Author Topic: Seth (revised) (Read 2923 times)

stefferweffer · « **on:** September 23, 2010, 01:54:05 PM »

5/4 Blue Unique Male Hero

If all your heroes are Genesis heroes, Seth ignores New Testament human evil characters.

"And to Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then men began to call on the name of the Lord." Gen.4:26

(Partial to this character because one of our sons is named Seth)

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #1 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:00:18 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on September 23, 2010, 01:54:05 PM

5/4 Blue Unique Male Hero

If all your heroes are Genesis heroes, Seth ignores New Testament evil characters.

"And to Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then men began to call on the name of the Lord." Gen.4:26

(Partial to this character because one of our sons is named Seth)

Fixed the wording. I'm not one for pre-block ignore, especially in the same theme as Zeb.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #2 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:10:45 PM »

I anticipated the possibility that this might be OP, and had a backup ability of Immune to NT evil characters, which would at least allow an EC to block and hopefully interrupt the immunity. Also changed the ability to NT HUMAN evil characters (since demons seem to have been around since the beginning). Would either of these be better?

To me, the ability is simply acknowledging that Seth and any human from the NT are separated by thousands of years.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #3 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:13:02 PM »

Much, much, much too powerful. If you're playing an N.T. defense and draw this before they draw Golgotha, gg. The other broad-target PBI characters don't work until the end of the game for good reason.

Master KChief · « **Reply #4 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:18:11 PM »

agree, nt defenses are the hottest defenses this year...this card would utterly destroy them single-handedly.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #5 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:20:39 PM »

Revising ability to Immunity then. At least in this case they can block.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #6 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:21:49 PM »

Now he's grossly UP. Good interruptable immunity is one of if not the worst ability.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #7 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:24:34 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on September 23, 2010, 02:18:11 PM

agree, nt defenses are the hottest defenses this year...this card would utterly destroy them single-handedly.

That might be going a bit far. Unholy Writ, Confusion of Mind, Golgotha (already mentioned), Golden Calf, Martyr, female only and NT only lost souls, Sites, Demons, etc, etc, etc.

Would it give them a problem? Sure, but I'm not sure about "this card would utterly destroy them single-handedly."

Master KChief · « **Reply #8 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:28:10 PM »

it...does? the only answers they have are the remedies you have provided, none of which fall under nt defenses (save the demons of course). so yes, the original seth would still destroy nt defenses on its own merit.

browarod · « **Reply #9 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:32:00 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on September 23, 2010, 02:28:10 PM

it...does? the only answers they have are the remedies you have provided, none of which fall under nt defenses (save the demons of course). so yes, the original seth would still destroy nt defenses on its own merit.

Christian Martyr isn't used in NT defenses? That's news to me. Unholy Writ can be put into pretty much any defense, as well.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #10 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:32:13 PM »

It would, though. Blue has Journey to Egypt so sites aren't a problem, the FbtN LS is running rampant so the restrictive LS's aren't a problem, Martyr can be healed from, UW is easily stopped, nobody uses Gold Cow, and CoM can be Discarded easily. Basically, it would come down to a race between drawing Seth (assisted by Stone Pillar and I Am Creator) before your opponent draws Golgotha.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:33:28 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on September 23, 2010, 02:28:10 PM

it...does? the only answers they have are the remedies you have provided, none of which fall under nt defenses (save the demons of course). so yes, the original seth would still destroy nt defenses on its own merit.

Wow that is a broad brush. "None of which fall under NT defenses"? Unholy Writ, Thirty Pieces of Silver, Confusion of Mind, Sites, Female only and NT only LS, Christian Martyr are never used in NT defenses? And if someone is using a NT offense (for examples Disciples), it seems silly (to me) to not have Golden Calf in your deck. Not to mention Destructive Sin, Image of Jealousy, etc.

I guess I don't see the problem to a card that would give these hot NT defenses that everyone seems to be using (here we go again) a moment of pause, and something else to prepare for. It also seems to me that pre-block ignore has been pretty hammered by now anyway.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:34:22 PM »

See my post for why Golgotha is the only answer to this card.

browarod · « **Reply #13 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:39:18 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 23, 2010, 02:34:22 PM

See my post for why Golgotha is the only answer to this card.

You do realize your post is almost entirely relative, right? In a deck built around any one of those, whether it be the capture, the discard, or whatever, you'd be hard-pressed to heal through every discard or undo every capture that the defense would throw at you.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:49:45 PM »

Quote

nobody uses Gold Cow

I never count... Though I don't get why people don't use it. Yeah it doesn't hurt TGT, Luke(Half their abilities are CBP/N anyways), and now Disciples but it seriously hurts everything else.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:52:07 PM »

Yeah, less than zero percent of competitive decks use O.T. Heroes not named Hur or Nathan.

Browarod, durkadurk. You're missing the whole point of why this card is OP. You don't have to deal with a whole defense of Discarding, just CM. You don't have to deal with a whole defense of Capturing, just UW/Magic Charms.

Master KChief · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2010, 02:53:17 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on September 23, 2010, 02:33:28 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on September 23, 2010, 02:28:10 PM
it...does? the only answers they have are the remedies you have provided, none of which fall under nt defenses (save the demons of course). so yes, the original seth would still destroy nt defenses on its own merit.
Wow that is a broad brush. "None of which fall under NT defenses"? Unholy Writ, Thirty Pieces of Silver, Confusion of Mind, Sites, Female only and NT only LS, Christian Martyr are never used in NT defenses? And if someone is using a NT offense (for examples Disciples), it seems silly (to me) to not have Golden Calf in your deck. Not to mention Destructive Sin, Image of Jealousy, etc.

I guess I don't see the problem to a card that would give these hot NT defenses that everyone seems to be using (here we go again) a moment of pause, and something else to prepare for. It also seems to me that pre-block ignore has been pretty hammered by now anyway.

ok, to put it in perspective, i was not suggesting a deck utilizing an nt defense would be shut down as a whole because of seth, mainly due to the aforementioned oft-used cards you have provided. i was just saying in general a nt human defense would single-handedly be shut down because of this one card. much like pretty much any defense is shut down by a correctly used zeb/watcher, despite the deck having other counters to both cards.

i can see the drawback to the original seth (being if they play with an ot defense or ot/nt mixed this card is sort of useless), but if my projections of the near-futures meta's are correct, nt defenses will be the biggest thing. and that much of a power creep in a single card is just way too much for it right now.

browarod · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:00:11 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief

but if my projections of the near-futures meta's are correct, nt defenses will be the biggest thing. and that much of a power creep in a single card is just way too much for it right now.

The PTB have said numerous times in the past that their main goal is variety in play. Why is it a bad thing to have a counter to "the biggest thing" when it means there will then be more variety in types of decks used?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #18 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:03:11 PM »

Counter, yes. Completely destroy, no.

lightningninja · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:25:22 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 23, 2010, 02:52:07 PM

Yeah, less than zero percent of competitive decks use O.T. Heroes not named Hur or Nathan.

Browarod, durkadurk. You're missing the whole point of why this card is OP. You don't have to deal with a whole defense of Discarding, just CM. You don't have to deal with a whole defense of Capturing, just UW/Magic Charms.

Priests?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:31:05 PM »

Ok, some people use Phinehas, but he doesn't mind his SA getting Negated very much since his only job is to play Zeal CBN.

lightningninja · « **Reply #21 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:38:37 PM »

Idk... there's still OT decks. Prophets use more than Nathan (Micah comes to mind) and Genesis heroes are used occasionally (such as Jacob and Zebulen). I agree it's not an excellent card, but you can still definitely make competitive decks that use OT offenses.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #22 on:** September 23, 2010, 11:10:25 PM »

What I find interesting is that you are only counting counters that its currently hard to counter. I mean seriously, I don't see him being that powerful, because the moment he got printed people would make deck that utilize OT characters or demons, and that would make him only sometimes effective. The counter to him is play a different defence. And all you need is 30% of the people using a OT defense that can effectively win and he's not even competive anymore because you if you lose 25% of your games you probably won't place. Plus the NUMEROUS counters that already exist, even if they can be dealt with they are still somewhat effective, You won't always have a heal or a counter to UW or Magic Charms, Golden Calf could easily be put into a deck, put a few OT characters that go along with your deck a little.

I don't think he's that much of an issue because he's not versitile enough to really be broken.

The Warrior · « **Reply #23 on:** September 23, 2010, 11:21:53 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on September 23, 2010, 02:49:45 PM

I don't get why people don't use it.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #24 on:** September 23, 2010, 11:52:54 PM »

CS, you're missing the point. This guys is a beast because, like TGT, he's one card that drastically improves the offense he's in. With him in your deck, you don't have to worry about N.T. Humans, and then you've got the whole rest of your offense to deal with O.T./Demons.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #25 on:** September 24, 2010, 12:22:08 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 23, 2010, 11:52:54 PM

CS, you're missing the point. This guys is a beast because, like TGT, he's one card that drastically improves the offense he's in. With him in your deck, you don't have to worry about N.T. Humans, and then you've got the whole rest of your offense to deal with O.T./Demons.

The "whole rest" of your GENESIS offense. I did not want him "splashed in" like happened with Garden Tomb, or the existence of Garden Tomb causing some of those heroes it affects to get splashed in, or other spashed cards like Uzzah, KOT, POTW, Strong Angel, Woman at the Well, COTH, Watchful Servant, etc. The only decks this card might occasionally help are Genesis decks, and even then only when facing largely (or exclusively) NT human defenses. But of course all of this discussion is over a theoretical card that will likely never be made anyway, even though I wish it was.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #26 on:** September 24, 2010, 01:27:12 AM »

The more I think about it, the more I actually like this card. It'd be cool to see Genesis develop a PBI theme now that PBI is easy to counter.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #27 on:** September 24, 2010, 10:04:32 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 24, 2010, 01:27:12 AM

The more I think about it, the more I actually like this card. It'd be cool to see Genesis develop a PBI theme now that PBI is easy to counter.

That's why it's not PBI now...

News:

Author Topic: Seth (revised) (Read 2923 times)

browarod

browarod

browarod