording of the card, you couldn't hit any syrians while your in battle) and not everything has fort destruction, and even if you kill the fort, you have to have territory destruction in your deck anyway. The card is broken, its a simple as that, and your never going to be able to convince me or a lot of other people otherwise.
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You're vastly underestimating this I think. Uzzah is considered one of the best ECs in the game, and that's because he's an autoblock, even though he has a cost. You're talking about at least one autoblock, and more than likely more unless your opponent is using Luke or Holy Grail. The point I'm trying to make is that, unless every offense techs for Syrians, and adds fort discard and conversion (the latter of which can be compensated for with Altar of Dagon, with Temple of Dagon so you don't waste an artifact slot).
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Changed the ability to CBI instead of CBN for all you whiners.
Most decks I've ever seen don't use in territory conversion (because you know with your current wording of the card, you couldn't hit any syrians while your in battle) and not everything has fort destruction, and even if you kill the fort, you have to have territory destruction in your deck anyway. The card is broken, its a simple as that, and your never going to be able to convince me or a lot of other people otherwise.
I know it's worded so Syrians are protected while he's in battle, that's the whole point....
It's not my fault you don't run territory conversion, lol. It just means you'd be unprepared to deal with this card. That is completely and entirely the fault of the deck-builder for not adding counters to something like this, not me for designing the card this way.
You're vastly underestimating this I think. Uzzah is considered one of the best ECs in the game, and that's because he's an autoblock, even though he has a cost. You're talking about at least one autoblock, and more than likely more unless your opponent is using Luke or Holy Grail. The point I'm trying to make is that, unless every offense techs for Syrians, and adds fort discard and conversion (the latter of which can be compensated for with Altar of Dagon, with Temple of Dagon so you don't waste an artifact slot).
TGT came out, defenses started having to tech for territory protection and not keeping blockers all in hand anymore. Thad came out, people had to tech for character ability prevention. This would be no different.
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Exactly, it would be no different. People hate TGT, and people hate Thad. I don't believe any strategy in the game should have to be teched for, unless you're specifically building an anti-meta deck.
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Exactly, it would be no different. People hate TGT, and people hate Thad. I don't believe any strategy in the game should have to be teched for, unless you're specifically building an anti-meta deck.
This I entirely agree with this. There should be no strategy so powerful you have to specifically tech for it or you can do nothing.
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Exactly, it would be no different. People hate TGT, and people hate Thad. I don't believe any strategy in the game should have to be teched for, unless you're specifically building an anti-meta deck.
I take it you don't use any cards with protect abilities then? Because any protect fortress is teching against specific strategies. Obadiah's Caves is a tech against capture and rfg, Z's Temple is a tech against everything it protects from, etc.
Also, just because you hate TGT and Thad doesn't mean everyone does, and doesn't mean they're "broken" just because you don't like them. I rather like TGT, it's a very interesting strategy.
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Sorry, let me rephrase: No theme should specifically have to be teched for.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, it just needs reworked, because as it stands, it's a bit overpowered. In fact, I love the idea of designing a whole defense around the idea that, the more cards in that defense that you have in play, the stronger the defense is. It would be great to encourage larger defenses like that.
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I would prefer not to make it rely on banding, so if I up it to 4 rather than 3 does that balance it enough (including the already made change of CBN->CBI)?
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All I need in my opening draw is this, two other Syrians, HoR and DoN to pop any potential Grails, and I'm set. I'd make it CBI.
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It IS CBI, lol. Also, that would be one heck of a draw, and highly unlikely.
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It's far more possible in T2. This and ANB reset FTW.
Whoops, somehow I thought it was CBN.
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It used to be CBN, but I made it CBI to try and help balance it.
I could remove the Generic-ness from it if that would help (though that would make it less Biblically-accurate).
I thought about making it bi-color to restrict the number you could have in a deck, but Syrians are gray and I couldn't find anything else to legitimately assign it another brigade.
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It used to be CBN, but I made it CBI to try and help balance it.
nah, that doesn't really work.
I thought about making it bi-color to restrict the number you could have in a deck, but Syrians are gray and I couldn't find anything else to legitimately assign it another brigade.
That should be the new brigade.
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I thought about making it bi-color to restrict the number you could have in a deck, but Syrians are gray and I couldn't find anything else to legitimately assign it another brigade.
That should be the new brigade.
Maybe I'm just tired, but idk what you mean. >_<
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They've been discussing a new brigade, we should make one for all the characters that don't fit in anywhere else.
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Lol, that's an interesting idea.
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I say just make it black or Crimson. I'd make 33,000 men CBP or just no CB.
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The problem is that'd really change the power level. With out a CB, you could change the SA to "Give opponent inish to win"
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Kittens is so right. Without CB-something, it's like ignoring them. Give them some initiative to do nasty things and then they negate him and win the battle.
The problem with CBP is that they can still do the above (nasty things with their inish and THEN interrupt/negate him and win). That's why I went with CBI. Preventing him before battle is fine, but once he's there he should be able to keep it otherwise he's just a 12/12 guy that will usually lose.
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Plus, it gives quirky FBTN a boost.
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This card would be awesome for side-battle combos. ::) ;D
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(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.static.flickr.com%2F6098%2F6294859836_6001b9530d.jpg&hash=02257de6554e478723bddf8bad5e4cab466a5624)
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.static.flickr.com%2F6111%2F6294335013_85383bf598.jpg&hash=ef9b546946f065909c5537446a8512e47467b6c7)
Hope you like them!
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I LOVE the pictures. I really would like to know where you get them from. ;)
Also, what template do you use for the cards? The one I use is nigh unto impossible to get the verse text block justified like on real cards (and like on your cards).
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I LOVE the pictures. I really would like to know where you get them from. ;)
Also, what template do you use for the cards? The one I use is nigh unto impossible to get the verse text block justified like on real cards (and like on your cards).
I'm using a template I made myself, but I do plan on putting it up for download once it's complete.
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I do plan on putting it up for download once it's complete.
I would like that very much. ^_^