Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: Korunks on September 09, 2011, 10:28:30 AM
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I am sure this idea has been presented before, but have we considered making a full set as players and submitting it to cactus? After looking over the Player Made cards post I think we could easily accomplish it. Or has it been expressed that they would have no interest in that?
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All the sets are already made by players :p
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I would be up for it, so long as these cards are in it:
Miraculous Handkerchiefs
Artifact
Prevent all discard abilities.
First Shall be Last
Artifact
Invert all abilities.
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It's a bad idea. How do we decide who gets to submit cards?
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It's a bad idea. How do we decide who gets to submit cards?
Everybody can submit cards, but limit to 5 or 10 per member?
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Do all cards get in? I don't want Jonny's bad card making to affect the viability of my cards being considered.
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Do all cards get in? I don't want Jonny's bad card making to affect the viability of my cards being considered.
WHAT!?!?! I will have you know that the 3 cards I have ever taken the time and energy to submit were fantastic.* (Though I didn't do the actual work to put it together for lack of editing software). People loved them! One even WON an online submission card contest.
How DARE you!?!?!?!?! :-*
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Actually I was thinking along the lines of forming a group of Seasoned and knowladgable players to form the verification group. They would look at the submissions, select the cream of the crop and those would be what makes it into the set. Then they(and several others) could playtest it and balance it. If it the final product was good, who knows what could happen.
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So basically, let's make a new set of elders with not as much authority? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but picking and choosing a "verification group" immediately turns me off to the idea. If that's the only way to sift through card submissions, I just say let the people who already do it, do it. I know that the New Card Ideas forum DOES get looked at, so it would accomplish roughly the same thing.
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So basically, let's make a new set of elders with not as much authority? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but picking and choosing a "verification group" immediately turns me off to the idea. If that's the only way to sift through card submissions, I just say let the people who already do it, do it. I know that the New Card Ideas forum DOES get looked at, so it would accomplish roughly the same thing.
The whole idea is I wanted to see what the people who don't currently make the cards would do if they had a chance at designing an expansion. Yea it would primarily be for fun, but so is everything else we do in this spot of the forum. And who said anything about elders? AFAIK elders don't make cards, they rule on cards. I am talking about forming a group of people that can separate the wheat from the chaff so anything that came out of a player made expansion would not be useless junk. If we let any one submit whatever card they wanted we would probably have a bunch of useless cards. If you don't want in thats fine, no one's forcing you.
I think if anyone was interested in trying this out I say lets do it.
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I think the idea is solid. I have always thought that Cactus should consider printing cards that are created by players. Over the years there have been a plethora of great card ideas that have seemingly gone to waste. Some of the ideas end up on cards, but so many more do not.
About the elders, I know that at least a handful of them are involved in creating new cards and playtesting.
Kirk
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Again though, I think actually appointing people to glean through them ruins some of the potential community togetherness this would promote. Some kind of voting system or even just letting it go to the people in general to comment and refine ideas would work. Of course, this is your idea so implement it as you please- I'll be happy to participate regardless. I'm just throwing my opinion out there.
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As an avid card idea maker, I would love to see something like this happen.
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Not only would I love to participate in something like this, but I think the possibility of having your own ideas made into real cards would attract more players to the game.
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I'm really liking this idea the more I think about it. People are always coming up with cards that would be perfect to counter the meta, and if they are released you could probably have (dare I say it) equal decks to play with. It would also get a larger "playtesting" group.
If someone wanted to make a card, it could go through the many of the active players revisions before even being thought of being printed.
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I nominate:
Gabe
RDT
uthminister
browarod
Minister Polarius
2 out of the 5 are playtesters that already make cards ::)
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I think this would be a great idea, but the person who submitted it should have final say if they want it to show up in an expansion. If it was edited beyond recognition, they should be able to say they don't want it in that form. Also, it would be really cool to have recognition for the submitter - maybe that could be what's in the bottom left corner instead of a little set symbol. That being said, I would like to submit the most inbalanced card in the game as a suggestion for said player-made set. If this is ever printed at all, it should be only one printing. In all the packs. Ever.
God
Infinity/infinity multicolor hero
Regardless of immunity, remove from game all opponent's cards except Lost Souls. Rescue all Lost Souls in play. Cannot be negated. May activate if discarded or removed from game.
Reference: Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
What do you mean? That isn't broken at all! ::)
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if this happens, would you have to be a member to post a card? I do think this is the best idea yet.
I think this would be a great idea, but the person who submitted it should have final say if they want it to show up in an expansion. If it was edited beyond recognition, they should be able to say they don't want it in that form. Also, it would be really cool to have recognition for the submitter - maybe that could be what's in the bottom left corner instead of a little set symbol. That being said, I would like to submit the most inbalanced card in the game as a suggestion for said player-made set. If this is ever printed at all, it should be only one printing. In all the packs. Ever.
God
Infinity/infinity multicolor hero
Regardless of immunity, remove from game all opponent's cards except Lost Souls. Rescue all Lost Souls in play. Cannot be negated. May activate if discarded or removed from game.
Reference: Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
What do you mean? That isn't broken at all! ::)
No.
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God
Infinity/infinity multicolor hero
Regardless of immunity, remove from game all opponent's cards except Lost Souls. Rescue all Lost Souls in play. Cannot be negated. May activate if discarded or removed from game.
Reference: Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
Considering that defaults to play, there'd be ways around it...
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God
Infinity/infinity multicolor hero
Regardless of immunity, remove from game all opponent's cards except Lost Souls. Rescue all Lost Souls in play. Cannot be negated. May activate if discarded or removed from game.
Reference: Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
Considering that defaults to play, there'd be ways around it...
How? Tell me so I can break it more... uh, I mean, fix it.
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What is being proposed here kind of sounds like the entire point of this board except with gatekeepers.
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Except that currently the card idea's are a little scattered. I was thinking we could lay out a plan for the set, to provide focus and see what stuff we could come up with. For example, we could focus on brigades that got left out in the last expansion for example. I was just brainstorming.
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Either that or, have the "elders" of the group decide upon what TYPE of cards / card themes need to be worked on or created. Then, a thread is posted with a list of things that need to be addressed, and everyone else can submit their ideas. From there the "elder group" can pick out the best, work with the creator of ideas to tweak them a bit, and make sure they all generally fit together. Then, playtest them.
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God
Infinity/infinity multicolor hero
Regardless of immunity, remove from game all opponent's cards except Lost Souls. Rescue all Lost Souls in play. Cannot be negated. May activate if discarded or removed from game.
Reference: Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
Considering that defaults to play, there'd be ways around it...
How? Tell me so I can break it more... uh, I mean, fix it.
Anything that doesn't specify a location defaults to play. Thus, it'd remove from the game all of opponent's cards in play. Then, you just need to activate Unholy Writ, rescue with Tribal Elder (from hand) and band to God, and both of you have nothing. You then use Unholy Writ and capture God. Put it in Leper Colony just for lulz.
Either that or, have the "elders" of the group decide upon what TYPE of cards / card themes need to be worked on or created. Then, a thread is posted with a list of things that need to be addressed, and everyone else can submit their ideas. From there the "elder group" can pick out the best, work with the creator of ideas to tweak them a bit, and make sure they all generally fit together. Then, playtest them.
A group to decide the theme of the pack
A group to create those themes
A group to playtest those themes
Lambo to put art to ALL of the cards
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I'd be up for it as long as I'm not busy with classes. :P
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I really like this idea.
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I nominate:
Gabe
RDT
uthminister
browarod
Minister Polarius
2 out of the 5 are playtesters that already make cards ::)
Sorry, I wasn't sure who was a play tester and who wasn't. Judging by the -1s, I guess I didn't make a very good list though.
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God
Infinity/infinity multicolor hero
Regardless of immunity, remove from game all opponent's cards except Lost Souls. Rescue all Lost Souls in play. Cannot be negated. May activate if discarded or removed from game.
Reference: Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
Considering that defaults to play, there'd be ways around it...
How? Tell me so I can break it more... uh, I mean, fix it.
Anything that doesn't specify a location defaults to play. Thus, it'd remove from the game all of opponent's cards in play. Then, you just need to activate Unholy Writ, rescue with Tribal Elder (from hand) and band to God, and both of you have nothing. You then use Unholy Writ and capture God. Put it in Leper Colony just for lulz.
Tribal Elder can only band to a human, but I see what you mean. Hm...
Regardless of protection or immunity, remove from game all cards in opponent's hand, deck, discard pile, play, and set aside to rescue all Lost Souls in decks, discard piles and fields of play. If removed from draw pile without being drawn, put in field of battle instead (even if there is no current battle). Protect from all capture, harm, remove from game, etc. abilities. Cannot be Negated.
Leper Colony would be hilarious, but it might take a while to do anything...
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I could get behind this iff someone involved knows how to make custom RTS expansions.
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I could get behind this iff someone involved knows how to make custom RTS expansions.
Custom Expansion Creator (http://rts.captainofthehost.com/cec.htm)
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Alright, if we can get someone to agree to do the images and someone to create the RTS expansion, we'll start taking nominations for the card creation committee.
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All Cards From all Submitters will be given EQUAL consideration Correct? I Don't Want an Awesome Card by NewMember123 to be passed over just because there is a card by one of the more known or Important Players. (If this is being compared to the whole goal of the New Card Board, Then I've Posted Card I thought thought were really Interesting and gotten only like 4 comments, where as (I Thought) Really boring cards by a more Know member would get 4 PAGES)
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I'd be happy to help with the RTS expansion. Filling in forms is something I'm really good at. :P
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@ Warrior, all cards will be given equal consideration. I will personally look through every entry. Something that will cause an entry to be rejected immediately, before I even look at the content, is illegibility. I'm not saying it has to pass muster in an English paper, but if I get a card that looks like this:
jesus heals lazarus
a good card, brigade any
heal a hero instead of discarding it and everybody draws a card
verse dont know
It won't even get consideration. Other than that, the idea would have to be pretty terrible to not make it into committee.
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your example is actually completely legible. just not a well thought out card.
i also dont think its completely necessary for one person to handle all aspects of the card making. for example, if someone had an idea for a really good special ability, perhaps someone else could handle finding a verse and title fitting for it. after all, not everyone on these boards are that well-versed in the bible.
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Considering the amount of work the "Elders" will have to put in, it'd be at least nice to provide all parts of a card. Submissions for art would be nice too, to save Lambo some work.
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I feel the need to point out, Pol, that at this stage you don't have any official role in this yet. While I'm sure you will end up on this "committee", you're basically jumping the gun at this stage by saying you will personally look at every entry and you won't even consider certain ones.
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I volunteer for a card creator. I will not be held responsible for any cards that make obscure combos work. Any cards that Sauce says is a brilliant card idea will be put forth.
Aaand this is one reason why I'll never be a playtester/card-creater. ;D
I feel the need to point out, Pol, that at this stage you don't have any official role in this yet. While I'm sure you will end up on this "committee", you're basically jumping the gun at this stage by saying you will personally look at every entry and you won't even consider certain ones.
Who is heading this up anyway? Korunks?
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Who is heading this up anyway? Korunks?
It sounds like this will be headed by a "committee" of members, but I would assume that since this is his idea, he should get final say on everything.
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Who is heading this up anyway? Korunks?
It sounds like this will be headed by a "committee" of members, but I would assume that since this is his idea, he should get final say on everything.
So who gets to decide who's on this committee?
I think whoever it is (assuming it's Korunks) should form the committee and they should decide on a theme (Priests, Kings, etc) ASAP. After they sort through the first wave of card submissions, they tell what they still need. So on and so forth until they have 150ish cards.
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Well once the "committee" is formed they will have final say on what goes in. I would like to stay involved and be on the team. I guess since it was my idea that I will run the process of forming the committee. I would think 5-7 people would be sufficient. Too avoid this looking like a favorite contest I will be evaluating on a first come first serve basis to form the committee. I am looking for seasoned and knowledgeable players(although I may not fit that criteria) and so far we have:
Korunks
Minister Polarius
Lamborghini_diablo
BubbleBoy
Ring Wraith (?)
Those are the only ones who have volunteered so far.
Either that or, have the "elders" of the group decide upon what TYPE of cards / card themes need to be worked on or created. Then, a thread is posted with a list of things that need to be addressed, and everyone else can submit their ideas. From there the "elder group" can pick out the best, work with the creator of ideas to tweak them a bit, and make sure they all generally fit together. Then, playtest them.
This was pretty much what I was thinking. The committee needs to figure out what we want the set to look like, what themes we want. And then break it out. I think once we form the group that we should break these tasks out to their own threads.
So what do you guys think do we have enough on this committee or should we pick up a few more members?
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I would like to be in charge of visuals and art if it is ok with Korunks.
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I am not planning on having any one person in charge of a whole part of this. I know Lambo has some interest in working with the art and visuals as well, perhaps we could collaberate? So I take it you are volunteering? :)
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I am not planning on having any one person in charge of a whole part of this. I know Lambo has some interest in working with the art and visuals as well, perhaps we could collaberate? So I take it you are volunteering? :)
Yeah that would be great
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Perhaps the once the ideas are finalized, the art could be divided among all those who volunteer. One consideration though is I'd like the art to maintain a constant level of quality. So, you could be as eager as you want, but if all you have is Paint, I'm not sure you should make the images for this.
Also, among the visual artists, we should verify that we're all working with the same size, same style (IE. shadows behind the text), etc. In other words, you shouldn't be able to tell multiple people made the art.
If we're gonna do this project for real, I think we should treat it seriously and make sure the final results are the best possible quality in all areas of the process.
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I think there should be two stages. One person to shift through ALL entries, or maybe 2 or 3 people, just to check for overpowered obviously cards. Like the Jesus card in this thread. Not to make judgment calls, just to find the obvious cards that are just "no way that's too broken." I'd be willing to do this, if people are okay with that. It really requires to judgment, so I'll be good at it. :D
I like Lambo's post above, and I agree. Unfortunately I don't have any good card creation programs, but I'd be willing to help out in any other areas.
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If you are still taking committee applications I'd like on.
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So after four pages, it seems like the following is what needs to be done:
1. Form the group that runs the show.
2. This group would then discuss what we feel the current meta needs added or weakened.
3. This is then posted. People would be encouraged to fill these needs, but if they have a brilliant idea that doesn't exactly fit one, they can still submit it.
4. After a certain length of time, or when we hit a set number of entries, the group in charge sifts through the list and makes a list of overpowered or underpowered cards.
5. That list could either just be removed, or we could work with the original makers to fix them.
6. All the remaining ones are tweaked for grammar etc, then we could probably make a playtest expansion with no art to test them.
6. Once we are happy with the list, the art is made, and the custom expansion is finalized, then released for use (just remember that both players need to agree to use these cards).
Does that sound about right?
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If you need another person to do art, I'm pretty good at making cards and I'd be happy to help.
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I volunteer to be on the committee if there is still room.
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So after four pages, it seems like the following is what needs to be done:
1. Form the group that runs the show.
2. This group would then discuss what we feel the current meta needs added or weakened.
3. This is then posted. People would be encouraged to fill these needs, but if they have a brilliant idea that doesn't exactly fit one, they can still submit it.
4. After a certain length of time, or when we hit a set number of entries, the group in charge sifts through the list and makes a list of overpowered or underpowered cards.
5. That list could either just be removed, or we could work with the original makers to fix them.
6. All the remaining ones are tweaked for grammar etc, then we could probably make a playtest expansion with no art to test them.
6. Once we are happy with the list, the art is made, and the custom expansion is finalized, then released for use (just remember that both players need to agree to use these cards).
Does that sound about right?
Yea that sounds about right. Just waiting to see if all those on the committee so far are ready to go and we should be free to discuss #2. I think we may have all the people we need for now. We have:
The volunteers:
Korunks
Minister Polarius
Lamborghini_diablo
BubbleBoy
Ring Wraith (?)
Daniel
Eric the Wolfe
lightningninja
Red
The M
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"The "Committee" " sounds like a Martin Scorsese film title. :laugh:
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Imo that's far too many people. Nothing will ever get done if there are more than ~5 people. Of the people who have volunteered/been volunteered, I would pull for Korunks, myself, Lambo, Eric, and Lightning Ninja.
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I would agree that it's too many people to be efficient, and Polarius' list sounds pretty decent. If we can fit more though, Bubbleboy does have some good card ideas and input. :)
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I wouldn't be opposed to that. He missed my preferred list simply because of age and availability, rather than any lack in ability.
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Hrmm, I agree that 10 maybe too many. I like Pol's list, but would like to have BubbleBoy as well. Anyone else who volunteered may still be able to help, we just need to limit the guiding committee.
So then the "final cut" for the committee is:
Korunks
Minister Pol
Lambo
Eric
Lightning Ninja
BubbleBoy
How does that work for everybody? Should we start a separate thread for discussion on the set? Or will this Project be so large that it would require a child board?
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We should break it into creators and artists. Lamborghini can be a crossover for both maybe.
I'd help however you'd like.
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I was actually thinking about asking Schaef to make a child board if its not too much of a hassle. (and maybe the "committee" could all be mods?)
Also, as Alex said, I volunteer myself for double duty. I love both aspects of card making. :)
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i can do quality control. you guys do all the work, i'll look over it. ;)
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A couple of questions:
1) is there any copyright issues here?
2) is past cards up for consideration (some of my favorites: "Star of our gods" (mine) & "Lucifer" (Gil--really old and may have not made the purge)?
3) if a card is initially frowned upon is there any system considered to tweak it or is it outright axed?
4) who defines the "meta" fixing cards--just the five judges?
5) will game changing cards (like YMT's clock/era of time cards) be considered? (something that would introduce a new card type to Redemption)
My background: I have a lot of great ideas that I stopped submitting once I realized that Cactus never really looked at the New Ideas board. So I stopped wasting my time. That is why I like this idea. I don't have a good "paint" program, but I can search for pictures and submit the rest of the info. Therefore, if you guys are accepting...I could be a "creator," but any non-liked card and I would like feedback: not flat rejection.
Just my :2cents:
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1. I don't see why there would be. Cactus has a whole board designed to make new card ideas, and there is a mechanism on RTS for turning them into RTS cards. As long as nobody tries to sell any of this, there should be no problem.
2. Yes.
3. Submitting it again with modifications may help, but if the whole idea of a card is rejected it probably won't make it in.
4. Yes (six if we add BB).
5. Yes, but the new card type would need a reason for existing. Most new card types tend to be no different than fortresses or artifacts except in name.
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My background: I have a lot of great ideas that I stopped submitting once I realized that Cactus never really looked at the New Ideas board. So I stopped wasting my time.
FTR, I look at new card ideas, especially during a season when we're testing a new set. I'm pretty sure a couple of the other newer elders do too. But I don't look at every single idea all year long.
Card ideas submitted by players inspired (in part) a few of the cards in the 2011 set. I specifically recall searching for every Joseph ever submitted and I also looked through a lot of ECs when creating Assyrian Survivor. Not every idea gets incorporated or makes it through testing, but some do. Player ideas are a big part of the reason that Joseph is blue and green instead of just blue. It's also one of the reasons we heavily tested him with the ability to hold Coat of Many Colors.
One thing that is extremely important if you want your idea to have a chance to see print, make sure it ties in well with the scripture reference (or surrounding scripture) used for your card.
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That is one thing I do/did is tie the Scripture in with the card (see "Compassion for Ninevah"--pretty confident that was the name for the card).
I may start tinkering with it again. One of my ideas on file was an Orange brigade 7 card theme for the 7 deadly sins. In addition to special abilities, I was trying to get them to work together to form one super special ability.
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i think a set designed around Revelation would be awesome.
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Would the "committee" members have equal opportunity to submit card ideas, or would they be trusted not to favor their own ideas over others'?
Also, I would be willing to help with images, but I don't have the best art sources, and I would need to tweak a few aspects of my design process, so maybe others are better qualified. I also would be honored to be on the committee, but am totally fine either way.
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(and maybe the "committee" could all be mods?)
I like this idea primarily because I was at work and unable to affirm my volunteering for being on the committee. I have loads of free time (most of which is at work), and I was joking about the whole combo creating scenario. I'm not going to break...well...I won't say just yet, in case Cactus makes a mistake, but it won't be by my hand if the opportunity arises. I'm not the best at creating cards (limited use of GIMP), but I do enjoy creating the card ideas, themes, unique abilities, etc. I guess I really don't need to be on the committee to do this though, so whatever.
i think a set designed around Revelation would be awesome.
So long as Angels weren't the main focus of this set, I'd be fine with it. Unfortunately, I fail to see how a Revelation set would work without making Silver viable on it's own, a topic I've been quite outspoken about.
I'd like to see Persians, whatever the case may be.
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Themes that have a high likelihood of being boosted are Syrians, Heretics, Persians, Romans, Deacons/Acts Heroes, and Greeks.
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I personally think it would be cool if Jonah could be reprinted. Hes a major character and has an entire book named after him, yet his character still has no special ability.
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Jonah could be reprinted for sure, but he's no Isaiah. He spends much of his book running from God, then when he repents and goes to Nineveh, he's peeved that the Assyrians convert. His record in the Bible ends with him pouting outside the city getting a lecture from God.
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Hrmm, I agree that 10 maybe too many. I like Pol's list, but would like to have BubbleBoy as well. Anyone else who volunteered may still be able to help, we just need to limit the guiding committee.
So then the "final cut" for the committee is:
Korunks
Minister Pol
Lambo
Eric
Lightning Ninja
BubbleBoy
How does that work for everybody? Should we start a separate thread for discussion on the set? Or will this Project be so large that it would require a child board?
I've been kicked off? I just wanted to help make the card images, and I don't think there can be too many people doing that.
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Hrmm, I agree that 10 maybe too many. I like Pol's list, but would like to have BubbleBoy as well. Anyone else who volunteered may still be able to help, we just need to limit the guiding committee.
So then the "final cut" for the committee is:
Korunks
Minister Pol
Lambo
Eric
Lightning Ninja
BubbleBoy
How does that work for everybody? Should we start a separate thread for discussion on the set? Or will this Project be so large that it would require a child board?
I've been kicked off? I just wanted to help make the card images, and I don't think there can be too many people doing that.
Just because you aren't on the "committee" doesn't mean you can't help with the set. It means that you won't be making the decisions about where the set is going.
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My understanding was that the purpose of the "committee" was mainly to restrict, receive, review, and reform the submitted card ideas. I'm pretty sure it won't be responsible for making the final images, although a lot of the people on it will probably do so.
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I say we make two lists, one for the "committee" and one for the artists. I definitely nominate Daniel and Eric the Wolfe to help out with the art.
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I say we make two lists, one for the "committee" and one for the artists. I definitely nominate Daniel and Eric the Wolfe to help out with the art.
Definitely agreed.
And let's all agree that we are making SUPPORT cards for the underused themes, not the new Samuel for every theme.
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And let's all agree that we are making SUPPORT cards for the underused themes, not the new Samuel for every theme.
You can't control me. I'm my own person.
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That will be part of the purpose of the committee. It's unlikely that a broken card would get past half a group of people who don't like broken cards.
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Has Rob even approved of this? Just wondering because I would stink to plan all of this and not have it happen.
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That will be part of the purpose of the committee. It's unlikely that a broken card would get past half a group of people who don't like broken cards.
Joseph, Thaddeus, etc.
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We will not make mistakes like majorly changing a card and then not testing it at all.
Joseph was known to be broken, and the consensus was "he's one of the best-known characters in the Bible, let's leave him OP." We will also not be doing that.
Joseph is somewhat less broken now that I've stumbled upon a counter where previously I thought there were none.
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Has Rob even approved of this? Just wondering because I would stink to plan all of this and not have it happen.
I'm not too optimistic about getting it printed. Making an expansion would be fun though.
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This won't get printed. It's just people who already make cards getting together to make more cards.
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And then have them available on RTS for a whole new infusion of awesome!
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I would like to allow Lambo to bring in anyone to work on the art with him under his discretion. That includes Daniel, Eric and anyone else he deems appropriate. I am sorry Daniel, since you said you just wanted to help with the art I didn't think you would want to be involved with the restriction, ruling, etc. process.
This set is going to be fun. :)