Author Topic: Card Ideas for Gospel of Christ Set  (Read 584 times)

Offline TheIrishman

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Card Ideas for Gospel of Christ Set
« on: October 21, 2020, 10:05:46 PM »
+1
I am VERY excited that the new set will be a New Testament set and focus on the gospels.  The only thematic material we have for the N.T. so far is the Disciples set, the I/J starter decks, Early Church, Persecuted Church, and Rev. angels and demons from RoJ.  The Disciples set is 10 years old, the starter decks have only basic abilities and mechanics (by design, of course), and clay rarely sees tournament play.  The Rev. angels and demons from RoJ and the Romans with some toys they've gotten from recent sets are the only strong N.T. themes at the moment.  I'm sure this new set will change that and give disciples and clay a big boost.

I would like to propose some card ideas inspired by the theme of the new set.  With all these cards, I tried to create what I thought was a good balance between power, playablility, and theological accuracy.  Perhaps some of these ideas could find their way into the new set in one way or another.

Spoiler (hover to show)
This was a REALLY tough one to not completely overpower.  I knew this card had to be a battle-winner and a "resurrecter" of some sort.  The first couple of versions of this card I came up with discarded or even banished all evil cards in play and was CBI.  I quickly realized there were no required conditions that I could attach to one of those abilities to balance the card's power AND make it worth having in a deck.  I also felt there had to be a consequence to activating this card's powerful ability.  I think the final version has a reasonable consequence paired with a great battle winner and a fitting resurrect ability.

Spoiler (hover to show)
This is a card that could have fit into PoC quite nicely as well.  It just felt right to have this card be a dual-alignment enhancement because on one hand you have the prophecy of the coming Savior who will be pierced in our place, and on the other hand you have Christ's pain on the Cross and his apparent weakness to the Roman soldiers.  For the good side I went with a pretty straight forward substitution/sacrifice ability.  The evil side I wanted to pack a hard punch, but I knew some restrictions would be needed.  Roman unity seemed like a reasonable restriction for playability and thematic purposes.  The regardless of protection makes the evil enhancement a very tempting inclusion in any Roman defense and cleverly incorporates the significance of the Son of God being physically injured into Redemption mechanics.

Spoiler (hover to show)
This one is really neat and unique.  I wanted this card to interact with Son of God or somehow generate a redeemed soul.  After some brainstorming I was able to create a card that combines both of those ideas and enables the holder to rescue a second lost soul when paired with Son of God without having to use a dom slot (i.e Second Coming or NJ).  The NJ restriction and required banish abilities ensure that it is not possible to get 3 rescues directly using a dominant.  The obvious appeal of such a card is that a player with an N.T. offense can use a character to rescue a second lost soul off Son of God thus freeing up a dom slot.

Spoiler (hover to show)
I bounced back and forth a bit on the structure of the ability for this card.  I wanted a "lose the battle to win the war" type of ability.  The trick was pulling it off cleanly and effectively.  The idea of the card is to essentially forfeit playing a negater during SI in the current battle in order to get a big benefit in the next battle.

These are some of my ideas.  Let me know what you guys think.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 10:08:05 PM by TheIrishman »

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Card Ideas for Gospel of Christ Set
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 01:27:17 AM »
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These are really cool!

For It Is Finished, since Jesus was taking away the sins of the world, I wonder if it would be too OP to have it say, "Banish your lone rescuing N.T. Hero in battle to discard all Evil Enhancements in all hands, decks, Reserves, and in play. Cannot be interrupted." It's kind of an idea similar to your Legions Held Back where you give up a rescue but might be better off overall if you build your deck around it. Making it a battlewinner and a Hero-resurrect card is pretty good though too for both gameplay and thematically.

I think Spear-Pierced Side might be a little underpowered. I don't think that the ITB and CBI make up for the fact that you can only use it if your Hero is being discarded. You could probably get away with saying "removed from battle" instead of "discarded", or "has special initiative" similar to Legions Held Back. And then I think the Unity on the evil side makes that half not quite as good. I think if you want to keep the Unity, it should do something more relevant to the Roman theme like capturing or hand control. You could just have it be TC for both sides and say "Reveal a player's hand and underdeck a card of a different alignment." Then you could just have Unity: Evil Humans (Roman) for both sides as well to make it balanced.

I really like the idea of The Repentant Thief, but I still think it could be OP. It basically just opens up a dom slot for TSC to play AotL or Chronicles twice. Maybe instead it could restrict you from playing good dominants for 3 turns (3 days), but even that would probably have too much potential in Type 1 with Darkness LS and SoG/Woman with Child tutors, and it definitely would be too good for Type 2. Not sure if there's a great way to tone it down without it getting too convoluted, but I do think it'd be cool to try and figure something out.

Legions Held Back is a little meh, to be honest, and I think it could be given a little more power. Granting CBN to enhancements isn't really worth losing the battle so you'd really only want to do it if you had no other choice, in which case you'd be better off having another "ITB and win the battle" type Enhancement in your deck. It would be cool if it interacted with Legion of Angels, or just angels in general, somehow too since it uses the same verse. Maybe "Place in territory: If an opponent would remove your lone N.T. human Hero from battle, you may discard this card and withdraw that Hero instead. Hero gains: "May band to any number of angels" for two turns." Maybe the limit needs to be one turn and maybe it needs to banish itself instead of discard, or maybe it doesn't need a limit because your opponent just needs to negate or remove the Hero, but you lose that battle and next time you come in with that Hero you get to bring the angel party with you. Seems like fun.

Krenko

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Re: Card Ideas for Gospel of Christ Set
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 12:15:45 PM »
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I like the designs, but can't really comment on power level since I am still pretty new :D

One thing I did want to mention with Legions Held Back though, by having the ability span across a couple turns, you are adding more things to remember for both players. It's especially daunting because the Legions card goes to discard, and most likely the current hero does too, (and then more things are going to happen, so they will likely get piled on, or banished, or shuffled, or, you know...) so there are no game objects to represent that ongoing(?) ability.

The solution that comes to mind first is having Legions drop some sort of token object and that has the ability for the next battle, and it banishes itself if it doesnt get used or something.

again, new to Redemption, but not gaming in general, so grains of salt, etc :D

Offline TheIrishman

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Re: Card Ideas for Gospel of Christ Set
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2020, 12:55:08 AM »
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Quote from: TheJaylor
For It Is Finished, since Jesus was taking away the sins of the world, I wonder if it would be too OP to have it say, "Banish your lone rescuing N.T. Hero in battle to discard all Evil Enhancements in all hands, decks, Reserves, and in play. Cannot be interrupted."

I was tempted to do something along these lines, but I felt it would be too devastating to too many decks.  This card certainly deserves the right to leave a massive dent when played, but as much as devastating your opponent's deck would make perfect sense thematically, I don't think it would work from a gameplay standpoint.  The fact that you would be able to plan your deck around that ability means it might as well only target your opponent at that point.  The following ability, however, could deliver a damaging blow to ALL players while leaving SOME room for your opponent to recover: "Banish your lone rescuing N.T. Hero to discard all evil cards in play and resurrect all Heroes in all discard piles and add one to battle.  Each player must skip their next battle phase.  Cannot be prevented."  I think this ability is a good meld of both of our ideas and could work well mechanically and thematically.  The "skip next battle phase" part keeps the effect of the card from becoming TOO long term and helps prevent a walk-in frenzy.

Quote from: TheJaylor
I think Spear-Pierced Side might be a little underpowered. I don't think that the ITB and CBI make up for the fact that you can only use it if your Hero is being discarded. You could probably get away with saying "removed from battle" instead of "discarded", or "has special initiative" similar to Legions Held Back. And then I think the Unity on the evil side makes that half not quite as good. I think if you want to keep the Unity, it should do something more relevant to the Roman theme like capturing or hand control. You could just have it be TC for both sides and say "Reveal a player's hand and underdeck a card of a different alignment." Then you could just have Unity: Evil Humans (Roman) for both sides as well to make it balanced.

Yeah after looking at it a bit more it does seem a little weak.  I seriously considered using “being removed from battle” or “has special initiative” as the trigger for the good side, so I think you suggesting those confirms that it should indeed be one of those.  I really like your ideas for the evil side using “Roman abilities” like capturing or hand control.  That definitely makes sense.  If the evil side were to remain the same though except for replacing the unity with “if used by a Roman (except an emperor)”, do you think that would make it appealing enough?  With some adjustments the current spirit of this card could work, but your TC “reveal a hand and underdeck a card of different alignment” idea is also pretty cool.

Quote from: TheJaylor
I really like the idea of The Repentant Thief, but I still think it could be OP. It basically just opens up a dom slot for TSC to play AotL or Chronicles twice…Not sure if there's a great way to tone it down without it getting too convoluted, but I do think it'd be cool to try and figure something out.

This card opening up TSC to play AotL or Chronicles twice is indeed a problem and one that I thought about but as you said, the problem is toning it down without getting too convoluted or taking away too much power from something else.  I really hope a solution to this problem can be found because this would be such a cool card!

Quote from: TheJaylor
Legions Held Back is a little meh, to be honest, and I think it could be given a little more power. Granting CBN to enhancements isn't really worth losing the battle so you'd really only want to do it if you had no other choice, in which case you'd be better off having another "ITB and win the battle" type Enhancement in your deck. It would be cool if it interacted with Legion of Angels, or just angels in general, somehow too since it uses the same verse. Maybe "Place in territory: If an opponent would remove your lone N.T. human Hero from battle, you may discard this card and withdraw that Hero instead. Hero gains: "May band to any number of angels" for two turns."

Thanks for be honest.  I completely agree.  Granting CBN to enhancements was the best I could come up with for this one, but I knew it was not that good.  I REALLY like the angel party idea.  That’s a brilliant tie in to the theme of the card and who doesn’t love an angel party!  I like the first half of your proposed ability, and I think a good way to word the gained ability would be something like, “Hero gains: “May band to any number of angels.  Limit once.””  I feel like the limit is necessary but wording it as “limit once” allows the player to choose when they use that band ability which I think fits in really well thematically.